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[piratethingy]

I maintain my policy of cautious optimism. I still haven't seen anything that makes me think "Borderlands from people who know how to make shooting feel good" can't work.

 

[Twilight Gap]

this. why didnt they make a vidoc that explains all this? activisions marketing team seems to think that destiny is going to sell itself.

Well they've made several that already outlined the basics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwOUi4JDC4o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIp7vZuYzoA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1OjUWw43co

Those were honestly the last time I was excited about the game, because after that their marketing spun into an infinite loop of repeating themselves.

Again, I'm not trying to rain on the parade. This is the most I've followed or talked about the game since last E3, yet I don't feel like Luke mentioned anything I wasn't already at least passingly aware of.

If a player doesn't understand what Destiny is from official footage, that's on Bungie. However, if they have no idea what it is at all, there's at least a year's worth of articles to read where they say exactly that. To reiterate once more, the issue that we're encountering is the disconnect between what they say and what they show. They wouldn't need to say anything about the game if the videos accomplished both.

I just don't want to buy into things that sound amazing on paper and then play completely different in the game.

Appreciate the two posts below me.

 

[Trickster]

Is Luke's post the first solid gameplay details we've had about this game launching in 3 months?

No. What Luke wrote is something that we have known for a pretty good amount of time. You and many other just didn't know about it because you haven't read the interviews that Bungie have given.

Yes, Bungie have done a poor job of explaining the game through the footage of the game that they have released. That there is no disputing. However they have actually done a good job of explaining what the game is about and the general things there is to do in the game.

 

[harrypmgaga]

Is Luke's post the first solid gameplay details we've had about this game launching in 3 months?

Uh, no. This stuff's been out there for a while.

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

There's a lot of confusion here, and we haven't done the best job ever of explaining the game or its structure.

I'm Luke, and I'm one of the lead designers on Destiny.

First, Destiny is structured into Activities.

We've attempted to build a suite of activities that can suit a variety of moods (I want something challenging! I want to chill out with my friends! I want to see where the story goes next! I want to shoot other players!, I want the game to be a cruel dominatrix! et cetera)

These activities come in a bunch of flavors:

• Story missions - soloable activities (you can still play them in groups of up to 3!), often with ties to the main story arc of Destiny (the campaign). These activities appear at various Levels (numerical, relative to the player) and choosing a higher level (relative to you) means you're opting in for some additional challenge.
• Strikes - 3 player activities, with bosses and loot at the end. Their goal is a highly replayable activity that will - at higher levels - lead you into the loot game.
• Explore - cruise around the surface of a planet in Fireteams of up to 3, taking odd jobs and tasks for the City. You can find minerals and resources out in the world that you'll have some use for as you find weapons in Destiny that you want to stick with. This is a lower intensity activity
• Raids - 6 player, cooperative required, communication required gameplay. High challenge. We haven't talked much about this yet and I'm not going start that conversation here on NeoGAF
• Multiplayer This is for the "shoot other players" mood.

Now, the second part is how the world has been built.

We've structured Destiny's world to have places where you will probably intersect with other players, and places where you won't. We're not going to have players drop into the climax of a mission, but the common landing zones for a given planet? That seems like a great place to see other players running amok in the world.

EDIT: Regardless of what activity you're playing (PVP aside), you'll see players on their own activities, i.e., players beginning a Strike might see a guy collecting Relic Iron on Mars, and a Public Event begins and suddenly everyone is distracted to take down a key Cabal target for a chance at powerful gear and materials to upgrade your best weapons and armor.

A bunch of folks are playing the Alpha now and we're already seeing all kinds of opportunities for places to improve Destiny. I have no doubt that in the Public Beta, we will learn even more from your feedback and experiences.

I'm not going to get into any of the recurring activities or gearing or class stuff today, but I imagine we'll start to try and explain stuff more soon.

Thank you very much for dropping in and giving us some info. Much appreciated!

Very curious what the max amount of players in an "area will be...

 

[jesu]

I like what I've just read in LukeSmith's post.
Hypes levels rising even more than they were!

 

[Wolves Evolve]

I guess it's good that Luke popped in here to clarify how the footage might skew perceptions but

we haven't done the best job ever of explaining the game or its structure.

