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[DF] Hitman 3 PS5 vs Xbox Series X|S Comparison

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Maybe the CUs are not RDNA2 ones. But then again Cerny did say they were RDNA2 CUs so I'm confused.
They are RDNA 2; the resolution difference is probably because Series X literally has 44% more physical CUs in its GPU design, and those are being leveraged here.

The counter-argument to that is, PS5's CUs run faster, and to match a workload running all of PS5's CUs at max clocks on XSX, you'd need to saturate 44 of its CUs. But that doesn't (on paper) leave enough headroom for a 44% difference in resolution. So either the Series X version is leveraging some "full RDNA 2" features that aren't on PS5 or don't have equivalents there, or the game isn't running at full GPU clock on PS5.

If the latter, and it's a PS5 native port (as IO's confirmed), then I really can't explain why that'd be the case since the PS5's designed to run all code at the peak clock and downgrade when it's stressed. So the only other explanation from there is that Hitman 3 is stressing the system to a point where it's dropping the frequency well below 2.23 GHz on the GPU, to a point where a 44% resolution difference is manifesting.

Should stress that "stressing" the GPU doesn't necessarily mean pushing it to its limits; the game could be neglecting certain features of PS5's GPU but pushing a big workload on other parts of the GPU, so full GPU resources may not be getting utilized hence the results we see in resolution. So it could be a case they are utilizing some features on Microsoft's end but not Sony's, for whatever given reason. That one is a tad difficult to buy given how easy Sony's made PS5 development, but it could technically be a possibility, if IO Interactive wanted to aim for relative parity in framerate and the game has an engine that's more naturally suited to Series X's GPU setup, requiring a bit more work than desired to optimize for PS5 than the team was willing to do with the time provided.

Or, just maybe, the game really does offer best results on PS5 for constant 60 @ 1800p and lower shadow quality, despite optimizations, and they basically saw they could do the same on Series X but with 44% more pixel resolution (and a very small frame drop worth the tradeoffs). Anyway we'll see more for certain what's what when a patch inevitably comes around in a few weeks.

It's VR. That's why I'm laughing. We all known this since launch. Games that have VR don't h it native 4K. Look at the other games with VR they always run worse. As soon as there's no VR the ps5 runs at higher res and frame rate.

Hitman 3 has a native-built PS5 version and that's the one DF were testing. PS4 version is the one with VR support.
 
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Need to just chime in, that the sort of foliage geometry, where there are individual flowers or grass rendered one-by-one this creates an issue with Direct X, because it's inherent issues with so called draw calls, this is well know/documented phenomena and this is the scenario, where always playstation due to it's low level API going to have an upper hand. So I don't believe it's a bug and unless they do tricks like render whole field as a one object, i can see this being improved. But you cannot do it, because then the physics would be extremely complex to pull it out.
Why not drop as many frames on PC then?
 
But since it's been said 5000 times I'm pretty sure it doesn't need to be said 75 times a comparison thread.

I'm pretty sure we heard more then 5000 times how much the XSX would fuck the PS5 on all sides, how underperformed it was already before release, how large the gap would be visible from the start, how cringe MS messages was on social to convince people constantly that the XSX is the best console without any games and even struggles with their own game for launch.

Yes people laughed at Microsoft after launch and they deserved it. Look at how quiet they are right now with their "Power" narrative. Their message was clear, but they didn't deliver (and still not doing it). Only Sony knows how they need to market these kind of things and Microsoft clearly failed again with their messaging and their fanbase was completely brainwashed.

And no, the tables are not suddenly turned based on 1 game. How do you explain all the other previous games, why performed the XSX a lot less with them?
 
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Why not drop as many frames on PC then?
Raw power, there is a memory contrains on consoles by the shared memory pool, because of all that latency stuff, if you have completely separate pools. Mainly latency stuff, because on PC you have that general purpose memory pool, to do all that physics, sound, etc and pool just for GPU operation, you are saving quite a bit wasted cycles.
 
