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[Londa]

thank you. ignoring the last line of your response, you've finally answered me, and that is all i wanted to know.

you couldn't see that anyone would be okay with this, and incorrectly presumed that anyone who hadn't left the thread must be PR or a developer. as someone okay with this (though not supportive of it, just apathetic) who was 'still in the thread' it bothered me to get accused of being PR, when i'm not.

now you've realised your short sightedness (however you want to frame it) and clarified it, i'm good, so i hope you don't mind if i don't follow your advice. all i wanted was a straight answer and i got one.

That doesn't equal me implying people to get out of the thread. You have thin skin and I have a feeling you also take things way too personally. But it's ok, now I know not to pay attention to your dramatics.

All I've been doing is reacting to shitty ads in a game I paid 60 dollars for. If you want to waste your hard earned money on a ad fill game be my guest. Just don't try to shove your thinking onto me.

BTW the last line of my response wasn't advice.

 

[Neuromancer]

Whatever you think, if you don't buy this game, make sure it's for reasons other than this. It's a crying shame that some will happily trade this in or even miss it out upon hearing of this.

I will agree with this. I see no reason why someone can't buy this game (which is truly awesome), and still complain. In fact I think being a paying customer may add legitimacy to your complaints, from SE's point of view.

 

[bishoptl]

BTW the last line of my response wasn't advice.

This is, however.

*ahem*

"Settle down."

 

[Londa]

TBH, I'd buy the game for 9.99 with ads.

This is, however.

*ahem*

"Settle down."

I think he was trying to egg me on. But sure, I have no problem doing that.

 

[Pocketsfriend]

I wonder how long until the snack bars and other foodstuffs are replaced by tasty mars bars and delicious, cold heinekens which is a perfect beverage for any situation you find yourself in.

 

[plagiarize]

*edit*

I think he was trying to egg me on. But sure, I have no problem doing that.

just saw this response... we're cool. consider any hatchet buried. remember that i already acknowledged your actual viewpoint in my last response. i thought you were dodging the questions which made me think that WAS your viewpoint.

it wasn't, but i was asking for clarification on your viewpoint in the first place.

 

[Data West]

Someone with better photoshop skills than me should add a bunch of company logos like AT&T, Burger King a la NASCAR style to Garrett's getup and label it 'Thief 4 concept art'

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I wonder how long until the snack bars and other foodstuffs are replaced by tasty mars bars and delicious, cold heinekens which is a perfect beverage for any situation you find yourself in.

You know in an odd way I wouldn't mind. Look at the bars in Yakuza 3. Yeah, it's advertising, but I liked that they had real drinks available and not just whiskey or beer.

Someone with better photoshop skills than me should add a bunch of company logos like AT&T, Burger King a la NASCAR style to Garrett's getup and label it 'Thief 4 concept art'

Look at Yakuza 3 for a potential model. It's also one I don't even mind.

 

[CabbageRed]

 

[shintoki]

I don't really have a problem with it(If they want to stick an advertisement on a loading screen, it doesn't bother me), but I don't like the idea either. Updating the game and just sticking them in there is low.

 

[Data West]

You know in an odd way I wouldn't mind. Look at the bars in Yakuza 3. Yeah, it's advertising, but I liked that they had real drinks available and not just whiskey or beer.



Look at Yakuza 3 for a potential model. It's also one I don't even mind.

But you could argue that Yakuza adds to the environment. Deus Ex is in the loading screens. It is not an object of the environment that's also advertising which fits into the game. It is them telling you to BUY THIS MOVIE

 

[Londa]

*edit*


just saw this response... we're cool. consider any hatchet buried.

post #543 in this thread is me saying "no" and right after that explaining what I really meant.

 

[plagiarize]

post #543 in this thread is me saying "no" and right after that explaining what I really meant.

yes. that's the post i responded to, saying that i now understood your viewpoint and thanking you for answering my question.

 

[killamockingbrd]

That's disappointing. I'll accept ads in free-to-play games, but not in games I actually paid for.

Those are exactly my thoughts.