I think people shouldn't assume that. The game marketing is doing fine, if confused. Everything seems to be showing what it needs to show and the game's image is of a semi-serious big scale sci-fi FPS with lots of RPG mechanics. It's fine. Kinda. It's just part of a bigger problem.

The problem is that the way both the game and, frankly, explanations like this just sort of muddy the question. The game is trying new things but then the staff explains them at a high level of abstraction. So does the game. Why? This for example:

We've attempted to build a suite of activities that can suit a variety of moods (I want something challenging! I want to chill out with my friends! I want to see where the story goes next! I want to shoot other players!, I want the game to be a cruel dominatrix! et cetera)

A "suite of activities"? This is obviously internal language. It doesn't help. What people want to know is:

1) how different is the format to what we know? What does the main menu let us choose from?
2) The post above splits the game into story / strikes / explore / raids / multiplayer. How does that translate into what I do? Is there an open world experience where I get multiple markers and missions - and some of those have other players running around if I'm online? Because that's what it sounds like. But... I can't be sure. And I'm into the game! I'm paying attention! I'm going to pre-order. I'm the target audience. Why am I confused?
3) How do the different areas intersect - what does the map look like and how big are the different areas - or are the planets separate mini-open worlds? Can I stay on the moon for 40 hours?
4) Comparisons are drawn to Skyrim, Borderlands and Halo by fans. Embrace them or not, but they are there. I feel like Borderlands had a tough sell at first and just went all out with videos and simple web pages by this point. Halo was a story driven FPS with a separate multi-player game each time. It REALLY can be that simple with Destiny. There's no reason why not.

None of this is fatal. It's really minor. My concern is that the game doesn't know what it wants to be. These leaked videos aren't lacking anything - AI is actually fine for what it is. They leap out of stuff and then run around. Fine. But the triggering of events, all by proximity, and then a list of current missions is seen now and then.. that's what I'm worried about now.

Its precisely this 'suite of activities' approach that sounds dull, and less high concept than the rest of the game. There's no strong clarity about the core game loops yet. Strikes are highly replayable - okay - does that mean they're like the Rifts in Diablo III: Reaper of Souls? Do I do them for the chance of better equipment and weapons? Can I melt down and craft stuff?

I think what I am looking for next is a more confident, high-concept reveal or video that shows some multiplayer, and how the mixed-player singleplayer works in practice. The first videos that showed that LITERALLY drop you into a rusty car graveyard and have someone wave at you. I mean, fuck.

If I get distracted from a solo mission by a raid, I need some context - what's the map size like? Can I go back to the solo mission?

A lot of my questions I know the answer to because I'm following the game but even if I know the answer, the fact remains I had a question. I think a lot of people are wondering how this game sits between other action games, even if they are going to play it. It will be totally massive and I'm excited. But ... 'a suite of activities' is precisely the wrong response for me. Name the area. Name what's missing. Name what's changed. Name. Show. Maps. Menus. Guns. In a context. Then, and only then, can the weird magic of a mixed-player shooter, of happening across events and other people, genuinely make sense.

 

[disastermouse]

I guess it's good that Luke popped in here to clarify how the footage might skew perceptions but



I think people shouldn't assume that. The game marketing is doing fine, if confused. Everything seems to be showing what it needs to show and the game's image is of a semi-serious big scale sci-fi FPS with lots of RPG mechanics. It's fine. Kinda. It's just part of a bigger problem.

The problem is that the way both the game and, frankly, explanations like this just sort of muddy the question. The game is trying new things but then the staff explains them at a high level of abstraction. So does the game. Why? This for example:



A "suite of activities"? This is obviously internal language. It doesn't help. What people want to know is:

1) how different is the format to what we know? What does the main menu let us choose from?
2) The post above splits the game into story / strikes / explore / raids / multiplayer. How does that translate into what I do? Is there an open world experience where I get multiple markers and missions - and some of those have other players running around if I'm online? Because that's what it sounds like. But... I can't be sure. And I'm into the game! I'm paying attention! I'm going to pre-order. I'm the target audience. Why am I confused?
3) How do the different areas intersect - what does the map look like and how big are the different areas - or are the planets separate mini-open worlds? Can I stay on the moon for 40 hours?
4) Comparisons are drawn to Skyrim, Borderlands and Halo by fans. Embrace them or not, but they are there. I feel like Borderlands had a tough sell at first and just went all out with videos and simple web pages by this point. Halo was a story driven FPS with a separate multi-player game each time. It REALLY can be that simple with Destiny. There's no reason why not.

