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[etiolate]

A general complaint and discussion thread with issues created by d3.

WARNING: This thread exists because there are a few complaint threads, one that is locked. Questions about discussions of issues and complaints from players exist in the OT, but they get lost in the speed of that thread before the discussion can really begin. I made the thread because I asked if there was a thread up to discuss the controversies. I got no response. It seemed sensible to make a thread for people wanting to discuss the problems, so that the discussion won't be lost in the stream of item posts. For this, I gathered a couple of threads into links and articles on complaints as links into the OP.

The original DRM thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=474270&highlight=diablo+3+drm&page=22

DRM problem: Forces every purchaser, even those looking to play single player, to go online to be able to play the game.

Problems created by this problem:
-Login servers crash or overflow, keeping paying customers from playing their game.
-Exposes every consumer to being hacked

Diablo 3 Accounts hacked thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=474937

Reasoning behind DRM: It protects against piracy, hacking and duping.

Reality behind DRM: Forces everyone into the AH, which leads to the real money auction house, which attracts hackers like a god damned bat signal.

Response to hacking issue: Get an authenticator! Sure, just as soon as a buy a gun to go to the ATM.

This gets to the question of whether or not Blizzard's standard security protocols are secure enough and if the authenticator is so important then shouldn't it be included with the game? After all, Blizzard is forcing every purchaser into this situation through the DRM.

Of course, there are further issues such as latency issues, the Auction House going down repeated times and the fact that though the game forces you to be online, it doesn't offer nearly as much of the benefits of being online as an actual MMO does.

Press Responses
Some articles:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/18/how-diablo-iiis-solo-experience-reveals-a-hollow-game/

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/17/opinion-why-the-problem-with-diablo-isnt-diablo/

The Real Money Auction House and how it impacts the game's design

Here's an Extra Credits on the possibilities, made before the game's release:
http://extra-credits.net/episodes/the-diablo-iii-marketplace/

What makes looking at that video interesting is realizing that now that the game is released, we know that the difficulty in D3 is based on gear checks and that all the highly "useful" gear is Inferno mode, which is a large difficulty jump that requires that useful gear to survive.

Taken from blog which I won't promote:

Diablo 3 works in a repetitive manner. You clear the game on normal difficulty, then proceed to Nightmare mode, then to Hell mode and finally Inferno mode. Diablo 3 itself is largely a loot based game, but Diablo 3 has emphasized this by making all difficulty in the game a gear check. Blizzard’s World of Warcraft followed this same pattern. In gear check games, all progression is linear and vertical. You have an item, then get a similar item with upgraded stats numbers which replaced the old item. The new item allows you to handle higher level content. This works until you reach a new tier of difficulty which requires the process to start all over again. In WoW, this progress was often tied to dungeon and raid tiers with select item drops on bosses and later token drops which could be handed in for gear. Diablo 3 turns this into a bit more of a lottery by making drops randomized, and then it makes the legendary drops (the really high tier items) appear at a very low rate until you hit Inferno mode.

...

It has become clear to the userbase that its far easier to get these items through the auction house than it is through farming kills in the game. You will get drops by farming monsters, but there’s no certainty that the drop will fit your character. This in turn leads to selling the item on the Auction House and making gold to buy the items you need off the Auction House. It is unfortunate that progression has been tied to the Auction House, but it’s probably tolerable up until the point the Real Money Auction House launches. At that point, you may start finding all the items you need and all those items hackers stole appear only on the Real Money Auction House. When this happens, Inferno mode will become a Pay to Win game.

Of course, it is naturally a lootwhore game. The difference s in the way builds and itemization work now. Gear checks and linear gear progression vs D2 system:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hI4peeO3yzY

Korean FTC raids Blizzard Offices:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/0...ids-blizzard-over-alleged-diablo-iii-wrongdo/

(An important note here is that the consumer complaints weren't directly about DRM, but that the consequences of the DRM and crappy launch kept consumers from playing the game they paid for and that Blizzard was denying these people refunds.)

So how can a company that has run WoW for years fuck up an online game launch? This reddit post might illimunate:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comm..._diablo_iii_experience_seem_so_poorly/c4up19r

tl;dr - WoW has its own servers and is a shard system. While some of WoW's systems are tied to Battle.Net, the whole of their systems are not. Diablo 3 is underneath the big BNet umbrella and it seems that umbrella can't handle the load. In many ways, this is a new system for Blizzard and it may take months for them to smooth it out.