 

[Castor Krieg]

If they want to stick ads in the game, they should lower the price, since the game is partly funded by ads revenue. Simple as that.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

But you could argue that Yakuza adds to the environment. Deus Ex is in the loading screens. It is not an object of the environment that's also advertising which fits into the game. It is them telling you to BUY THIS MOVIE

I completely agree, my point was more to say that when it's done logically, I don't mind it. Heck, if a Health Bar company wanted to buy an ad for a mock future energy bar in the game, I wouldn't mind it (if it's something that could logically exist).

I'm a strong believer that real world products, logos, tv stations, countries/agencies, etc, enhance a game if it makes sense with the setting of course. Yes, it's advertising, but it also helps with immersion. For me nothing is worse than a generic Middle Eastern country on a show like 24 or West Wing.

If they want to stick ads in the game, they should lower the price, since the game is partly funded by ads revenue. Simple as that.

They did if you got it from GMG! I think I paid 28 bucks for it! That said being honest about ad 's in game is always the best version. I'd be interested in an ad supported games being sold for cheaper (except with PC games there is a risk people can mod them out) than an ad free one.

 

[FracturedZero]

That Star Wars ad is pretty popular today, I put in Driver:San Francisco(PS3 version) and I am driving around the city and every single billboard was that ad.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Whatever you think, if you don't buy this game, make sure it's for reasons other than this. It's a crying shame that some will happily trade this in or even miss it out upon hearing of this.

I'd advise buying it second hand only. The publisher is obviously still getting paid due to the adverts, making a further monetary contribution unnecessary.

People wouldn't have minded as much if this was made clear pre-release. You might not like it, but the choice is there.

Instead, they've broken down the back gate and smuggled them in with a sheet over the top.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

That Star Wars ad is pretty popular today, I put in Driver:San Francisco(PS3 version) and I am driving around the city and every single billboard was that ad.

See that's what I don't like. You need to have diversity, if you had billboards not repeating till you've already seen 20-30 is fairly realistic. Hell, get some of those FBI Most Wanted in games that I see on the PA Turnpike on digital billboards!

 

[Speedymanic]

If they want to stick ads in the game, they should lower the price, since the game is partly funded by ads revenue. Simple as that.

It makes more sense to sell ad space after your game is out and you have a rough figure of how many people bought the game, that allows them to sell advertising space at a much higher premium than they would if they didn't have those figures.

It would be nice if they money raised from this ad goes towards making the upcoming DLC free/cheaper, but I'd be just as happy if the money was put to use to create a proper expansion DLC or something more substantial.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I'd advise buying it second hand only. The publisher is obviously still getting paid due to the adverts, making a further monetary contribution unnecessary.

You do understand that online (or ingame) ads sell for a fraction of what print price ads go for right? I understand your point, but I can't imagine the revenue generated is as much as many suspect (which of course brings up the question of why do it in the first place this way unless you are bringing in a lot of money). Though I could see the thought is clean up now and then pledge to not do it again, though that's some dumbass short term thinking for SquareEnix.

I'll be honest I think it's unfair to the dev's for them to be punished for something like this, which isn't in game, doesn't tax resources or increase load time, and really isn't that large. I don't mean this to say people shouldn't complain or demand it not occur again.

That said how many games currently have real world advertising in them? Even if people don't know the numbers, can some give some examples (I know Driver was mentioned). I seem to recall EA being the pioneer for this, Obama had ads in some EA Game.

 

[plagiarize]

If they want to stick ads in the game, they should lower the price, since the game is partly funded by ads revenue. Simple as that.

the game doesn't pose any reduced value to me now that it has small adverts on the loading screen. the amount of fun it provides, and the amount of content it provides hasn't changed.

'smuggling it in the back door' is a bit underhand, but this hasn't replaced anything, or removed anything. value just doesn't work that way for most.

 

[plagiarize]

You do understand that online (or ingame) ads sell for a fraction of what print price ads go for right? I understand your point, but I can't imagine the revenue generated is as much as many suspect (which of course brings up the question of why do it in the first place this way unless you are bringing in a lot of money). Though I could see the thought is clean up now and then pledge to not do it again, though that's some dumbass short term thinking for SquareEnix.