None of this is fatal. It's really minor. My concern is that the game doesn't know what it wants to be. These leaked videos aren't lacking anything - AI is actually fine for what it is. They leap out of stuff and then run around. Fine. But the triggering of events, all by proximity, and then a list of current missions is seen now and then.. that's what I'm worried about now.

Its precisely this 'suite of activities' approach that sounds dull, and less high concept than the rest of the game. There's no strong clarity about the core game loops yet. Strikes are highly replayable - okay - does that mean they're like the Rifts in Diablo III: Reaper of Souls? Do I do them for the chance of better equipment and weapons? Can I melt down and craft stuff?

I think what I am looking for next is a more confident, high-concept reveal or video that shows some multiplayer, and how the mixed-player singleplayer works in practice. The first videos that showed that LITERALLY drop you into a rusty car graveyard and have someone wave at you. I mean, fuck.

If I get distracted from a solo mission by a raid, I need some context - what's the map size like? Can I go back to the solo mission?

A lot of my questions I know the answer to because I'm following the game but even if I know the answer, the fact remains I had a question. I think a lot of people are wondering how this game sits between other action games, even if they are going to play it. It will be totally massive and I'm excited. But ... 'a suite of activities' is precisely the wrong response for me. Name the area. Name what's missing. Name what's changed. Name. Show. Maps. Menus. Guns. In a context. Then, and only then, can the weird magic of a mixed-player shooter, of happening across events and other people, genuinely make sense.

Wow! Awesome post, man. And you're right - Bungie's just isn't connecting the dots with their marketing yet.

 

[Twilight Gap]

A "suite of activities"? This is obviously internal language. It doesn't help.

He went on to list that "suite of activities" right afterwards. It's really just another way of saying game modes/gametypes from what I gathered.

I'd like to see them detail and show these things as well, as I can only manifest a vague version in my head based on the context. Hopefully we see some of this today.

edit for correction below

 

[SnakeEyes]

GAF will not destroy my hype for Destiny! Bring on E3

I'm with you on this - Fuck GAF.

 

[Tractopoulpe]

Still hyped. Eh, to be honest, I'm even more hyped than before.

 

[harrypmgaga]

A "suite of activities"? This is obviously internal language. It doesn't help. What people want to know is:

1) how different is the format to what we know? What does the main menu let us choose from?
2) The post above splits the game into story / strikes / explore / raids / multiplayer. How does that translate into what I do? Is there an open world experience where I get multiple markers and missions - and some of those have other players running around if I'm online? Because that's what it sounds like. But... I can't be sure. And I'm into the game! I'm paying attention! I'm going to pre-order. I'm the target audience. Why am I confused?
3) How do the different areas intersect - what does the map look like and how big are the different areas - or are the planets separate mini-open worlds? Can I stay on the moon for 40 hours?

They've pretty much answered all of this.

1/2 - All the content is in the open world and you can get to each of the activities through the open world or via a menu/map system called "the Director"

3 - Each planet is its own open world. I think the idea is that you'll be on each planet as long as you want doing the content you want.

 

[Kyoufu]

I think some (a lot?) of people here are expecting another Halo or at least a standard FPS with some set pieces which I don't think Destiny is going to be. I've always seen it as a slow, carrot-on-stick open world FPS game with the goal being to collect all the best loot there is.

Comparisons with Borderlands always irks me because the two are nowhere near each other in terms of scope. Environments in BL were pretty small and limited to your group only. Loot in BL was limited to mostly generic weapons without the level of customization on offer in Destiny. Bungie are clearly going for a game you'd want to put hundreds of hours into, especially with high level raids.

I'm not a Bungie/Halo fan but I do play a fair amount of loot-driven games so this game just looks incredible to me.