I'm pretty sure we heard more then 5000 times how much the XSX would fuck the PS5 on all sides, how underperformed it was already before release, how large the gap would be visible from the start, how cringe MS messages was on social to convince people constantly that the XSX is the best console without any games and even struggles with their own game for launch.

Yes people laughed at Microsoft after launch and they deserved it. Look at how quiet they are right now with their "Power" narrative. Their message was clear, but they didn't deliver (and still not doing it). Only Sony knows how they need to market these kind of things and Microsoft clearly failed again with their messaging and their fanbase was completely brainwashed.

And no, the tables are not suddenly turned based on 1 game. How do you explain all the other previous games, why performed the XSX a lot less with them?
Jimmy being an idiot doesn't give Bimmy an excuse to be an idiot.
Raw power, there is a memory contrains on consoles by the shared memory pool, because of all that latency stuff, if you have completely separate pools. Mainly latency stuff, because on PC you have that general purpose memory pool, to do all that physics, sound, etc and pool just for GPU operation, you are saving quite a bit wasted cycles.
Even on shitty computers though. Biggest drop is always start of the level on the hill.
 
Need to just chime in, that the sort of foliage geometry, where there are individual flowers or grass rendered one-by-one this creates an issue with Direct X, because it's inherent issues with so called draw calls, this is well know/documented phenomena and this is the scenario, where always playstation due to it's low level API going to have an upper hand. So I don't believe it's a bug and unless they do tricks like render whole field as a one object, i can see this being improved. But you cannot do it, because then the physics would be extremely complex to pull it out.
Thanks for clearing it up.

One question though, this isnt exactly an issue in other games with foliage like AC Valhalla and particle heavy games like CoD on the xsx, so could this just be an issue with Hitman's engine not being particularly apt at handling these graphical effects? After all, it's not like they have a lot of foliage heavy scenes in the games. It's mostly urban settings with a focus on massive NPC counts and static environments.

I guess since AC Valhalla and CoD are both using dynamic resolution we wont ever know how much going into foliage or shootouts affect the resolution. IIRC, the torch scene in AC Valhalla caused the framerate to drop to 46, but I dont know enough to say if that qualifies as a particle heavy graphics effect.
 
I want to kmow what happened to PS5 SSD advantage? 2x faster than SX SSD but only 2-3 secs in loadtimes.

So far it has been a big failure and IMO the most disappointing part of PS5.




In the presentation SSD, i/o complex was talked about a lot as a game changer feature. I wonder how long we have to wait for it.
 
Blue flower is tiny area in the level. Frame rate is 60 most of the time in that level once you not hiding in flowers




And PS5 drops frame rate too in Dubai level



3:26 mark.


Levels are massive, so u can't analyse every area



Not trying to defend PS5 version or look like a SONY fanboy (I actually think the Series X version is better at 4K with very minor dips), but the tools used on that video are way worse than those used by DF, VGTech or NXGamer. Basically it stops measuring frames each time the camera stops moving, it needs permanent movement to be able to count the frames. If you stop the camera for even a fraction of a second it'll tell you the game is dropping frames, even if it isn't.

Un fact you can see the PS5 reaching Rock solid 0 fps. I insist, ZERO fps.


orcJIm4.jpg
 
They are RDNA 2; the resolution difference is probably because Series X literally has 44% more physical CUs in its GPU design, and those are being leveraged here.

The counter-argument to that is, PS5's CUs run faster, and to match a workload running all of PS5's CUs at max clocks on XSX, you'd need to saturate 44 of its CUs. But that doesn't (on paper) leave enough headroom for a 44% difference in resolution. So either the Series X version is leveraging some "full RDNA 2" features that aren't on PS5 or don't have equivalents there, or the game isn't running at full GPU clock on PS5.

