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Deus Ex fans - It's time to panic!

PuppetMaster

PuppetMaster

Member
Deus Ex lead designer Jean-Francois Dugas claims the original game was “Kinda Slow” and:

There weren’t enough exciting, memorable moments. It was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience.”
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http://www.edge-online.com/news/deus-ex-was-“kinda-slow”-says-deus-ex-3-dev


Quite frankly I am terrified to hear the lead designer say this. If he thinks the game was slow and without existing memorable moments he simply doesn't get what made the original Deus Ex great at all. Maybe he just didn't choose his words carefully enough. But if he really isn't a fan of DX1, then wtf?

Nothing wrong with making a straight up action game. But for the love of all that is good and beautiful about Deus Ex, what is the point of continuing the DX franchise if it is going to be just another action game. What happened to keeping the the spirit of the original game? Instead of potentially further sullying the name of a game beloved by fans, couldn't they have gone with a new IP?

Deus Ex was never about punchy action filled romps. It was about being in this world that felt alive and open to multiple solutions based on your own creativity. The already tarnished name of DeusEx screams for vengeance! Please make a worthy successor.
 
What's with the revisionist history that remembers Deus Ex as a perfect-10 sorta game? It was pretty flawed, but great.

I like everything I've read/seen about DX3 so far.
 
Just give up. Give up on Deus Ex, give up on System Shock, give up on Fallout, give up on Bioware. It's all over. It'll never be the same again.
 
Way to leave out the positive second paragraph:

But he said developer Eidos Montreal would not attempt to dumb down the much-loved RPG-shooter franchise. “At this point we don’t know exactly which platforms we’re going to be out on. The PC, we’ll be there for sure. But for us, console-isation isn’t about dumbing down features. If we’re to go console we will want to keep the complexity alive. We want the menu interface and controller to feel simple without risking any of their potential"
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The negative agenda already being propogated for DX3 is fucking absurd.
 
Confidence Man said:
Just give up. Give up on Deus Ex, give up on System Shock, give up on Fallout, give up on Bioware. It's all over. It'll never be the same again.
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Dead Space is the closest I've gotten to scratching my System Shock itch
 
Zilch said:
What's with the revisionist history that remembers Deus Ex as a perfect-10 sorta game? It was pretty flawed, but great.
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Revisionist? Deus Ex was a perfect-10 the day it came out. One of the best games ever made, period.
 
Variable said:
So, he wants to make the game like every other game out there? Why not try to stand out and be different?
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Because they don't want to become another Creative Risk (tm) like Brutal Legend.
 
Confidence Man said:
Just give up. Give up on Deus Ex, give up on System Shock, give up on Fallout, give up on Bioware. It's all over. It'll never be the same again.
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At least we still have Valve and Blizzard.
 
Zilch said:
Way to leave out the positive second paragraph:



The negative agenda already being propogated for DX3 is fucking absurd.
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DX2 designers said the exact same shit about not dumbing it down while making it more mainstream. We know were that turned out.

The problem with DX2 was not that it was dumbed down for console. They threw out too many things that they thought "were not core" to the experience. And what they were left with in the end was a game without the same soul.
 
I'd also be worried by his background.

Games Credited
Far Cry: Instincts - Evolution (2006), Ubisoft, Inc.
Far Cry: Instincts - Predator (2006), Ubisoft, Inc.
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas (2006), Ubisoft, Inc.
Far Cry: Instincts (2005), Ubisoft, Inc.
Speed Challenge: Jacques Villeneuve's Racing Vision (2002), Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
F1 Racing Simulation (1997), Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
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We'll see. A new Deus Ex is a huge project for a new studio.
 
While I certainly do not wish to see Deus Ex become an action fest, I do believe it needs seriously improved combat mechanics. As much as I enjoyed the game, it was always poor in those areas. The gunplay was awful and the AI was often attrocious. It was a terrible shooter despite the fact that shooting played a serious role in the game itself.

I would love to see a game with similar pacing as Deus Ex combined with an improved combat system. Poor AI/gunplay is precisely what ruined STALKER for me.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem as if they want to focus on the other things that made DX great. I WANT a slow paced game.

The problem with DX2 was not that it was dumbed down for console. They threw out too many things that they thought "were not core" to the experience. And what they were left with in the end was a game without the same soul.
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I still believe that, even with so many elements removed, DXIW could have been great if not for engine limitations. The tiny maps were so compact and divided that you ended up losing the feeling of exploring an interesting locale.
 