 

[Trickster]

They've pretty much answered all of this.

1/2 - All the content is in the open world and you can get to each of the activities through the open world or via a menu/map system called "the Director"

3 - Each planet is its own open world. I think the idea is that you'll be on each planet as long as you want doing the content you want.

Just to clarify this. Each planet isn't a single open world. Each planet have multiple zones that are basically huge open zones that players can explore.

 

[Skele7on]

I literally am falling in love with this game, I cannot wait till September!

Although I would hate to be the guy that leaked this, He'll soon be getting a knock on the door and Jason Jones will be standing there, before he can run, he will be dragged out into the street by his hair and executed Bungie style.

 

[harrypmgaga]

Just to clarify this. Each planet isn't a single open world. Each planet have multiple zones that are basically huge open zones that players can explore.

According to Bungie you can get from zone to zone openly, though?

 

[broony]

According to Bungie you can get from zone to zone openly, though?

Each planet has multiple destinations, like old Russia on earth and the hellmouth on the moon. Each if these destinations has multiple areas within it. Like in old Russia you have:

Blind Steppes
Delta South
Devil's Lair
The Divide
Dry Sea
Forgotten Shore
Gateway
Graveyard
King's Watch
Moth-Yard
Rocket Yard
Sky Watch

These areas within old Russia are all continuous and connected.

However the destinations on each planet may not be connected and you may have to jump in your ship to visit another destination. The haven't been shown, but early on they talked about other earth destinations like Chicago which presumably have their own sub set of connected areas within them.

 

[Trickster]

According to Bungie you can get from zone to zone openly, though?

I don't see how that would be possible when the Earth zones we know about are placed across several continents.

 

[harrypmgaga]

Each planet has multiple destinations, like old Russia on earth and the hellmouth on the moon. Each if these destinations has multiple areas within it. Like in old Russia you have:

Blind Steppes
Delta South
Devil's Lair
The Divide
Dry Sea
Forgotten Shore
Gateway
Graveyard
King's Watch
Moth-Yard
Rocket Yard
Sky Watch

These areas within old Russia are all continuous and connected.

However the destinations on each planet may not be connected and you may have to jump in your ship to visit another destination. The haven't been shown, but early on they talked about other earth destinations like Chicago which presumably have their own sub set of connected areas within them.

Oh wow, I didn't know that at all -- I wonder if that's still in the game. I presume it's not, and Old Russia is all you get when it comes to Earth (not to say they couldn't add to it down the track).

 

[Trickster]

Oh wow, I didn't know that at all -- I wonder if that's still in the game. I presume it's not, and Old Russia is all you get when it comes to Earth (not to say they couldn't add to it down the track).

I would bet my gaf account that there are more places on Earth, than just Old Russia in Destiny. The fact that we haven't seen them doesn't really mean much considering how sparse the footage from the game has been. Bungie have also been pretty clear about them wanting the players to discover stuff for the first time when they actually play the game.

 

[jtenma]

Ok, guys.

You can stop quoting the entirety of Luke's post just to say "thank you".


Wow.

Anywho, I'm still not entirely sold on the idea that is Destiny. E3 is their chance.

 

[harrypmgaga]

I would bet my gaf account that there are more places on Earth, than just Old Russia in Destiny. The fact that we haven't seen them doesn't really mean much considering how sparse the footage from the game has been. Bungie have also been pretty clear about them wanting the players to discover stuff for the first time when they actually play the game.

I totally get that, but given the sheer amount of asset production and work that would need to happen for one open world, let alone a bunch of them is tremendous. I can see 1 per planet, but multiple? Hmm...not convinced.

 

[casmith07]

Now that Luke has chimed in, EVEN MORE HYPE for co-op centric gameplay.

We need more co-op adventures in gaming! Hyped!

 

[casmith07]

So parts of it seem like a Phantasy Star Online-inspired FPS.

I like.

It's going to kind of compare to WarFrame, if the WarFrame devs had a budget, is my guess, haha.

 

[TheDarkLink]

There's a lot of confusion here, and we haven't done the best job ever of explaining the game or its structure.

I'm Luke, and I'm one of the lead designers on Destiny.

First, Destiny is structured into Activities.

