Freshmaker
I am Korean.
If it's not in the game, I'm not gonna bother.
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Destiny 2 once again doesn't have matchmaking for non-Raid content
- Thread starter Alo0oy
- Start date
If it's not in the game, I'm not gonna bother.
Your loss.
That's nice for you. I just want to play the game without having to spend time outside of the game finding two other Australians on PS4 to do a nightfall with though. Not asking for your community thread to disband and stop having your fun. Just letting the people who don't want that to actually be able to have fun too.
I believe a compromise exists.
Players that have successfully completed these strikes/raids at least once should have access to a matchmaking service in that there it is assumed knowledge is understood and learned and coordination comes a bit more naturally and dynamically. FFXIV(for example) offers filters for its matchmaking/party finder for players to split potential players into those looking to grind vs those looking to experience.
In the case of Destiny, it does reach a certain point quick(at least in D1) where this strict gating only really serves to hinder the hardcore player base. Understandable that this early into the release, most players are still experiencing these runs for the first time, but beyond that initial learning push I see no reason to acquiesce something to the dedicated fans.
Players that have successfully completed these strikes/raids at least once should have access to a matchmaking service in that there it is assumed knowledge is understood and learned and coordination comes a bit more naturally and dynamically. FFXIV(for example) offers filters for its matchmaking/party finder for players to split potential players into those looking to grind vs those looking to experience.
In the case of Destiny, it does reach a certain point quick(at least in D1) where this strict gating only really serves to hinder the hardcore player base. Understandable that this early into the release, most players are still experiencing these runs for the first time, but beyond that initial learning push I see no reason to acquiesce something to the dedicated fans.
Papo Swing
Member
If a person can come to GAF and post they can post in LFG and get a better team and experience than any matchmaking would if they only stopped being scared and did something for themselves for 5 seconds. Like you say it is not Bungie's job to open up the end game content for everyone.
Also I can take a shot at explaining why guided games are better: They let you choose the type of matchmake you want. Normal matchmaking would just set you up with someone. Guided games make it so you can specifically pic if you want to be guided or are there to help out. That when thinking about how raids work in Destiny takes away the whole match making being bad for it issue.
This has nothing to do with this issue at hand at all.
And it's actually good when you bother to spend at least 10 seconds to make the experience of the game you enjoy better.
Going to an LFG site,thread,group will always be better than matchmaking in any game.
Like you are stopping the gaming experience to come post in GAF? Man developers suck not putting boards in their own games to discuss it. It is a similar attitude. It is actually good when you stop your gaming experiences to go toa spot that makes that gaming experience even better. GAF definitely does it for discussion right?
A very stupid and conceited attitude. It takes you like 10 seconds to make a post depending on where. I would say it takes 5 seconds in GAF, but you decide that you are over it. You will post how you are above that and that if you need to do extra work it is not for you, but you've done more work that you'd ever would on an LFG posting here.
What if you join a group and you determine that 30 minutes in and it's shit? Are you going to stick with it for 5-7+ hours trying to brute force it? If you leave, can you imagine what the experience is like for the remaining 5 players? I mean.... ultimately, at the end of the day, wouldn't you feel like you wasted X amount of time?
And yet off the top of my head I KNOW two Australians from DGAF that play Destiny on PS4 and are active on Discord and the thread.
Your loss man, Ruthless and Kurt are both super freaking cool.
See?
Guided games exists, and will be in full effect soon. Its basically best-case-scenario matchmaking if you play solo, so this is hardly a valid complaint.
And then there's Trials. Philosophically, what is the point in wanting to engage in specifically designed hypercompetitive team-based multiplayer if you aren't going to put in the tiny amount of effort to get a team together?
The only valid complaint is "I'm into pvp but dont have any friends," though in this case I think Bungie wants you to find a clan and go from there. Hence Guided Games introducing you to a clan.
And then there's Trials. Philosophically, what is the point in wanting to engage in specifically designed hypercompetitive team-based multiplayer if you aren't going to put in the tiny amount of effort to get a team together?
The only valid complaint is "I'm into pvp but dont have any friends," though in this case I think Bungie wants you to find a clan and go from there. Hence Guided Games introducing you to a clan.
Niceguydan8
Member
Probably because Destiny rips pretty much every aspect of their end game (including their raid structure) from those types of games that have arguably greater encompassing solutions for this issue that, frankly, shouldn't have existed in the first place.
