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[anothertech]

There will always be those that miss the shotty/sniper fest that was d1 pvp, sure.

 

[Frenden]

There will always be those that miss the shotty/sniper fest that was d1 pvp, sure.

D1 wasn't a shottie and sniper fest until we started down the path that birthed D2. My last post talked on that.

 

[igordennis]

Secondaries ran rampant in Destiny when they nerfed primaries at the end of Y1.

Instead of balancing the three exotic hand cannons that dominated the meta in a surgical way, they nuked the whole weapon class from orbit.

Those HCs kept snipers in check (Hawkmoon was great for this) and punished people aping with a shotgun (TLW, anyone?).

The flat footed pulse rifle meta that bloomed, to start Y2 after, was the precursor for the stale, static gunplay in D2's beta-meta.

Without strong primaries to keep the one hit kill weapons in check, all sorts of less successful changes to the sandbox were implemented to try and make shotties and snipers less prominent.

In D2, we're saddled with two primaries, both still weak, and our special weapons have been removed from the game for large swaths of time in both pve and pvp. Instead of buffing primaries, the ttk has gotten even slower. Movement has been slowed down.

All this is a reaction to the first unnecessary wave of nerfs that totally ruined Destiny's PvP at the end of year one.

Strong primaries challenge secondaries. They reward gunskill. They increase the skill gap.

Things have been getting worse for Destiny pvp with every balance patch. Most hardcore PvPers I know would rather play Y1, vanilla balance than any since (even with the warts and bumps--it wasn't perfect). It was fast, it was fun, primaries were powerful and special/power weapons were not a problem.

Yes to all of this. Sad days.

 

[Stripper13]

Secondaries ran rampant in Destiny when they nerfed primaries at the end of Y1.

Instead of balancing the three exotic hand cannons that dominated the meta in a surgical way, they nuked the whole weapon class from orbit.

Those HCs kept snipers in check (Hawkmoon was great for this) and punished people aping with a shotgun (TLW, anyone?).

The flat footed pulse rifle meta that bloomed, to start Y2 after, was the precursor for the stale, static gunplay in D2's beta-meta.

Without strong primaries to keep the one hit kill weapons in check, all sorts of less successful changes to the sandbox were implemented to try and make shotties and snipers less prominent.

In D2, we're saddled with two primaries, both still weak, and our special weapons have been removed from the game for large swaths of time in both pve and pvp. Instead of buffing primaries, the ttk has gotten even slower. Movement has been slowed down.

All this is a reaction to the first unnecessary wave of nerfs that totally ruined Destiny's PvP at the end of year one.

Strong primaries challenge secondaries. They reward gunskill. They increase the skill gap.

Things have been getting worse for Destiny pvp with every balance patch. Most hardcore PvPers I know would rather play Y1, vanilla balance than any since (even with the warts and bumps--it wasn't perfect). It was fast, it was fun, primaries were powerful and special/power weapons were not a problem.

There was no semblance of balance when the exotic hand cannons rained supreme. It just meant you ran one of three hand cannons - that not everyone was lucky enough to grab (2 if you were on Xbox).

Yes they kept secondaries in check, but to the detriment of weapon variety. Sniper rifles and shotguns were fun to use, but a Last Word or Hawkmoon were able to smash people at all ranges - except therr was no ammo restrictions to keep them in check.

However my biggest issue with D1 PvP that made the handcannon meta (and now, Pulse rifle) bullshit, is the strong aim assist. It was ridiculously easy to hit heads with the handcannons back in the day. You say "in a surgical way" but anyone who was half decent in a FPS was a killing machine. I think this actually lowered the skill gap and the game improved overall when Suros, Exotic Handcannons, high ROF autorifles etc were all changed - though I don't think Bungie ever got the balance right.

