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Digital Foundry: Deathloop PC vs PS5, Optimised Settings, Performance Testing + More

Riky

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Read the fine print.
Introducing Xbox Series X - our fastest, most powerful console ever.

our
/ˈou(ə)r,är/
determiner
  1. belonging to or associated with the speaker and one or more other people previously mentioned or easily identified.
    "Jo and I had our hair cut"
  2. used by a writer, editor, or monarch to refer to something belonging to or associated with himself or herself.
    "we want to know what you, our readers, think"

The headline says it all, the reason they say "our" on the small print is because it mentions "fastest" and by clock speed it isn't.

They can say it is the World's most powerful console because it is.
 
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01011001

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The headline says it all, the reason they say "our" on the small print is because it mentions "fastest" and by clock speed it isn't.

They can say it is the World's most powerful console because it is.

they could also say fastest, but it only is thw fastest in terms of CPU clocks, so it would come across as disingenuous
 

Mr Moose

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The headline says it all, the reason they say "our" on the small print is because it mentions "fastest" and by clock speed it isn't.

They can say it is the World's most powerful console because it is.
This will always be funny:

MicroSoft were selling PS4's, apparently.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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On PS5 dev kits? 🤷‍♂️
Wait... You honestly believe games are fully made on ps5 dev kits?! You honestly believe the full UE5 editor, is fully playable on ps5? Like being able to to do everything in the PC version, and then some?! Not even including ZBrush and other software?!



Holy shit, let's get together and you can give me your bank account info. Let's make a game together, involving bridges for sale, or even ocean front property for sale. Kinda like a real estate broker game, but involving your money, and my pockets.
 
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Loxus

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Hey champ not sure where the 16 billion triangles are coming from but the first ue5 demo isn't doing that either....... Oh yeh it also did run on pc.

I linked all my sources.
Unreal Engine 5 PS5 Demo and Digital Foundry, next time read before you post.

I don't see any gameplay in that video, just people more around in the model space. Next time come better.
 
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Loxus

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Wait... You honestly believe games are fully made on ps5 dev kits?! You honestly believe the full UE5 editor, is fully playable on ps5? Like being able to to do everything in the PC version, and then some?! Not even including ZBrush and other software?!



Holy shit, let's get together and you can give me your bank account info. Let's make a game together, involving bridges for sale, or even ocean front property for sale. Kinda like a real estate broker game, but involving your money, and my pockets.
Hey, i'm not saying PC can't run Unreal Engine 5 demo, but what is the triangle count and texture size?

Tim said Unreal Engine 5 is scalable. You really expect the Unreal Engine 5 PS5 demo to run on all hardware without cut backs.

PC still haven't shown any gameplay better looking then the PS5 Demo so far.
You can't show me any game running on a similar spec PC looking better than the Demo.

Not to mention the PC specs.
Y'all always bring up a 3090 to go against a PS5. Like come, that thing cost $1000+.

Edit:
When the PS5 dev kits were going out, PC had no SSD that can do decompression as fast as the PS5. So how you gonna make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart on a PC?
 
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rodrigolfp

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PC gaming is great because of freedom.
Look at Steam Deck. Freedom in a handheld. It's less powerful than other options, but you have freedom.

Of course materialistic people enjoy pc because there is always something new to upgrade to in an attempt to fill the hole in their soul, but that doesn't mean you need to if you just enjoy using it.
It was supposed to be sarcasm. :)
 

Snake29

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Hey champ not sure where the 16 billion triangles are coming from but the first ue5 demo isn't doing that either....... Oh yeh it also did run on pc.


Na he specifically says "in editor mode". That's not the same as "running it with all effects on, animation, physics etc.

That's just free cam over the map. PS5 demo was realtime gameplay, this is just editor mode.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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Hey, i'm not saying PC can't run Unreal Engine 5 demo, but what is the triangle count and texture size?

Tim said Unreal Engine 5 is scalable. You really expect the Unreal Engine 5 PS5 demo to run on all hardware without cut backs.

PC still haven't shown any gameplay better looking then the PS5 Demo so far.
You can't show me any game running on a similar spec PC looking better than the Demo.

Not to mention the PC specs.
Y'all always bring up a 3090 to go against a PS5. Like come, that thing cost $1000+.

Edit:
When the PS5 dev kits were going out, PC had no SSD that can do decompression as fast as the PS5. So how you gonna make Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart on a PC?
My sweet summer child, R&C could be on ps4 right now, if only the developers didn't make the SSD seem like the holy grail. This has been confirmed with much lower spec SSD's. And we all know the ps5 GPU is a 5700xt with basic raytracing abilities.

Imagine this, Sony putting R&C on PC. Would you still have that weird conclusion of yours?
 

DonJuanSchlong

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Na he specifically says "in editor mode". That's not the same as "running it with all effects on, animation, physics etc.

That's just free cam over the map. PS5 demo was realtime gameplay, this is just editor mode.
As started and proven millions of times, over and over again, the editor requires much more resources than a console can provide, ruining the editor, over the demo.