I don't play WoW, but all FFXIV content can be attempted by a group of random people. They just have better tools to allow that (markers to be placed on the ground, much more in depth filtering for party searching, etc). They are given the tools to do all of this within the game. Do you want to snore through an easy normal mode raid with randoms? Go ahead. Want to bash your head with 7 other randoms in the hardest content in the game, go ahead.
I just don't see the downside in ripping that from MMOs as well. It doesn't do anything to take away from those that like to group up and only gives those that don't have the desire to group up an opportunity to at least attempt the hard content. I think Guided Games is a neat idea, but I don't think it's the full solution, especially as this content ages and gets easier, which always happens.
This is a weird omission. And I never understand the arguments against it. Someone who thinks it would result in a bad experience could just...not use it. They'd continue playing with friends or using outside tools to form groups and nothing would change.
It's a bit jarring coming from WoW where you can find a group for anything within the game, though maybe everyone having a keyboard there makes communication easier and thus makes it more feasible to include an in-game group finder. I could see that being a concern, but again, anyone who didn't like it could simply ignore the feature.
Edit: this is sort of reminding me of the debate around Bungie's lack of matchmaking in Halo. I can't even remember what the game mode was called now...it was like the horde mode basically in I think ODST and they didn't want to include matchmaking. Seems they just don't believe in the concept.
It's a bit jarring coming from WoW where you can find a group for anything within the game, though maybe everyone having a keyboard there makes communication easier and thus makes it more feasible to include an in-game group finder. I could see that being a concern, but again, anyone who didn't like it could simply ignore the feature.
Edit: this is sort of reminding me of the debate around Bungie's lack of matchmaking in Halo. I can't even remember what the game mode was called now...it was like the horde mode basically in I think ODST and they didn't want to include matchmaking. Seems they just don't believe in the concept.
And we who have friends lists populated with people all over the world that we met from GAF will never understand the logic of making a post to complain about it over making a simple, possibly pride-swallowing post to, you know, engage with the community.
I've played MMO's for a long time now. Bad groups happen. Doesn't really bother me.
I'm sure they are very cool, but I'd have to look outside of Destiny 2 to organise a group to play with them at whatever random time I happen to be playing.
Gonna use the Vault of Glass as an example and going to use FFXIV as an example.
FFXIV is a standard MMO with the trinity roles. Tank, DPS, and healer. For all intents and purposes, the game was designed for dungeons and raid with players having an already pre-determined role in mind and they cannot deviate from that role. This is a fact. Destiny's encounters are not like that Strikes are no so mechanically intensive that they require role designation. Vault of Glass does. Whether that's the relic runner, the oracle killer, people who teleport, etc w/e. The point is that people are required to fulfill specific roles. Players can queue into raids with specific roles sure, but what if the person who queued into that role sucks in reality and the raid is a colossal failure. Let's take it a step further, what if the raids have multiple encounters and there are different role combinations. Then matchmaking has to be more granular. The more granular, the harder it is to find a match. There are too many non-fixed variables and too many deviations in Destiny that makes matchmaking unequivocal to normal MMOs.
Listen I, and I think everyone in DGAF, agrees with you that there should be in game tools to better assemble fireteams. That's something I wanted in D1, like a built in LFG feature in game. Xbox has one built into the dash. Not sure about Playstation. On PC I assume (I hope) it will let you text chat in the tower.
I think giving players an option for a standard matchmaking experience for raids is setting up everyone that does it for failure. Especially with this raid. I can't fathom a regular MM experience. At least with guided games you get people that have a strategy and can work with you. At least with guided games they MM you into a fireteam first to establish communication. I assume even with guided games, someone with no mic will be tossed to the curb as they should.
Maybe at a certain point they can loosen the parameters for the raid. But certain encounters, even in D1, required communication. You were a huge hinderance without it.
They said they want more people to experience raids. Guided games are the perfect solution. Hell its even more matchmaking than a built in LFG feature.
CraigerGamer
Member
But those tools are in place at the expense of the community. I think Bungie is taking Activision/Blizzard's experience and making sure they don't make the same mistakes. Current WoW has so many questions, dungeons, and raids that you don't need a community to fulfil a lack of content. Destiny 2 doesn't have this luxury and Bungie is banking that replayability, in the end, will lean heavily on the relationships established through Group and Clans.
