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Did General Zod realize that if he terraformed Earth he'd lose powers? (MoS)
- Thread starter T'Zariah
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Enosh
Member
the coup is because he thinks the current rulers are endangering krypton, he didn't do it just because he wanted power
The Abominable Snowman
Member
This movie ranks right in there alongside Transformers 2 in the story department anyway. Don't think about it too hard. Movie wasn't even good.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
then why did superman get weak on the ship in earths orbit with kryptons atmosphere? From what I remember Jor El said it was our atmosphere that would nourish Kal El's powers to manifest in conjunction with the yellow sun.
Yes they overlooked how easily the Kryptonians could've taken plenty of time to do what they needed and get Kal to give them the codex without absolute immunity ...it was a stupid move.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
So why did Zod HATE superman? Cause he was a natural birth? I thought his reasoning for staging a coup was because he disagreed with Krypton's policies. "Degenerative bloodlines" and all that. Also he seemed nice enough at first until he had the bright idea to show him DROWNING IN SKULLS
The codex dude
Dreamgazer
Member
Lois Lane falling to earth while a bunch of debris is gravitate toward the sky does not look or sound cool.
It just makes me wonder if she weighs
Yeah, yeah, her weight would not explain that phenomenon. Science
TheKaeptain
Banned
NobleGundam
Banned
This OP. It's depends on the sun that gives them the power, takes away, or no powers at all. Zod doesn't care if he has the powers or not so long as his home is rebuilt along with the restoration of kryptonians.
I haven't seen the movie (is it on Netflix yet?), but if his one goal was the survival of Krypton, he should've terraformed a planet that didn't have a Superman protecting it. Not out of kindness or empathy, but out of pragmatism.
So it sounds like he let his anger and hubris get in the way of achieving his objective.
That's like saying Clark loses his powers around Kryptonite regardless of if the sun is out or not... so no, what you said is not true.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Because if he terraforms a planet with nobody on it then he has a 100% chance of success but if he terraforms a planet full of people and a superpowered being he has a lower chance of success? Wouldn't that be the logic of somebody who's only goal is to keep his race alive?
Yes, but Zod's conception of Krypton was narrow. Consider this: Zod had everything he needed to resume the Kryptonian race (sans a planet) on the Black Zero alone... the only thing stopping him? The conviction that natural birth is heresy.
He's genetically predisposed (and possibly somatically trained) to hold that conviction so strongly that he'd rather his species go extinct than attempt to repopulate through natural birth. Does that sound like someone willing to accept a chaotic society of super-beings? Let's no forget that he was sentenced attempting a coup.
Those who rebel and betray have the tendency to fear betrayal themselves and worry about traitors in their midst. This is reinforced by the fact Zod only trusted a total of two Kryptonians and himself to go to Earth and gain access to super powers. If Zod absolutely trusted his crew, there's no reason he couldn't have drop-shipped them all around the planet to enforce his plan... but Zod would have good reason to doubt if someone like, say, Jax-Ur were to taste that power... whether they would cooperate and give it up out of loyalty to his plan.
You pointed out the issue yourself, how would you rule over and order a society of super-beings? Whereas with normal beings the military caste would still be able to control things by force.
Another quick point: The Phantom Drive is finite. If it was an infinitely renewable resource, then Krypton could have stopped mining its core and wouldn't have died. That means that Zod had a limited number of jumps and opportunities to use the World Engine. That means Zod had to be confident it would work to risk expending their finite Phantom Drive. There were no sister planets and no living colonies. To our knowledge, nothing had ever been successfully or permanently terraformed. That means the parameters for terraforming are far more narrow than detractors who think Zod could have terraformed Mars or any arbitrary rock incorrectly presume. It also means that Zod was predisposed to terraform Earth under any circumstance. Jor-El knew this. That's why he conveys the plan to Lois even before Zod releases the World Engine.
Lastly: Zod would have come to Earth irrespective of Clark. Zod characterizes the signal as a distress beacon. A distress beacon means the ship is calling out to Kryptonians for help. When Clark stepped onto the ship, it was ALREADY active. The Sentry floated behind him and attacked him BEFORE he fully inserted the Command Key. Once inserted, the Sentry stopped attacking. Clark's insertion of the Key triggered the distress signal makes no sense... if the Ship is calling out for Kryptonians, the Key indicates that They are there... the very reason the Sentry stops attacking. If the Key is calling out, that contradicts Jor-El's understanding (that Krypton is dead) and intentions (that Kal-El grow up without Kryptonian cultural interference, why he and Lara believed, with conviction, that they couldn't go with him)... if Jor-El believed, at the expense of his life, that he was unfit to travel with Kal-El, why would he call out to random Kryptonians to join him? Rather, the far more logical scenario is that breach of the ship and engaging the Sentry resulted in the ship sending a distress beacon... something the military was sure to do if Clark hadn't. Zod's arrival was inevitable. Zod still would have come for the Genesis Chamber and likely terraformed the Earth... the only difference is that Clark's actions prepared him to face Zod.