Far Cry Instincts and R6 Vegas are not exactly bad games. But it's like saying Michael Bay is a competent enough action director, let's give him Saving Private Ryan.
 
PuppetMaster said:
DX2 designers said the exact same shit about not dumbing it down while making it more mainstream. We know were that turned out.

The problem with DX2 was not that it was dumbed down for console. They threw out too many things that they thought "were not core" to the experience. And what they were left with in the end was a game without the same soul.
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This isn't even the same team. Seriously, can "It's time to panic!" sound like anything other than a ridiculous sky-is-falling overreaction? People WANT to hate this game before it's been revealed in any great capacity.

edit: dark10x: nooooo deux ex was perfect whats wrong with you for pointing out flawwwwwwsssss
 
Zilch said:
What's with the revisionist history that remembers Deus Ex as a perfect-10 sorta game? It was pretty flawed, but great.
.
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Flawed but great? WHAT? A MC rating of 90 and a fucking BAFTA isn't good enough for you? Revisionist history my arse, Deus Ex still ranks with the top games ever made, end of.

As for this guys statements, if Deus Ex doesn't have enough "memorable" moments how come I can remember the game so well? Just off my head the Lebedev plane scene was incredible, HK was fun and the climax of the game held you to the very end.

If the lead designer hasn't got a clue what made Deus Ex so great, which it sure seems like, then DX3 is doomed. Spector, GET BACK HERE NOW, and save your creation, bastard.
 
fallengorn said:
At least we still have Valve and Blizzard.
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Honestly, I fear for them too.

Valve has Steam to tie it to the PC, Blizzard has WoW. If any of those ends, they'll "consolize" for sure.

(I have no problem with the console experience, I just wish for a return of genres gone with the PC to console transition)
 
Time to panic? Where the fuck have you been? The Deus Ex franchise died in 2003.

The only thing real DX fans have to look forward to are fond memories and possible DX mods.
 
As I remember it, PC Gamer (in the US) was the only mag I remember giving Deus Ex a "great" score (than giving it GOTY). Pretty much all the other mags (as far as I remember) gave it just "good" scores (CGW gave it a 3/5 I believe?). I actually only bought it because of the GOTY edition.
 
Zilch said:
What's with the revisionist history that remembers Deus Ex as a perfect-10 sorta game? It was pretty flawed, but great.
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I´m sure I have a good, developed and long answer to such silliness but intead of that...

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Sorry, but the creative designer of Far Cry: fucking Instincts is not ready to speak as professional about Deus Ex, much less to be lead designer of a sequel. I'm usually a positive guy with a "wait and see" attitude, but I'm ready to eat crow when saying that this game will fall ridiculously short of Deus Ex`s greatness. Saying Deus Ex is slow is ignoring all the great reasons of why it´s "slow", as part of a perfectly crafted open design.

I have zero faith on this project. Zero.
 
Deus Ex was almost nothing but memorable moments. Remember just at the very start seeing the Statue of Liberty in the distance? Or getting cornered in the subway? Or your final meeting with your boss? Or meeting your brother? Or the secret hideout of the crazy Chinese revolutionary guy? Or fighting that german cyborg dickhead?

I haven't played the game since it was released, and I STILL remember so much. I'm hard pressed thinking of another game as memorable.
 
Stop It said:
As for this guys statements, if Deus Ex doesn't have enough "memorable" moments how come I can remember the game so well? Just off my head the Lebedev plane scene was incredible, HK was fun and the climax of the game held you to the very end.
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When he speaks of "memorable moments" he isn't discussing the memorable moments I had throwing furniture out of Maggie Chow's penthouse apartment window, or the memorable moments you had with your own playthrough. He's talking specifically about huge scripted events. Look at the language he uses - "a game experience." What does that mean?

It means, quite frankly, what big-budget games have become in recent years. Content munchers. Tunnels you throw a player down that contain a bunch of scripted sequences and "WOW COOL" moments but little in the way of substantive or expressive gameplay. This isn't about "dumbing down" the game for a console audience, it's about pressure being put on the development team by their higher ups to create a game that's fiscally sound.