We've attempted to build a suite of activities that can suit a variety of moods (I want something challenging! I want to chill out with my friends! I want to see where the story goes next! I want to shoot other players!, I want the game to be a cruel dominatrix! et cetera)

These activities come in a bunch of flavors:

• Story missions - soloable activities (you can still play them in groups of up to 3!), often with ties to the main story arc of Destiny (the campaign). These activities appear at various Levels (numerical, relative to the player) and choosing a higher level (relative to you) means you're opting in for some additional challenge.
• Strikes - 3 player activities, with bosses and loot at the end. Their goal is a highly replayable activity that will - at higher levels - lead you into the loot game.
• Explore - cruise around the surface of a planet in Fireteams of up to 3, taking odd jobs and tasks for the City. You can find minerals and resources out in the world that you'll have some use for as you find weapons in Destiny that you want to stick with. This is a lower intensity activity
• Raids - 6 player, cooperative required, communication required gameplay. High challenge. We haven't talked much about this yet and I'm not going start that conversation here on NeoGAF
• Multiplayer This is for the "shoot other players" mood.

Now, the second part is how the world has been built.

We've structured Destiny's world to have places where you will probably intersect with other players, and places where you won't. We're not going to have players drop into the climax of a mission, but the common landing zones for a given planet? That seems like a great place to see other players running amok in the world.

EDIT: Regardless of what activity you're playing (PVP aside), you'll see players on their own activities, i.e., players beginning a Strike might see a guy collecting Relic Iron on Mars, and a Public Event begins and suddenly everyone is distracted to take down a key Cabal target for a chance at powerful gear and materials to upgrade your best weapons and armor.

A bunch of folks are playing the Alpha now and we're already seeing all kinds of opportunities for places to improve Destiny. I have no doubt that in the Public Beta, we will learn even more from your feedback and experiences.

I'm not going to get into any of the recurring activities or gearing or class stuff today, but I imagine we'll start to try and explain stuff more soon.

Thanks

 

[kitzkozan]

I haven't been following the game closely, so it's nice to get clear information on what the game will be. What we saw in those videos would be the explore mode where you free roam and complete objectives here and there. I'm wondering if people can play the campaign during the alpha / beta? Destiny would potentially have the biggest campaign ever made for a FPS right? :]

 

[codhand]

Damn, Luke Smith, the legend. Happy tenth year on gaf, you should post more!

 

[broony]

I totally get that, but given the sheer amount of asset production and work that would need to happen for one open world, let alone a bunch of them is tremendous. I can see 1 per planet, but multiple? Hmm...not convinced.

I know what you are saying, but, they have had 500 plus people working on it for quite a long time now.

 

[BruiserBear]

Reading Luke's synopsis, and watching a couple of the older videos again, I feel like I finally have a grasp of the basic structure of this game. I'm certainly more intrigued than I've been before.

 

[DryvBy]

words.

I was confused on the modes. This makes a lot more sense. Thanks!

 

[Skele7on]

I think we have a lot of info to come today.

I do truly believe that from E3 to launch the weekly updates will contain a lot of meat and also they'll be giving us the chance to get hands on and see what it's about.

Lets just all hang tight until the Sony presentation tonight/(tomorrow morning for me)

We have some exciting things to come my fellow Guardians!

 

[broony]

Ok, guys.

You can stop quoting the entirety of Luke's post just to say "thank you".


.

Word.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I think we have a lot of info to come today.

I do truly believe that from E3 to launch the weekly updates will contain a lot of meat and also they'll be giving us the chance to get hands on and see what it's about.

Lets just all hang tight until the Sony presentation tonight/(tomorrow morning for me)

We have some exciting things to come my fellow Guardians!

Doubt it. I know we'll see it at Sony's conference. Does anyone doubt this? But I don't think we'll actually get to see much until the show floors open up tomorrow afternoon. After that then yea I can see a ton of stuff on it coming our way.

 

[harrypmgaga]

I know what you are saying, but, they have had 500 plus people working on it for quite a long time now.