General Questions and Issues

-Was the game designed to funnel people towards Auction Houses and then make profit through the RMAH? Is this an ethical design? Is this putting profit over fun?
-Should the consumer base support online DRM for a non-mmo game?
-Is Blizzard getting less heat because they're Blizzard? Would this receive a different reacton from the enthusiasts if it was Activision or EA? (I guess it's sorta Activision as is.)
-Should Blizzard offer refunds to players since accessing the game is unreliable?

Here's another question for the public:

There has been a lot of negative reviews on metacritic in reaction and a ton of angry threads on the diablo 3 forum. These sort of responses aren't new to a product launch that garners negative attention. I think the usual way to look at these things is to see them as spamming, but are these things also consumer activism in some part? The game has sold 6 million copies. If its taken as a success, certain practices could be taken up by other companies who are watching this launch. Does the spamming then become a way to voice a displeasure that will get drowned out by sales and other protective fans? This is an interesting way of looking at things. There was one thread on the d3 forums that got reposted many times, in almost an organized manner. Is that spam or activism?

Have fun.

 

[Littlegator]

tin foild hat thread bashing Blizzard

Yeah, the DRM is totally not justifiable to protect online, but it's not to herd people into the AH. It's just Activision and their anti-consumer DRM.

 

[Sophia]

tin foild hat thread bashing Blizzard

Yeah that was my first impression, reinforced by reading this:

Reasoning behind DRM: It protects against piracy, hacking and duping.

Reality behind DRM: Forces everyone into the AH, which leads to the real money auction house, which attracts hackers like a god damned bat signal.

Don't get me wrong, Blizzard hasn't done perfect, but some people seem like they're looking for an excuse to bitch.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Diablo 3 works in a repetitive manner. You clear the game on normal difficulty, then proceed to Nightmare mode, then to Hell mode and finally Inferno mode. Diablo 3 itself is largely a loot based game, but Diablo 3 has emphasized this by making all difficulty in the game a gear check. Blizzard’s World of Warcraft followed this same pattern. In gear check games, all progression is linear and vertical. You have an item, then get a similar item with upgraded stats numbers which replaced the old item. The new item allows you to handle higher level content. This works until you reach a new tier of difficulty which requires the process to start all over again. In WoW, this progress was often tied to dungeon and raid tiers with select item drops on bosses and later token drops which could be handed in for gear. Diablo 3 turns this into a bit more of a lottery by making drops randomized, and then it makes the legendary drops (the really high tier items) appear at a very low rate until you hit Inferno mode.

Such bullshit. You can clear Hell easily without touching the auction house and without good luck. Inferno will be difficult but is still possible for Demon Hunter and maybe Wizard.

 

[djplaeskool]

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I don't know what an authenticator is, but I'm guessing that doesn't put the lives of yourself or others at risk as what seems to be coming from the simile.

 

[Rokam]

I don't know what an authenticator is, but I'm guessing that doesn't put the lives of yourself or others at risk as what seems to be coming from the simile.

It's a phone app or a key dongle.

 

[ezekial45]

Am I the only one that hasn't had any serious problems with the game?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

At that point, you may start finding all the items you need and all those items hackers stole appear only on the Real Money Auction House. When this happens, Inferno mode will become a Pay to Win game.

Laughing my ass off here. The always online DRM sucks and the RMAH may not be the best thing for the game's economy, but this is an absolutely magical logic leap.

 

[Thoraxes]

Am I the only one that hasn't had any serious problems with the game?

No. I haven't either.

I also like the assumptions made about design decisions in the OT.

 

[Yoshichan]

I shall eat, shit and sleep in this thread. Why wouldn't I? I haven't been able to play this game for shit lately because of all the issues.

 

[Littlegator]

I don't know what an authenticator is, but I'm guessing that doesn't put the lives of yourself or others at risk as what seems to be coming from the simile.

It's a second step authentication method that comes either in the form of a free smartphone app or a keychain sold at-cost.

As you can see, it's totally analogous to buying a gun to go to an ATM.

 

[AppleMIX]

Am I the only one that hasn't had any serious problems with the game?

Outside of day one launch issues, It's been smooth sailing.

 

[Sophia]

I don't know what an authenticator is, but I'm guessing that doesn't put the lives of yourself or others at risk as what seems to be coming from the simile.

An Authenticator is a two-key security system. You have the physical device on you, and input it in to access the game.

