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[Twilight Gap]

This is why I quit playing. This and Bungie's incredibly shitty passive-aggressive communication with their player base, and their insistence on patching anything that isn't "as intended", regardless of whether it's actually harmful to the game. Spindle at 310 hurt no one. Sure, nerf the kiosk version to 280. Nerfing all Spindles to 290, regardless of whether it was infused or not? Super shitty. It was just a big "fuck you" on the most exciting day I've ever seen in the Destiny community. Then in the last patch they reduced the amount of weapon parts, motes and strange coins you get, when weapon parts in particular are already on short supply. Just to make you grind more to be able to upgrade your gear.

Meanwhile, Sunbreakers in PVP are hilariously broken and it goes without comment. Nightfall loot is awful and it takes WEEKS for anyone at Bungie to even COMMENT on it, let alone fix the problem.

All other problems aside, it would be nice if it felt like Bungie was actually listening to their players. All it would take is to have them say "we hear you" every now and then.

But yeah it just feels like the people calling the shots right now are incredibly confused about the game they're making. It continues to be pulled in several different directions at once.

Luke Smith mentioned Sunbreakers in a Kotaku podcast a few weeks back. He said they were looking at the data, but they weren't that far ahead of the other classes.

I'm not going to sit here and say I have any kind of authority on the game - that would be daft. But I have a hard time believing that the devs needed to wait for player data to see how bad the Sunbreaker would be, especially when people who played the game at E3 were able to notice it. Somebody needs to be proactive and deal with it before it ships.

This kind of "wait and see" approach is burning me out when the problems end up being that obvious.

 

[TheOddOne]

Old weapons are gone, which is fine with me. For how long did players want to run around with Fatebringer still? Or use Gjallarhorn on bosses. Its boring. I sharded about everything.

But that isn’t really the issue. Well earned loot has become irrelevant, instead of it being just another option within the larger (growing) economy.

For example, Her Benevolence from HoW came out of nowhere to become a top tier sniper. Everybody wanted it and grinded for it. Did it have negative effect on the economy? No, players were still using a wide array of other viable snipers. Nothing fundamentally changed, it was actually diversified. And the same would have happened with the influx of new weapons in The Taken King.

 

[ll_J0N_ll]

Have to agree with OP at this stage. TTK has been excellent up until the IB patch dropped.

It was ironic. I had almost cleared my quests and was thinking IB was just the thing that was needed to jumpstart TTK back into relevance. But they just nerfed it into oblivion.

They have done nothing to address lag or matchmaking after 1 year of complaints.

I've been on Borderlands 2 pretty solidly since the patch dropped.

I'm sure there will be some fixes that bring the economy back into line when hard mode comes out. In the meantime LOOTSPLOSIONS await!

 

[Nabbis]

It's not like PvP was ever balanced or anything but a shitfest. It only takes a day to get the monthly favorite weapon anyway.

The worst part of Destiny is the shittiest FOV i have ever seen. Can't get any worse though.

 

[GluedOnBeard]

OP I've recently decided to quit playing Destiny due to it simply being too time consuming. If I want to be able to do everything in the game and keep on top of it the time invested into it is simply too great.

Iron Banner is a huge grind and you have to get lucky if you don't have a good team of players. Trials will be the same. PvP is a complete and utter mess, admittedly some games it can seem balanced and at it's core the mechanics are amazing. That being said it spawns you next to the other team too often, you can spawn and have a super wipe you out straight away. Super feeding in general is too easy and horribly unbalanced. Weapons aren't balanced either, pulse rifles are now over powered but due to the way Bungie has weapons set it will be almost impossible to find the right balance between them and every other weapon.

PvE I have no issues with besides some quests are basically in there to fill time. Find 50 calcified fragments to get this gun, find all this stuff to get a sword etc etc. MMO games do this too but I think Destiny needs to find better ways to present filler quests and goals that can be achieved alongside normal playing rather than just wasting peoples time to make quests seem longer.

TTK is a huge improvement and Destiny is a great game but I find myself wanting to enjoy other single player and multiplayer games that don't have a "You must play this every other day of the week to keep up" mandate. It simply rewards people who have more time to invest too much.