Think of how many ways you could approach the Statue of Liberty level alone. Then think of how much money it would cost to render that level with today's level of detail, knowing that an individual player might see only a third of it on a given playthough. It makes no financial sense to encourage multiple playthroughs of a single, huge, expensive level when we can throw you down your choice of two narrow corridors and finely craft an "experience" around your progress.

You lose out on player expression, you lose out on replayability, you lose out on being faithful to everything that made the original great. But you gain the knowledge that you're not spending hundreds of man hours building a shack or secret room or clever puzzle that a sliver of players are going to see. You also attain a wider audience; more people are willing to play a game on rails. You also get the ability to be "cinematic" and present your hyper-scripted story as though it were a film. It's win/win/win from a publisher perspective.
 
fallengorn said:
At least we still have Valve and Blizzard.
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Not for long, at the rate things are going.
Campster said:
When he speaks of "memorable moments" he isn't discussing the memorable moments I had throwing furniture out of Maggie Chow's penthouse apartment window, or the memorable moments you had with your own playthrough. He's talking specifically about huge scripted events. Look at the language he uses - "a game experience." What does that mean?

It means, quite frankly, what big-budget games have become in recent years. Content munchers. Tunnels you throw a player down that contain a bunch of scripted sequences and "WOW COOL" moments but little in the way of substantive or expressive gameplay. This isn't about "dumbing down" the game for a console audience, it's about pressure being put on the development team by their higher ups to create a game that fiscally sound game.

Think of how many ways you could approach the Statue of Liberty level alone. Then think of how much money it would cost to render that level with today's level of detail, knowing that an individual player might see only a third of it on a given playthough. It makes no financial sense to encourage multiple playthroughs of a single, huge, expensive level when we can throw you down your choice of two narrow corridors and finely craft an "experience" around your progress.

You lose out on player expression, you lose out on replayability, you lose out on being faithful to everything that made the original great. But you gain the knowledge that you're not spending hundreds of man hours building a shack or secret room or clever puzzle that a sliver of players are going to see. You also attain a wider audience; more people are willing to play a game on rails. You also get the ability to be "cinematic" and present your hyper-scripted story as though it were a film. It's win/win/win from a publisher perspective.
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This post just makes me incredibly :(

Because its true.
shuri said:
Guys, let's stay calm; for gods sake. Let's not resort to fallout fans-lameness.
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So we SHOULDNT bitch when a developer of publisher fucks up our favorite game franchises? I guess I see logic in that. Not a whole lot we can do to change current affairs.
 
shuri said:
Guys, let's stay calm; for gods sake. Let's not resort to fallout fans-lameness.
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No! I want blood! *hyperventilates*

And, yes, Campster's post is great and full of grim reality.
 
Zanboo said:
Dead Space is the closest I've gotten to scratching my System Shock itch
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Dead Space was allegedly meant to be System Shock 3 during early development. That's probably why so many people see similarities between Dead Space and Bioshock.

I think it would be stunning to see System Shock 3, with depth and complexity kept intact obviously, using Dead Space's phenomenal engine.
 
I actually agree with this guy, if he's talking about what I think he is. I love Deus Ex like a mother loves her least ugly child, but I'm not blind to the obvious issues the game can have with pacing.

Probably not an argument I want to get into though. Deus Ex fanatics can be just one small step away from the Fallout fanatics sometimes. Sorry!
 
Confidence Man said:
Just give up. Give up on Deus Ex, give up on System Shock, give up on Fallout, give up on Bioware. It's all over. It'll never be the same again.
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Why would I give up on Fallout (3)? And why the hell would I give up on Bioware? They're making some of the best games ever these last two generations.

And why already give up on Deus Ex 3? Most of you fanatics just want an HD remake of the original, and while that may be nice and all, you must understand that that's not going to be the case.
 
Mr. Durden said:
Why would I give up on Fallout (3)? And why the hell would I give up on Bioware? They're making some of the best games ever these last two generations.
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Did you ever play Baldur's Gate 2?

Then you'll know why we're all so disappointed with Bioware.
 
I'll just keep saying to myself that this can't be worse than IW. I mean, it just isn't possible.
fennec fox said:
If you want Deus Ex, then just play Deus Ex, you freaks.
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Then don't fucking call it Deus Ex! Is it so wrong to want a Deus Ex game when the freakin' game is called just that?!
I don't want lemon lime I want orange!
 
Acosta said:
I´m sure I have a good, developed and long answer to such silliness but intead of that...

