Ya... tell Eve online that. Individual servers are still needed if you want the game to be responsive.
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Did EverQuest NEXT just changed landscape of MMOGs ?
- Thread starter Perkel
- Start date
Ya... tell Eve online that. Individual servers are still needed if you want the game to be responsive.
EternalTruth
Member
All I need is Oculus Rift support and I am Sold!!!
I like the ideas presented a lot. The devil is really in the execution. There are MMO's already out there that allow users to generate content(DDO and Neverwinter). There are MMO's out there that claimed to be run by user and world events (TSW, GW2). There are also MMO's out there that pronounced superiority over WoW combat (GW2, Tera). None of these churned out to be more than an evolution, at best, in the genre.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very excited about the possibility of a fully realized revolution in the MMO space. But, I won't be convinced until we learn more.
Wasn't there a thread 3 weeks ago or so about why no publisher has created high-budget mine craft clone? Well, here it is!
Don't get me wrong, I'm very excited about the possibility of a fully realized revolution in the MMO space. But, I won't be convinced until we learn more.
Wasn't there a thread 3 weeks ago or so about why no publisher has created high-budget mine craft clone? Well, here it is!
You can have individual servers on the backend. Players should not be presented with them on the frontend anymore, at any time.
edit: I was going to make a thread about this soon anyway, so I'll put my full reasoning there.
vitaminwateryum
corporate swill
What's the alternative to dedicated servers? Multiple instances of areas? If so, I'd take dedicated servers any day of the week.
Riposte
Member
Two thoughts on landmark:
1) To call it Minecraft insults it. Minecraft is stupid simple and all-around just terrible for creative design. It is clearly far beyond that as a set of level building tools.
2) For that very reason, way less people are going to fuck with it and even fewer are going to make anything good. I predict Landmarks, after the initial hype, will provide little entertainment for 95%+ people, just like Halo's forge isn't much of a factor.
Now I'm not saying it will be meaningless and pointless. It will probably make EverQuest NEXT stand out a bit; however, just like it was for LittleBigPlanent and countless other games, it will just be a small feature and it won't revolutionize much outside that game (LBP didn't "change the landscape" of 2D platformers). Player created content, outside the exceptions (which are never limited to in-game tools), just isn't interesting in the long run.
1) To call it Minecraft insults it. Minecraft is stupid simple and all-around just terrible for creative design. It is clearly far beyond that as a set of level building tools.
2) For that very reason, way less people are going to fuck with it and even fewer are going to make anything good. I predict Landmarks, after the initial hype, will provide little entertainment for 95%+ people, just like Halo's forge isn't much of a factor.
Now I'm not saying it will be meaningless and pointless. It will probably make EverQuest NEXT stand out a bit; however, just like it was for LittleBigPlanent and countless other games, it will just be a small feature and it won't revolutionize much outside that game (LBP didn't "change the landscape" of 2D platformers). Player created content, outside the exceptions (which are never limited to in-game tools), just isn't interesting in the long run.
And because terra is gross at end game spam/macro click is better. I like that analogy. Spam click is not answer.
I know. I know also that every other MMO make promises without actually showing anything. What EQN devs showed is actual tech behind those promises. They showed destruction, they showed creating stuff, they showed how they will create world.
Few dudes in Minecraft recreated Lord of The Rings world 1 to 3 scale from fucking Shire to Mount Doom. I do believe that community can put ton of good content into game reviewed by devs.
This is coming from dude who hates WOW, hates Terra, hates 99% out there MMO or MMORPGs. I was there at start of online gaming when i was little kid and EQN feels like fresh air after long decade of stinky odor of closed box design in MMOs.
What i will enjoy the most won't be raids or leveling or fat loot. Just exploring world, fighting in sieges and building walls in newly founded village.
I can be a farmer i can live with that.
I think you are missing whole army of people who will create stuff. I am one of people who play minecraft only to build stuff and there is more people like me. In fact most of people who play minecraft are like me. Just creating stuff.
Also they mentioned you will be able to sell stuff via real money so.... yeah that army will only grow.
Doesn't matter if it provides entertainment for only 5% of people.. it provides content for the people playing Next.
It kills several birds with one stone
1. Attracts minecraft/builders to play, build, and profit from their creations. This expands their playerbase from just MMO players.
2. It allows SOE to keep up with demand for new content for the MMO
3. It gives SOE income from monetizing on the creations, which allows the games to be F2P.
It look incredible, I really hope the can balance the city building element well. There's definitely potential for it to go overboard, but I trust SOE is doing a lot of R&N. God damn, what a fantastic ideal for an MMO.