Many banks use this similar security system, and it's very tight despite what certain less intelligent and/or less savory individuals would tell you.

Outside of day one launch issues, It's been smooth sailing.

Ditto for the most part here. I've had some minor lag, but I've had 77 hours of Barbarian goodness to make up for it.

 

[rozay]

Once you get to inferno it's clear how the game was designed around the auction house. I honestly wish I could get a refund and purchase it again later down the line, I'm not impressed with the quality of the product even if it is fun (well, was until inferno)

 

[zinder]

Am I the only one that hasn't had any serious problems with the game?

The game has not been working properly for good 48 hours now in EU. The servers has been totally offline for more than 10 hours during those hours. So unless you have even played the game, yes, you are the only one.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Am I the only one that hasn't had any serious problems with the game?

Maybe you don't play that much?

If you had a server maintenance when you're about to kill an inferno boss, or a server disconnect when you see a double rare drop, you would be pissed.

 

[Finaika]

Problems created by this problem:

I like this sentence.

 

[Rokam]

By the way there's pretty much no way Blizzard will let people without an authenticator use the RMAH.

 

[Sophia]

Once you get to inferno it's clear how the game was designed around the auction house. I honestly wish I could get a refund and purchase it again later down the line, I'm not impressed with the quality of the product even if it is fun (well, was until inferno)

I'm progressing through Inferno just fucking fine without having touched the auction house. It's not clear at all unless you're trying to make shit up.

People need to stop ignoring a common cause, and remember that Blizzard is awful with balance. Inferno is not designed to make you pay money or gold, it's simply Blizzard needing to get a bit more right with the balance, and they always overshoot first.

 

[DTKT]

It's pretty obvious that Blizzard wanted players to use the AH. If anything, it's the easy way out. I could farm the same area for 25 hours without finding anything, but I can use the auction house, spend a minimal amount of gold and be well geared.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Response to hacking issue: Get an authenticator! Sure, just as soon as a buy a gun to go to the ATM.

What does this even mean

 

[Littlegator]

Once you get to inferno it's clear how the game was designed around the auction house. I honestly wish I could get a refund and purchase it again later down the line, I'm not impressed with the quality of the product even if it is fun (well, was until inferno)

Inferno was designed around the point of a loot-whoring game: whoring loot. It's not meant to be another difficulty you play to and then farm endgame. It is the endgame. Yeah, the classes are imbalanced and some can get through easier than others, but as Blizzard said, it was intended to be closer to the difficulty of barb/monk than wizard/DH.

 

[Kade]

blizzard employees are hacking accounts on purpose to promote authenticator sales. they want more money.

 

[Neki]

Once you get to inferno it's clear how the game was designed around the auction house. I honestly wish I could get a refund and purchase it again later down the line, I'm not impressed with the quality of the product even if it is fun (well, was until inferno)

How else would it be designed though? Isn't that how Diablo 2 worked, off player trading?

 

[Rokam]

What does this even mean

Authenticators kill people.

 

[Littlegator]

Authenticators kill people.

No, people kill people with authenticators.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

to me the auction house makes the game too easy.

 

[Sophia]

What does this even mean

It means that etiolate, the topic creator, has no idea that there are many free authenticator options, including a third party option that Blizzard is okay with everyone using. He'd rather be hyperbolic about it.

 

[Kangi]

Am I the only one that hasn't had any serious problems with the game?

Been playing the game every day (even if for only short periods) since launch and outside of the ~one hour period of being unable to log in after launch, I've had very few issues.

 

[Wallach]

How else would it be designed though? Isn't that how Diablo 2 worked, off player trading?

Only partially. You have to keep in mind that the "endgame" of Diablo 2 was actually pretty close to Hell's difficulty in Diablo 3, it wasn't anything like Inferno. You could do it in pretty shit gear, especially since the health/mana mechanic was a lot more broken and there were some really overpowered builds at every point in the game.

 

[Yoshichan]

No, people kill people with authenticators.

Now you're confusing me!

 

[Thoraxes]

blizzard employees are hacking accounts on purpose to promote authenticator sales. they want more money.

Considering the digital ones are completely free and it's been stated many times over the past 4 years that they aren't sold for profit, i'm not sure I can believe this.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Inferno was designed around the point of a loot-whoring game: whoring loot. It's not meant to be another difficulty you play to and then farm endgame. It is the endgame. Yeah, the classes are imbalanced and some can get through easier than others, but as Blizzard said, it was intended to be closer to the difficulty of barb/monk than wizard/DH.

