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Did anyone watch that segment on 60 minutes about the The Food Flavoring Industry?

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Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
It was fucking crazy. 60 minutes interviews this Swiss company called Givaudan that is the biggest food flavoring multinational in the world. They provide more food flavoring than any other company.

Here is a video of the segment.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7389748n

If anyone says that today's food industry is not built for people to overeat, even after watching this, I wouldn't know what to say.

Here is part of the excerpt of the video
When you chug a sports drink or chew a stick of gum, you probably don't think of science. But there is a precise science - and a delicate art - behind what you're tasting. Morley Safer reports on the multibillion dollar flavor industry, whose scientists create natural and artificial flavorings that make your mouth water and keep you coming back for more.

The following is a script of "The Flavorists" which aired on Nov. 27, 2011. Morley Safer is correspondent, Ruth Streeter, producer.

As the Thanksgiving weekend comes to a close, you may feel as overstuffed as that turkey you ate. And if you're overweight - and the chances are, you are, it's probably because you eat too much, too much of the wrong stuff. Most of the wrong stuff we eat comes in a bottle, a can, or a box - food that's been processed - much of that food has been flavored.

The flavoring industry is the enabler of the food processing business - which depends on it to create a craving for everything from soda pop to chicken soup. It is Willy Wonka and his chocolate factory as a multibillion dollar industry; an industry cloaked in secrecy. But recently Givaudan, the largest flavoring company in the world, allowed us in to see them work their magic.

[Jim Hassel: So definitely an aroma, the mandarin, dancy tangerine. Real mild though. Not in your face.]

These are "super sniffers," "super tasters"...

[Andy Daniher: And more bitter.]

...on the prowl. The special forces - first responders to the call for the next best taste.

[Andy Daniher: The mandarin notes are fantastic.]

They are braving the wilds of a citrus grove in Riverside, California, where Jim Hassel - whose nose and palette are legendary - leads a Givaudan team on a taste safari. Big game hunters in search of the next great taste in soft drinks. Their inspiration? The greatest flavorist of them all: Mother Nature.

Jim Hassel: Seeing everything that's available really just drives the whole creative process.

Morley Safer: Like an artist going to Rome or something?

Hassel: Correct. Correct.

Safer: But the ultimate purpose is to sell more soft drinks or whatever?

Hassel: That's what we're in the business of, selling flavors.


Safer: Let's go sniffing.

Our perception of taste is largely located in the nose, but described in the language of music.

Dawn Streich: Do you get like a tropical note? A little bit of papaya? Potentially?

Andy Daniher: Cotton candy note?

Dawn Streich: Cotton candy a little bit.

They are plotting how to move the flavors they find in this grove to your supermarket shelf and then on to your stomach.

Hassel: I could see it in a sports drink, I could see it in a flavored water. And I also could see it in a twist on an orange carbonated beverage.

When they find something they like, they extract its flavor molecules from the fruit on the tree. Then back in the lab, they mimic Mother Nature's molecules with chemicals.

Safer: Essentially what you do is, you take whatever this smells like--

Ziaogen Yang: Right.

Safer: --and copy it?

Yang: Right. Exactly.

Safer: And then I suppose you could-- if you chose to, you could, quote unquote, "improve on it."

Yang: Yes.

Hassel: Exactly.

Yang: We-- all the time.

The Holy Grail - a flavor so good you can't resist it.


Dawn Streich: In our fruit flavors we're talking about, we want a burst in the beginning. And maybe a finish that doesn't linger too much so that you want more of it.

Hassel: And you don't want a long linger, because you're not going to eat more of it if it lingers.

Safer: Aha. So I see, it's going to be a quick fix. And then--

Hassel: Have more.

Safer: And then have more. But that suggests something else?

Hassel: Exactly.

Safer: Which is called addiction?

Hassel: Exactly.

Safer: You're tryin' to create an addictive taste?

Hassel: That's a good word.


Streich: Or something that they want to go back for again and again.

Food companies know that flavor is what makes repeat customers. So they commission Givaudan to create what they hope will be a mouthwatering taste.

Givaudan may be the biggest multinational you've never heard of. The Swiss company employs almost 9,000 people in 45 countries, providing tastiness to just about every cuisine imaginable.

Safer: There's a lot of secrecy involved in your profession, correct?

Hassel: Our intellectual properties are our formulas. So without that, we have nothing. So there's a lot of secrecy. You really don't want anyone to know.

Michelle Hagen: My world is making things taste good.

Soda pop and chewing gum flavorist Michelle Hagen has helped Givaudan and the food companies make billions with her secret formulas.

Hagen: I create thousands of flavors. So I need somewhere to put them. And I have a lot of flavors in here.


Safer: What are these?

