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[rCIZZLE]

Sorry, but you've contradicted yourself enough to the point where I won't "defend" an explanation of mechanics. Things work how they work.

Elaborate. If formatting was the problem then it's taken care of.

The game is having "normal" drop off tendencies due to mechanics that are by design.

What I'm complaining about is one of those designs. I've heard a lot of "that's bullshit" in mumble from friends experiencing the same thing.

However it would seem that there's even more due to the changes that have been coming as of late that are based off reactions to quite a few factors like bots, inflation, barrier to entry to inferno acts, etc. I didn't play any other diablo, so I don't know how things were handled in their early days.

The changes of late actually magnify the animation problem. Higher repair costs and frequent insta-regen elites make deaths from this all the more frustrating.

 

[Orenhy]

And changing everything to massive drop rates would turn into, "and i'm gonna leave game for now, there is just no reason to farm gear when i have everything i need already'.

I prefer the chase.

Yeah well the game sucks, it's just super addicting.
But how about instead of 1 good item per week of play or massive drop rates, we get 1 good item per 2 days of playing, so that starting a new character isn't so much work and grind.
but again, in the end the design of this game is so limited, im not gonna give it more credit.

 

[Tacitus_]

You guys make it sound like, for the high-level players at least, this is basically a F2P game that you pay $60 for initially. Who would have thought ActiBlizz would have gotten greedy with the rmah and let the game suffer because of it?!?

It isn't. You can buy stuff off of RMAH like you could buy stuff off of D2JSP or Ebay. People are just antsy because Inferno can be a brick wall in difficulty compared to the previous difficulty jumps and they can't just stroll through the game. Blizzard intended Inferno to last months before being cleared - even HC chars (who have perma death) cleared it recently and HC doesn't have RMAH at all.

 

[Fugu]

Not at all; wasn't meant that way so no need to take it that way. I'm not defending anything, just explaining that's how things work. I don't particularly like the mechanic, didn't make sense to me at first. Doesn't mean I can't play the game though. Once I understand how/why it works, I'm able to adapt to it. Are you so set in your ways that you can't play a different way, use different gear, try different skills to maybe have a better experience? That is what my comment about "it's not fair" is in reference to. (If you are, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just asking.)

What it's saying is that the animation means exactly what it looks like: You're at point X where before you were at point Y. What it is also telling you is that regardless of how close or how far you are, if you were in range of a melee attacks animation to begin, the damage is coming - deal with it (because range isn't going to help you). If you don't like that mechanic that's fine. However, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can't still play the game. It doesn't ruin/break the game. It might impair the particular style/skill/gear/whatever set you're wanting to play, but it doesn't do that for everyone nor does it mean you can't adapt. If you don't want to, then that's your own thing and you can do whatever you want.

So to the point of the thread, this mechanic has been in the game since day 1. Mechanics like this are in every game (not specifically like this buy ones that frustrate people) and cause people to stop playing. Only natural to a game cycle.

Maybe not for you, but it certainly does a good job of making me not want to play it. To be fair, it's not single-handedly causing me not to play the game, but it stands out as one of the poorest decisions that Blizzard has made regarding the game. Your post reads like we should want to play the game in spite of its bad mechanics, whereas in reality it is bad mechanics that are causing us to not want to play the game in the first place and not our perceived inability to overcome these bad mechanics. I don't want to have to overcome bad mechanics.

People aren't playing the game because it stinks and has no replayability. People are complaining about the drop rates in Diablo 3, but the reality is that the drop rates in Diablo 2 were significantly harsher; this combined with the fact that Diablo 2 just has more content and randomness than Diablo 3 makes 3 seem like a short and pointless game.

 

[Gaogaogao]

They need to fix the damn game tbh, price drop wont fix it.

at least I will play it though

 

[rozay]

I've basically stopped playing due to a lot of the gameplay and loot mechanics. Hoped 1.03 would fix some of them to make playing enjoyable, but it didn't happen :/

 

[TommyT]

Maybe not for you, but it certainly does a good job of making me not want to play it. To be fair, it's not single-handedly causing me not to play the game, but it stands out as one of the poorest decisions that Blizzard has made regarding the game. Your post reads like we should want to play the game in spite of its bad mechanics, whereas in reality it is bad mechanics that are causing us to not want to play the game in the first place and not our perceived inability to overcome these bad mechanics. I don't want to have to overcome bad mechanics.