I do find it funny that the reason for the skill and attributes systems in D3 was that "everyone in D2 specced the same and if you picked wrong you'd have to make a new character," and then people get to Inferno with Barb/Monk and welp

 

[Nelo Ice]

So regarding the authenticator issue like nearly everyone I know flat out refuses to get an aunthenticator even if they have a smartphone because they don't give a damn about their security or they're just lazy. I've tried convincing my friends/family but apparently having different passwords for everything and having 2 step verification is flat out outrageous and not worth the time. Also some want to see their accounts hacked since they can just start again and it's not valuable to them since they only have SC2 or some stupid reason like that.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Been playing the game every day (even if for only short periods) since launch and outside of the ~one hour period of being unable to log in after launch, I've had very few issues.

me too, only the first day and only for a few minutes. oh and the other day when they were down 8 hours for maintenance.

 

[Sophia]

I do find it funny that the reason for the skill and attributes systems in D3 was that "everyone in D2 specced the same and if you picked wrong you'd have to make a new character," and then people get to Inferno with Barb/Monk and welp

That has more to do with the fact that Barbarian (and I'm guessing Monk too, judging from all the lovely comments) are awfully designed. A good one third of the Barbarian skillset is less than ideal even for Nightmare or Hell. Let alone Inferno.

So regarding the authenticator issue like nearly everyone I know flat out refuses to get an aunthenticator even if they have a smartphone because they don't give a damn about their security or they're just lazy. I've tried convincing my friends/family but apparently having different passwords for everything and having 2 step verification is flat out outrageous and not worth the time. Also some want to see their accounts hacked since they can just start again and it's not valuable to them since they only have SC2 or some stupid reason like that.

That's their problem. Let them get bit in the ass if or when their account gets hacked. Lots of people only understand the value of security after it's too late.

 

[Cru Jones]

Am I the only one that hasn't had any serious problems with the game?

Nope, its just the ones who want attention and look for the new flavor of the week to bash. People think that the RMAH is going to mean that you have to pay $100 to win (or whatever). The reality is, that as more people push further into Inferno and more gear gets up onto the AH, the economy will eventually drive prices down. Also, the game isn't impossible without the AH, its just a longer grind.

Imagine if Blizzard didn't put inferno in. You'd have people bitching that the game is so easy to beat. If you don't want to grind it out, or spend money on the GAH, or spend money at the RMAH, then don't play the game past Hell. Blizzard has given everyone a LOT of options that beats the hell out of sitting in a Trading chat room trying to find a buyer.

 

[Yoshichan]

Yup. Barbarian fury spenders are really derp right now.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

That has more to do with the fact that Barbarian (and I'm guessing Monk too, judging from all the lovely comments) are awfully designed. A good one third of the Barbarian skillset is less than ideal even for Nightmare or Hell. Let alone Inferno.

YEAH I NOTICED

(seriously like 4/5 of the effects on elites seem specifically designed to punish those classes for existing)

 

[Kade]

Considering the digital ones are completely free and it's been stated many times over the past 4 years that they aren't sold for profit, i'm not sure I can believe this.

I read it on the Battle.net forums.

Anyways, shit is getting out of hand but I expect Blizzard is just going to keep quiet about all this and sweep it under the rug when no ones looking. It's crazy when you need more security to protect a game account than your bank account.

 

[Rufus]

Nope, its just the ones who want attention and look for the new flavor of the week to bash.

Damned complainers, right?

 

[Wallach]

That has more to do with the fact that Barbarian (and I'm guessing Monk too, judging from all the lovely comments) are awfully designed. A good one third of the Barbarian skillset is less than ideal even for Nightmare or Hell. Let alone Inferno.

They're actually just too gear dependent. Like melee is almost always the most gear dependent archetype and that's true here, so it seems like it shouldn't be a big deal. But the bar is so high in Inferno that these two classes just don't have any other way to meet it.

On the plus side I guess, they do at least continue to scale exponentially with gear like you'd expect them to. Not that more than 5% of whatever percentage of the player base playing these classes is going to hit those gear levels.

Edit - Also Barbarians have completely terrible resource dumps that are terrible and bad

 

[hyduK]

1) The hacking (it's not really hacking, more like people getting keylogged, but whatever) isn't Blizzards problem. If anything they're doing a favour by providing the authenticator. They could just as easily give you the finger and tell you to watch what you do on the internet, considering the issue has nothing to do with their architecture.