 

[Seth Enosh]

Agree with all points. I had the Iron Banner pulse drop me to a sliver of health with one burst for a kill time of around 0.80 seconds. Thorn did the exact same thing. Doesn't matter about one weapon "overperforming". It's the fact that instead of changing the kill times, they changed the gun models, only one archetype is literally shallower than the other.

It's only balanced in the sense that there is more variety, but the gameplay hasn't improved beyond that. And again, the sandbox is only part of the problem with the PvP.

The iron banner pulse has a kill time of 0.97 seconds and requires three bursts though...

 

[geordiemp]

TLDR: they nerfed my hand cannons and now the game sucks.

Classic first post, made me laugh.

But got to admit, they really screwed over hand cannon users.

And everyone is still running around sliding with shotguns, which is fine as everyone can do it...

But get a bounty for melee kills, to hell with that. What is melee again ?

 

[lt519]

The game is far better than it was at launch, 9 months ago, 6 months ago, and 3 months ago. They take a couple steps back every now and then but have been continuously making leaps forward. They'll fix the nightfall loot, they'll continue to tweak PvP, and will continue to try and make improvements to match making.

With a test team probably in the low hundreds (if even) they can't possibly for see some of the large scale problems that occur on release.

I'm having way more fun using a wide variety of mediocre weapons than I ever was using Fatebringer and Gjallahorn for every fight. I get killed by 30 different weapons a day in crucible. That used to be 5 weapons. It's better. And playing a Sunbro in PvP for the first time yesterday I can without a doubt say you aren't invincible. Any type of suppression attack will stop them in their tracks. Just because everyone else on your teams is a sunbro , stormcaller, or sunsinger doesn't make the game broken. The best teams I've played on have had nighstalkers and defenders to help counter Sunbros. They should be tuned back but it isn't the end of PvP as we know it.

The game may have taken a step back loot wise for the 1% of the 1%ers after they put in their 100 hours on the expansion, so maybe it's just time to move on and play a different game. But to say they are continually making the game worse is hyperbole to the max.

 

[RichiRamjag]

The only part i disagree is the strange coins one. They nerfed it because they had buffed it too much with 2.0. Whereas before TTK i got the 27 guaranteed weekly coins every week, after TTK i was getting 50+ coins just by playing the game. So i think they nerfed it because of that.

Also pulse rifles flinch is almost as annoying as Thorn DoT. I refuse to use pulse rifles, most boring weapon ever.

That's true, I'm still doing better than most with my coins. I wasn't too happy about the weapon parts nerf, but I grinded it out. Just feels like a job at times. Lol

Not direct at you, but I don't hate the game, I don't want something for nothing either. I put a lot of time into destiny compared to other games and the return just feels so low sometimes.

 

[Twilight Gap]

The iron banner pulse has a kill time of 0.97 seconds and requires three bursts though...

Nirwen's Mercy right? My health was red after one shot. I dunno, maybe I was weak but I'm running max armor and it consistently chewed me up as soon as I saw the player. Felt no different than Thorn to me aside from the fact that the player has to stay still to use it.

 

[XAL]

Luke Smith mentioned Sunbreakers in a Kotaku podcast a few weeks back. He said they were looking at the data, but they weren't that far ahead of the other classes.

I'm not going to sit here and say I have any kind of authority on the game - that would be daft. But I have a hard time believing that the devs needed to wait for player data to see how bad the Sunbreaker would be, especially when people who played the game at E3 were able to notice it. Somebody needs to be proactive and deal with it before it ships.

This kind of "wait and see" approach is burning me out when the problems end up being that obvious.

Or nerfing fusion rifles and trying to buff up Mythoclast at the same time. And then weeks later going "oops we didn't know that blanket nerfing the weapon class that the Mythoclast sits in would affect Mythoclast!". And then doing it like 2 more times. Then TTK comes out and it's completely irrelevant.

I would say that they don't bother playtesting their own game, but it looks like they don't even think through on-paper changes before implementing them.

 

[Pops Maellard]

Most people would disagree in that they've made it worse. In fact, it's been highly reviewed and seen as a massive improvement over year 1 by numerous members of the media and fans, alike.

Yup. I hated Destiny and sold my PS4 partially due to how little I ended up playing the original release. Since the Taken along released, it seems shockingly better. I love all of the improvements Bungie has made.