People aren't playing the game because it stinks and has no replayability. People are complaining about the drop rates in Diablo 3, but the reality is that the drop rates in Diablo 2 were significantly harsher; this combined with the fact that Diablo 2 just has more content and randomness than Diablo 3 makes 3 seem like a short and pointless game.

Sorry, that's not how it was intended. I was trying to convey that they've simply accounted for and given you (the player) ways to play given the mechanics they've created. If that is causing anyone to not want to play, then by all means that's completely fine (not fine in the games sense but I think you get it ).

They created a non-intuitive melee damage mechanic. They also created ways to play with it. All that I'm trying to say.

 

[sazzy]

It's a little shocking to see so many people who have quit in this thread. Wasn't expecting that.

 

[Alcoholikaust]

After about 200 hours and no purchases on RMAH I am done with game. No incentive to play once you have a lvl 60 character with every class.

Path of Exile and Torchlight 2 need to hurry up

 

[Artanisix]

It´s wierd, almost every stream/build has 2-4 legendary items in them, if they are so shitty why are people bothering using them.
HoC, Andariels, justice lantern, bul kathos ring, lacuni and some more.
In d2 there where shitty uniques aswell so this point doesn´t make sense to me.

diablo 2 had way, way more useful uniques throughout the whole game. why would you ever use a low level unique in d3 for example when there are a billion rares that outstrip it? and the vast majority of lvl 60 uniques in d3 are complete trash compared to those in d2.

let's just take a quick look at useful uniques in d2:
helms: shako, nightwing's veil, andarial's visage, crown of ages, peasant crown, valk wing, vampire gaze, tarnhelm
armor: tyreals, templar's might, steel carapace, leviathan, arkaine's valor, gladiator's bane, ormus robes, guardian angel, toothrow, que-hegan's wisdom, skullder's ire, shaftstop, vipermagi, twitchthroe

okay i'm going to stop there, that's already TWENTY TWO USEFUL uniques that can all go endgame depending on your build (llders included). alright cool let's look at d3 now!

helms: andarial's visage, mempo of twilight, helm of command, natalya's gaze
armor: tyreal's might, tal rasha's guardianship

....

rofl

 

[Cipherr]

The biggest issue with the game IMO is the raised repair costs, the increased difficulty/penalty for grouping (in both the mob health, and the averaging of Magic Find among the group) and more importantly the artificial difficulty.

For anyone who played WoW, think of it like this:

Normal to Inferno is every like, every boss in a raid being Patchwerk where everything is a bit of a boring gear check.

When it should be stuff like Teron Gorefiend in Black Temple, where you have fights where mechanics and understanding of the mobs and abilities allow you to overcome.

You never really learn anything.... I mean outside of little quirks like pathing bugs and whatnot. It just feels like everything is a gear check. Theres no real difficulty, just artificial difficulty where the numbers on the damage dealt by the enemies goes up.

If this was the case, why did they nerf act 3/4 droprates to compensate for act 1/2 droprate buffs? It is pretty clear from that action alone that their primary focus is the AH.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5911883821?page=2#33

Beeeeeeeeeeeecause they made a bad decision? Did you not read what you linked?

We agree it was a bad change, so we'll be correcting it, but it wasn't a quick enough change to get into 1.0.3a.

They are changing that and agree is was a mistake. Im not sure how that proves anything...

diablo 2 had way, way more useful uniques throughout the whole game. why would you ever use a low level unique in d3 for example when there are a billion rares that outstrip it? and the vast majority of lvl 60 uniques in d3 are complete trash compared to those in d2.

let's just take a quick look at useful uniques in d2:
helms: shako, nightwing's veil, andarial's visage, crown of ages, peasant crown, valk wing, vampire gaze, tarnhelm
armor: tyreals, templar's might, steel carapace, leviathan, arkaine's valor, gladiator's bane, ormus robes, guardian angel, toothrow, que-hegan's wisdom, skullder's ire, shaftstop, vipermagi, twitchthroe

okay i'm going to stop there, that's already TWENTY TWO USEFUL uniques that can all go endgame depending on your build (llders included). alright cool let's look at d3 now!

helms: andarial's visage, mempo of twilight, helm of command, natalya's gaze
armor: tyreal's might, tal rasha's guardianship

....

rofl

You are missing a LOT of useful items from D3, and make sure your D2 list is all items available 1 month after launch. I mean... it would be ridiculous to compare a game of D2's age with the 1 month old d3 right?