If the latter, and it's a PS5 native port (as IO's confirmed), then I really can't explain why that'd be the case since the PS5's designed to run all code at the peak clock and downgrade when it's stressed. So the only other explanation from there is that Hitman 3 is stressing the system to a point where it's dropping the frequency well below 2.23 GHz on the GPU, to a point where a 44% resolution difference is manifesting.

Should stress that "stressing" the GPU doesn't necessarily mean pushing it to its limits; the game could be neglecting certain features of PS5's GPU but pushing a big workload on other parts of the GPU, so full GPU resources may not be getting utilized hence the results we see in resolution. So it could be a case they are utilizing some features on Microsoft's end but not Sony's, for whatever given reason. That one is a tad difficult to buy given how easy Sony's made PS5 development, but it could technically be a possibility, if IO Interactive wanted to aim for relative parity in framerate and the game has an engine that's more naturally suited to Series X's GPU setup, requiring a bit more work than desired to optimize for PS5 than the team was willing to do with the time provided.

Or, just maybe, the game really does offer best results on PS5 for constant 60 @ 1800p and lower shadow quality, despite optimizations, and they basically saw they could do the same on Series X but with 44% more pixel resolution (and a very small frame drop worth the tradeoffs). Anyway we'll see more for certain what's what when a patch inevitably comes around in a few weeks.



Hitman 3 has a native-built PS5 version and that's the one DF were testing. PS4 version is the one with VR support.
Oh God Lord here we go with the full Of RDNA2 bullshit. Ps5 underperform in this game, could happen as the contrary. I don't know how someone can think a game which can at ultra setting in 4k in a 2070 can't handle high resolution of shadow. Jesus people uses your mind a bit.
 
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So far it has been a big failure and IMO the most disappointing part of PS5.




In the presentation SSD, i/o complex was talked about a lot as a game changer feature. I wonder how long we have to wait for it.


The first party games have shown that it is indeed blazing fast. Even the XSX should do better with the SSD, but that one also not showing it in MP games.

Miles Morales, Spiderman remasterd, Sackboy, Astro Playroom, Demon Souls. Even some other third party games are showing it already....nothing to downplay here.
 
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Finally started playing Hitman 2 on the PS4, which I really like, and already finding I can't download any of the other missions on the Playstation Store....can someone fill me in on this shenanigans?
Find the link to download them in the game, it locks you out from buying it straight from the store for whatever reason (guessing due to the number of downloads the game has they didn't want people ending up accidentally buying DLC for a game they don't own).
 
Thanks for clearing it up.

One question though, this isnt exactly an issue in other games with foliage like AC Valhalla and particle heavy games like CoD on the xsx, so could this just be an issue with Hitman's engine not being particularly apt at handling these graphical effects? After all, it's not like they have a lot of foliage heavy scenes in the games. It's mostly urban settings with a focus on massive NPC counts and static environments.

I guess since AC Valhalla and CoD are both using dynamic resolution we wont ever know how much going into foliage or shootouts affect the resolution. IIRC, the torch scene in AC Valhalla caused the framerate to drop to 46, but I dont know enough to say if that qualifies as a particle heavy graphics effect.
If you remember PS5 have higher foliage density than any other platform, above Ultra on PC, because this sort of thing is virtually free (just need to have a budget for rendering that mesh). Obviously a lot of grass is completely same, so you basically can just do duplication in memory on PS5 without an issue. This is something which I gathered when I was in Warhorse, because KC: D have a lot of foliage, which proved to be really easy on PS4, but pretty hard on DX rendered, so you basically have meshes which contains grass for let's say 1x1m in one mesh and than the whole mesh is animated like a group, which is nice for "static" entity, however if you want some interaction from the player with this approach, you are screwed, so this is why many grass meshes cannot be squished by walking on them. This is mostly memory bound thing,

So in the case of Hitman, that levander can be interacting by player, walking and physically interacting with those flowers, that's why the approach one by one is needed, because if you would like to do this by whole mesh when it would be 100 of such flowers, you would maxed out the CPU, just by collision detection, which is first issue, second one would be how to detect interaction with just one/two/three flowers which would then have to be animated to go aside when you walk next to them, you would have to have mesh for every ocassion and that's unrealistic. You can do this in a fancy way, that basically you render batches of such flowers, and after that you detect player position and when character arrives at said mesh, you then swap the whole mesh, by flowers rendered 1-by-1, however this adds a massive complexity to the scene and leads to bugs, that basically nobody is doing it like that.