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby... give it up, man.
You, me and several others have repeatedly explained in great detail why he didn't care about his powers, why he didn't choose another planet, why he never had any intention of being friends with Clark, why he needed Lois on the ship, etc, etc. It never sticks. Ever.
At this point these threads just point out to me who didn't actually watch or pay attention to the movie. So I just read their comments and have a good laugh.
I have popcorn. Join me.
EDIT: You too, Dave!
You, me and several others have repeatedly explained in great detail why he didn't care about his powers, why he didn't choose another planet, why he never had any intention of being friends with Clark, why he needed Lois on the ship, etc, etc. It never sticks. Ever.
At this point these threads just point out to me who didn't actually watch or pay attention to the movie. So I just read their comments and have a good laugh.
I have popcorn. Join me.
EDIT: You too, Dave!
TheKaeptain
Banned
You're forgetting that the world machine used our own resources to start terraforming. Plus he needed Clark.
He can't terraform and repopulate Krypton anywhere else is the universe because Kal-El has the entire genetic code of Kryptonians. As they can't be born by natural birth, he needs it, that's why he needs earth, because Kal-el is there.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
well shit, Dave's here. I can put my feet up! 
Orbis Tabula
Member
So what's the reason for this? Because paying attention to the movie wont explain it.
The only reasoning I can think of is for questioning and that's a reach. They couldn't even uncover she had the black stick of destiny on her.
Hmm... I must have missed that, with the whole "if you get closer to that thing you'll lose your powers" thing I assumed a lot of it had to do with Earth vs. Krypton.
He wasn't looking for the stick. He wanted the codex. He thought Kal-El had the skull. He didn't learn until later it was in Kal's cells.
That's why he brought Lois. In case Superman resisted or was immune to their mind reading maybe he could get it from Lois. Neither knew what the hell Zod was talking about though so it didn't matter anyway.
You want a plothole, how did Zod even think Lois of all the people on Earth would know? Hmm?
This is why the questioning reasoning is a stretch.
I know he wanted the codex but it seems weird they don't do a pat down of Lois or their mind reading machine couldn't detect what Superman just gave her a few minutes earlier.
All that really needed was a line from Zod where he says he's been watching Clark or something. Still kind of a eh explanation but better than the zero reasoning.
Wait, Lois was outed by that Blogger she gave the story to, about the alien. This is why the government went after her. It was all over the news that Lois knew the Kryptonian living amongst the humans.
Rumor and speculation at best.
Plus they already had the Kryptonian at that point. They had no need for her.
Sure it does. Why was Lois special to the U.S. Government? She was alleged to have unique and confidential information about Kal-El. That allegation was broadcast on television, the very same televisions that Zod was able to command to deliver his multilingual ultimatum.
Zod wants one thing, but it's the very same thing that is his sole weakness in this encounter. If he were adept at diplomacy or guile he could have went about this differently, but in Krypton's caste system his toolbox is limited... rather than petitioning the Council he attempts a coup, rather than pretending to come in peace he issues an ultimatum. Nonetheless, he has enough sense to not ask for it directly. The only thing he wants or needs from humanity is information about the Codex. Sure, he could have terraformed the planet as his first strike... but then he may have spent a lifetime digging through rubble looking for it... if it wasn't destroyed in the process or in retaliation. He can't reveal that desire and give humanity over his only reason for sparing them up to this point.
So, quite reasonably, he indirectly asks for the two individuals on the planet that he is aware of most likely having information about the Codex: Kal-El and his human female confidant. He has reliable interrogation technology, so once they're aboard he can drop any pretense of treaty.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
They tell him on the ship that he's just not used to Krypton's atmosphere, that's why he can't handle it.
D.Lo
Member
So Superman loses all his powers at night?
To quote myself, MOS is like a Hulk vs Aliens movie written by a toddler and directed by Michael Bay. There is nothing of value in MoS.
Wait, what are you two arguing about?
Now you're just being dense.
Manmademan
Member
Earth's sun gave him his powers, but there is no "kryptonite" in the movie universe. It's the atmosphere of Krypton that depowers them. This is why they had no powers on the ship, and the world engine was such a threat- because it was cranking out kryptonian atmosphere and robbing clark of his powers at the same time it was tearing the world up.