 

[xplicitone]

Haven't played a lick of Siege sooooooooo nah. Maybe it's just not as common as you like to think

It's extremely common. There is no 1v1 anymore. You simply can't flank teams and try to get the pick. It's 100% about team shooting and there's no evidence you can provide to support otherwise. The majority of actual 1v1s usually ends up with 1 person running away before they die, unless they're bad.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Destiny Alpha - Autos
Destiny Beta - Autos
Destiny Launch - Autos, Fusion Rifles
Destiny TDB - Autos, Hand Cannons, Scouts, Fusion Rifles, Shotguns, Snipers (<------the best)
Destiny 2015 - Hand Cannons, Scouts, Snipers, Shotguns
Destiny HoW - Hand Cannons, Pulse Rifles, Shotguns, Snipers, Grenades
Destiny TTK - Pulse Rifles, Shotguns, Snipers, Grenades (<-----the worst)
Destiny ROI - Hand Cannons, Pulse Rifles, Sidearms, Grenades

 

[geordiemp]

Secondaries ran rampant in Destiny when they nerfed primaries at the end of Y1.

Instead of balancing the three exotic hand cannons that dominated the meta in a surgical way, they nuked the whole weapon class from orbit.

Those HCs kept snipers in check (Hawkmoon was great for this) and punished people aping with a shotgun (TLW, anyone?).

The flat footed pulse rifle meta that bloomed, to start Y2 after, was the precursor for the stale, static gunplay in D2's beta-meta.

Without strong primaries to keep the one hit kill weapons in check, all sorts of less successful changes to the sandbox were implemented to try and make shotties and snipers less prominent.

In D2, we're saddled with two primaries, both still weak, and our special weapons have been removed from the game for large swaths of time in both pve and pvp. Instead of buffing primaries, the ttk has gotten even slower. Movement has been slowed down.

All this is a reaction to the first unnecessary wave of nerfs that totally ruined Destiny's PvP at the end of year one.

Strong primaries challenge secondaries. They reward gunskill. They increase the skill gap.

Things have been getting worse for Destiny pvp with every balance patch. Most hardcore PvPers I know would rather play Y1, vanilla balance than any since (even with the warts and bumps--it wasn't perfect). It was fast, it was fun, primaries were powerful and special/power weapons were not a problem.

The days of thorn, hawkmoon and TLW were indeed the best and countered shotty, snipers fine I agree.

Pea shooter guns and team huddle shoot to kill is boring as fuck

 

[Frenden]

It's extremely common. There is no 1v1 anymore. You simply can't flank teams and try to get the pick. It's 100% about team shooting and there's no evidence you can provide to support otherwise. The majority of actual 1v1s usually ends up with 1 person running away before they die, unless they're bad.

Weak primaries with a long time to kill lead to long 1v1s. These prolonged encounters, if entered by a teammate from either side, essentially guarantee a win for whichever side has more players. In the past, with shorter time to kills, someone probably would have won that one vs. one engagement. PvP feels like a game of war. Whoever has the higher card (more teammates present) wins. Boring. Passive. Little room for individuals to outplay each other.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

That hasn't been my experience at all. The stray kill or two? Sure. Getting completely blown out by a team focusing fire on individual players? That doesn't seem common at all.

...It is.

Oh ok I'm just bad then, my mistake.

As long as you know.

Secondaries ran rampant in Destiny when they nerfed primaries at the end of Y1.

Instead of balancing the three exotic hand cannons that dominated the meta in a surgical way, they nuked the whole weapon class from orbit.

Those HCs kept snipers in check (Hawkmoon was great for this) and punished people aping with a shotgun (TLW, anyone?).

The flat footed pulse rifle meta that bloomed, to start Y2 after, was the precursor for the stale, static gunplay in D2's beta-meta.

Without strong primaries to keep the one hit kill weapons in check, all sorts of less successful changes to the sandbox were implemented to try and make shotties and snipers less prominent.

In D2, we're saddled with two primaries, both still weak, and our special weapons have been removed from the game for large swaths of time in both pve and pvp. Instead of buffing primaries, the ttk has gotten even slower. Movement has been slowed down.

All this is a reaction to the first unnecessary wave of nerfs that totally ruined Destiny's PvP at the end of year one.

Strong primaries challenge secondaries. They reward gunskill. They increase the skill gap.

Things have been getting worse for Destiny pvp with every balance patch. Most hardcore PvPers I know would rather play Y1, vanilla balance than any since (even with the warts and bumps--it wasn't perfect). It was fast, it was fun, primaries were powerful and special/power weapons were not a problem.