Hopefully this kind of sheds lights on that.
 
So far it has been a big failure and IMO the most disappointing part of PS5.




In the presentation SSD, i/o complex was talked about a lot as a game changer feature. I wonder how long we have to wait for it.


I guess Ratchet, Horizon, God of War, just to start with. I don't think 3rd party games will ever take full advantage of it, not even close.
 
The big difference is on PS5 it's locked 60 FPS. On XSX it drops frames. XSX would do well to drop the res at least to keep it more stable.
 
Anyway a single which perform marginally better in resolution on series X it's already statistics. At least let's wait a bit. We don't know already.the full of picture. But I blame DF. This fucking site is really toxing when such things happen.
 
So far it has been a big failure and IMO the most disappointing part of PS5.




In the presentation SSD, i/o complex was talked about a lot as a game changer feature. I wonder how long we have to wait for it.

Wut?

PS5 loading times are in 2s for games made for it.
PS5 delivered what they promised since launch.
 
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If you remember PS5 have higher foliage density than any other platform, above Ultra on PC, because this sort of thing is virtually free (just need to have a budget for rendering that mesh). Obviously a lot of grass is completely same, so you basically can just do duplication in memory on PS5 without an issue. This is something which I gathered when I was in Warhorse, because KC: D have a lot of foliage, which proved to be really easy on PS4, but pretty hard on DX rendered, so you basically have meshes which contains grass for let's say 1x1m in one mesh and than the whole mesh is animated like a group, which is nice for "static" entity, however if you want some interaction from the player with this approach, you are screwed, so this is why many grass meshes cannot be squished by walking on them. This is mostly memory bound thing,

So in the case of Hitman, that levander can be interacting by player, walking and physically interacting with those flowers, that's why the approach one by one is needed, because if you would like to do this by whole mesh when it would be 100 of such flowers, you would maxed out the CPU, just by collision detection, which is first issue, second one would be how to detect interaction with just one/two/three flowers which would then have to be animated to go aside when you walk next to them, you would have to have mesh for every ocassion and that's unrealistic. You can do this in a fancy way, that basically you render batches of such flowers, and after that you detect player position and when character arrives at said mesh, you then swap the whole mesh, by flowers rendered 1-by-1, however this adds a massive complexity to the scene and leads to bugs, that basically nobody is doing it like that.

Hopefully this kind of sheds lights on that.
Isn't this fps drop entirely because of the shadow detail being significantly lower and less required to cast shadows at medium settings.

Here is the snapshot of the XSX FPS drop. Look at the shadow detail. Think of the impact of casting the individual shadow details on the left vs the right.

aD13zxn.jpg


D3kc1GT.gif
 
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it is not completely locked for PS5 and the dips are rare on XSX
Look at the video before replying. 99% of the PS5 is stable meanwhile XSX drops frames constantly. The lighting is also off on the XSX.

Isn't this fps drop entirely because of the shadow detail being significantly lower and less required to cast shadows at medium settings.

Here is the snapshot of the XSX FPS drop. Look at the shadow detail. Think of the impact of casting the individual shadow details on the left vs the right.

aD13zxn.jpg


D3kc1GT.gif
Yes, it's called optimization. Doesn't appear to be the case for XSX. They went for big numbers and less optimization. The game is going to feel like shit playing it with so many big frame dips.
 