 

[EekTheKat]

In my case there were just other games that I wanted to play instead of just grinding inferno.

 

[Tremis]

LOL. I'm not sure what game you were playimg but I'm pretty sure it isn't Diablo 2 at any stage of the game's lifespan.

Drop rate was high enough that you always felt capable of continuing? What a load of fucking bullshit. Did you even reach Hell difficulty? The brick wall you hit in D2 Hell Act 1 is far far bigger than the brick wall of Inferno Act 2 in D3 now post-patch.

Are you serious man? You could run hell naked as a necro for crying out loud.

Viable gear for hell practically rained from heaven in D2 compared to D3. You could get cool uniques and construct awesome runewords and even gamble up good rares and find good enough items for hell easily. It's not even close to inferno. People are currently playing for hours on end and not finding a single upgrade that allows them to progress 1 ACT into inferno.

Sorry, but if you toned it down a bit in your post, maybe I wouldn't have commented, but calling they guy a liar? You are the one that looks like they haven't played D2 much, from this post man, sorry to say. Just my opinion though.

 

[EekTheKat]

In my case there were just other games that I wanted to play instead of just grinding inferno.

I may revisit D3 after tackling my own backlog a bit (bought MP3 but haven't even opened it yet), but for now I'm perfectly okay with walking away from D3 for a while.

 

[Realyn]

Are you serious man? You could run hell naked as a necro for crying out loud.

Viable gear for hell practically rained from heaven in D2 compared to D3. You could get cool uniques and construct awesome runewords and even gamble up good rares and find good enough items for hell easily. It's not even close to inferno. People are currently playing for hours on end and not finding a single upgrade that allows them to progress 1 ACT into inferno.

Sorry, but if you toned it down a bit in your post, maybe I wouldn't have commented, but calling they guy a liar? You are the one that looks like they haven't played D2 much, from this post man, sorry to say. Just my opinion though.

Yeah right, runewords 1 month after d2 release.

Right.

Edit: And cool uniques and gamble rares. Wtf. Did you even play launch D2? Nobody had a clue how to beat Hell and/or how to farm good places.

edit#2:

Normal to Inferno is every like, every boss in a raid being Patchwerk where everything is a bit of a boring gear check.

When it should be stuff like Teron Gorefiend in Black Temple, where you have fights where mechanics and understanding of the mobs and abilities allow you to overcome.

You never really learn anything.... I mean outside of little quirks like pathing bugs and whatnot. It just feels like everything is a gear check. Theres no real difficulty, just artificial difficulty where the numbers on the damage dealt by the enemies goes up.

Welcome to the Diablo franchise. Please turn left and go back to WoW for clever encounters. ;p

 

[Gravijah]

the problem:

in diablo 2, uniques and sets were badass
in diablo 3, uniques and sets are boring and shitty

in classic d2, rares were king. there were only a few uniques worth using (though they were amazing) and set items were complete shit.

lod 1.08/1.09 focused on uniques, which were amazing, while runewords mostly sucked. not counting ith bugged stuff, of course.

1.10+ runewords are amazing, lots of good uniques to use, a few alright sets, and some rare stuff can be amazing if you get lucky.

 

[Tremis]

Yeah right, runewords 1 month after d2 release.

Right.

Edit: And cool uniques and gamble rares. Wtf. Did you even play launch D2? Nobody had a clue how to beat Hell and/or how to farm good places.

I guess that is a good excuse for D3 not learning from D2 in any way in regards to itemization then? No really? Is it?

edit: did you even see the context of my post? It was an argument about the end game difficulty and being able to run yourself through hell, not about runewords specifically. In fact, they are not even close to necessary to running hell.

 

[Basileus777]

Yeah right, runewords 1 month after d2 release.

Right.

Edit: And cool uniques and gamble rares. Wtf. Did you even play launch D2? Nobody had a clue how to beat Hell and/or how to farm good places.