So yes, terraforming earth would have robbed Zod of his powers, but Zod didn't care- his sole purpose was bringing his people back from the dead. This wasn't 80s Zod that wanted to rule over people as a superhuman king, he had a job to do.
Actionable in either case. From Zod's perspective, the planet's authorities seized her based on this allegation. If they had reason or interest to believe in information, why would he discard that opportunity? He didn't specifically ask for Lois to be there, but clearly they were monitoring closely enough that they recognized her on site. Since the opportunity presented itself, there was no reason not to take it. They didn't need to do the bare minimum based on need alone.
(And that's it, I've got a dinner party to go to!)
Rumor and speculation?
She was with the Government when they went to pick up Supes. Why was she there with him if it was "rumor" or speculation?
Remember the story she gave the blogger detailed what happened to her in the Kryptonian ship. That story alone proves at the very least that she knew more than most humans.
Zod had Kal-El and the article, to my knowledge, made no mention of the Codex. It was just a story about an alien that saved her. Still not seeing why he bothers asking her on the ship when there is no reasonable expectation she would know.
I could see if he needed to still find Kal-El but at that point it was moot.
Jest Chillin
Member
Maybe I have the wrong interpretation.. but I always thought the segment of the line "it's atmosphere is more nourishing" was in reference to the Radiation from the Sun.
As in.. because Earth orbits a Yellow Sun.. the atmosphere has it's radiation enveloped in it while the Kryptonian atmosphere doesn't because it had no Yellow Sun.
As in.. because Earth orbits a Yellow Sun.. the atmosphere has it's radiation enveloped in it while the Kryptonian atmosphere doesn't because it had no Yellow Sun.
He has the broadcast where the blogger says that Lane knows who Kal-El is and, from Zod's ultimatum, he made it clear that Kal-El has kept himself hidden "for reasons unknown"... so the idea that Kal-El allowed someone into his circle of confidence is enough reason to interrogate her as well. If Kal-El entrusted her with his identity, who knows what else- read: The Codex- he may have entrusted her with.
However, none of this is need driven, it simply was an opportunity that presented itself.
(And I'm late!)
For those confused about the powers, this podcast goes into it in-depth with a crazy chart, etc.
http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/6-weaknesses-part-1-atmospheric-explanation-environment-equipment/
Fine enough explanation I suppose but with no line of dialog for why they bothered, no interrogation scene of Lois and not even being able to find the black stick of destiny Clark hands her minutes earlier that's ultimately the reason they escape(I would assume they would want to interrogate her as soon as possible) it's still a bit of a stretch.
But it's something you can at least work with.
TacticalFox88
Banned
You know you've never articulated whether you enjoyed MoS or not.
Can Crusher
Banned
The sun, radiation and shit. That's why Batman wins, he only comes to throw bungaloos during the night. He has his number.
It is a comic.
Rumor that only ever had one source. Wasn't a very reliable source at that.
I figured that was just from breathing in new air, something your body isn't used to will make you feel like crap. Zod did say that's just him getting acquainted with Krypton's atmosphere.
I felt like it was... similar to someone who suddenly jumped into keto. The first few days, your body goes into a mini-flu and you feel like crap, until your body becomes used to it.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
It is implied with the rather awful "I will find him" scene that Kryptonians don't take well to other planets for some bizarre reason.
aka E-arth is special because plot requirement.
However,
if we assume for a moment that there is something to this, than Kryptonians not being viable anywhere else can probably be easily explained by their (non-sensical imo) genetic programming. How would a species adapt to another world if they are literally programmed not to be able to do so?
I suppose this was meant to demonstrate that Kryptonian society was inherently doomed and could only be redeemed or perhaps, as Zod assumes, rebooted, by a <strike>Radio Free Jezus</strike> natural birth.
If the movie wasn't a mess and had bothered to explain this pattern properly, it would also have made Zod's eventual adaption but inherent limitation to his programming more sensical.
But it is a mess, so it doesn't matter.
RANT TIME! :
oh, and Kevin Costner is in the movie like ONE full minute as manages to out-act every single asshole in this movie, even when Russell Crowe plays the world's most excellent AI in cinematic history ever.
Hell, in my mind, I imagine Lawrence Fishburne casually drinking thea while holding that woman's hand while Amy Adams continues to believes she's playing a friggin' deer (seriously, what a waste! ) , while a lost Mads Nickelsen walks unto the scene and Fishburne invites him to drink some thea with him, because it's not like they've got something better to do. "hey hannibal! I got a thea cup." *facial muscle twitch*
/ RANT
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