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[Zenith]

I'm in full favour of the takedowns.

 

[Fireye]

I love the music and visual style. The game looks amazing.

Here's a working link for anyone who hasn't checked it out yet:

Part one and two

Seems like this link is dead too, anyone have a working link?

 

[Xater]

Stealth kills in Deus Ex, Game of the Forever edition, are janky at best, infuriating at worst. It's not fun, deep or satisfying to play guess the invisible contact point with the cattle prod.

I'm not 100% sold on press X to eliminate these 18 guys simultaneously, but if there's any area where a new Deus Ex could do practically anything and improve on Deus Ex GOTF edition, it's stealth takedowns.

I absolutely agree. This is one hell of a improvement. It was also just 2 guys he took out simultaniously. I am pretty sure the thing he did when he dropped down was some augmentation ability.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I was for the idea of takedowns before I actually saw them. They all look pretty retarded, especially the one done to the enemy in the chair: 4 foot blade comes out of the dudes wrist to kill a man then his weightless ragdoll slowly begins sliding down the chair :lol

 

[Draft]

There's quite a bit more difference than that, but if you're defending this shit already there's not much point in enumerating it.

I'm genuinely curious to hear your defense of Deus Ex stealth takedown mechanics.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I am pretty sure the thing he did when he dropped down was some augmentation ability.

And almost surely perfectly planned and scripted to look bad ass while showing off their new game to the press for the first time. I doubt by the time we're playing it it will be that easy to take out 8 guys simultaneously with one cutscene move (I hope).

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Seems like this link is dead too, anyone have a working link?

Seconded!

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Seems like this link is dead too, anyone have a working link?

This link is working just fine for me..?

 

[keltickennedy]

Videos were removed from both links. Was really disappointed when it wasn't made public at e3. Would anyone be able to hook me up with a working link? Just PM me.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

This link is working just fine for me..?

The link works just fine, the videos don't load for some reason (removed?).

 

[rollingstart]

I am slightly disappointed that they aren't adding more to stealth takedowns if they're changing them in this way. I mean, if they were changing up this much, it would be cool if they let you choose to do Splinter Cell or MGS style interrogations. Considering this game uses number codes for doors, it would be a cool way to get that information.

I'm genuinely curious to hear your defense of Deus Ex stealth takedown mechanics.

the only defense I can think of is that in DX1, taking someone down felt like a really sneaky and quiet move. Here there is a lot of punching and flipping and things like that. But that is purely based on the visuals. If they kept it all first person and a bit more reserved, it would seem a bit better.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Bitches don't know about my max swimming stat

I am slightly disappointed that they aren't adding more to stealth takedowns if they're changing them in this way. I mean, if they were changing up this much, it would be cool if they let you choose to do Splinter Cell or MGS style interrogations. Considering this game uses number codes for doors, it would be a cool way to get that information.

I'm pretty sure they said in the video that you can interrogate everyone, but I don't know if guards count as people.

 

[DigitalDevil]

Videos were removed from both links. Was really disappointed when it wasn't made public at e3. Would anyone be able to hook me up with a working link? Just PM me.

on the last page

I love the music and visual style. The game looks amazing.

Here's a working link for anyone who hasn't checked it out yet:

Part one and two

 

[Confidence Man]

I'm genuinely curious to hear your defense of Deus Ex stealth takedown mechanics.

Not Deus Ex mechanics specifically, but any game that does a decent job of stealth takedowns without resorting to no skill required, multi-enemy kills where I just watch the game do all the cool stuff for me. Thief games, Splinter Cell games, take your pick.

 

[Xater]

Not Deus Ex mechanics specifically, but any game that does a decent job of stealth takedowns without resorting to no skill required, multi-enemy kills where I just watch the game do all the cool stuff for me. Thief games, Splinter Cell games, take your pick.

Splinter Cell is no different from this. You get behind the enemy and do your thing. Thief is pretty much as terrible as the first Deus Ex with steath from behind. I don't want to know how often I missed with that fucking club.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I don't like the fact that the game feels like the player has no control over the takedowns and that they don't leave a room for human mistakes.

