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Did Goldeneye on N64 really run at 10-15 FPS in some areas?
- Thread starter Gamezone
- Start date
Gamezone
Gold Member
#Phonepunk#
Banned
yeah all the N64 games run like crap
at the time i had a PC, so i was blissfully unaware. 60fps Tomb Raider in 1996...
at the time i had a PC, so i was blissfully unaware. 60fps Tomb Raider in 1996...
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
yeah it's mindblowing that the game ran like crap in single player yet 4 player mode was still a blast. how did they do that? thats some tech wizardry
LostDonkey
Member
Slaps only so it didn't matter
BusierDonkey
Member
I think you meant to say N64 ran like glorious shit.
I remember playing Mario Kart 64 battle mode on Block Fort with my older brother to 99 wins. It was actually still fun right up to the 99th win.
V4skunk
Banned
Meh, my favourite was F-Zero X, 60fps FTW.
iconmaster
Banned
...and we liked it!
EverydayBeast
ChatShitGPT Alpha 0.001
I was hoping he'd go in on Goldeneye Source
It was a more innocent time. There were no standards for the type of thing back then. Goldeneye in every facet was an unprecedented experience at that point, particularly on consoles. People just didn't care about frame rates as much back then. They just wanted an excuse to crowd around a television with friends.
Sipheren07
Neo Member
It's really interesting how fps and what not just wasn't much of an issue. I played the shit our of Goldeneye, OoT and Perfect Dark and thought they ran and looked amazing lol
Even when comparing to my mates PlayStation, oh the arguments had over which one was better
Even when comparing to my mates PlayStation, oh the arguments had over which one was better
TheDuskwalker
Member
It is kind of fun going back to old games like this you loved, only to be wowed at there technical issues, or discovering why you always thought something felt off about a game you liked as a kid since you didn't understand framerates back then. Can only imagine what it's like for PAL......
stargateheaven
Member
yeah.
and not these kids these days "30fps is a slideshow".
lol
and not these kids these days "30fps is a slideshow".
lol
Sipheren07
Neo Member
Yeah, I never knew about the 50/60Hz difference, going back to my original consoles now after playing in emulation feels so slow lol
Velius
Banned
Fucking kek dude
ToadMan
Member
The other thing is, performance problems were common across all platforms in those days - even PC and other home computer games would get bogged down on the latest hardware for the time.
So for a ground breaking game, the trade off wasn't considered such a big deal compared to these days.
So for a ground breaking game, the trade off wasn't considered such a big deal compared to these days.
nkarafo
Member
That hyperbole.
It's funny how only the N64 has that reputation when the Saturn had it even worse in most cases.
Truth is 3D graphics back in those days had pretty low standards across all systems. There was also the PAL vs NTSC thing where European players had even slower games.
You can improve frame rate with emulation. In PJ64 you can set counter factor to "1". In Mupen the same option is called "CountPerOp", set it to "1" as well. This should make it a bit more stable overall.
More recent versions on PJ64 also have native overclocking. By setting it to 2x or 3x you are pretty much locked at 30/60fps all the time. Lastly, there are some old hacked versions of 1964 that allow 60fps but i had some sound issues in the past with those, i don't know if they are better now.
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Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
I WISH!
benjohn
Member
Yeah, 3D graphics wasn't really smooth back then, But both saturn and PSX ran games generally much smoother. There are a ton of 60 fps games on both systems but not so much on N64 sadly. Don't get me wrong N64 is still a great system but not when it comes to FPS.
nkarafo
Member
That depends on the games. For instance, a Wipeout fan would disagree with you as the Saturn port was 20fps and the N64 was stable 30. Same with other multiplatform games, Shadowman (my favorite 3D adventure during that gen) was much smoother on the N64, even with the expansion pack features, compared to the PS1 version.
It's only because of Goldeneye's/RARE's popularity that the N64 got that rep. Just like how it got the reputation of "foggy games" because of the popularity of Turok, despite most full 3D fps games with outdoor environments having the same issue across all consoles.
I agree that the PS1 and the Saturn had more 60fps games but they also had more games in general so it makes sense.
benjohn
Member
Sure, we can analyse on game to game basis and find instances that contradict my statement. The point is generally speaking, N64 games suffer from low-fps a lot more than Saturn and PSX. I can only name two 60 FPS games on 64 :F-Zero, Smash (there maybe a few others that escape me) but a ton on Saturn and PSX. Those 30FPS games also suffer from huge drops like the game that OP mentions. N64 is fantastic but isn't famous for smooth frame rates sadly
nkarafo
Member
Again, you have to take into consideration that the N64 only had around 350+ games released while the Saturn had 1000+ and the PS1 more than 2k games. More games = more chances to see a 60fps game.
The "only 2 games" vs "a ton" also makes the difference look much bigger than it really is. There was a list in Sega 16 with all 60fps games in all systems and there were 7 N64 games vs 29 on the Saturn. N64 games included a few fighting games that run at 60fps like KI and MK4. The Saturn (which got almost 3x as many games released) has around 4x more 60fps games but most are 2D and they even included Panzer Dragoon II Zwei in the list because the cut-scenes run at 60fps. So i don't see that much of a difference, it's pretty balanced if we take the library size into account.
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benjohn
Member
I think I agree with you on 60 fos games. If you put it that way the diffrence is not huge. Still the frame drops in games and general fps stability on the system is a letdown for me.
N64 is considered the most powerful system in that generation I agree in many cases. I wish developers didn't push the platform that much though
Man that generation is my all time favourite. So many great games and so many great consoles
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Castef
Banned
Back then people was not looking for photorealistic experiences. Videogames was known to be a bit janky, so that framerate was absolutely ok.