I'll be honest I think it's unfair to the dev's for them to be punished for something like this, which isn't in game, doesn't tax resources or increase load time, and really isn't that large. I don't mean this to say people shouldn't complain or demand it not occur again.

That said how many games currently have real world advertising in them? Even if people don't know the numbers, can some give some examples (I know Driver was mentioned). I seem to recall EA being the pioneer for this, Obama had ads in some EA Game.

it goes WAAAAAY back. Zool had Chupa Chups in it. that was 1992. i'm sure there's earlier examples than that.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

You do understand that online (or ingame) ads sell for a fraction of what print price ads go for right? I understand your point, but I can't imagine the revenue generated is as much as many suspect (which of course brings up the question of why do it in the first place this way unless you are bringing in a lot of money). Though I could see the thought is clean up now and then pledge to not do it again, though that's some dumbass short term thinking for SquareEnix.

I'll be honest I think it's unfair to the dev's for them to be punished for something like this, which isn't in game, doesn't tax resources or increase load time, and really isn't that large. I don't mean this to say people shouldn't complain or demand it not occur again.

That said how many games currently have real world advertising in them? Even if people don't know the numbers, can some give some examples (I know Driver was mentioned). I seem to recall EA being the pioneer for this, Obama had ads in some EA Game.

I think the way that it has been done is sneaky. That's the real problem I have - I don't seriously think it should be free; nor do I entirely object to relevant ads in certain games under certain circumstances. I do, however, think that Square have erred badly in this instance. The ads were surreptitiously added, and are both inconsistent and intrusive.

 

[Neuromancer]

You do understand that online (or ingame) ads sell for a fraction of what print price ads go for right? I understand your point, but I can't imagine the revenue generated is as much as many suspect (which of course brings up the question of why do it in the first place this way unless you are bringing in a lot of money). Though I could see the thought is clean up now and then pledge to not do it again, though that's some dumbass short term thinking for SquareEnix.

I'll be honest I think it's unfair to the dev's for them to be punished for something like this, which isn't in game, doesn't tax resources or increase load time, and really isn't that large. I don't mean this to say people shouldn't complain or demand it not occur again.

That said how many games currently have real world advertising in them? Even if people don't know the numbers, can some give some examples (I know Driver was mentioned). I seem to recall EA being the pioneer for this, Obama had ads in some EA Game.

Crackdown was the first I remember this gen, I think those were patched in too after the fact (they had some kind of car ad).

Strangely enough I didn't mind ad billboards in Saints Row 2, in fact there were some kind of funny and fitting ones (like Bing ads where the search text was for tattoos.)

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

again, there are reports of the ads being IN the ENVIRONMENTS. not JUST the loading screens. ie: a guy said that a billboard in detroit was a current-day mcdonalds ad for chicken nuggets instead of whatever fictional future company that was supposed to be there.

also: it bears repeating that this was not patched in, it shipped with the game and was only recently "activated".

 

[Wolfe]

*shrug*

If it puts more money in the hands of the publishers, I don't give a shit about a small box in the corner of a loading screen.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Castor Krieg]

the game doesn't pose any reduced value to me now that it has small adverts on the loading screen. the amount of fun it provides, and the amount of content it provides hasn't changed.

'smuggling it in the back door' is a bit underhand, but this hasn't replaced anything, or removed anything. value just doesn't work that way for most.

Would you like to buy a car only to discover a month later that every few hours it plays "get the best gas at your nearby BP station!"? The "content" the car provides didn't change - it still has the same features it had before!

 

[Speedymanic]

again, there are reports of the ads being IN the ENVIRONMENTS. not JUST the loading screens. ie: a guy said that a billboard in detroit was a current-day mcdonalds ad for chicken nuggets instead of whatever fictional future company that was supposed to be there.

also: it bears repeating that this was not patched in, it shipped with the game and was only recently "activated".

I'd take these reports with a huge pinch of salt until there are pics.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

again, there are reports of the ads being IN the ENVIRONMENTS. not JUST the loading screens. ie: a guy said that a billboard in detroit was a current-day mcdonalds ad for chicken nuggets instead of whatever fictional future company that was supposed to be there.
.