Destiny is about shooting aliens with friends. Otherwise it's a 30 hour experience no different than any other FPS.
NullPointer
Member
Why is it OK for every other competitive team based mode in every other game to have matchmaking, but not Destiny?
Because this game mode is specifically for pre-made teams? There is a competitive mode for match making that is much more casual (hence the inclusion of matchmaking). These are the same reasons the prestige nightfall and raid will not be including guided games. Bungie expects mandatory communication and pre-made teams for those modes...
Why gate the Spire and a trophy behind it?
and if people are just 'matchmaking' on forums like this with people they otherwise don't know, how is that ANY different whatsoever? It's not.
Exactly. Bungie needs to have matchmaking for all modes, regardless of if things like Discord exist.
Destiny's matchmaking is below the standard vs other multiplayer online games.
Rizzi, are you on your computer as you respond to these posts? Or your phone. Since I chat on Discord on my phone I can literally @ruthless right now and say "RUFFLES (nickname) do you want to do the NF in 30 minutes?"
You live in the same time zone I assume. I'm just saying if you played a NF with Ruthless you'd be like "Dude was dang cool! He's like a super sherpa! (He is)"
There's a reason for my first NF I messaged him to play it WITH HIM. I live in NJ. 14 hours difference. My son and I did it with him first try.
You can have randoms, or Ruffles.
(sigh sigh sigh)
Seijuro
Member
Well that's just it. People shouldn't need to go to a 3rd party's forum to find someone to play with when every other game in the genre has these basic functionalities.
People have other stuff to do and when I sit down to play a game, I want to play a game, not sit in front of my computer hoping someone will answer my party request while I wait around twiddling my thumbs.
This denial of basic functionality on Bungie's part is especially frustrating since every other shooter has matachmaking for every coop activity.
Even FF14, a MMO that is by nature far more complex than destiny has matchmaking for EVERY piece of content.
NullPointer
Member
Its worse, because Bungie can automatically match people with good connections, proximity, skill, etc, in seconds.
Just seems very odd to me considering how many hardcore competitive games do have matchmaking. Its their choice to make of course.
you'll have to talk to bungie about the trials trophy.
bare minimum matchmaking is much different from lfging.
And if they says no then what? You sit and what for them to come available
Didn't even think about it like that. In fact, that's probably the reason they don't allow it. Legit teams would coast their way to the Lighthouse week in and week out.
Good thing I don't suck cuz holy shit this would be a nightmare.
I guess a post like this just sort of furthers my confusion. Someone such as yourself with a list of people to play with wouldn't have to deal with matchmaking. Its inclusion wouldn't affect you.
Also not sure I follow on the pride thing. I'm lucky in that I have a few friends / co-workers that I've been playing with, and if I didn't have that I wouldn't mind going into the GAF thread to join up with people, but I understand why others might not want to or wouldn't feel comfortable. It doesn't really strike me as a "pride" thing.
edit: I should mention that I can see why Bungie wouldn't want matchmaking for everything. Even a PC MMO like WoW doesn't enable that for difficult content. But it does have decent LFG tools in-game for every level of content.
Seth Enosh
Member
On 9/26 you'll be able to use guided games to queue up and be matchmade into a NF.
No need to go on a forum or chat. It's a feature of the game currently being beta tested right now.
No you hit up many of the hundreds of other people on gaf playing the game or use guided games if you so please (which is a more involved form of matchmakingthere, you get your compromise and bungie catering to a vocal minority).
wesleyshark
Banned
Isn't that what's already happening with players carrying teams to flawless?
BUT YOU'RE ON IT RIGHT NOW (smashes head against wall)
I did! I would rather do the Nightfall with Ruthless than do it with randoms. He KNOWS the encounter. He was like "Guys, move with me now, we're going up the ramp, get behind this box and get ready to pop your super. You ready? Let's go!"
It's like you guys are looking for friends to play with and you're in probably the best Destiny community on the exact same forum you're posting on, but you hold your ears and shut your eyes and close your mouth and refuse to meet people. egads
(gives up)
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Less reason to waste time on the game. Not much a loss if Bungie wants to treat people this way.