I was reading an interview with one of the devs of the Assassin's Creed series and he made a good point which went something like:

Stealth gameplay isn't about the takedown/stunning/disabling of enemies, It's about sneaking around, journeying closer and closer without getting caught. Once you succeed and get yourself into place, taking out an enemy shouldn't have to be any more complex than a button press because the challenge of getting to where you are has been met and you have the element of surprise on your side. The satisfaction of a successful takedown is a "reward," in his words, for the player doing a good job getting to that point. Once I am behind an enemy unseen there is no reason why I wouldn't be able to take him down even if FPS aiming was a factor. If I spent the effort going unseen to get behind an enemy only to swing my cattle prod, miss, and alert all the guards, that isn't fun, that's when I'd hit quickload.

Summary: when playing stealth, getting in position without being seen is the focus and point. Fighting the guy at the end is not. Open for debate.

 

[1-D_FTW]

The double takedown and the falling one are kind of odd though, if they're not tied to augs.

I admittedly only watched it once, but I thought there was some type of detonation and shock wave. I was expecting some kind of Matrix kung-fu bs, so I was pleasantly surprised it might be a bit more involved. Or else I just saw it wrong.

 

[Xater]

Summary: when playing stealth, getting in position without being seen is the focus and point. Fighting the guy at the end is not.

Perfect description. I don't want to go through all the trouble of sneaking around just to fail because of a shitty mechanic. I'd rather see the flashy takedown as my reward.

 

[rollingstart]

Summary: when playing stealth, getting in position without being seen is the focus and point. Fighting the guy at the end is not. Open for debate.

while I agree, at the same time, in most stealth games you also have to take out an enemy without drawing attention. I don't think the stealth takedowns in this game should be like Batman AA where the enemy knows you're there. What I'm saying is that in this brief footage, it doesn't seem like you trying to be that sneaky.

again, the thing that disappoints me most about this footage is that the stealth gameplay doesn't seem to be expanded as much as I thought. Shooting definitely seems better and I will play in that style, but I would have liked to see the stealth mechanics evolve too considering how many stealth games have come out since DE1.

I admittedly only watched it once, but I thought there was some type of detonation and shock wave. I was expecting some kind of Matrix kung-fu bs, so I was pleasantly surprised it might be a bit more involved. Or else I just saw it wrong.

what happens is that he spins and throws out these tiny explosive balls that all detonate at once.

 

[Xater]

If anyone is still having trouble with the videos, I put bove into one zip and pu them on Megaupload:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ELVFLBU

 

[Rekwest]

If anyone is still having trouble with the videos, I put bove into one zip and pu them on Megaupload:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ELVFLBU

Link no works

 

[Xater]

Link no works

Works fine for me.

I copied the URL in again but it's just the same, so it has to work.

 

[pivot]

looks pretty damn good

 

[Castor Krieg]

Splinter Cell is no different from this. You get behind the enemy and do your thing. Thief is pretty much as terrible as the first Deus Ex with steath from behind. I don't want to know how often I missed with that fucking club.

Yes, stealth kills in DX1 were terrible thanks to poor collision detection of present-day tech. It is really no different here - both games require you to get behind an enemy or at least catch them off-guard. I can imagine how the takedowns would've looked in first person, but I understand why they went for cinematic feeling, and I'm ok with that.

 

[Kade]

Show of hands, who actually feels like they've been rewarded when they watch a cinematic of your character killing 5 dudes.

 

[revolverjgw]

The third person takedown shit sucks. Melee kills feel so visceral and badass in, say, Killzone or Riddick, you just lay into those motherfuckers and it feels like it has weight and heft, it never stops feeling awesome, quick and dirty. "Cutscene" kills get old fast.

The game still looks amazing though. A game this ambitious is almost always going to be some kind of flawed masterpiece at best.

 

[rollingstart]

Show of hands, who actually feels like they've been rewarded when they watch a cinematic of your character killing 5 dudes.

if you're talking about the end bit where he falls through the skylight? then yeah, totally. he got straight into a firefight after pulling off that move and had to deal with that noisy attack. If I was playing it, no one would even see me.