Nailed it. The year 1 hand cannon meta seemed to have scarred Bungie for life.

 

[chur]

Secondaries ran rampant in Destiny when they nerfed primaries at the end of Y1.

Instead of balancing the three exotic hand cannons that dominated the meta in a surgical way, they nuked the whole weapon class from orbit.

Those HCs kept snipers in check (Hawkmoon was great for this) and punished people aping with a shotgun (TLW, anyone?).

The flat footed pulse rifle meta that bloomed, to start Y2 after, was the precursor for the stale, static gunplay in D2's beta-meta.

Without strong primaries to keep the one hit kill weapons in check, all sorts of less successful changes to the sandbox were implemented to try and make shotties and snipers less prominent.

In D2, we're saddled with two primaries, both still weak, and our special weapons have been removed from the game for large swaths of time in both pve and pvp. Instead of buffing primaries, the ttk has gotten even slower. Movement has been slowed down.

All this is a reaction to the first unnecessary wave of nerfs that totally ruined Destiny's PvP at the end of year one.

Strong primaries challenge secondaries. They reward gunskill. They increase the skill gap.

Things have been getting worse for Destiny pvp with every balance patch. Most hardcore PvPers I know would rather play Y1, vanilla balance than any since (even with the warts and bumps--it wasn't perfect). It was fast, it was fun, primaries were powerful and special/power weapons were not a problem.

Sí

 

[pmunk]

Strongly disagree, I've had a great time in the beta and feel it is pretty nicely balanced.

I could do with some increase in power accumulation for super, but otherwise this is great.

 

[Kadey]

D1 SFIV to D2 SFV. Make things more simple and easier but at the cost of variety and ultimately fun.

 

[xplicitone]

Weak primaries with a long time to kill lead to long 1v1s. These prolonged encounters, if entered by a teammate from either side, essentially guarantee a win for whichever side has more players. In the past, with shorter time to kills, someone probably would have won that one vs. one engagement. PvP feels like a game of war. Whoever has the higher card (more teammates present) wins. Boring. Passive. Little room for individuals to outplay each other.

D1 SFIV to D2 SFV. Make things more simple and easier but at the cost of variety and ultimately fun.

Indeed to all

;(

 

[Raven117]

Nailed it. The year 1 hand cannon meta seemed to have scarred Bungie for life.

Seems like lots of thing scarred Bungie from Year 1, but its also the things the vets that stuck with the game in the wake of the negative onslaught loved about it.

Elemental primaries (and raid weapons worth chasing)...nerfed

Crazy awesome exotics that fundamentally changed the way you played the game in an awesome way (Icebreaker, G-horn).

And handcannon pvp.

All these things were awesome, yet Bungie nerfed them into the damn ground.

I still love me some Destiny, but damn, Year 1 was awesome.

 

[Siege.exe]

It's extremely common. There is no 1v1 anymore. You simply can't flank teams and try to get the pick. It's 100% about team shooting and there's no evidence you can provide to support otherwise. The majority of actual 1v1s usually ends up with 1 person running away before they die, unless they're bad.

Nearly every player I've been matched up with must be bad, then. I could start recording my matches if you want? I mean, you haven't given me any proof that it's 100% team shooting all the time, but I'm not sitting here demanding you to prove it. It's not going to be a consistent experience for everyone, stop trying to declare as such.

...It is.

Same to you, I guess. That's not at all the experience I've been having with the beta. Maybe you guys have bad luck? It just doesn't seem likely that literally every single match revolves around teams focusing on one person at a time 100% of the time.

 

[Frenden]

Nearly every player I've been matched up with must be bad, then. I could start recording my matches if you want? I mean, you haven't given me any proof that it's 100% team shooting all the time, but I'm not sitting here demanding you to prove it. It's not going to be a consistent experience for everyone, stop trying to declare as such.

The majority of posts in this thread over the last two pages disagree with you. Most of the player names I recognize as folks with 2,000+ hours in Destiny PvP. Including myself.