You can already see a lot of evolution GW2 implemented in this game already, and besides, WoW was just an evolution of exsisting MMO mechanics too. In most cases all it did was refine stuff that was already in EQ,
Guild Wars 2's combat(and PVP) is far superior to WoW's, the game as a whole is league's better. Massive biweekly content patches with no monthly charge, can't beat that.
You can already see a lot of evolution GW2 implemented in this game already, and besides, WoW was just an evolution of exsisting MMO mechanics too. In most cases all it did was refine stuff that was already in EQ,
Guild Wars 2's combat(and PVP) is far superior to WoW's, the game as a whole is league's better. Massive biweekly content patches with no monthly charge, can't beat that.
"EverQuest is another point in the triangle," he says. "We're creating a triangle; it's not just a line anymore."
“We pick what we liked, what we didn't like, and we came up with a list of holy grails that we as designers had always wanted to do, but never had the time or the intestinal fortitude to try before."
"Every player can work together to build a permanent settlement."
"We want people to develop a long, detailed history of their character, so that when they tell others that story, they actually care, as opposed to, 'Yeah, yeah, I did that quest.'"
"That's right. This is an actual game."
- Director of Design David Georgeson
*shows a bunch of concept art and fake gameplay*
Blah blah blah...
“We pick what we liked, what we didn't like, and we came up with a list of holy grails that we as designers had always wanted to do, but never had the time or the intestinal fortitude to try before."
"Every player can work together to build a permanent settlement."
"We want people to develop a long, detailed history of their character, so that when they tell others that story, they actually care, as opposed to, 'Yeah, yeah, I did that quest.'"
"That's right. This is an actual game."
- Director of Design David Georgeson
*shows a bunch of concept art and fake gameplay*
Blah blah blah...
Will the player receive royalties if SOE takes their creations to use in the game? They mentioned this within the framework of Landmark itself, but not if they would receive anything if used in EQN itself.
Yeah they did show fake gameplay but they also did show on stage demo with several people.
Everyone says their game will change things but i rarely see so much stuff as in EQN. This game feels almost unreal.
That is probably how they plan things. They will put their tax on things (20% ? 10% ? 30% ?) and they have very neat idea that if some other player will sell your project that he bough from you, you will still get the share from his transaction.
So actually creator of some creation works more like distributor and people who buy things from creator as shopkeepers in case they sell your project. If for example you will create awesome hose that will be bought by 10 players and those 10 players will further sale it to another 100 players than you will probably get more cash than selling it directly to 20 players.
It is really really really neat idea. I love it.
Riposte
Member
I didn't say it didn't do that. I'm only saying that doesn't lead to some revolution.
Consider instead that, just like with Halo's Forge and whatnot, the actual content of the game remains mostly the same: rearranged maps limited to the same pool of resources with the same mechanics. The whole idea of this being a "builder's" MMO will only be relevant to very few players. I think people are not considering that.
EDIT: Oh, and while it is more content, it doesn't necessarily mean it will content good enough to keep people playing. Most of it will just be people fucking around, having no idea what they are doing. The examples that work will be one or few people bossing other people around. I don't exactly see enthralling end-game content coming out of this either.
EDIT: To make it very simple: player-generated content is not a holy grail. Just like MMO + *your favorite IP* didn't turn out to be a holy grail. It just sounds cool in your head.
They didn't, but they're going after the steam workshop so it'd be a good bet that they will.
Takeda Kenshi
blew Staal
4 total class skills, 4 weapon skills ala Guild Wars 2, and no levels... I don't think so Joel.
Perfect Cha0s
Member
Maybe, we'll see. I've been around the 'pre-launch MMO hype' block enough to know that developers like to garnish their game concepts with grand theoretical examples that never materialize, but I'm not really one to crucify developers for it.
Today they gave us some rough ideas and examples of what they want to game to be about, with actual examples of some environments, parkour-style terrain traversal, and some (IMO, really bad looking) combat. Hardly enough to declare the game has or hasn't revolutionized MMOs.
Today they gave us some rough ideas and examples of what they want to game to be about, with actual examples of some environments, parkour-style terrain traversal, and some (IMO, really bad looking) combat. Hardly enough to declare the game has or hasn't revolutionized MMOs.
This is something to keep in mind, too. I think Landmarks would be better off directly integrated into EQN in some form, but that introduces a lot of logistical and tech-based problems I would imagine.Riposte said:
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I just explained what I think is good about having servers.
If the game isn't instanced, which is what I'm hoping for, then multiple servers will very much be a necessity.
Players need to be presented with it on the frontend if there's no mobility, as there shouldn't be in a game that doesn't use heavy instancing.
Lack of separate servers could work in something that's instanced to all hell, but not in something that has a static and persistent world that needs to be presented in the same fashion to everyone.