500 is certainly an inflated number (I think the number directly involved in production/dev is about 250~, let's not forget there are a lot of external services that need to be maintained alongside the game), and the design team would obviously be a much smaller team. I've been in dev for a while and you don't just throw people at stuff, that's not how that tends to work.

But hey I could be wrong and they've pulled together a bunch of open worlds in a way that works.

 

[broony]

I think we have a lot of info to come today.

I do truly believe that from E3 to launch the weekly updates will contain a lot of meat and also they'll be giving us the chance to get hands on and see what it's about.

Lets just all hang tight until the Sony presentation tonight/(tomorrow morning for me)

We have some exciting things to come my fellow Guardians!

Think the embargo for all the destiny stuff is 12 PM Tuesday PST.

 

[Principate]

I think some (a lot?) of people here are expecting another Halo or at least a standard FPS with some set pieces which I don't think Destiny is going to be. I've always seen it as a slow, carrot-on-stick open world FPS game with the goal being to collect all the best loot there is.

Comparisons with Borderlands always irks me because the two are nowhere near each other in terms of scope. Environments in BL were pretty small and limited to your group only. Loot in BL was limited to mostly generic weapons without the level of customization on offer in Destiny. Bungie are clearly going for a game you'd want to put hundreds of hours into, especially with high level raids.

I'm not a Bungie/Halo fan but I do play a fair amount of loot-driven games so this game just looks incredible to me.

So an FPS MMO right got you....

It would far easier just saying that.

 

[Jackbooted]

So an FPS MMO right got you....

It would far easier just saying that.

But Bungie doesn't like to use the phrase "MMO", even if it quacks and walks like one...

 

[Jest Chillin]

So an FPS MMO right got you....

It would far easier just saying that.

But Bungie doesn't like to use the phrase "MMO", even if it quacks and walks like one...

"MMO" carries a stigma with a lot of people. Also, Bungie has been pretty clear that the game isn't massively multiplayer. I doubt players will ever be able to gather in zerg-like groups as they can in MMO's. I expect the city is going to be the only place where players can gather in really large numbers.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

One thing I wish they would go into more detail about: I know the loot has different levels of rarity, but it doesn't have randomly generated stats/affixes, correct? If that's the case, I'm wondering how loot will be a driving force for replayability. I want my diablo-style loot!

 

[paolo11]

Noob question. Are the story missions playable offline or this game is always online? I haven't followed the news lately.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Noob question. Are the story missions playable offline or this game is always online? I haven't followed the news lately.

I think solo player story missions still require an online connection, because at its heart it's still a server-based MMO, despite Bungie being apparently scared to use the word.

 

[Skele7on]

Think the embargo for all the destiny stuff is 12 PM Tuesday PST.

ah sweet well 8pm tomorrow I wait for the megaton!

Super stoked to see more stuff!

 

[KeRaSh]

Oh wow, I didn't know that at all -- I wonder if that's still in the game. I presume it's not, and Old Russia is all you get when it comes to Earth (not to say they couldn't add to it down the track).

Wasn't there already a video about Devil's Lair? I'm pretty sure that we will get to see some if not all of those areas in the game.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Noob question. Are the story missions playable offline or this game is always online? I haven't followed the news lately.

Everything requires an online connection. This game is online only.

 

[CloudyTuba]

Thanks!

I hope the game will be enjoyable for people who don't care about fighting non-human opponents (is there an Easy mode?) and just want to roleplay and enjoy the story, because that's how I intend to experience the game.

Agreed. These days I have less time so I tend to play campaigns on easier modes simply so I can get through it and enjoy the story in a reasonably short amount of time. If the story missions increase in difficulty consecutively, will I even be able to finish?

 

[Ooccoo]

Please don't be like Phantasy Star Universe (mission board). Seems like it's not.

 

[Lasty95]

Psyched for sure, but damn Bungie really need to know this one out the park this E3.

Plus - just realised that they'll be going up against Halo 5 this time too!

Squeal!

 

[MDSLKTR]

GAF will not destroy my hype for xxx

Now that is sad

 

[harrypmgaga]

Wasn't there already a video about Devil's Lair? I'm pretty sure that we will get to see some if not all of those areas in the game.

Devils' Lair is IN Old Russia.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Word.

Seriously. Basic posting etiquette people.