Hagen: Here are some oranges and tangerines.

Safer: Seven hundred and fifty flavors of orange, tangerine, mandarins.

Hagen: Raspberry's one of my favorite. I can't even fit all my raspberries on here.

Safer: How different can raspberries be?

Hagen: Oh, very different, very different. Oh, yeah, you can make 'em jammy. You can make 'em sweet. You can make 'em floral. You can make 'em seedy. It's endless, really.

And the flavor ingredients might not have ever met a raspberry.


Hagen: I have butyric acid artificial and then I have butyric acid natural.

All flavors are combinations of chemicals - artificial flavors are largely manmade. Natural flavors come from nature, but not necessarily from what the label implies.

[Hagen: Our strawberry creations.]

For example, strawberry and vanilla flavor can come from the gland in a beaver's backside.
 
Futurama_snu_snu.gif


It's creepy really.
 

AVclub

Junior Member
The voice of the reporter is grossing me out. All that phlegm and flapping jowls are harshing my calm, man.
 

drspeedy

Member
Fast Food Nation is great, I recommend it to everyone.

which reminds me, banana flavor used to come from insect butts, and I'd prefer that to the 40-letter ingredients and infinite benzene rings in things I can't pronounce...
 

El Sloth

Banned
Fast Food Nation is great, I recommend it to everyone.

which reminds me, banana flavor used to come from insect butts, and I'd prefer that to the 40-letter ingredients and infinite benzene rings in things I can't pronounce...

Insect ass sounds delicious.
 
Don't blame Givaudan for overeating, blame people's lack of self control.

Bingo! It comes down to self-discipline more than anything else, but some people would prefer to blame someone other than themselves.

Ultimately, we're hard-wired to respond to foods that are fatty, salty and/or sweet, so different people take advantage of this in different ways, whether it's a local baker wafting the smells from his shop out into the street, or food scientists finding new flavorings to tempt people with. People bemoan the addictiveness of processed food while celebrating home-made foods which are frankly also made to make them crave more of it, but don't see the irony in that.
 

cbox

Member
There are other issues for sure but they certainly aren't helping...

People just have to realize the food you make yourself tastes better than the shit in boxes and jars.
 
There are other issues for sure but they certainly aren't helping...

People just have to realize the food you make yourself tastes better than the shit in boxes and jars.

Except when it doesn't. The company's goal is to "improve" flavors found in nature and make them even more addictive. So the stuff you make yourself isn't going to taste as good, because it isn't meticulously designed for the sole purpose of giving you an oral orgasm.
 
Not when it comes to physical addiction.

No, it absolutely is more self-discipline than anything else.

Self-discipline is a requirement for quitting any kind of addiction, even with the help of support groups and other ways of coping with an addiction. I'm not saying it's easy at all, but people do quit smoking cold turkey, and food addiction, if it is that, is arguably not in the same class as nicotine or drug addiction.
 
No, it absolutely is more self-discipline than anything else.

I'd like to know how you are so confident when you say this.

and food addiction, if it is that, is arguably not in the same class as nicotine or drug addiction.

Oh really?

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ve-as-cocaine-in-growing-body-of-science.html

And just because some people get better after quitting cold turkey doesn't mean it is a simple matter of willpower for every single person. People are different. Free will doesn't demonstrably exist.

There are anecdotes of people getting better from serious illnesses after praying, but you probably wouldn't say that getting healthy all comes down to prayer.

Likewise, physical addiction to a chemical substance isn't something I'd say comes all down to willpower just because of a few exceptional cases.
 
I occasionally enjoy eating fastfood/chips etc, but I'm also responsible so I mainly eat lean proteins, fats and carbohydrates. Would I rather eat a meat-lovers pizza than chicken and Veg in terms of taste/flavour, probably, but I'm also not an idiot and I understand that maintaining my health is more important.
 
I'd like to know how you are so confident when you say this.

People successfully diet without having to undergo rehab - it's a common enough event. It's self-discipline, hard work, motivation and support from loved ones or friends. Food does not have the same kind of withdrawal effects as drugs that complicate quitting drugs, and while the article you cited pointed to sugar withdrawal in rats, there is nothing said about the magnitude of those effects compared to a hard drug.


I said that fatty foods are not in the same class as cocaine addiction-wise - I did not say that food wasn't addictive at all. These studies show similar neurological changes affecting reward-response and decreasing sensitivity towards reward acquisition effects in test subjects. This is important, but the article says nothing about differences between physiological, neurological or behavioral changes beyond reward response. Does eating a muffin give the same euphoria as cocaine? Will you hallucinate if you chow down on a taco? Will you prostitute yourself or kill people for money to get your next case of soda? Will you die from pneumonia, cardiac failure, or damage to the central nervous system by sniffing fresh-baked bread as you may if you sniff glue?