Uh... that was the fake gameplay I was referring to. Those guys had no UI on their screen and were spamming the same attack on mobs with no AI. That's not gameplay. A game needs to have some semblance of balance, mechanics and an AI that plays with you or against you. None of that was shown in that live demo.
MMO players miss their first mmo, where they were naive and everything was new and exciting and they spent hours just "discovering" boring shit like the landscape or whatever. After a while, the player becomes savvy and then jaded. They no longer stop and smell the roses; they immediately look up solutions online to minimize their wasted time.
The PR strategy here was to try and exploit the above feelings. They attempted to sell the game as a totally dynamic game where you'll always be exploring and discovering and forging ahead in new territory.
It's all bullshit. If you were fooled by it, you're not nearly cynical enough.
The PR strategy here was to try and exploit the above feelings. They attempted to sell the game as a totally dynamic game where you'll always be exploring and discovering and forging ahead in new territory.
It's all bullshit. If you were fooled by it, you're not nearly cynical enough.
Content that will go into EQN will be reviewed by devs. Devs will also put leaderboards and check list of what it needs to be if they want something.
Landmark is other things that completely does not to be controlled by devs same as minecraft.
First of all game is created. It is not even in alpha so for example playable UI may not even be in the game. AI is the same. Only that demon had AI working where rest of those things just stayed in place.
Point is this demo presented tech. Destruction and graphics. They beside classes and movement didn't talk about mechanics of gamplay at all. This conference was all about promises and tech they are using to achieve that.
krypt0nian
Banned
Yes because Blizzard and WoW when talking about MMOs is such a leap.
You're still fucking nuts.
EXACTLY
You know, for a game you don't care about, you sure love to post about it.
Unknown Soldier
Member
And you're the one wildly hurling insults here like I said something bad about your lover.
MMOs always bring out the most irrational defenders.
JetBlackPanda
Member
this was the first reveal ever for this game. Give them a little time man.
Perkel, I can sorta see what type of games you like based on your comments in PoE,D3 and this thread :d
But honestly, nope. It did not change anything. Yet.
EQN seems to be one possible answer to many people that hate the -otherwise, completely fine, see: WoW - theme park design of the current MMO's.
It has good ideas, but I have my reservations.
a. Yeah, talking about how we all played D&D and then announce multiclasses (a staple feature of DnD and many other rpg's from the...past 30 years) and weapon-based skills (again, should I cite WoW or GW2 as examples that did this as well? Or FFXI/XIV?) does not exactly scream "WE GOT THIS" from a gameplay perspective.
b. I can totally see EQN being amazing, and I will consider its requirements the next time I upgrade my PC. Plan on being there day one. But so far, the only big "selling" points - for me, at least - are the visuals (bar the currently horrid animations, compared to the silky smoothness of WoW, for example), the idea itself, and the perverse fun I had when doing the AQ gate opening event as someone who just leveled around that time and so was only able to support the server with materials. I love gathering stuff, and if this game allows it in an interesting way, then that is amazing....
... but really, the regenerating enviromnents scream STATIC. The events...scream static. Yeah, it depends on the execution, and the realm start dates, but the only way to not let this fall back to the top guilds on the server dictating the "most optimal" direction the known events will have to go is to either not repeat any events across servers (or when opening new ones) or to simply min-max it in a very efficient manner that really lets people experiment with all options without punishment.
Really, I love LEGO and Minecraft, but I love the idea more that somewhere, out there, a team is making a game that is capable of surprising me when it comes to gameplay depth, variety AND balance. Without that, all the building/destroying/voxel/exploration features will be less awesome - for me.
Or, worst case scenario, it is F2P, so we just jump in and the fun will last as long as it will last.
But honestly, nope. It did not change anything. Yet.
EQN seems to be one possible answer to many people that hate the -otherwise, completely fine, see: WoW - theme park design of the current MMO's.
It has good ideas, but I have my reservations.
a. Yeah, talking about how we all played D&D and then announce multiclasses (a staple feature of DnD and many other rpg's from the...past 30 years) and weapon-based skills (again, should I cite WoW or GW2 as examples that did this as well? Or FFXI/XIV?) does not exactly scream "WE GOT THIS" from a gameplay perspective.
b. I can totally see EQN being amazing, and I will consider its requirements the next time I upgrade my PC. Plan on being there day one. But so far, the only big "selling" points - for me, at least - are the visuals (bar the currently horrid animations, compared to the silky smoothness of WoW, for example), the idea itself, and the perverse fun I had when doing the AQ gate opening event as someone who just leveled around that time and so was only able to support the server with materials. I love gathering stuff, and if this game allows it in an interesting way, then that is amazing....
... but really, the regenerating enviromnents scream STATIC. The events...scream static. Yeah, it depends on the execution, and the realm start dates, but the only way to not let this fall back to the top guilds on the server dictating the "most optimal" direction the known events will have to go is to either not repeat any events across servers (or when opening new ones) or to simply min-max it in a very efficient manner that really lets people experiment with all options without punishment.