TLDR: editor requires a more powerful machine, than what the console can run.
 
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hlm666

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I linked all my sources.
Unreal Engine 5 PS5 Demo and Digital Foundry, next time read before you post.

I don't see any gameplay in that video, just people more around in the model space. Next time come better.

Keep on saying one of the nanite unreal devs is wrong, i'm sure your knowledge on it is far superior to his.


"Yeah it looks better now than it did then because we've improved a lot of stuff!
:)


Brian is just pointing out that the directional light direction isn't exactly the same when he was just fooling around because that was part of the scripting in the original demo (ex. as the roof opened and so on). That in no way would make performance better. Indeed he had the directional light enabled for the entire time he flew around, in addition to the spot lights the artists used for the cave sequence. In the original demo it was only ever one or the other as our shadow caching and optimization was not at the same level it is now."

"Also to reiterate from the live stream - the new demo is heavier than the old one. The overdraw is pretty nuts and there are more lights with full screen coverage in the dark world segment."

Na he specifically says "in editor mode". That's not the same as "running it with all effects on, animation, physics etc.

That's just free cam over the map. PS5 demo was realtime gameplay, this is just editor mode.
This shits been debunked by people compiling the new demo into a runtime package and showing the performance uplift. But once again unreal devs don't agree with you so they are obviously wrong and your right.

"Nanite and virtual texture streaming still operate basically the same way in editor as they do at runtime, although the editor itself often keeps around more copies of uncompressed data for editing purposes. Hence the RAM cost in editor is higher, but it's not because of anything related to the cost of rendering the scene. As I noted above, if anything performance in editor is lower than a shipping build due to various factors."
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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Keep on saying one of the nanite unreal devs is wrong, i'm sure your knowledge on it is far superior to his.


"Yeah it looks better now than it did then because we've improved a lot of stuff!
:)


Brian is just pointing out that the directional light direction isn't exactly the same when he was just fooling around because that was part of the scripting in the original demo (ex. as the roof opened and so on). That in no way would make performance better. Indeed he had the directional light enabled for the entire time he flew around, in addition to the spot lights the artists used for the cave sequence. In the original demo it was only ever one or the other as our shadow caching and optimization was not at the same level it is now."

"Also to reiterate from the live stream - the new demo is heavier than the old one. The overdraw is pretty nuts and there are more lights with full screen coverage in the dark world segment."


This shits been debunked by people compiling the new demo into a runtime package and showing the performance uplift. But once again unreal devs don't agree with you so they are obviously wrong and your right.

"Nanite and virtual texture streaming still operate basically the same way in editor as they do at runtime, although the editor itself often keeps around more copies of uncompressed data for editing purposes. Hence the RAM cost in editor is higher, but it's not because of anything related to the cost of rendering the scene. As I noted above, if anything performance in editor is lower than a shipping build due to various factors."
The guys your responding to is like









After all the proof has been laid out, in many ways at that. These two still can't get the hint? The editor uses more resources than the baked demo, which was shown on ps5. The devs even stated that the new version looks better than the first showing (on ps5), yet you two still try and push some weird agenda Snake29 Snake29 & Loxus Loxus !?!? Come on guys
 

Riky

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Well they did at one point say it was the world’s most powerful console & then changed it.

Reading, it helps.

I just said in the very post you quoted that they changed it because of the word "fastest" when you can say by clock speed it isn't and showed you the page today on Amazon where it still says "most powerful".
 

Snake29

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Keep on saying one of the nanite unreal devs is wrong, i'm sure your knowledge on it is far superior to his.


"Yeah it looks better now than it did then because we've improved a lot of stuff!
:)


Brian is just pointing out that the directional light direction isn't exactly the same when he was just fooling around because that was part of the scripting in the original demo (ex. as the roof opened and so on). That in no way would make performance better. Indeed he had the directional light enabled for the entire time he flew around, in addition to the spot lights the artists used for the cave sequence. In the original demo it was only ever one or the other as our shadow caching and optimization was not at the same level it is now."

"Also to reiterate from the live stream - the new demo is heavier than the old one. The overdraw is pretty nuts and there are more lights with full screen coverage in the dark world segment."


This shits been debunked by people compiling the new demo into a runtime package and showing the performance uplift. But once again unreal devs don't agree with you so they are obviously wrong and your right.

"Nanite and virtual texture streaming still operate basically the same way in editor as they do at runtime, although the editor itself often keeps around more copies of uncompressed data for editing purposes. Hence the RAM cost in editor is higher, but it's not because of anything related to the cost of rendering the scene. As I noted above, if anything performance in editor is lower than a shipping build due to various factors."

These Unreal devs never claimed the PS5 demo can run in realtime atm on pc or any other device with the same performance. The "it runs" means in "editor mode"..they clearly stated that several times in the video. They are not controlling any character and this is also the mode were a lot of texture details is lower, because they have to work in this mode. The last bit where they go over the area towards the end is lower quality geaometry and textures. They using free came to show the map, they do not run the compiled version because that's taxing and is using the GPU harder. I played with UE5 and in editor mode I get higher fps than when I actually play the The Acient demo. There my FPS was between 30 and 45fps.