Addiction cannot just be boiled down to factors of reward-response - the picture is far more complex than that because of the specific effects of each type of addictive substances.

Certainly, the mechanisms cited in that article are an important piece of the puzzle and are shared between different kinds of addiction, and the results can be used to help people who have eating disorders. However, the article and the people cited in it do not equate food addiction to cocaine addiction in terms of its severity beyond basic mechanisms of blunting reward response related to possible addiction. There is far more to addiction than just that.

So, I still stand by saying that "food addiction is not in the same class as drug addiction." Food addiction can be serious, but again, to equate it do drug addiction is a gross oversimplification.
 

painey

Member
I watched this and it was your typical American 'shocking facts' show. Complete melodrama and awful word manipulation to make it seem like something is worse than it is. The shocking revelation that food companies try and make you like their product so you buy it. Hard hitting journalism right here folks.
 

Das Boot

Banned
For an example:

McDonald's Hamburger versus any old hamburger you make at home.
There is nothing that can beat a McDonald's Hamburger.

wut.

The hamburgers I have at home are faaar better than mcdonalds burgers. Processed food is terrible in terms of taste compared to real ingredients that are simply cooked.

The reason McDonald's burgers sell so much is more related to cost/benefit/taste analysis when compared to real, homecooked food. People are simply too lazy to cook their own food.

Maybe it is just anecdotal, but no one has ever said to me that they would prefer a mcdonalds burger over a burger cooked at home when given the choice. No one has been like, hey I know you want to make burgers, but lets go to mcdonalds instead because their burgers taste so much better.
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Fuck this, I'm done with packaged food.

edit: LOL, can't stop laughing at Kenny G playing while Morley is walking down the supermarket aisle with a cart.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
Incredibly interesting stuff.
But... I mean... its not difficult or expensive to cook food yourself.
 

LQX

Member
The less I know about how my food is made or even whats in it the better. Rather be clueless than vegetarian.
 
Ah, but is it convenient?


More convenient than to drive ten or so minutes to the restaurant of your choice and wait another ten or so for the food.

Or to drive five minutes to Mcdonald's, wait in line for two, wait five minutes for your food, and then drive back home for five minutes to eat.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
Ah, but is it convenient?
Yes?

e:
Any longform documentaries on this specific subject?
I've seenjust about every food/nutrition related documentary on Netflix, but would LOVE to watch one artificial flavoring. SUUUUPER interesting subject.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
wut.

The hamburgers I have at home are faaar better than mcdonalds burgers. Processed food is terrible in terms of taste compared to real ingredients that are simply cooked.

The reason McDonald's burgers sell so much is more related to cost/benefit/taste analysis when compared to real, homecooked food. People are simply too lazy to cook their own food.

Maybe it is just anecdotal, but no one has ever said to me that they would prefer a mcdonalds burger over a burger cooked at home when given the choice. No one has been like, hey I know you want to make burgers, but lets go to mcdonalds instead because their burgers taste so much better.

The only burgers I like better than fast food burgers, are the occasional bbq burgers I have in the summer, when they get all smokey and are super juicy, yum. But even that might just be because it's variety and a bit of a rare treat - when it comes to taste, fast food is pretty much the king - it's their business.
 

Kinitari

Black Canada Mafia
HOW DARE THOSE GUYS TRY TO MAKE SOMETHING DELICIOUS

I don't think anyone is blaming this company, or implying they are evil - they are doing the most capitalistic thing possible - which... is another reason why I'm not the biggest fan of capitalism.

Edit: I should really be careful with these double posts, gettin too eager.
 

UrokeJoe

Member
They were even talking about flavoring whiskey. WTF!? You already fucked over vodka god dammit! Stay the fuck away from my whisky, whiskey, and bourbon!!
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
When you cook burgers at home, take a jar lid and line it plastic wrap and then form your meat into little perfect flat pattie disks. And cook them with a weight on top. That will give you something really close to a fast food patty. I love home cooked burgers, but cant stand it when theyre like 2 inches thick and so juicy they turn your bun into a wet blood soaked sponge.

They were even talking about flavoring whiskey. WTF!? You already fucked over vodka god dammit! Stay the fuck away from my whisky, whiskey, and bourbon!!
ancient age <3 (just assuming its flavored)
 
This doesn't bother me too much. Where they get much of their flavoring isn't actually that bad. Taste itself is the result of chemicals. Trying to make flavoring as addictive as possible shady, but this isn't anywhere near as shady as other things corporations.
 
I'm working on my Ph.D. in food science. Many of my closest friends focus exclusively on flavor chemistry.

We own your fucking taste buds.
 
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