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[DaBuddaDa]

shitty reasoning

why dilute the experience just because someone sucks at it?

I'll argue that it enhances the experience because the game won't penalize you for design that exists out of the realm of stealth gameplay.

 

[Dali]

The challenge isn't shooting the gun, shooting the gun is just pushing a button. The challenge lies in getting in position without hell breaking loose...

... and shooting the damn gun. I wouldn't want a shot automated, taking away the fun of waiting for just the right moment, leading the victim, making sure none of the surrounding people/structures will block the shot, in a game portion involving sniping. I think it's more fun to complete the whole task.

With that said, I don't think I'd mind an automated kill for just one enemy, but once you start auto-killing more than one then you are totally taking away enjoyable gameplay opportunities and dumbing down any strategy that would otherwise be involved with killing or evading so many enemies.

 

[Kade]

Eidos Montreal should just make a hardcore/classic mode without all the babby takedown cutscenes as a "reward" and make it full first person perspective. I always thought beating a level or getting new upgrades/items was a reward but I guess some people think a 3 second clip ripped directly from the Matrix is rewarding. :/

To each their own.

 

[Jenga]

I'll argue that it enhances the experience because the game won't penalize you for design that exists out of the realm of stealth gameplay.

:lol

 

[Stumpokapow]

Eidos Montreal should just make a hardcore/classic mode and make it full first person perspective.

How would that be a classic mode? The original Deus Ex had third person cutscenes.

 

[Kade]

How would that be a classic mode? The original Deus Ex had third person cutscenes.

You know what I mean. -_-

 

[Kittonwy]

The single takedowns look fine. I mean, it just goes down to preference. Do you like to run up to something and thwak them in the neck or do you want a little context sensitive animation? Personally, both are fine for me.

The only part that was iffy to me was the double takedown. That is, unless it was tied to an aug like the strength aug, then it's perfectly fine by me.

The single takedown completely takes the player out of the first-person immersion, you CAN have context-sensitive animations without having to resort to doing a canned cutscene, switching camera perspective is NOT they way to show a take-down, it takes away the feeling of seamlessness and makes the player wait for the cutscene to end.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

... and shooting the damn gun. I wouldn't want a shot automated, taking away the fun of waiting for just the right moment, leading the victim, making sure none of the surrounding people/structures will block the shot, in a game portion involving sniping. I think it's more fun to complete the whole task.

I agree, in a game such as Call of Duty or a game specifically about sniping, but in the context of Deus Ex or a stealth game, the player input is almost identical, all that is removed is aiming a melee weapon. In a stealth game, the focus should be on the stealth and you don't necessarily need to have a player practice his aim at the end to take someone down.

If you want gameplay focused on aiming, well nothing is stopping you from sneaking behind someone, then pulling out a gun and shooting him instead of takedowning him.

 

[Pinko Marx]

In stealth takedowns it does. At least follow what we're talking about here.

No, we're talking about stealth in general, and how the takedowns serve as an optional reward for well done stealth.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Hey, Human Revolution does conversation in 1st person, does that mean it's more hardcore than DX1?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The single takedown completely takes the player out of the first-person immersion, you CAN have context-sensitive animations without having to resort to doing a canned cutscene, switching camera perspective is NOT they way to show a take-down, it takes away the feeling of seamlessness and makes the player wait for the cutscene to end.

...and that is your opinion. I thought the takedown looked pretty cool and I imagine many other people will enjoy it. Yes, I've played through and thoroughly enjoyed the original Deus Ex.

 

[Gorgon]

I love the music and visual style. The game looks amazing.

Here's a working link for anyone who hasn't checked it out yet:

Part one and two

Removed! Anyone has this shit!??! Fuck I wanna see it!!!

EDIT: sorry, missed the MegaUploads link!

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I take it the people who don't like the idea of takedowns probably hated Assassin's Creed II.

 

[Jenga]

No, we're talking about stealth in general, and how the takedowns serve as an optional reward for well done stealth.

The reward wasn't just getting there. Successfully taking out the baddy with a well-aimed shot is another layer of it. It's a shortcut, nothing more.

Diluting the experience is not enhancing it.