Diablo isn't the only game where accounts get compromised, it just happens to be a big target, for obvious reasons.

Really, people need to stop saying hackers...you're acting as if there's people busting into Blizzards servers and stealing your info. Your account didn't get hacked, it got compromised, and it wasn't Blizzards fault. It's not different than people who click that 'OMG LINDSAY LOHAN SEXTAPE' link on FB and then wonder why their account starts spamming everyone with it 10 minutes later.

2) The itemization complaint is also pretty dumb. They didn't design the game to maximize profits from the AH. In fact, it's basically the same design as Diablo II had. Which was basically the same design as Diablo had. Is it a system that gives them a lot of potential for profit? Absolutely. But to say it was designed with that specifically in mind is pretty ignorant. If you didn't have the AH you'd have people bitching that it's impossible to get good items for your toon. Diablo II alienated a lot of the playerbase because they didn't know where to go to get trades (besides the obvious games like 'perf shako for 2hr and such', if you wanted to get consistently good trades you needed to be on forums...a lot of which allowed for real money trades). No ones forcing you to use the RMAH, the gold AH is a very viable option.

You also don't need to spend tons of money to get to where you need to be. I got to Inferno only using the AH to upgrade my weapon every several levels. I didn't even sell items on the AH, this was just using gold I picked up/from vendoring/quest rewards. Yeah, if you want the best of the best you'll need to do some farming...that's the nature of the game.

3) The DRM doesn't force anybody to use the AH. You can still play the game as a single player game if you so choose. Would you rather just play the game SP and hope that an item you need drops? Feel free, you have that option.




tl;dr:

1) You're not getting hacked, you're getting compromised. It's no fault of Blizzards. They offer the authenticator when they could simply give you the finger.
2) The itemization is nearly identical to that of Diablo II. You simply have more options now. To say that they designed this around the RMAH is ignorant because it has ALWAYS been this way.
3) DRM doesn't force anyone to use the AH.

 

[Nelo Ice]

That's their problem. Let them get bit in the ass if or when their account gets hacked. Lots of people only understand the value of security after it's too late.

Yeah it seems like a lost cause at this point. Every single time I've tried to help them setup lastpass or just in general having a system with different passes they completely ignore me. It's really annoying seeing how ignorant everyone is with regards to security and not getting enabling 2 step among other security measures.

 

[Sophia]

YEAH I NOTICED

(seriously like 4/5 of the effects on elites seem specifically designed to punish those classes for existing)

It's not even the effects of elites that I was refering too. Some of the skills are just.... terrible.

Take Ancient Spear for example. The mobs you'd most likely want to use this very situational ability on are immune and/or too small to accurately hit. Or Bash, of which the damage is too low. Or the passive Unfrogiving; It generates too little fury, and not nearly fast enough, making it a worthless option.

And then you add the problems of melee range and elite effects, and you can toss most of the Secondaries in there as well.

Edit - Also Barbarians have completely terrible resource dumps that are terrible and bad

Yeah, all the Fury spenders are terrible. There is no reason my primary on an unlimited resource should be doing more damage than a specialized secondary on a very tight resource.

Yeah it seems like a lost cause at this point. Every single time I've tried to help them setup lastpass or just in general having a system with different passes they completely ignore me. It's really annoying seeing how ignorant everyone is with regards to security and not getting enabling 2 step among other security measures.

It's annoying, but I've learned to not care and let them be ignorant. Then when they get hacked, I can say "I told you so. Now shut the fuck up and listen to me like you should have done in the first place."

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I just want to be able to play the fucking game. EU servers and the way they've been handled this week has been disgusting. Thought things would get better after the launch, not worse.

 

[Seraphinianus]

No, people kill people with authenticators.

If we outlaw authenticators, only authenticators will have outlaws

 

[Mxrz]

When this happens, Inferno mode will become a Pay to Win game.

Pay to win what?

All of this stuff was known before anyone purchased the game, but we all knew these threads were coming regardless.

 

[etiolate]

How else would it be designed though? Isn't that how Diablo 2 worked, off player trading?

It's a lootwhore and gear game like D2, but a little different because its a linear gear progression with difficulty based on gear checks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hI4peeO3yzY

That talks about the difference. I should probably add it to the OP.