 

[Zoc]

Looks great aside from the takedowns, which are utter bullshit and have no place in this game. It looks like every melee attack is a fucking cutscene. The one where he just runs right up to two guards and then BAM a cutscene where he kills them both was ridiculous, as was the drop down + area attack. How can anyone think that shit is a good idea? Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck

I'm sure this was shoehorned into the game by Square-Enix, it reminds me so much of the interminable battle animations and summons in their RPGs.

 

[Zenith]

Show of hands, who actually feels like they've been rewarded when they watch a cinematic of your character killing 5 dudes.

raises hand.

would you prefer it took place from first person like using grenade/mines normally does so you can't even see the results?

 

[Fireye]

on the last page

That link isn't working as well. The page loads, but the embeded video are f'ed. S-E is probably pretty pissed that this got leaked out, hopefully we'll see a proper reveal soon.

 

[ezekial45]

The only thing i dislike about the takedowns is that the actual animation for the them take way too long. They should be a lot quicker.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Show of hands, who actually feels like they've been rewarded when they watch a cinematic of your character killing 5 dudes.

If you're referring specifically to the scene after he dropped down through the window, the reward there is seeing your character customization in work. You've invested enough into whatever skill-tree/augmentation line/whathaveyou that you unlocked the bomb-arm thingamajig. Now its being put to use with a cool cinematic. Reward.

 

[Numpt3]

Stealth gameplay isn't about the takedown/stunning/disabling of enemies, It's about sneaking around, journeying closer and closer without getting caught. Once you succeed and get yourself into place, taking out an enemy shouldn't have to be any more complex than a button press because the challenge of getting to where you are has been met and you have the element of surprise on your side. The satisfaction of a successful takedown is a "reward," in his words, for the player doing a good job getting to that point. Once I am behind an enemy unseen there is no reason why I wouldn't be able to take him down even if FPS aiming was a factor. If I spent the effort going unseen to get behind an enemy only to swing my cattle prod, miss, and alert all the guards, that isn't fun, that's when I'd hit quickload.

That is a pretty good point.

 

[Confidence Man]

Summary: when playing stealth, getting in position without being seen is the focus and point. Fighting the guy at the end is not. Open for debate.

Taking the guy out is the point, and the reward is having the guy dead without having alerted anyone. That's why you're being stealthy isn't it? Sneaking and getting in position is just the setup.

It's like saying a sniper should get an automatic killshot as a reward for finding a hiding spot, waiting patiently, and marking an enemy.

 

[keltickennedy]

If anyone is still having trouble with the videos, I put bove into one zip and pu them on Megaupload:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ELVFLBU

Much thanks!!

 

[FunkyPajamas]

If anyone is still having trouble with the videos, I put bove into one zip and pu them on Megaupload:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ELVFLBU

Gracias amigo! Will download, watch and comment.

 

[Jenga]

The only difference is, in one case it's "press left mouse button, guy falls down," and in another case it's "press X button, guy falls down." The amount of hate this feature is getting is ridiculous.

No, the difference was "Press left mouse button, hit the guy on the back of the head, and watch him drop" and sometimes it went like "Press left mouse button, woops he noticed, and you struck his side. He popped you in the skull with a shotgun". Deus Ex's stealth is Thief-lite. There's a huge difference between what DX1 did and what DX3 is doing with the takedown mechanics, and I wish people would quit trying to downplay it. However, if they actually keep the takedowns restricted to augs, or make it even cost some bio energy, I'd be cool with it. Creeping up on someone now has no real tension when all you have to do is make sure you get the prompt in time.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Taking the guy out is the point, and the reward is having the guy dead without having alerted anyone. That's why you're being stealthy isn't it? Sneaking and getting in position is just the setup.

It's like saying a sniper should get an automatic killshot as a reward for finding a hiding spot, waiting patiently, and marking an enemy.