The game you describe is so foreign to the game that I've played that I can't fathom where or how your opinion was formed. I'm not being mean--I'm genuinely perplexed.

 

[Strider]

Weak primaries with a long time to kill lead to long 1v1s. These prolonged encounters, if entered by a teammate from either side, essentially guarantee a win for whichever side has more players. In the past, with shorter time to kills, someone probably would have won that one vs. one engagement. PvP feels like a game of war. Whoever has the higher card (more teammates present) wins. Boring. Passive. Little room for individuals to outplay each other.

You're posts in this thread are completely accurate...

Couldn't have worded any of it better myself.

 

[Siege.exe]

The majority of posts in this thread over the last two pages disagrees with you. Most of the player names I recognize as folks with 2,000+ hours in Destiny PvP. Including myself.

The game you describe is so foreign to the game that I've played that I can't fathom where or how your opinion was formed. I'm not being mean--I'm genuinely perplexed.

I mean, I don't know what you want from me. I'm not seeing this rampant team shooting you guys are talking about in any of the matches I've played for the past week. You guys played D1 a lot more than me, cool. That doesn't mean that your experiences reflect that of every single other player, so when we have people in here saying that this tactic that I've seen employed maybe twice over the course of the beta period is the only thing any team does 100% of the time every single match, I'm going to point out that it's absolutely not what I've been seeing.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

There was skill based match making in the beta sooo...

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

You think we'll ever see anything as metal and crazy as Pocket Infinity?

 

[Frenden]

You think we'll ever see anything as metal and crazy as Pocket Infinity?

Not a chance in hell.

 

[Siege.exe]

There was skill based match making in the beta sooo...

Hey, I'm totally fine being the best scrub in a pool of the lowest rated scrubs. If it means I'm not getting beasted on every single match, I'll take it.

 

[Twilight Gap]

people who complained about hand cannons should have just beat it. destiny was the only game with sick pistol whipping gameplay, and hand cannons were the only liberating weapons in the game. now we're back to laning with inaccurate burst and spray weapons like every other game, but without the depth of choice or freedom of movement.

d2 at a high competitive level will just be a dumber version of halo.

 

[computers putin']

As someone who used to make the "I want a skill based game" argument all the time, I absolutely despise it now lol. Not every game has to be similarly skill based, plenty of those games exist already, and skill based gameplay isn't inherently better than any other type of gameplay, so I don't know why it gets touted like it is. It sounds like Bungie sacrificed uniqueness for the sake of balance and "skill" and tbh, that makes me a little sad. All the things that made Desitny's pvp so amazing when it came out is now gone apparently, and so is the little interest I had in picking up the sequel.

 

[jviggy43]

people who complained about hand cannons should have just beat it. destiny was the only game with sick pistol whipping gameplay, and hand cannons were the only liberating weapons in the game. now we're back to laning with inaccurate burst and spray weapons like every other game, but without the depth of choice or freedom of movement.

d2 at a high competitive level will just be a dumber version of halo.

Last word was so fucking amazing.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Year one Destiny PvP generally wasn't well regarded at all while it was happening, here and elsewhere. I don't know what game you guys think you played, but it doesn't sound like the unbalanced mess of Destiny PvP. It's never been right which is why they kept altering things until they realized Destiny 2 needed to be clean slated.

We knew PvP would be a shitshow when we figured out everyone could carry a shotty/sniper around all the time. Two primaries lets you use 2 complimentary weapons for different scenarios. I think it will work rather well.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

Hey, I'm totally fine being the best scrub in a pool of the lowest rated scrubs. If it means I'm not getting beasted on every single match, I'll take it.

I'm not saying you're a scrub. Going against players, especially if you win consistently with a 2.0+ efficiency, meant I matched with tryhards and everyone teamshot because it's successful.

 

[Siege.exe]

As someone who doesn't and never has enjoyed using handcannons, I honestly don't think Year 1 Destiny was that bad. Sure it was annoying to get killed by the same three weapons every match, but it was something you could power through if you enjoyed playing the game. Thinking about it, I felt that way every time a weapon pulled away from the other classes and became clearly dominant (fuck shotguns though). It sucks in the moment, but overall it's really not that big of a deal.