Niceguydan8
Member
I think you are completely missing the point. The point isn't about people that just browse gaf or reddit in their free time. The point, generally, is about people that don't necessarily want to use a third party to match up with players when an in-game matchmaking system could functionally do the exact same thing in terms of attempting/clearing content.
CraigerGamer
Member
I am a CSGO addict. The game is the 2nd greatest game ever created IMO (best being Fallout New Vegas of course). I MM every night for about 2-3 games and rarely ever do I get a team that is good. CSGO is team orientated and yet the struggle is so real. Valve has decided that they don't care very much about the user experience and focus more on balance and skins. So, while CSGO has a competitive-based option, it doesn't mean the experience is any good. Is this what you want for Destiny?
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Yeah, but a kludge is much more leet.
The difference is bungie put in a solution for it that is essentially matchmaking with a "Don't be a dick and have a mic" splash screen "agreement"
But people don't think thats good enough and would rather spend 30 minutes trying to get into a communicating group with standard MM
Basically, the people complaining that guided games aren't a good solution essentially say we want the option to have a really horrible time with standard MM
EDIT: But yes, trials should have guided games.
Theyve implemented tools for a more involved form of match making for these modes (except hard raid and nightfall and trials) So no youre not stuck in time just being ignorant?
Treat people what way? Please see above.
yea, I don't see how mm in either mode affect the people that want to be competetive, they can still use apps or whatever for teams while the rest of us can play something like trials... Heck that is how must games operate, and it even works in the crucibles competitive mode. (I just want to be able to play)
NullPointer
Member
Yes, use a forum, wait for responses and PMs, then shift over to the console and send/accept friend requests, set up a party (including party wrangling if people are already in parties) and then hopefully jump into a match with a full team if everybody stuck around throughout.
Or... hit the matchmaking button in-game and get quick responses that are also better matches for technical/skill/gear/any-other-game-metric.
What I want is not to waste time wrangling cats when there is an option to auto-wrangle them. And this wouldn't stop you from putting together a team of regulars as you normally do.
Dan I completely get the point.
People want to click a button, spin the wheel, and hope they get a great solid, matchmade fireteam that is capable of doing any content in Destiny at the exact time of their choosing.
The issue is, Bungie has said that they want a community. To meet people and make friends.
You can tell those of us from DGAF. We're here saying:
"Hey guys there are a boatload of us that are cool, that know the encounters, that are friendly, that like playing, that are helpful, and are more likely to provide an experience that would leave you like "Heck man that was pretty rad. I would love to play with JUST these people because the alternative is frankly, kinda iffy."
We just fail to get how people will make all these passive aggressive posts about how the game doesn't have this and they can't make friends or don't have any and can't meet any... But yet they're literally like a forum click away from a full friends list.
That's all man.
Hmmm seems like tales from your ass?
Theoretically, if someone was playing Destiny, and NOT a member of NeoGAF or really any online forum, and wanted to just match with random people so they can see/attempt content, what are you telling them?
Because these people exist. In plentiful numbers. People who don't join/use forums, and yet play videogames.
Every other video game has some form or method to create groups from randoms without ever having to actually leave the game. And honestly nowadays they would be lambasted if you couldn't. This is effectively a solved problem.
Why does Destiny get a free pass when it doesn't bother?
Know what's great for meeting random new people and making new friends? An option that matches you with random people who also have an interest in doing the same piece of content you're doing.
Honestly, if you are the type of player who cares about trophies you've almost certainly done something crazier than finding three other people to join your multiplayer team and winning one match.
Theres a thread right now about Vanilla WoW, and how cool it used to be. Matchmaking and convenience poisoned WoWs community. There is a strong argument to be made for how putting in a "just push this button" option would attract lazy players, lower the percieved player investment, and poison the sense of team building and comradery that even the tiniest bit of effort rewards.
Guided games is effectively what you are looking for, anyway, so I really dont get what you think youre missing out on.
NullPointer
Member
That's how matchmaking works. I learned that from Bungie.
The point about the metrics is that Bungie could use data they have ready access to in order to match players. That could be player skill. That could be connection quality. That could be gear score. It could be anything. Either way it could utilize data that isn't readily available for people finding other players through out-of-band means.
Seth Enosh
Member
Yeah and it's weird because bungie has added matchmaking for people who want to solo queue for raids and nightfalls. It's just called guided games and is launching next week from beta.
This entire thread seems based on a false premise.