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Blue flower is tiny area in the level. Frame rate is 60 most of the time in that level once you not hiding in flowers




And PS5 drops frame rate too in Dubai level



3:26 mark.


Levels are massive, so u can't analyse every area

I can't even see the framerate dropping or any hitching when looking at the animations of things in the background... pretty sure this is fake
 
Isn't this fps drop entirely because of the shadow detail being significantly lower and less required to cast shadows at medium settings.

Here is the snapshot of the XSX FPS drop. Look at the shadow detail. Think of the impact of casting the individual shadow details on the left vs the right.

aD13zxn.jpg


D3kc1GT.gif
That's complete separate thing, I am not sure how to explain it better, however the engine would tank FPS, even before you would render anything on the screen, just the calls for draw that many separate entities requires a lot of latency and bandwidth issue, before you even see the picture.
 
Look at the video before replying. 99% of the PS5 is stable meanwhile XSX drops frames constantly. The lighting is also off on the XSX.

Look at my post before yours. Lower res and lower shadows is incredibly less taxing that scene. XSX only drops frames in that one level in that area.

How can you try and claim they are comparable when you are running the same scene at lower res and significantly lower shadows.
 
Anyway a single which perform marginally better in resolution on series X it's already statistics. At least let's wait a bit. We don't know already.the full of picture. But I blame DF. This fucking site is really toxing when such things happen.
But not toxic when the Sony fanboys are swinging their dicks or talking about bottlenecks, and repeating nonsense from other know-nothing fanboys?

Are DF too blame also?
 
Look at my post before yours. Lower res and lower shadows is incredibly less taxing that scene. XSX only drops frames in that one level in that area.

How can you try and claim they are comparable when you are running the same scene at lower res and significantly lower shadows.
Medium shadow are significantly lower now?
 
But not toxic when the Sony fanboys are swinging their dicks or talking about bottlenecks, and repeating nonsense from other know-nothing fanboys?

Are DF too blame also?
Uh and why DF doesn't ask to himself why there is such delta in resolution when it's NEVER happened before and put in the title a bolded an Xbox 4k advantage. Think about it for a second. Where is all their professionalism? They even care to understand why, ps5 it's just weaker and let's rejoy finally series X destroy the ps5. Although ps5 runs infinitely better a game more demanding as Valhalla.
 
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Look at the video before replying. 99% of the PS5 is stable meanwhile XSX drops frames constantly. The lighting is also off on the XSX.


Yes, it's called optimization. Doesn't appear to be the case for XSX. They went for big numbers and less optimization. The game is going to feel like shit playing it with so many big frame dips.

So the goalposts are now that the PS5 is more optimized and went for lower res and shadow details so that's why its more powerful?
 
Anyway a single which perform marginally better in resolution on series X it's already statistics. At least let's wait a bit. We don't know already.the full of picture. But I blame DF. This fucking site is really toxing when such things happen.

44% is now "marginally better", I'll let my boss know that a 44% pay increase is only really marginal.
 
Find the link to download them in the game, it locks you out from buying it straight from the store for whatever reason (guessing due to the number of downloads the game has they didn't want people ending up accidentally buying DLC for a game they don't own).

I've tried both ways, in game and via the store. I guess I'm SOL unless I buy whatever version has everything included.
 
Uh and why DF doesn't ask to himself why there is such delta in resolution when it's NEVER happened before and put in the title a bolded an Xbox 4k advantage. Think about it for a second. Where is all their professionalism? They even care to understand why, ps5 it's just weaker although runs infinitely better game more demanding as Valhalla. This is not exactly fair.
What I think is that DF have to play it cool with the devs/pubs, and pretend to be shocked at the results, instead of outright saying that the game was rushed and needed longer in the oven. Dirt 5 should have been delayed.

Where as here, we have a game that falls into what was expected. Also, Dictator said on ree, that he had heard that Microsoft had updated their..... tools lol

Seriously, Hitman has had longer in the oven than assassins creed and all the other rushed to launch games. And it would seem that the results speak for themselves. But, I still think that some games will favour the ps5, and some the XSX going forward.
 