 

[Sciz]

While we're on the subject of one-hit takedowns, I wonder if there will be some equivalent of the Dragon's Tooth Sword so I can do a max speed and ballistic protection build and run around chopping everyone up again.

You only need stealth if anyone lives long enough to set off the alarm.

 

[Xater]

Removed! Anyone has this shit!??! Fuck I wanna see it!!!

I posted a download link on page 3. (if you also use 100 posts per page)

 

[Kade]

I take it the people who don't like the idea of takedowns probably hated Assassin's Creed II.

I liked them in ACII because:

1. The game was third person at all times.

2. You press the button and your guy does a single strike, not a whole kung fu dance thing.

3. All the stealth kills didn't take away your camera control and make it look dramatic, that only happened once in a while (for me at least).

4. Assassin's Creed II wasn't burdened with the task of being in the same series as Deus Ex.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Hey, Human Revolution does conversation in 1st person, does that mean it's more hardcore than DX1?

It gains +five(5) hardcore points. But one-button takedowns, cover mechanics, and regenerating health all tip it toward the dumbed down scale of things.

 

[Jenga]

I take it the people who don't like the idea of takedowns probably hated Assassin's Creed II.

Assassin's Creed is an entirely different game that isn't a successor of Deus Ex. Big difference buddy.

 

[Dali]

I agree, in a game such as Call of Duty or a game specifically about sniping, but in the context of Deus Ex or a stealth game, the player input is almost identical, all that is removed is aiming a melee weapon. In a stealth game, the focus should be on the stealth and you don't necessarily need to have a player practice his aim at the end to take someone down.

If you want gameplay focused on aiming, well nothing is stopping you from sneaking behind someone, then pulling out a gun and shooting him instead of takedowning him.

Your response seems like it completely ignores the second half of my quote, which makes sense seeing as how you didn't quote it.

 

[Gorgon]

I posted a download link on page 3. (if you also use 100 posts per page)

Yeah, I edited my post above, missed that link. Thanks!

 

[Xater]

Assassin's Creed is an entirely different game that isn't a successor of Deus Ex. Big difference buddy.

It also is a modern title that shows how things are successfully done today.

Deus Ex is awesome but has it's faults and janky stealth takedowns are one of them. Jankiness does not equal good game design. Just take down your rose tinted nostalgia glasses once.

 

[Kade]

It also is a modern title that shows how things are successfully done today.

Deus Ex is awesome but has it's faults and janky stealth takedowns are one of them. Jankiness does not equal good game design. Just take down your rose tinted nostalgia glasses once.

3 second cutscenes that the player is forced to watch isn't good game design either. Good visual design maybe, but not good game design.

 

[Jenga]

It also is a modern title that shows how things are successfully done today.

Deus Ex is awesome but has it's faults and janky stealth takedowns are one of them. Jankiness does not equal good game design. Just take down your rose tinted nostalgia glasses once.

In what way is the stealth takedown janky? Or is striking someone on the back of the head too goddamn difficult for you or anyone else on this board?

No fucking shit Deus Ex had janky combat mechanics, but stealth takedown wasn't one of them.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

I don't think I'd mind an automated kill for just one enemy, but once you start auto-killing more than one then you are totally taking away enjoyable gameplay opportunities and dumbing down any strategy that would otherwise be involved with killing or evading so many enemies.

Jumping through the roof is clearly a cutscene/showpiece and not indicative of what is possible while you're actually playing. If I'm wrong, which I highly doubt I am, then I definitely agree with your Second Paragraph.

 

[lorddarkflare]

It also is a modern title that shows how things are successfully done today.

Deus Ex is awesome but has it's faults and janky stealth takedowns are one of them. Jankiness does not equal good game design. Just take down your rose tinted nostalgia glasses once.

As I play Deus Ex right now, I am currently smashing these same glasses beneath my heel.

Talk about aging poorly!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

3 second cutscenes that the player is forced to watch isn't good game design either. Good visual design maybe, but not good game design.

That's completely subjective.

 

[charlequin]

I'm sure this was shoehorned into the game by Square-Enix, it reminds me so much of the interminable battle animations and summons in their RPGs.