 

[super-famicom]

I'm with you Zoba. I was super into Destiny when it launched last year, but became very disappointed with it when The Dark Below came out.

 

[mehrmantrout]

The iron banner pulse has a kill time of 0.97 seconds and requires three bursts though...

0.67 and can be 2 bursts if you're specced with low armour


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...TKFIPvASLduPPS4/htmlview?pli=1&sle=true#gid=0

 

[Orthogonal]

This is why I quit playing. This and Bungie's incredibly shitty passive-aggressive communication with their player base, and their insistence on patching anything that isn't "as intended", regardless of whether it's actually harmful to the game. Spindle at 310 hurt no one. Sure, nerf the kiosk version to 280. Nerfing all Spindles to 290, regardless of whether it was infused or not? Super shitty. It was just a big "fuck you" on the most exciting day I've ever seen in the Destiny community. Then in the last patch they reduced the amount of weapon parts, motes and strange coins you get, when weapon parts in particular are already on short supply. Just to make you grind more to be able to upgrade your gear.

Meanwhile, Sunbreakers in PVP are hilariously broken and it goes without comment. Nightfall loot is awful and it takes WEEKS for anyone at Bungie to even COMMENT on it, let alone fix the problem.

All other problems aside, it would be nice if it felt like Bungie was actually listening to their players. All it would take is to have them say "we hear you" every now and then.

But yeah it just feels like the people calling the shots right now are incredibly confused about the game they're making. It continues to be pulled in several different directions at once.

Ugh, that is awful. I had only been casually following the Spindle development since I hadnt gotten a chance to acquire one. Nerfing it like that is ridiculous. There is no harm at all by people having a 310 special weapon. That is 1 slot in 10 and only added 2 overall light to a player using it over a 290 Spindle.

Bungie seems to never let an opportunity to squander goodwill go to waste.

 

[SkylineRKR]

But that isn’t really the issue. Well earned loot has become irrelevant, instead of it being just another option within the larger (growing) economy.

For example, Her Benevolence from HoW came out of nowhere to become a top tier sniper. Everybody wanted it and grinded for it. Did it have negative effect on the economy? No, players were still using a wide array of other viable snipers. Nothing fundamentally changed, it was actually diversified. And the same would have happened with the influx of new weapons in The Taken King.

I agree about the HoW stuff, since thats only been a few months. Making the Elder ciphers (even more) useless, thats just dumb. In fact I never got them, lol. Also the nerfing of Horn and the Necrochasm buff; why? That shit doesn't even work in TTK.

But the VoG weapons, I've used some for nearly a year. I got over it rather quickly. Its a bit of a shame though that the Vex Mythoclast never found its place. At least the ToM is incredibly useful against the hardest bosses.

 

[Insaniac]

I firmly believe that Bungie's insistence on implementing so-called "balanced" PVP is what is ruining Destiny.

They continuously are making balance changes based on PvP feedback which affects PvE. They are restricting their design space by trying to make sure everything they create won't drastically alter PVP and won't be overpowered in PVP.

Look at how badly they nerfed The Last Word, Thorn, and Hand Cannons in general. I feel like all their exotic weapons and armor are created with the thought process of "will this be over powered in PVP?"

It really takes away from the Loot Grind when you know that whatever you get will be a very small variation of what you're used to seeing again and again.

 

[The Hobo]

Given the effort needed to get the Black Spindle, keeping it at 310 would have been fine. It's not a weapon people were just given, they had to earn it.

 

[TheOddOne]

Nirwen's Mercy right? My health was red after one shot. I dunno, maybe I was weak but I'm running max armor and it consistently chewed me up as soon as I saw the player. Felt no different than Thorn to me aside from the fact that the player has to stay still to use it.

I've killed full shield players with two shots of Nirwen's Mercy.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I don't understand the Spindle nerf either. Like Touch of Malice and the Sword its a difficult challenge to overcome. But maybe 290 was intended, as its a rather short quest and the Sleeper, Boolean etc are 290 also.

 

[XAL]

I firmly believe that Bungie's insistence on implementing so-called "balanced" PVP is what is ruining Destiny.