Oh dear.

If they're going to add product placement for real life brands in a futuristic / fantasy environment, at least strike a deal which leaves room for imagination. McDonalds, Coca-Cola etcetera will all be around at the point in the future Deus Ex takes place, so just advertise the brands in a way consonant to the setting.

 

[plagiarize]

Would you like to buy a car only to discover a month later that every few hours it plays "get the best gas at your nearby BP station!"? The "content" the car provides didn't change - it still has the same features it had before!

that isn't equivalent to me. load screens are annoying intermissions already. the equivalent to me would be if every few hours my car played some annoying tune, and after a month that annoying noise turns into an annoying advertising jingle.

again, i'm only speaking personally. i don't care *what* is on a load screen. the game already had advertising anyway, on PC at least. starts with a great big advert for AMD Radeon graphics. that doesn't bother me either. shrug.

Oh dear.

If they're going to add product placement for real life brands in a futuristic / fantasy environment, at least strike a deal which leaves room for imagination. McDonalds, Coca-Cola etcetera will all be around at the point in the future Deus Ex takes place, so just advertise the brands in a way consonant to the setting.

agreed. that sort of stuff is fondly remembered from BTTF2, rather than hated as being conspicuous product placement.

 

[DTKT]

http://blog.gib.me/2011/08/23/deus-ex-human-revolution-no-ads/

Seems to be a mod to disable the ads. No idea if it's VAC bannable though.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

it goes WAAAAAY back. Zool had Chupa Chups in it. that was 1992. i'm sure there's earlier examples than that.

Interesting, thanks.

I think the way that it has been done is sneaky. That's the real problem I have - I don't seriously think it should be free; nor do I entirely object to relevant ads in certain games under certain circumstances. I do, however, think that Square have erred badly in this instance. The ads were surreptitiously added, and are both inconsistent and intrusive.

I agree, the PR and method of doing this was horrid.

Crackdown was the first I remember this gen, I think those were patched in too after the fact (they had some kind of car ad).

Strangely enough I didn't mind ad billboards in Saints Row 2, in fact there were some kind of funny and fitting ones (like Bing ads where the search text was for tattoos.)

See that's what I go back to when I say I don't mind branding or in games products if done well. Honestly, it's better than a simple ad on a screen and it can help immersion too.

http://blog.gib.me/2011/08/23/deus-ex-human-revolution-no-ads/

Seems to be a mod to disable the ads. No idea if it's VAC bannable though.

How could it be, there is no MP component to DX HR.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Oh dear.

If they're going to add product placement for real life brands in a futuristic / fantasy environment, at least strike a deal which leaves room for imagination. McDonalds, Coca-Cola etcetera will all be around at the point in the future Deus Ex takes place, so just advertise the brands in a way consonant to the setting.

I think this is the proper way to do in game ads. I think Yakuza 3 and the bar is a great example of how to do this type of marketing.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

I'd take these reports with a huge pinch of salt until there are pics.

currently all we know is that only US users are reporting it, and it's on consoles AND PC. you can go to the official forums to check on what people have been reporting, as it's continuously updated.

the mcdonalds ad was reported by someone previewing the game. it was in australia, apparently, and that's how the ad was identified as being absolutely modern and current-day because it was the australian-specific ad that was currently being ran for nuggets. this was actually reported a long time ago, as in like MAY. how that stayed under the radar until now is a mystery, if it's even true at all. it also mentioned it being on loading screens too, matching up with what we're seeing now.

regardless, it doesn't change the fact that consumers weren't told they would be buying an ad-supported product, and that after paying (full price) the quality of the game was downgraded by in-game ads being activated. i don't care if it's on a loading screen, if i don't want things being advertised to me that's my business, and i should be able to opt out of it at any time. same as spam in my email, same as junk mail, and same as do not call lists. this should be a fundamental right of any citizen living in modern society.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'd take these reports with a huge pinch of salt until there are pics.