Are you posting from 1999? Could you call me and tell me to short dotcom stocks?

 

[DaBuddaDa]

In what way is it janky? Or is striking someone on the back of the head too goddamn difficult for you or anyone else on this board?

I'm not saying it's too hard, I'm saying there is very little difference between aiming and hitting and pressing the takedown button and hitting. In either situation if the guard were to turn around right before you struck your move would fail. I think they've implemented takedowns because other modern games have done it this way and done it well, and people by and large dislike using melee weapons in a first-person view (something that I think 3D can help fix).

I'd like to clarify that I don't really care either way. Takedown or aim, whatever, it seems like such a small issue that I don't understand why people are sooooo against it raaaageeee!!!! Please try convince me that this is completely game ruining and awful and the worst decision ever, because I'm just not seeing it that way.

 

[kittoo]

I kinda agree that its subjective whether you like third person take downs etc. I personally don't like them but I can understand why people wouldn't mind them.

 

[Jenga]

Please try convince me that this is completely game ruining and awful and the worst decision ever, because I'm just not seeing it that way.

I never claimed that. Hell, I don't think anyone claimed this. But I will say it makes the stealth gameplay that much weaker in my eyes, and I'll probably just end up shooting my way through this.

I'm not saying it's too hard, I'm saying there is very little difference between aiming and hitting and pressing the takedown button and hitting. In either situation if the guard were to turn around right before you struck your move would fail.

The possibility of failure is a big part of it. And no, having a guard turn around BEFORE I strike my move is more different than them noticing me and turning around WHILE I made my move.

 

[charlequin]

Show of hands, who actually feels like they've been rewarded when they watch a cinematic of your character killing 5 dudes.

I feel pretty rewarded when I've completed a challenging stealth gameplay sequence and pressing a button at the end of it causes a brief cutscene or other not-quite-interactive element to occur, yes.

The possibility of failure is a big part of it. And no, having a guard turn around BEFORE I strike my move is more different than them noticing me and turning around WHILE I made my move.

I haven't really heard what the actual gameplay distinction is here, except that in the latter case you've added one extra twitch gate to get through before you succeed -- in which case either that last gate is handled intuitively and it's largely equivalent to the takedown button or it's handled unintuitively and it actively impedes the enjoyability of the stealth gameplay.

 

[Draft]

In what way is the stealth takedown janky? Or is striking someone on the back of the head too goddamn difficult for you or anyone else on this board?

No fucking shit Deus Ex had janky combat mechanics, but stealth takedown wasn't one of them.

:lol Yes, striking someone in the back of the head is too difficult when sometimes their head goes invincible mode and your attack passes through harmlessly.

 

[Jenga]

twitch gate

a what now

:lol Yes, striking someone in the back of the head is too difficult when sometimes their head goes invincible mode and your attack passes through harmlessly.

Never had it happen to me

 

[BboyDubC]

If anyone is still having trouble with the videos, I put bove into one zip and pu them on Megaupload:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7ELVFLBU

What did you use to encode this?? Downloaded it and it doesn't play....

 

[Gribbix]

Jumping through the roof is clearly a cutscene/showpiece and not indicative of what is possible while you're actually playing. If I'm wrong, which I highly doubt I am, then I definitely agree with your Second Paragraph.

That sequence was actually 2 separate augs activated in quick succession. The first is basically a ground stomp from above ability that was used to quickly break through the glass and stun all nearby enemies. From what I've read, unlike the takedowns, that wasn't context-sensitive. Once the enemies were stunned by the first aug, a second aug was activated to create a ring of mini explosives around the character.

 

[DieH@rd]

Cmon, can someone upload ths videos to RS or MU?

edit - ok found MU linkz.

 

[lorddarkflare]

Never had it happen to me

Me neither, but then again I have only beaten Deus Ex by sniping all fools in my path.

None of that subtlety business.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

I don't have and can't install VLC on my work PC.

So where can I watch this?

 

[Fireye]

I don't have and can't install VLC on my work PC.

So where can I watch this?

At home.

 

[shintoki]

Jumping through the roof is clearly a cutscene/showpiece and not indicative of what is possible while you're actually playing. If I'm wrong, which I highly doubt I am, then I definitely agree with your Second Paragraph.