 

[Trakan]

What can i say, Trials of Osiris captivated me. Not only that but the real reason any of us dgaffers have over 2k hours or whatever (some gaffers have 6-8k hours) was the social aspect.

It's crazy to me how much time some of you guys put into Y2/Y3 Trials. I couldn't stand it. I suppose the social aspect helped keep you sane.

 

[Karamsoul]

Nearly every player I've been matched up with must be bad, then. I could start recording my matches if you want? I mean, you haven't given me any proof that it's 100% team shooting all the time, but I'm not sitting here demanding you to prove it. It's not going to be a consistent experience for everyone, stop trying to declare as such.



Same to you, I guess. That's not at all the experience I've been having with the beta. Maybe you guys have bad luck? It just doesn't seem likely that literally every single match revolves around teams focusing on one person at a time 100% of the time.

Getting constantly teamshot, especially with unknowns on my side and groups on the other, has been my experience too since the beta started.

 

[Kadey]

Oddly enough, Handcannons are the weapons I enjoy the most in the beta. Everything else felt like I was using a nerf gun. Pun intended.

 

[Frenden]

Year one Destiny PvP generally wasn't well regarded at all while it was happening, here and elsewhere. I don't know what game you guys think you played, but it doesn't sound like the unbalanced mess of Destiny PvP. It's never been right which is why they kept altering things until they realized Destiny 2 needed to be clean slated.

We knew PvP would be a shitshow when we figured out everyone could carry a shotty/sniper around all the time. Two primaries lets you use 2 complimentary weapons for different scenarios. I think it will work rather well.

No one "figured out" that we had secondary weapons magically in year two. Those guns existed in year one. Those weapons weren't "overpowered" until primaries were nerfed.

Once there were no primaries capable of challenging snipers and shotguns, their use sky rocketed.

As I said earlier, year one had issues, but it was still the fastest, most frenetic, most dependent on movement and primary gunskill that Destiny ever was. We complained at the time, as a community in the broad sense, but all changes after just made things worse.

Those early complaints, and the severe reaction to them, is what made the game the slow mess it is now. I made a big, long post about it above.

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

Secondaries ran rampant in Destiny when they nerfed primaries at the end of Y1.

Instead of balancing the three exotic hand cannons that dominated the meta in a surgical way, they nuked the whole weapon class from orbit.

Those HCs kept snipers in check (Hawkmoon was great for this) and punished people aping with a shotgun (TLW, anyone?).

The flat footed pulse rifle meta that bloomed, to start Y2 after, was the precursor for the stale, static gunplay in D2's beta-meta.

Without strong primaries to keep the one hit kill weapons in check, all sorts of less successful changes to the sandbox were implemented to try and make shotties and snipers less prominent.

In D2, we're saddled with two primaries, both still weak, and our special weapons have been removed from the game for large swaths of time in both pve and pvp. Instead of buffing primaries, the ttk has gotten even slower. Movement has been slowed down.

All this is a reaction to the first unnecessary wave of nerfs that totally ruined Destiny's PvP at the end of year one.

Strong primaries challenge secondaries. They reward gunskill. They increase the skill gap.

Things have been getting worse for Destiny pvp with every balance patch. Most hardcore PvPers I know would rather play Y1, vanilla balance than any since (even with the warts and bumps--it wasn't perfect). It was fast, it was fun, primaries were powerful and special/power weapons were not a problem.

Fucking spot on.

At the time, everyone said they were going about it the wrong way and how right we were.

All they had to do was bring the other primaries up a touch but no, Bungle knows best.

 

[Siege.exe]

I'm not saying you're a scrub. Going against players, especially if you win consistently with a 2.0+ efficiency, meant I matched with tryhards and everyone teamshot because it's successful.

Oh no, I'm saying that I'm probably a scrub lol. It sucks that the tryhards are cheesing their way into higher skill brackets though, I'd imagine that there are higher expectations when you reach that level.

Getting constantly teamshot, especially with unknowns on my side and groups on the other, has been my experience too since the beta started.

I don't get matched up with very many premade groups, or at least it seems that way since I don't see people sharing clan tags that often, so maybe that's a big part of why I'm not seeing it.