Taking out the guy is NOT the point. Stealth does not necessarily involve combat.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

It's like saying a sniper should get an automatic killshot as a reward for finding a hiding spot, waiting patiently, and marking an enemy.

Similarly, if I spent ten minutes sneaking around to get to a hiding spot, waited for the right moment, fired my sniper rifle and missed, I would quickload and try again. The challenge isn't shooting the gun, shooting the gun is just pushing a button. The challenge lies in getting in position without hell breaking loose. The devs here are choosing to emphasize the stealth, not the......I don't even know. The "fighting" of enemies? Aiming your cursor on the backs of their head and pushing X?

 

[Pooya]

Works fine for me.

I copied the URL in again but it's just the same, so it has to work.

works fine, DLing 226MB, thanks.

 

[Jenga]

Similarly, if I spent ten minutes sneaking around to get to a hiding spot, waited for the right moment, fired my sniper rifle and missed, I would quickload and try again. The challenge isn't shooting the gun, shooting the gun is just pushing a button. The challenge lies in getting in position without hell breaking loose. The devs here are choosing to emphasize the stealth, not the......I don't even know. The "fighting" of enemies? Aiming your cursor on the backs of their head and pushing X?

It's an unneeded simplification, enough said. The only real defense anyone really gives is "b-b-but it looks cool!" or "b-b-but I spent all that time just getting there, why shouldn't I be able to instantly kill him". Again, the takedown is half the tension of the stealth kill/non-lethal drop. This is what makes me enjoy the stealth in the original and the Thief series so damn much. It completely breaks immersion, and reduces difficulty just because it wants to look cool.

 

[Confidence Man]

Taking out the guy is NOT the point. Stealth does not necessarily involve combat.

In stealth takedowns it does. At least follow what we're talking about here.

Similarly, if I spent ten minutes sneaking around to get to a hiding spot, waited for the right moment, fired my sniper rifle and missed, I would quickload and try again.

And the problem with that would be what? That it's possible to fail?

 

[MikeE21286]

If anyone is still having trouble with the videos, I put bove into one zip and pu them on Megaupload:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ELVFLBU

thanks man! didn't get to see this first time around

 

[Jenga]

Oh, and if it turns out Thief 4 uses instant takedowns because everyone loves it in Deus Ex 3, I will kill all of you.

 

[Confidence Man]

Oh, and if it turns out Thief 4 uses instant takedowns because everyone loves it in Deus Ex 3, I will kill all of you.

Actually I read Thief 4 will feature an "eagle eye" mode, where you just target someone and it switches to cutscene where Garret dramatically draws his bow and fires off an arrow, which the camera follows on it's path in slow motion until it hits it's mark (it can't miss).

 

[DaBuddaDa]

And the problem with that would be what? That it's possible to fail?

Failure should result by unsuccessfully reaching a hiding spot and instead setting off alarms and starting a big firefight, removing the option of using a sniper rifle, not "oh crap my mouse cord got caught on my desk so I missed the shot, fuck, quickload."

 

[∀ Narayan]

Reading some of the negative impressions -- I can see why they didn't want to show it publicly. I hope it's for the best though. Shine that shit up, Eidos.

 

[Xater]

Oh, and if it turns out Thief 4 uses instant takedowns because everyone loves it in Deus Ex 3, I will kill all of you.

Man maybe then you will go away and stop complaining about superior game design.

Reading some of the negative impressions -- you can see why they didn't want to show it publicly. I hope it's for the best though. Shine that shit up, Eidos.

What is there to shine up. That was very polished for the amount of time that is still left.

 

[Jenga]

Failure should result by unsuccessfully reaching a hiding spot and instead setting off alarms and starting a big firefight, removing the option of using a sniper rifle, not "oh crap my mouse cord got caught on my desk so I missed the shot, fuck, quickload."

shitty reasoning

why dilute the experience just because someone sucks at it?

 

[Jenga]

Man maybe then you will go away and stop complaining about superior game design.

not until deus ex 3 has a sort of "augmented vision" mode where you can instantly headshot everyone in your field of view for a limited amount of time

i mean half the difficulty is just make it into cover in time and not get shot