I actually dislike that. What could have been a cool ability(Pounce) or something like that were you can execute an AE by jumping from a high height, or even using it as a safety net to stop fall damage. Felt more like a scripted event.

When people refer to the one button badasses, it's not so much about hitting one button. To be honest, it's not really any different than sniping or so forth. But it looks like if you get in a certain range, you hit the melee. It proceeds than to execute a 5 second cutscene over a kill. It's normally very flashy and it is something that's jarring from the typical gameplay. It really doesn't feel like you are doing it then. RE4 is a good example where many of the QTEs. It still felt like I was in control. Ducking a swinging tree or jumping out of a house with a quick cut. It blended in nicely for the most part. Mikami had an eye for knowing when to execute them and how too. While ones like God of War, always felt kind of annoying and unnecessary. Most of them were simply just a gratuitous finisher.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

That sequence was actually 2 separate augs activated in quick succession. The first is basically a ground stomp from above ability that was used to quickly break through the glass and stun all nearby enemies. From what I've read, unlike the takedowns, that wasn't context-sensitive. Once the enemies were stunned by the first aug, a second aug was activated to create a ring of mini explosives around the character.

When we're actually playing the game though, when you use those two augments would the camera zoom around in cinematic style automatically while you controlled your guy from a distance in third person? Or are they just showing it that way because it looks better than actually doing it in first person?

 

[Xater]

That sequence was actually 2 separate augs activated in quick succession. The first is basically a ground stomp from above ability that was used to quickly break through the glass and stun all nearby enemies. From what I've read, unlike the takedowns, that wasn't context-sensitive. Once the enemies were stunned by the first aug, a second aug was activated to create a ring of mini explosives around the character.

Good to know and I guess on top of that there will be some kind of limitation (energy?) on how often you can use all of the abilities shown in the video.

 

[tea_and_crumpets]

Was it just me or was there often lag when he shot people (ie where he sneaks up on some guy and caps him in the head, without the auto kill cutscene)? How early is the build, because I would imagine if its pre-alpha then thats why they didn't show it on the show floor.

 

[Solo]

The aesthetic is more Mass Effect than Deus Ex

(Of course, both of those are derivative of other things, but still)

 

[Pinko Marx]

Good to know and I guess on top of that there will be some kind of limitation (energy?) on how often you can use all of the abilities shown in the video.

Yeah, theres an energy bar that depletes everytime you use an Aug. I believe.

 

[StuBurns]

The aesthetic is more Mass Effect than Deus Ex

(Of course, both of those are derivative of other things, but still)

The color palette is like The Fountain, can't see it and not think of that film.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

:lol Yes, striking someone in the back of the head is too difficult when sometimes their head goes invincible mode and your attack passes through harmlessly.

Say what? Never had that happen.

EDIT:

I really, really like how this looks. It feels like a really good mix between a first person action RPG, with several third person action elements that really makes the game feel more character based. The canned animation attacks and art direction remind me A LOT of a Japanese action game, which is pretty good imo. It sets it apart from Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol pretty well.

Technically, it looks the game run very well, even though it isn't the most graphically intensive game. Great art direction makes a huge different here - another area which reminds me more of Japanese games than western games. I'm honestly really surprised that this is a completely western game, and it could be a pretty big hit in Japan if S-E markets it right. If GTA and MW can get a good following in Japan, this can definitely do even better.

Pretty hyped for this title now!

this is the most terrifying thing I've ever read

 

[duckroll]

I really, really like how this looks. It feels like a really good mix between a first person action RPG, with several third person action elements that really makes the game feel more character based. The canned animation attacks and art direction remind me A LOT of a Japanese action game, which is pretty good imo. It sets it apart from Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol pretty well.

Technically, it looks the game run very well, even though it isn't the most graphically intensive game. Great art direction makes a huge different here - another area which reminds me more of Japanese games than western games. I'm honestly really surprised that this is a completely western game, and it could be a pretty big hit in Japan if S-E markets it right. If GTA and MW can get a good following in Japan, this can definitely do even better.

Pretty hyped for this title now!

 

[54-46!]

Looks like it's running on the PS3?