They continuously are making balance changes based on PvP feedback which affects PvE. They are restricting their design space by trying to make sure everything they create won't drastically alter PVP and won't be overpowered in PVP.

Look at how badly they nerfed The Last Word, Thorn, and Hand Cannons in general. I feel like all their exotic weapons and armor are created with the thought process of "will this be over powered in PVP?"

It really takes away from the Loot Grind when you know that whatever you get will be a very small variation of what you're used to seeing again and again.

Honestly they should make each weapon have the same perks, with the element type being the only thing that changes. It makes it really hard to balance the game when you have people rolling all sorts of perk combos that are crazy OP to complete useless shit.

 

[Sai-kun]

Maybe you think it's bad because you spent 40 hours on what probably should only take about 15-20. Lmao, it's even less time if you only count the main story as being from the intro mission to Oryx's initial death.

 

[Zemm]

the pvp is/always has been awful but what can they really do about people blowing through content? Eventually you're going to run out of it. For the price of the game I felt what was there was enough.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Honestly they should make each weapon have the same perks, with the element type being the only thing that changes. It makes it really hard to balance the game when you have people rolling all sorts of perk combos that are crazy OP to complete useless shit.

Or have a PvP mode where the weapon perks/stats don't matter and supers are disabled.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Look at Diablo they build up the roster of items granting unique perks and don't make all the past ones obsolete. Even if they increase the stats the old items get put into the same loot table at new values.

Bungie has to decide whether they want to be WoW or Diablo, not mix and match.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Maybe you think it's bad because you spent 40 hours on what probably should only take about 15-20. Lmao, it's even less time if you only count the main story as being from the intro mission to Oryx's initial death.

Took me two weeks to play from the first mission to the end of the Taken War quests. And aside from the gate on Legendary marks, that was the best Destiny's pre end game content has been.

I've killed full shield players with two shots of Nirwen's Mercy.

Well there ya go.

I don't understand the Spindle nerf either. Like Touch of Malice and the Sword its a difficult challenge to overcome. But maybe 290 was intended, as its a rather short quest and the Sleeper, Boolean etc are 290 also.

The spindle being 310 didn't make sense given how simple the mission was, but it's the principle that makes it disheartening.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Look at Diablo they build up the roster of items granting unique perks and don't make all the past ones obsolete. Even if they increase the stats the old items get put into the same loot table at new values.

Bungie has to decide whether they want to be WoW or Diablo, not mix and match.

Yeah...they should really just copy and paste from Diablo 3. I dunno how they do it but Diablo 3 remains fun even when you get strong legendaries.

 

[Ryuuga]

... supers are disabled.

I've been wanting this PVP mode forever. I thought they would've included this with the Inferno modifier.

 

[E92 M3]

Until PVE and PVP are separated we can forget about it being balanced. Once PVE weapons don't have to worry about PVP, we will get awesome exotics like the original Mythoclast.

 

[XAL]

Or have a PvP mode where the weapon perks/stats don't matter and supers are disabled.

Eh, I think they need to just clearly define every gun so they're the same across the board with stats/perks. Mainly because it makes balancing so much harder and they honestly need to devote their time to balancing and fixing a myriad of other things wrong with the game.

Also adding stat tracking on par with Halo 2 would be nice.

 

[Orthogonal]

I agree about the HoW stuff, since thats only been a few months. Making the Elder ciphers (even more) useless, thats just dumb. In fact I never got them, lol. Also the nerfing of Horn and the Necrochasm buff; why? That shit doesn't even work in TTK.

But the VoG weapons, I've used some for nearly a year. I got over it rather quickly. Its a bit of a shame though that the Vex Mythoclast never found its place. At least the ToM is incredibly useful against the hardest bosses.

All the hubbub about weapon balancing and Exotic specific nerf/buffs was pointless.

Why exactly does Icebreaker and Ghorn need to be nerded now? They are effectively phased out of the game in their OP atate as it is. Necrochasm and Hard Light buffs also pointless, they are sone for. With no way to infuse them to Year 2 levels there was no need for them to spend any time balancing them.