Why are you talking about launch? The guy said D2 "at any stage of the game's lifespan."

 

[Realyn]

I guess that is a good excuse for D3 not learning from D2 in any way in regards to itemization then? No really? Is it?

It's a way to rush a game, because the Publisher asks for it. It also is a way to patch new stuff to keep people playing or sell a Expansion Pack ... Shocking, I know.

Why are you talking about launch? The guy said D2 "at any stage of the game's lifespan."

Well, he's also talking about the current state of the game ?!

People are currently playing for hours on

A little bit unfair to compare the 1 month after release farming process to D2 LoD 1.10 or whatever.

that justifies it, how? what are you even arguing for?

It doesn't justify it, but explains it. I'm sorry, but is that completly out of the blue? And no, I don't like it when a company thinks like that.

 

[Artanisix]

It's a way to rush a game, because the Publisher asks for it. It also is a way to patch new stuff to keep people playing or sell a Expansion Pack ... Shocking, I know.

that justifies it, how? what are you even arguing for?

 

[hyduK]

As stated Xfire users aren't the best representation of this. It would be interesting to see the total hours played by those users.

I played a ton the first week, got a bit burnt out, played more SC2, and now I'm back leveling a hc toon.

 

[WARP10CK]

I stopped playing D3 after 1.03 and I am now eagerly awaiting Torchlight 2.

 

[Tremis]

It's a way to rush a game, because the Publisher asks for it. It also is a way to patch new stuff to keep people playing or sell a Expansion Pack ... Shocking, I know.

This is a possible reason for the state D3 is in, yes. I agree. We are in agreement, then.

 

[dLMN8R]

After about 200 hours and no purchases on RMAH I am done with game. No incentive to play once you have a lvl 60 character with every class.

Path of Exile and Torchlight 2 need to hurry up

Are you implying that 200 hours of a game without a monthly fee is somehow disappointing? Or are you simply stating that you're happy with your 200 hours and are ready to move on?

 

[Alchemy]

Loot drops in D3 suck, so its only expected that it loses users at a quick rate since it doesn't have an extensive amount of content to grind through.

 

[Takeda Kenshi]

I lost interest in Xfire the moment Dennis Fong sold his share.

 

[hyduK]

I must be missing something here. In Diablo II you beat hell and then farmed hell so you could....farm hell more efficiently.

Now you beat hell, and farm it so that you can progress through Inferno. They've basically added another layer of progression on, so I don't know how it could possibly be worse.

In regards to drops being low, you all must be delusional. In Diablo II there wasn't even such a thing as farming for the best items (BotD, Enigma, HotO, etc.). It was borderline impossible. Hell, even farming for decent uniques was pretty tedious, and that's if you had a character with a decent MF%. Not saying the drop rates are good, but they're hardly different than from D2.

Also, in D2 people bitched because everyone had the exact same gear, and in most cases there was a BIS. In D3 people bitch because there isn't definitive BIS.

I think Blizzard did make a mistake by allowing you to hit the level cap before finishing the game. In D2 you couldn't do that, so you always had that carrot on a stick (even though hitting the level cap was pointless aside from just wanting to do it).

 

[Fugu]

You are missing a LOT of useful items from D3, and make sure your D2 list is all items available 1 month after launch. I mean... it would be ridiculous to compare a game of D2's age with the 1 month old d3 right?

This argument is disingenuous because Blizzard had all of the time that Diablo 2 was live to learn from its mistakes when making Diablo 3; they are describing themselves as the same developer that made Diablo 2 (they're not, but that's how they're framing it) so they should have all of the benefit of the experience of its development. Also, he's got about a hundred uniques to go if he's listing every useful unique in Diablo 2.

Most uniques aren't endgame good in Diablo 2 classic. Then again, this argument is again not fair for several reasons (note that I am discussing the game as it existed in July of 2000, unpatched.):

1. Diablo 2 originally did not have a level requirement on any items. This meant that uniques would basically obliterate all normal rare-quality items in most categories, and ensured that uniques dominated the discussion of low- and mid-level items.
2. Diablo 2 contains an entire subset of items known as exceptional items that do not have unique variants but have higher base stats; exceptional rare items were therefore the best items in the game, but also the most rare. This brings us to my next point...
3. Unique items are far more common in Diablo 2 than they are in 3. I've played about a billion Diablo 2 characters (and I'm about to start another one); it isn't common that you make it through Act 3 normal without seeing a single unique, and you'll likely have seen several by the end of nightmare.
4. The larger pool of possible and relevant statistics on items in 2 make uniques more likely to serve a limited purpose. Because of this, there are certain uniques that are deceptive in that their usage in endgame is determined by a single property that cannot be randomly generated on a rare item; notable examples of this include gull, silks of the victor, and bonesnap.