 

[ethomaz]

Secondaries ran rampant in Destiny when they nerfed primaries at the end of Y1.

Instead of balancing the three exotic hand cannons that dominated the meta in a surgical way, they nuked the whole weapon class from orbit.

Those HCs kept snipers in check (Hawkmoon was great for this) and punished people aping with a shotgun (TLW, anyone?).

The flat footed pulse rifle meta that bloomed, to start Y2 after, was the precursor for the stale, static gunplay in D2's beta-meta.

Without strong primaries to keep the one hit kill weapons in check, all sorts of less successful changes to the sandbox were implemented to try and make shotties and snipers less prominent.

In D2, we're saddled with two primaries, both still weak, and our special weapons have been removed from the game for large swaths of time in both pve and pvp. Instead of buffing primaries, the ttk has gotten even slower. Movement has been slowed down.

All this is a reaction to the first unnecessary wave of nerfs that totally ruined Destiny's PvP at the end of year one.

Strong primaries challenge secondaries. They reward gunskill. They increase the skill gap.

Things have been getting worse for Destiny pvp with every balance patch. Most hardcore PvPers I know would rather play Y1, vanilla balance than any since (even with the warts and bumps--it wasn't perfect). It was fast, it was fun, primaries were powerful and special/power weapons were not a problem.

You're goddamn right.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

This is the most fun I've had with Destiny PvP, about 30 hours clocked in and counting.... have about 500 hours or so clocked into D1, and most of that is Crucible too, so I definitely enjoyed that a bunch also.

 

[gutter_trash]

Secondaries ran rampant in Destiny when they nerfed primaries at the end of Y1.

Instead of balancing the three exotic hand cannons that dominated the meta in a surgical way, they nuked the whole weapon class from orbit.

Those HCs kept snipers in check (Hawkmoon was great for this) and punished people aping with a shotgun (TLW, anyone?).

The flat footed pulse rifle meta that bloomed, to start Y2 after, was the precursor for the stale, static gunplay in D2's beta-meta.

Without strong primaries to keep the one hit kill weapons in check, all sorts of less successful changes to the sandbox were implemented to try and make shotties and snipers less prominent.

In D2, we're saddled with two primaries, both still weak, and our special weapons have been removed from the game for large swaths of time in both pve and pvp. Instead of buffing primaries, the ttk has gotten even slower. Movement has been slowed down.

All this is a reaction to the first unnecessary wave of nerfs that totally ruined Destiny's PvP at the end of year one.

Strong primaries challenge secondaries. They reward gunskill. They increase the skill gap.

Things have been getting worse for Destiny pvp with every balance patch. Most hardcore PvPers I know would rather play Y1, vanilla balance than any since (even with the warts and bumps--it wasn't perfect). It was fast, it was fun, primaries were powerful and special/power weapons were not a problem.

 

[Kadey]

Bring back OG cosmodrome music.

 

[Rizific]

I spent only a few hours with pvp and I didn't like It either. 30fps is a large part of the reason. 30fps in a shooter is especially shitty. Will give it a go this time around on pc, but I'm not holding my breath just based on what I already played with D1.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Bring back OG cosmodrome music.

rip marty

 

[orborborb]

OK I will explain my list a bit, I like many skills to be tested, not just a few, but plenty of randomness and surprising cool shit and complex unbalanced levels. If I'm playing with strangers I want mild tactical team considerations not serious strategy. The worst thing are when these multiplayer modes become beholden to both mindless casual pandering AND serious 'esports' nonsense.

 

[Zyae]

Bungie has never had any idea what they are doing with MP PVP balance

Halo 1 was a Fluke
Halo 2 at launch was awful
Halo 3 at launch was awful
Reach was solid.