Really, I love LEGO and Minecraft, but I love the idea more that somewhere, out there, a team is making a game that is capable of surprising me when it comes to gameplay depth, variety AND balance. Without that, all the building/destroying/voxel/exploration features will be less awesome - for me.
Or, worst case scenario, it is F2P, so we just jump in and the fun will last as long as it will last.
krypt0nian
Banned
Wildly hurling insults? I think you're fucking nuts. Quite calmly. The one that directed the thread to note that I brought up WoW first. LOLOL
SatelliteOfLove
Member
WeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEeeell then...I may have been overprotective in the other threads about MMO Hype. Granted, they have to execute on this, but one vital step has went off smoothly.
Also, the art isn't ass like previous EQs!
Coffee Dog
Banned
While I see what's technologically impressive about this, nothing really sounds appealing from a game design standpoint. The world is just going to be craters after like, a month.
They're obviously going to reset the environment regularly.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I've read that the terrain will procedurally regenerate after a certain amount of time.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I'm waiting for the meltdown. It seems close now.
It's no fun unless you can dig a deep hole under player spawn points, so when they appear they immediately fall to their deaths, and when they respawn they immediately fall again.
That's what's interesting to me, people will fight back against that sort of thing not by complaining on forums but by actually rebuilding the world and actively participating in it.
RoninChaos
Member
... but you're sitting here saying this tech demo just changed the MMO market... but it's a tech demo.
... how's that work?
I don't spam macros in any mmos I play but I know you're using hyperbole. I can't really understand your post, but I have tried action mmorpgs and they are universally button mashers. What I saw of this game is no different.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Destruction is always easier than creation. Always. Unless they let you build things instantly as fast as you can destroy them, in which case players will build tall walls around player spawn points so players who spawn there are trapped.
What is to stop me from going to the starting area and simply blasting fireballs at the same spot to dig a giant hole for new players to fall into? And then what mechanics exist for players to fill in the giant holes that I might have dug? And if I can fill in holes, what prevents me from building giant walls around areas to trap people inside? Because I can guarantee you that there are trolls that want to do all these things.
They've been doing this Steam Workshop like program they call Player Studio for a few of their games now. Their revenue split for community items sold through their marketplace is 40% to the creator.
Torquill
Member
To answer the OP no. They haven't actually done anything yet. They talked a big game, but the grails they are espousing are much easier to target than they are to actually implement in a fun way that scales to a massive multiplayer level.
Don't get me wrong. Innovation of this type is exactly what this genre needs more than anything. But it would be very easy to... Molyneux the heck out of that feature set.
I maintain a hopeful skepticism until they can demonstrate gameplay beyond executing animations on packs of helpless goblins that can't fight back. ; p
Don't get me wrong. Innovation of this type is exactly what this genre needs more than anything. But it would be very easy to... Molyneux the heck out of that feature set.
I maintain a hopeful skepticism until they can demonstrate gameplay beyond executing animations on packs of helpless goblins that can't fight back. ; p
I might sound pessimistic in my posts. To a certain extent I am, but I am also exited about the potential, which I why I like to talk about it.
Fact is though, I do like where they are aiming for. It would have been better if they actually had many of these ideas working before they started talking about them. Many of these things have been dreamed about MMO developers for over a decade, yet none has delivered on that promise. EQN is just the latest in a long line of would-be's like Darkfall, Warhammer and the like.
It's great that they are shooting high. Everyone should. But it is one thing to shoot high and another thing to actually hit the target. Right now they're saying "hey guys, we're finally shooting for the stars!" but no one has build a bow that can actually do that yet.
It's like going to Mars. We have the technology to get there and we know how to do it in theory. Yet we haven't cause it's a lot harder than it looks.
Fact is though, I do like where they are aiming for. It would have been better if they actually had many of these ideas working before they started talking about them. Many of these things have been dreamed about MMO developers for over a decade, yet none has delivered on that promise. EQN is just the latest in a long line of would-be's like Darkfall, Warhammer and the like.
It's great that they are shooting high. Everyone should. But it is one thing to shoot high and another thing to actually hit the target. Right now they're saying "hey guys, we're finally shooting for the stars!" but no one has build a bow that can actually do that yet.
It's like going to Mars. We have the technology to get there and we know how to do it in theory. Yet we haven't cause it's a lot harder than it looks.
Yes, but he's talking about items used by SOE, not ones sold to other players.
No.
Everquest Next: Landscape - Where you build cool stuff only on YOUR plot of land.
Everquest Next - the coolest stuff from Landscape makes it into this game.
It's curated between the games.