I played a lot of games on an Amiga computer and a lot of them - expecially the 3D ones - ran very badly. Yet, fond memories all over the place.
I played a lot of games on an Amiga computer and a lot of them - expecially the 3D ones - ran very badly. Yet, fond memories all over the place.
nkarafo
Member
Maybe i was lucky and most of the games i bought were more stable. Sure i did bought a few bad ones, like Turok 2 which is is the worst offender IMO and i did have Goldeneye, Jet Force Gemini and PD that suffered from frame rate issues. But i also had DOOM 64 (the smoothest, best looking Doom console game), F-Zero X, Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Wipeout, Shadowman, Top Gear Rally, Mario Kart, Turok 1, Ridge Racer, Duke Nukem 64, Mischief Makers, Yoshi's Story and Quake 2. None of these games had issues with frame rate. There were also some 20fps games like the Zelda ones and Waverace but at least those were 100% stable. Lastly i had Starfox, this one has slight FPS problems but nowhere near as bad as PD or Turok 2.
benjohn
Member
funny thing is that a lot of us didn't pay attention to frame drops at all and I go as far as to say we didn't even notice it. I personally enjoyed a lot of those games back then. SotC is on the PS2 is one those games that I enjoyed so much. Now I'm surprised that game ran that low on FPS. I didn't even notice.
That's not entirely true, though.
3D graphics at home, yes, weren't great initially but 2D games on consoles were almost always 60 frames per second. It was the standard.
...and honestly, many of the best 3D games that generation run at 30 or 60fps as well. It just so happens that a few memorable games, like Goldeneye, always ran at very low frame-rates. It wasn't THAT common, though. I play a lot of these systems on a regular basis and I'm surprised at how fast loading is and how reasonable performance is.
Castef
Banned
MMMMMH... I don't know if every 2D game back then ran at 60FPS actually.
benjohn
Member
2D games ran at 60 but I argue that generation is mostly remebered as the "first" 3D generation and most generation-defining games are 3D ones. Retrospectively 2D games standout much more but mor focus on 3D games took its toll nevertheless
i remember when i first saw star fox my brain was trying so hard to comprehend what was going onscreen the 20 fps or whatever seemed perfectly natural. and i guess that sort of comprehension uniformly progressed into the chuggy 32/64 bit era
wasn't until 5 or so years ago i was cognizant enough to discern sub 30 and 60 and so on
wasn't until 5 or so years ago i was cognizant enough to discern sub 30 and 60 and so on
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nkarafo
Member
They did. From the Atari 2600 up to the 16bit consoles. 30fps games existed ofc but they were the exception.
On home computers and PCs games were not as smooth though because their hardware was not good for fast scrolling.
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Ichabod
Banned
This. For example, I remember being blown away by the fact that if I shot someone in the leg they actually reacted to getting shot in the leg (and would even limp!). It ruined other shooters that didn't have this going forward, for me.
They absolutely did starting with the Atari 2600. They ran at the refresh rates of televisions. 95% of the games released on these consoles were 60fps. Heck, even Game Boy games are.
There ARE some 30fps games on these machines - Super Double Dragon, Chakan: The Forever Man and the first Streets of Rage (not 2 or 3, though). Those games all feel pretty jerky compared to basically everything else on the platform.
Classic console games also don't usually support frame skipping due to how the hardware works hence the term 'slowdown' - in games where the frame-rate buckled, the game would actually slow down while drawing every frame. This is the issue with stuff like Gradius 3 on Super NES - it aims for 60fps but, when it can't hit that, it actually runs in slow motion. Thankfully, this isn't too common.
Yeah, this is absolutely true. Computers weren't well suited to smooth scrolling and very few games offered it. It was possible on the C64 and the Amiga, I suppose, and a few IBM PC games pulled it off but it was the exception.
Consoles, however, had specific hardware registers designed to move tilemaps and sprites at 60hz.
Z..
Member
I didn't really "get" the 5th gen for this same reason. Everything ran like shit everywhere and 3D games looked like crap to me at the time.
Panzer Dragoon making me go wow at the video store and Tekken 3 at my neighbour's house aside, I didn't much care for console gaming during those days. Arcade and PC was where it was it for me. Silly of me, plenty of great gems came out of that gen, but yor critical thinking just isn't the best when you're 8~13.
Panzer Dragoon making me go wow at the video store and Tekken 3 at my neighbour's house aside, I didn't much care for console gaming during those days. Arcade and PC was where it was it for me. Silly of me, plenty of great gems came out of that gen, but yor critical thinking just isn't the best when you're 8~13.
nkarafo
Member
Ι thought the same thing when i first played Half-Life. It was this hyped industry changing revolutionary game and all, but coming from Goldeneye i couldn't ignore some of it's regressions. Like the lack of body part-specific hit boxes, the different reactions and different amounts of damage done.
Sonic Spinball on the Genesis/Mega Drive was ruined for me for this reason.
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LegendOfKage
Member
N64 games did not age as well as their sprite-based counterparts. If they ever make an N64 classic, they're going to have to at least touch up the resolution and frame rates.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Goldeneye was back when gamers were
mwn who didn't cry that their twitch shooters were 60fps. We just got on with that shit and had fun, with people right next to us.
Good times. The best times.
mwn who didn't cry that their twitch shooters were 60fps. We just got on with that shit and had fun, with people right next to us.
Good times. The best times.
Redneckerz
Banned
Did you know....???
....That Goldeneye has been the basis for a standalone mod regarding Goldfinger, with huge levels, running natively on N64?
Check it out.
....That Goldeneye has been the basis for a standalone mod regarding Goldfinger, with huge levels, running natively on N64?
Check it out.
captainraincoat
Banned
If I remember there was a gas or smoke bomb and it was a legitimate tactic to lag the game out