The problem isn't that Diablo 3's uniques suck, it's that almost all of them suck all the time due to their rarity and non-competitive requirements.

I must be missing something here. In Diablo II you beat hell and then farmed hell so you could....farm hell more efficiently.

Now you beat hell, and farm it so that you can progress through Inferno. They've basically added another layer of progression on, so I don't know how it could possibly be worse.

In regards to drops being low, you all must be delusional. In Diablo II there wasn't even such a thing as farming for the best items (BotD, Enigma, HotO, etc.). It was borderline impossible. Hell, even farming for decent uniques was pretty tedious, and that's if you had a character with a decent MF%. Not saying the drop rates are good, but they're hardly different than from D2.

Also, in D2 people bitched because everyone had the exact same gear, and in most cases there was a BIS. In D3 people bitch because there isn't definitive BIS.

The problem is two-fold. For starters, as you said, the farming in Diablo 3 is extremely shallow compared to Diablo 2 and it doesn't take nearly as long to get optimal gear as it does in Diablo 2. The second is that the game itself is more cheap than it is fun, causing the farming to be for naught as no one wants to play the endgame anyway.

 

[Fenderputty]

Yeah right, runewords 1 month after d2 release.

Right.

Edit: And cool uniques and gamble rares. Wtf. Did you even play launch D2? Nobody had a clue how to beat Hell and/or how to farm good places.

edit#2:



Welcome to the Diablo franchise. Please turn left and go back to WoW for clever encounters. ;p

Does Blizz remember it?

I don't know why people keep saying this. I'm still playing and enjoy Diablo III, but expecting Blizz to learn from their past mistakes isn't being unfair.

The drops are pretty poor and the loot isn't very interesting. The legendaries are less than worthless. The game has issues.

EDIT:

It's a way to rush a game, because the Publisher asks for it. It also is a way to patch new stuff to keep people playing or sell a Expansion Pack ... Shocking, I know.

This is not a valid excuse and is more cause for concern.

 

[Rokal]

You are missing a LOT of useful items from D3, and make sure your D2 list is all items available 1 month after launch. I mean... it would be ridiculous to compare a game of D2's age with the 1 month old d3 right?

Why shouldn't we? Blizzard had plenty of time to work on Diablo 3 and create a more satisfying item system. It's not like the 7+ year development cycle was spent making a big ambitious campaign. I've heard plenty of people say that "Diablo 2 took years to get to the item state people remember, give Diablo 3 time" but why should we give Blizzard a free pass for making bad decisions (again) and forgetting lessons they learned with Diablo 2? People want Unique and Set items to be awesome? People want bosses to drop large amounts of loot the first time you kill them on any difficulty? Well, no kidding.

If Blizzard released a new MMO where leveling content was impossible to solo and there was no LFG tool, would you just say "everyone makes mistakes, give them time!"? Any sane customer wouldn't, because they know that Blizzard has already learned these lessons and should know better.

 

[Artanisix]

You are missing a LOT of useful items from D3, and make sure your D2 list is all items available 1 month after launch. I mean... it would be ridiculous to compare a game of D2's age with the 1 month old d3 right?

i only went through helms and armor because i didn't feel like listing 100 good diablo 2 uniques to prove my point. and no, it's ridiculous to compare a brand new game with 5+ years in the making to it's prequel at launch.

 

[aznpxdd]

Yeah...I'm pretty damn sure one of the reasons why they made dodging/hitboxes the way it is is thanks to D3 being always online and the content all coming from Blizz/Server side. It sure reduces the server load when they design the game in a way where a hit is calculated as soon as the attack animation starts. Sorry guys, no dodging attacks here...even if it takes 3-4 seconds for the enemy to throw down the hammer.