 

[Twilight Gap]

here's where they rank

A+
Doom 2016
Destiny 1.0
Crysis 2
Quake 3

A
Halo 4
Call of Duty Advanced Warfare
Halo 5 Arena
Halo Reach
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 3
Unreal 2003/2004
Titanfall 1

B
Crysis 3
Killzone Shadowfall
Team Fortress 2
Killzone 3
Quake 2
Halo 3

C
Call of Duty Black Ops III
Quake Champions
Destiny 2 Beta
Halo 2
Star Wars Battlefront

D
Titanfall 2
Counterstrike
Overwatch
Battlefield 1942
Halo 5 Warzone

list makes more sense when you realize it's ordered by wasted potential

 

[Ramirez]

Bungie has never had any idea what they are doing with MP PVP balance

Halo 1 was a Fluke
Halo 2 at launch was awful
Halo 3 at launch was awful
Reach was solid.

Solid shit clogging up the toilet, sure.

 

[chur]

Team Make BXR a real game combo.

 

[The Driver]

Secondaries ran rampant in Destiny when they nerfed primaries at the end of Y1.

Instead of balancing the three exotic hand cannons that dominated the meta in a surgical way, they nuked the whole weapon class from orbit.

Those HCs kept snipers in check (Hawkmoon was great for this) and punished people aping with a shotgun (TLW, anyone?).

The flat footed pulse rifle meta that bloomed, to start Y2 after, was the precursor for the stale, static gunplay in D2's beta-meta.

Without strong primaries to keep the one hit kill weapons in check, all sorts of less successful changes to the sandbox were implemented to try and make shotties and snipers less prominent.

In D2, we're saddled with two primaries, both still weak, and our special weapons have been removed from the game for large swaths of time in both pve and pvp. Instead of buffing primaries, the ttk has gotten even slower. Movement has been slowed down.

All this is a reaction to the first unnecessary wave of nerfs that totally ruined Destiny's PvP at the end of year one.

Strong primaries challenge secondaries. They reward gunskill. They increase the skill gap.

Things have been getting worse for Destiny pvp with every balance patch. Most hardcore PvPers I know would rather play Y1, vanilla balance than any since (even with the warts and bumps--it wasn't perfect). It was fast, it was fun, primaries were powerful and special/power weapons were not a problem.

people who complained about hand cannons should have just beat it. destiny was the only game with sick pistol whipping gameplay, and hand cannons were the only liberating weapons in the game. now we're back to laning with inaccurate burst and spray weapons like every other game, but without the depth of choice or freedom of movement.

d2 at a high competitive level will just be a dumber version of halo.

REAL RECOGNIZE REAL.

If I wanna play Halo, I'll play fucking Halo. Destiny was the only big game with this kind of solo-God gameplay and they go and destroy it to be like every other shooter on the market. Das cool, I love feeling like I'm wholly dependent on my team to do anything.

Trials is gonna be fun knowing you can checkout of a round after a team has a guy go down since that round is over with this teamshot shit.

 

[Surface of Me]

Solid shit clogging up the toilet, sure.

Seriously, whats a better testament to how little Bungie knows about balance than that Invasion map where the Spartans not only spawn on the high ground, but also have access to precise weapons while the Elites below are stuck with Plasma Rifles and Pistols.

 

[Atilac]

"The devil you know" was an amazing handcannon to use. I miss Destiny when it was awesome.

 

[Frenden]

REAL RECOGNIZE REAL.

If I wanna play Halo, I'll play fucking Halo. Destiny was the only big game with this kind of solo-God gameplay and they go and destroy it to be like every other shooter on the market. Das cool, I love feeling like I'm wholly dependent on my team to do anything.

Trials is gonna be fun knowing you can checkout of a round after a team has a guy go down since that round is over with this teamshot shit.

Yeah. My group went about 48-3 in Countdown. Games, not rounds. Whoever got a pick first won the round most often. Do that a few times, win the game.

Matches boil down to sticking together, playing passive as hell. Running from 1v1s. Teamshooting for victory. Yay? Barf.

Lonewolfing is dead. The skill gap is the width of a gnat's butt hair.

 

[TsuWave]

I welcome the changes to PVP. Less of the BS from the first game and it plays more like Halo.

halo is still a thing, why would you want another game to play more like it?

this is curious to me because usually when i come on gaf i see threads where people complain about "it all being the same" and "lack of creativity" in games these days, so its weird to see people wanting destiny to play more like other games/franchises, especially ones that are still pretty much alive