 

[Seth Enosh]

0.67 and can be 2 bursts if you're specced with low armour


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...TKFIPvASLduPPS4/htmlview?pli=1&sle=true#gid=0

Fair enough but almost everyone runs at least 50% armor in the crucible. This archetype of pulse (same as Red Death and Strangers Rifle) used to do 198 damage with 6 bullets and now does only 192. Guardians with max armor have 200 hp, I think min HP for hunters is 185 and for warlocks and Titans is around 190.

Time to kill in Taken King is longer, pulses got almost no buff and the best archetype of pulse (Messenger/Hopscotch) is effectively unavailable now in IB/Trials. That archetype was the only one that could even pretend to compete with Thorn and TLW in House of Wolves balancing, and its not possible to get one except by an extremely lucky drop of a year 2 spare change.25 with counterbalance perk to even out the recoil.

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

This is so weird.

Destiny just supposedly keeps getting worse and worse, and yet everyone keeps playing it.

We should I listen to!

 

[Twilight Gap]

the pvp is/always has been awful but what can they really do about people blowing through content? Eventually you're going to run out of it. For the price of the game I felt what was there was enough.

The PvE problems aren't about blowing through content. It's about replaying time gated content for mediocre rewards.

 

[Dwalls]

I love how the Destiny fanbase always shows up to defend their game the instant someone or something takes a disliking to it. It's okay for people to dislike/actively hate something you're fond of guys!

I played the game religiously at launch and quit during the pre-hype phase of TTK. In fact I quit the day I showed up to raid but my digital copy had a 99 days wait before I could play it on, because I hadn't bought the expansion. My gaming life has improved 20000 fold in all honesty because goddamn that grind was soul sucking. Sometimes I want to go back to play with the awesome dudes I met that are still grinding away but I think better of it. Because regardless of how much I liked some of those dudes, I'm done with playing a game that I can only describe at this point of the digital equivalent of being waterboarded, all the while being egged on by some sort of Pavlovian conditioning scheme. The only thing I'm sad about missing is the first day on that new Raid because those were probably good times, but I wouldn't be suprised if it turned out to be another poorly balanced poop fest with enemies you couldn't kill even if you had the goddamn Tsar Bomba to toss at them.

I do like the fact that they're still trying to "fix" the loot tables on the nightfall considering the fact that they have been largely broken since the first DLC pack they released. Keep hoping dudes, at this rate Bungie will have this fixed by the time the universe dies it's long awaited heat death.

 

[everyday math]

Bungie needs to stop nerfing things. It's ruining the game for me. Stop nerfing and start balancing things. Taking away something is just shoving the problem under the rug.

The weapon parts nerf is mind-boggling stupid.

The raid loot is pushing me towards the edge. I'm sick of getting loot lower then my light lvl and the same loot week after week(3 gauntlets in a row). I need to feel like I'm progressing.

 

[RichiRamjag]

This is so weird.

Destiny just supposedly keeps getting worse and worse, and yet everyone keeps playing it.

We should I listen to!

It's addicting. Carrot on a stick type thing. I ran will of Crota over 100 times the other day determined to get a grasp of malok. Still don't have it. Yet here I still running a strike lol.

 

[Ryuuga]

I love how the Destiny fanbase always shows up to defend their game the instant someone or something takes a disliking to it. It's okay for people to dislike/actively hate something you're fond of guys!

The 'Destiny fanbase' is made up of different people who share their view of the argument.

 

[DarthWalden]

Have to agree with the OP. I played through the two expansions right before TTK went live and I enjoyed it then and I enjoyed TTK story missions but I'm stuck at around Nd 240 light level and got tired of grinding so I just quit.

 

[Unstable]

Or have a PvP mode where the weapon perks/stats don't matter and supers are disabled.

Bungie's biggest PvP addition in the Taken King is a infinite super mode.

Here's how I think the conversation went.
"Hey Carl?"
"Yeah?"
"I hear they want a mode with no supers! Could you add that in?"
"Did you say a mode with unlimited supers? I'll get right on it!"


Dammit Carl.

 

[Tragicomedy]

My personal observation is I hated the game before and really enjoy it now. Waaaaaaaay better.

 

[veloxStrix]

I love how the Destiny fanbase always shows up to defend their game the instant someone or something takes a disliking to it. It's okay for people to dislike/actively hate something you're fond of guys!