 

[Rabbit Lord]

I stopped playing D3 after 1.03 and I am now eagerly awaiting Torchlight 2.

Basically same as me, Haven't played at all in the past week plus. I do feel I got my money's worth, almost 200 hours played.

 

[Valnen]

After about 200 hours and no purchases on RMAH I am done with game. No incentive to play once you have a lvl 60 character with every class.

Path of Exile and Torchlight 2 need to hurry up

200 hours is pretty impressive for any game, especially if you only played by yourself.

I see D3 lasting myself much longer than that. It sounds like loot games just aren't your bag and honestly that means Path of Exile and Torchlight 2 will disappoint you even more.

Sorry guys, no dodging attacks here...even if it takes 3-4 seconds for the enemy to throw down the hammer.

I can dodge those slow telegraphed attacks that are meant to be dodged just fine. Some attacks can be dodged, some can't. Learn which are which. Things like the slow pain monger orange overhead swing can be dodged.

 

[Fugu]

200 hours is pretty impressive for any game, especially if you only played by yourself.

200 hours is pretty shit for an online role-playing game, let alone a game in the Diablo franchise.

Personally, I would be surprised if I've gotten half of that out of Diablo 3.

 

[Radec]

I'm almost done making my 2nd character to 60 and I'm getting bored of the same quests, paths, bosses, monsters, acts every difficulty. :/

 

[Dire]

I just hope people remember what they're writing here today when Blizzard starts hyping the first expansion. The amount of people that day1'd this game has undoubtedly left the suit's patting themselves on the back for managing the production of a record breaking title. They don't care about forums or even reviews (metacritic was only seen as relevant when it was shown high metacritic ratings have a strong correlation with high sales.) It's tough to resist the hype, but when you don't you end up sending the wrong message to the suits and they are ultimately the people that are responsible for why Diablo 3 is the way it is.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Just thought I'd update this post with an interesting new tidbit from Bashiok today:

Would it help to explain that it's not a subscription based game?
I'd be curious to know why xfire users have stopped playing specifically, because our internal numbers are steady. Anyway, it doesn't matter, and it's not something we can successfully argue. If we post numbers we're clearly liars, etc. etc. There are a million ways to try to read into everything we do.

In response to a mention of the Xfire user drop: http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/vpztl/103b_delayed/c56uhdc?context=3

 

[scy]

Just thought I'd update this post with an interesting new tidbit from Bashiok today:



In response to a mention of the Xfire user drop: http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/vpztl/103b_delayed/c56uhdc?context=3

Bashiok never sounds happy.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Bashiok never sounds happy.

Well when you have to respond to stuff like this... http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/228247-why-choose-reddit/

 

[larvi]

The always online is definitely causing issues for me. Had a random server reset yesterday when I was 3/4 through a boss fight, not only did I lose the progress in the fight I also had to slog my way back through the area I had already cleared to get back there again.

But the biggest issue is my character keeps randomly resetting position while I'm walking, i.e. I'll start walking then boom I'm back to where I started out walking from again. It does this several times an hour for me and it is very disrupting to the flow of the game.

I'm almost done making my 2nd character to 60 and I'm getting bored of the same quests, paths, bosses, monsters, acts every difficulty. :/

Yeah, this is a problem too, I want to try out hardcore and some of the other classes but the start of the game is so slow and repetative. I'm used to games like Sacred 2 where you have lots of freedom to do other quests/areas outside of the main story quests as a change of pace when building new characters.

 

[out0v0rder]

woah this thread reminded me xfire still exists.

it was so cool.

does anyone remember that "SOLITAIRE" phase in order to overtake WoW?

 

[Duxxy3]

offline mode, $50 plz

 

[Chakan]

AH + lots of horrible drops + bosses that drop nothing useful ruined the game.

 

[Alvarius]

Wow. Bashiok is in hardcore damage-control mode!

 

[atomico]

lol XFire

 

[Salih]

best thing on Diablo 3 is, that when you are fed up with it you just sell your stuff on the RMAH and make shitton of money.

 

[dLMN8R]

Just thought I'd update this post with an interesting new tidbit from Bashiok today:



In response to a mention of the Xfire user drop: http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/vpztl/103b_delayed/c56uhdc?context=3

:lol