Look at the video before replying. 99% of the PS5 is stable meanwhile XSX drops frames constantly. The lighting is also off on the XSX.


Yes, it's called optimization. Doesn't appear to be the case for XSX. They went for big numbers and less optimization. The game is going to feel like shit playing it with so many big frame dips.
So many? Hahaha fuck you are trying way to hard. Grow up and stop making shit up to feel better about a console.
Medium shadow are significantly lower now?
Yes look at them. The ps5s shadows look like shit.
 
Well if only some 20 games are going to take advantage of it the whole gen? I am not sure it was worth it.
Games and engines made for PS5 will take advantage.
Cross-gem games and engines not.

Let's see how Unreal Engine 5 delivery in load times ;)
 
PS5 could also drop frames, yes, but they already saw the SX drop down to low 40s in an area where the PS5 held up to 60 just fine. The Series X version is more likely to drop frames.
Mid 50's you mean, the low 40's was for a split second when he zoomed in with the snipler rifle, which he also did 2 more times as well at it dropped to 59 on both. Lets stop with hyperbole.
Also each level is available to play from the start, and takes about 4 or 5 mins to run through each area of the map, so yes they probably have played through the whole game. This isnt a 20 hour start to end game.
 
Look at the video before replying. 99% of the PS5 is stable meanwhile XSX drops frames constantly. The lighting is also off on the XSX.


Yes, it's called optimization. Doesn't appear to be the case for XSX. They went for big numbers and less optimization. The game is going to feel like shit playing it with so many big frame dips.

That one area in the whole game?

Can you imagine how bad PS5 performance was at high settings at 4k?
 
I'd take 4K maxed out settings at 30fps, I couldn't give a shit about 60fps in a 3rd person game.
That one area in the whole game?

Can you imagine how bad PS5 performance was at high settings at 4k?
That they tested, we don't know if that's the only part of the game it drops like that. I doubt they played the full game on all of the systems.
 
Games and engines made for PS5 will take advantage.
Cross-gem games and engines not.

Let's see how Unreal Engine 5 delivery in load times ;)
Hold on, you was one of the bottlenecked system advocates. Is it the split l3 cache, too many CUs, not clocked high enough or something else that is causing Hitman on the XSX to outperform the ps5 here?
 
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The next comparison I am looking forward to is Control in March. I know it is basically just a repackaged last-gen game with a NG patch, but still, it will be a case of multi-plat ray tracing and I am curious to see if there is any difference between the two on that front.

As for Hitman 3, after getting caught up with the thread just now, I am not sure what else to say. Everything DF stated has been clearly relayed numerous times.

Until VGtech puts out a framerate datasheet, or if NXgamer finds more drops or different performance marks in his testing, anything else here is just speculation.

In regards to the SSD talk:

It is undeniable that first party games load lightning fast on PS5 so far. I am still impressed every time I load right into Spider-Man: Remastered. I don't fully understand why that can't apply to third party multi-plat games though. Those devs have the same access to the same tools as first party devs, right?

Hitman 3 has a native-built PS5 version and that's the one DF were testing. PS4 version is the one with VR support.

I am starting to think he is just a troll. You and I both have explained this numerous times throughout this thread and he either ignores it or just doesn't care about the truth.

The PS4 VR version of the game has nothing to do with the native PS5 version of the game.
 
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Isn't this fps drop entirely because of the shadow detail being significantly lower and less required to cast shadows at medium settings.

Here is the snapshot of the XSX FPS drop. Look at the shadow detail. Think of the impact of casting the individual shadow details on the left vs the right.

aD13zxn.jpg


D3kc1GT.gif

That one area in the whole game?

Can you imagine how bad PS5 performance was at high settings at 4k?
I'd imagine the same as the XSX. With bad frame rate drops.
 
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