Yeah I agree although at this point I wouldn't be surprised if that was true, too.

 

[Castor Krieg]

Checked Detroid in German version. No loading screen ads, all in-game posters are the same as before.

 

[Dead Prince]

i don't mind the ads if it's in the road screen. it's not like i'm doing anything there anyways.

 

[Sullichin]

I'd take these reports with a huge pinch of salt until there are pics.

yeah.. is there ANY proof of this? This would actually suck. Ads in the loading screen isn't a good thing but not that big of a deal compared to something like replacing actual art assets in an otherwise fully realized FICTIONAL world with a fucking mcdonalds ad.

 

[ROBOKITTYZILLA]

Nooooooo keep it away! Fucking horrible. Oh well, it will probably be patched out by the community by the time I get around to playing again anyway.

 

[plagiarize]

currently all we know is that only US users are reporting it, and it's on consoles AND PC. you can go to the official forums to check on what people have been reporting, as it's continuously updated.

the mcdonalds ad was reported by someone previewing the game. it was in australia, apparently, and that's how the ad was identified as being absolutely modern and current-day because it was the australian-specific ad that was currently being ran for nuggets. this was actually reported a long time ago, as in like MAY. how that stayed under the radar until now is a mystery, if it's even true at all. it also mentioned it being on loading screens too, matching up with what we're seeing now.

regardless, it doesn't change the fact that consumers weren't told they would be buying an ad-supported product, and that after paying (full price) the quality of the game was downgraded by in-game ads being activated. i don't care if it's on a loading screen, if i don't want things being advertised to me that's my business, and i should be able to opt out of it at any time. same as spam in my email, same as junk mail, and same as do not call lists. this should be a fundamental right of any citizen living in modern society.

well, the specifics of this not being well known before release aside (and if they were demonstrating it with the adverts on at some point, it's probably enough for them to get away with it, at least from a legal perspective) this isn't like being spammed, or called, or mailed. this is like buying a magazine, or a film. it's something you choose to buy and view, not someone calling you on the phone...

but i do agree that things like this shouldn't be activated after the fact, because some people wouldn't have bought it knowing they were in place, and even if it was shown off enough from a legal perspective, i think proper disclosure is fair to give us the choice of whether to buy product A or product B.

 

[plagiarize]

yeah.. is there ANY proof of this? This would actually suck. Ads in the loading screen isn't a good thing but not that big of a deal compared to something like replacing actual art assets in an otherwise fully realized FICTIONAL world with a fucking mcdonalds ad.

well, speaking of a McDonalds ad, if it was some tongue in cheek fun futuristic McDonalds ad instead of a modern day one being anachronistic (as may be the case), that'd fit with the universe quite well, just as jokes about Final Fantasy and Robocop did.

 

[Speedymanic]

currently all we know is that only US users are reporting it, and it's on consoles AND PC. you can go to the official forums to check on what people have been reporting, as it's continuously updated.

the mcdonalds ad was reported by someone previewing the game. it was in australia, apparently, and that's how the ad was identified as being absolutely modern and current-day because it was the australian-specific ad that was currently being ran for nuggets. this was actually reported a long time ago, as in like MAY. how that stayed under the radar until now is a mystery, if it's even true at all. it also mentioned it being on loading screens too, matching up with what we're seeing now.

I really hope this isn't true. I'll half-hearted defend the use of the SW ad, but using McD ads and not updating them is completely unacceptable...if it's true, of course.

Yeah I agree although at this point I wouldn't be surprised if that was true, too.

I'm hoping it's not. The SW ad, while annoying, isn't as intrusive as removing the fictional ads in the game and replacing them with the latest McDonald's promotion or whatever the hell this purported ad was advertising.