You're right! People need to quit defending stuff they like! In fact, people should quit discussing games in general. Opinions should quit existing. This whole website should cease to function.

You're on a forum. Did you ever think what the word "forum" means?

On topic, the weapon parts issue is the only part of the game I've been unsatisfied with. Rift was disappointing as well, but not fundamentally flawed. As a whole, the game has improved with TTK. Weapon nerfs happen, and as a whole the PVP arena is a lot healthier instead of everyone running around with Thorn and Last Word. Last Word is still usable, Pulse Rifles have the edge right now, Scout Rifles and ARs are solid choices for Iron Banner and Regular PVP. Shotguns and Snipers have reached a fairly good balance point.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Bungie's biggest PvP addition in the Taken King is a infinite super mode.

Here's how I think the conversation went.
"Hey Carl?"
"Yeah?"
"I hear they want a mode with no supers! Could you add that in?"
"Did you say a mode with unlimited supers? I'll get right on it!"


Dammit Carl.

It boggles my mind they can add an infinite super mode but can't add a mode with no supers. It's like, it has to be a click of a button? Knowing bungie though, they'd probably break 50 other things by pressing that button.

 

[orborborb]

For me, the launch version succeeded almost completely on its own terms, it was the best Bungie game since the 90s. Of course like most other AAA games all the mediocre cash-in DLC "content" since then has lowered the average quality of the game. But more importantly, DESTINY WAS BAD AT BEING A SPREADSHEET MMO, A GRINDY LOOT GAME, AND A TALKY COMIC BOOK GAME BECAUSE IT WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THOSE THINGS. But those three things are all that some fans in the social media echo chamber could understand so now we have a game that pursues those "goals" with true mediocrity.

 

[Lnkn52]

Bungie's biggest PvP addition in the Taken King is a infinite super mode.

Here's how I think the conversation went.
"Hey Carl?"
"Yeah?"
"I hear they want a mode with no supers! Could you add that in?"
"Did you say a mode with unlimited supers? I'll get right on it!"


Dammit Carl.

Pure genius. But yes and no mention of private matchmaking. I feel like they are holding out on this to make it a big selling point for their next expansion.

 

[Tawpgun]

Game is a fuckton better now than it was at any other point in time

 

[The Hobo]

It boggles my mind they can add an infinite super mode but can't add a mode with no supers. It's like, it has to be a click of a button? Knowing bungie though, they'd probably break 50 other things by pressing that button.

"Patch Notes: Fixed error where jumping was removed alongside Supers. Supers added back in. Jumping will be added back in a few weeks."

Pure genius. But yes and no mention of private matchmaking. I feel like they are holding out on this to make it a big selling point for their next expansion.

I would love to be able to load up my own private match and just take time exploring the maps.

 

[lt519]

People forget to play games for fun. I've never seen people stress so much over a game, go play something else if an unbalanced crucible is ruining your day. Sick of grinding to get to 310, then stop, you don't need to be 310 and will get there pretty easy with the beginning of the Hard Mode raid. NF rewards suck? Wait til they patch it. An unhealthy obsession with maxing out your characters is what ruins the game. Play it for fun.

 

[Shito]

Bungie needs to stop nerfing things. It's ruining the game for me. Stop nerfing and start balancing things. Taking away something is just shoving the problem under the rug.

The weapon parts nerf is mind-boggling stupid.

The raid loot is pushing me towards the edge. I'm sick of getting loot lower then my light lvl and the same loot week after week(3 gauntlets in a row). I need to feel like I'm progressing.

Yep, I'm getting there as well.
Spindle and weapon parts nerfs took some wind out of my sails, and especially their lack of a good explanation for it.
Bungie has no idea how to handle Destiny's community, and they rely way too much on their data instead of listening to the players. Everything has to go exactly how they planned it, and it starts to show in their design: KF is mechanically "locked down" so that every encounter has one way of being completed and that's it, in order to prevent any possible cheese. As such, the raid feels stiff, and really far away from the organic feelings of VoG.
I wouldn't be surprised if they introduced something to forbid the one-gaze tactic in Golgobro in a near patch...

 

[everyday math]

Game is a fuckton better now than it was at any other point in time

Not in terms of endgame. It's pretty grindy. Like worse grind then vanilla. And the pvp is pretty bad.