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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I'm sure you DON'T. A line of laughing smileys is universally known as "I don't agree with this statement but don't have a good rebuttal so I'll just post emoticons like it's so beneath me to answer intelligently." Good job there.

Also, Deus Ex Invisible War has an 80 on Metacritic (XBox version has an 84). What's the point in referencing MC numbers anyhow? I'm sure most of you wonderful people think DX1 deserves a perfect 100 and DXIW deserves a -10. Can't people be objective about things they like/don't like?
 
EmCeeGramr said:
"I vanted Deus Ex. It gave me CoD4."

"Are you sure you pressed ze right button?"

"I DO NOT MAKE MISTAKES OF ZAT KIND."
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Gold.

And to think some people think DeusEx wasn't memorable. Pfffff!
 
Mr. Durden said:
Why would I give up on Fallout (3)? And why the hell would I give up on Bioware? They're making some of the best games ever these last two generations.

And why already give up on Deus Ex 3? Most of you fanatics just want an HD remake of the original, and while that may be nice and all, you must understand that that's not going to be the case.
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We don't want a remake of the original. We want a legitimate sequel. Why is that so hard to grasp?
 
Confidence Man said:
Just give up. Give up on Deus Ex, give up on System Shock, give up on Fallout, give up on Bioware. It's all over. It'll never be the same again.
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PC gaming re-dead CONfirmed.
 
It sucks but it's a business. They're not trying to only please a little niche of fans who's sole purpose in life is to play a sequel to their favorite game that THEY only like.

Tough luck guys but the type of gamers you represent is close to 1% to the total demographic of game players around the world.

If you're not too narrow-minded, you might find something very pleasant about this sequel, otherwise, it's your loss, not theirs.
 
Sadly I think very few game developers really understand what made Deus Ex tick which is why we haven't gotten another worthy title like it. Bioshock I once hoped would be that sort of title and while I like Bioshock it doesn't have that same appeal.
 
Zeliard said:
We don't want a remake of the original. We want a legitimate sequel. Why is that so hard to grasp?
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You hardly know anything about DX3 -- it's hardly your place to be leveling judgement at it now. Don't you get that?
 
Zilch said:
You hardly know anything about DX3 -- it's hardly your place to be leveling judgement at it now. Don't you get that?
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Go back and read Campster's post. It's fairly obvious, and we've seen examples of it time and time again. Get your head out of the sand.
 
Zeliard said:
Go back and read Campster's post. It's fairly obvious, and we've seen examples of it time and time again. Get your head out of the sand.
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If DX2 would've been made directly after DX1, with the same engine etc, like for example with Gears of War 1 and Gears of War 2, then they would've been largely the same, but with several improvements gameplay and graphics wise. That's why you could see Gears 2 as a true sequel. However, imagine Gears 2 being released at the end of the next generation (Xbox 720, PS4 etc), who knows what they would've done with it just because the new hardware gave them other possible directions. That's exactly what happened with DX:IW and what will happen with DX3, and I mean, can you blame them?
 
Zeliard said:
Go back and read Campster's post. It's fairly obvious, and we've seen examples of it time and time again. Get your head out of the sand.
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Campster isn't developing DX3.
 
i thought the first game was a bit overrated. i'll be keeping an eye on this and seeing how things develop, though, as the game appeals to me on a conceptual level.
 
dark10x said:
While I certainly do not wish to see Deus Ex become an action fest, I do believe it needs seriously improved combat mechanics. As much as I enjoyed the game, it was always poor in those areas. The gunplay was awful and the AI was often attrocious. It was a terrible shooter despite the fact that shooting played a serious role in the game itself.

I would love to see a game with similar pacing as Deus Ex combined with an improved combat system.
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The AI was nothing special, but why does everyone seem to think the gunplay was atrocious? It was a fucking RPG in that you had to develop the skills to use the guns. Max out a silenced pistol and the game was awesome. It wasn't a run and gun, and certainly wasn't a twitch shooter. What did you want? Gears? Deus Ex is not a shooter. Repeat after me: Deus Ex is not a shooter. It only played a major role if you wanted it to. That was the beauty of Deus Ex.
 
I'll reserve judgement on this one, the problem is that I don't think any of the leading lights of Deus Ex 1 are involved in this at all. That didn't help 2 of course, but it's still not a great sign.

What does guy thinks of Deus Ex 2 is the true indicator of whether he get the series or not.
 
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