 

[Uno Venova]

currently all we know is that only US users are reporting it, and it's on consoles AND PC. you can go to the official forums to check on what people have been reporting, as it's continuously updated.

the mcdonalds ad was reported by someone previewing the game. it was in australia, apparently, and that's how the ad was identified as being absolutely modern and current-day because it was the australian-specific ad that was currently being ran for nuggets. this was actually reported a long time ago, as in like MAY. how that stayed under the radar until now is a mystery, if it's even true at all. it also mentioned it being on loading screens too, matching up with what we're seeing now.

regardless, it doesn't change the fact that consumers weren't told they would be buying an ad-supported product, and that after paying (full price) the quality of the game was downgraded by in-game ads being activated. i don't care if it's on a loading screen, if i don't want things being advertised to me that's my business, and i should be able to opt out of it at any time. same as spam in my email, same as junk mail, and same as do not call lists. this should be a fundamental right of any citizen living in modern society.

You got link to the forums. The shit these devs/publishers are doing is blowing my mind right now.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

well, the specifics of this not being well known before release aside (and if they were demonstrating it with the adverts on at some point, it's probably enough for them to get away with it, at least from a legal perspective) this isn't like being spammed, or called, or mailed. this is like buying a magazine, or a film. it's something you choose to buy and view, not someone calling you on the phone...

but i do agree that things like this shouldn't be activated after the fact, because some people wouldn't have bought it knowing they were in place, and even if it was shown off enough from a legal perspective, i think proper disclosure is fair to give us the choice of whether to buy product A or product B.

chose to buy and view, but without being told ads would be a part of the experience? as i said, soliciting of any kind should always be disclosed and able to be opted out of. period.

yeah, and you know, im sure there just wasn't anything in particular they had to advertise at the launch of the game too or else we would have seen this earlier on. i wonder if the game was even phoning home at all, because surely someone would have been like 'hey there's this connection going on in the background wtf'.

one thing that upsets me about this is that it seems like this is how things always go. option A = free and there are ads, and option B = pay for it but no ads. then suddenly option B also has ads with hardly any other benefit, and there aren't any no-ads options anymore. that's how hulu was, and how a lot of different pay sites for various things have been. (or another example being 'registered users don't have ads on the site' but then eventually they make all users deal with ads)

it's inevitable and needs to be stopped. that's why i think there should be legislation against it but im sure if obama were to sign off on it everyone would scream and cry at him for killing jobs or something...

EDIT: here's the link to the first page of the main thread about the ads. the mods keep closing dupes and angry posts. luckily the mods, that work for eidos, are at least on our side about things: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=117716

 

[Uno Venova]

EDIT: here's the link to the first page of the main thread about the ads. the mods keep closing dupes and angry posts. luckily the mods, that work for eidos, are at least on our side about things: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=117716

It's a shame I bought this game new from TRU, if this news came out 3 days ago I would have been happy to buy their game used or rent it, can't support this mess.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Thank god this isn't in Europe.

 

[Speedymanic]

While I haven't read the entire thread linked to by Commanche Raisin Toast, the reports of there being McDonalds ads seem to be false.

There's simply no evidence of them being in the game apart from one guy claiming he saw them but wasn't able to get a pic, he then goes on claim he saw an ad for Adidas but also failed to grab a pic.

 

[Eusis]

Eidos is a dirty company.

Never forget Gerstmanngate. Never forget.

Given they were gobbled by SE we may actually be able to let it go (on their end, not GameSpot's), depending on what staff was thrown out. Of course, SE's shown they're not above product placement by putting a real world phone into Advent Children and advertising this fact, so it may just be new assholes replacing old assholes.

And the fact this stops downloading for the PS3/360 may be the bigger deal. In the long run I'd probably adapt to a little image in the corner, but I'd HATE to have my system's functionality undermined for the sake of ads, not even drop in multiplayer or anything.

 

[chaostrophy]

I think this is the proper way to do in game ads. I think Yakuza 3 and the bar is a great example of how to do this type of marketing.

All the brands in the Yakuza games do add to the immersion...but does anyone know if they're actual advertising, as in Suntory etc. paid Sega to put them in the game? Seems just as likely to me that Nagoshi wanted brands to add to the atmosphere of the game even if they weren't getting paid to include them.

If they were ads I wonder if they caused any issues when the game was localized to the West where many of those Japanese products are not on the market. The last thing I'd want to see in future Yakuza games is the brands/stores changed to US equivalents during localization to bring in more ad revenue...