Even now they confuse people with that statement, since "running in realtime with all gameplay elements, effects, physics, animation, sound etc" is not whats happening here in the demo. It's a breakdown of the demo, the PS5 demo was realtime compiled demo running with all gameplay elements online. That the editor mode can use more ram, doesn't mean "Hey the same PS5 demo is running now on the PC". The word "running" Is the odd word here because you can put it in any context. I "run a real-time gameplay demo" or I "run an demo in editor mode with all gameplay elements not present".

Funny how the same people in the UE5 thread back then were also so triggered, reappear here. Yes nothing to worry about, your pc is still powerful don't worry about it.
 
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Loxus

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Keep on saying one of the nanite unreal devs is wrong, i'm sure your knowledge on it is far superior to his.


"Yeah it looks better now than it did then because we've improved a lot of stuff!
:)


Brian is just pointing out that the directional light direction isn't exactly the same when he was just fooling around because that was part of the scripting in the original demo (ex. as the roof opened and so on). That in no way would make performance better. Indeed he had the directional light enabled for the entire time he flew around, in addition to the spot lights the artists used for the cave sequence. In the original demo it was only ever one or the other as our shadow caching and optimization was not at the same level it is now."

"Also to reiterate from the live stream - the new demo is heavier than the old one. The overdraw is pretty nuts and there are more lights with full screen coverage in the dark world segment."


This shits been debunked by people compiling the new demo into a runtime package and showing the performance uplift. But once again unreal devs don't agree with you so they are obviously wrong and your right.

"Nanite and virtual texture streaming still operate basically the same way in editor as they do at runtime, although the editor itself often keeps around more copies of uncompressed data for editing purposes. Hence the RAM cost in editor is higher, but it's not because of anything related to the cost of rendering the scene. As I noted above, if anything performance in editor is lower than a shipping build due to various factors."
I'm not going to say your wrong or disagree with the information you just provided, but when did I say the Unreal Developers are wrong?

My main point was about PS5 utilizing it's fast and narrow design to be able to produce gameplay scenes with 16 billion triangles and 8K textures. Not anything about improvements in Editor Mode.

My source of my information is the Unreal Engine Developers themselves. Unreal Engine 5 is scalable. Do you have any evidence that a PC around the specs of a PS5 can produce scenes with 16 billion triangles and 8K textures?

I don't know why you'll always veering off topic.
 
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These Unreal devs never claimed the PS5 demo can run in realtime atm on pc or any other device with the same performance. The "it runs" means in "editor mode"..they clearly stated that several times in the video. They are not controlling any character and this is also the mode were a lot of texture details is lower, because they have to work in this mode. The last bit where they go over the area towards the end is lower quality geaometry and textures. They using free came to show the map, they do not run the compiled version because that's taxing and is using the GPU harder. I played with UE5 and in editor mode I get higher fps than when I actually play the The Acient demo. There my FPS was between 30 and 45fps.

Even now they confuse people with that statement, since "running in realtime with all gameplay elements, effects, physics, animation, sound etc" is not whats happening here in the demo. It's a breakdown of the demo, the PS5 demo was realtime compiled demo running with all gameplay elements online. That the editor mode can use more ram, doesn't mean "Hey the same PS5 demo is running now on the PC". The word "running" Is the odd word here because you can put it in any context. I "run a real-time gameplay demo" or I "run an demo in editor mode with all gameplay elements not present".

Funny how the same people in the UE5 thread back then were also so triggered, reappear here. Yes nothing to worry about, your pc is still powerful don't worry about it.
All the gameplay elements had already finished. They were present but had run their course already because dude said it had been running for hours.
I'm not going to say your wrong or disagree with you, but my main point was about PS5 utilizing it's fast and narrow design to be able to produce gameplay scenes with 16 billion triangles and 8K textures.

My source of my information is the Unreal Engine Developers themselves. Unreal Engine 5 is scalable. Do you have any evidence that a PC around the specs of a PS5 can produce scenes with 16 billion triangles and 8K textures?

I don't know why you'll always veering off topic.
IIRC it wasn't 16 billion triangles. The scenes were based off of that many but that's the whole point of nanite. It didn't have 16b triangles on screen rendered at once.
 
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Loxus

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The guys your responding to is like









After all the proof has been laid out, in many ways at that. These two still can't get the hint? The editor uses more resources than the baked demo, which was shown on ps5. The devs even stated that the new version looks better than the first showing (on ps5), yet you two still try and push some weird agenda Snake29 Snake29 & Loxus Loxus !?!? Come on guys
Image it being more taxing in editor mode.

In editor mode you have no character to render, no hair physics to calculate, not water physics, not animations, etc. Nothing along those lines. Not even gameplay, nothing.

How you ganna compare that to the PS5 without all that also running?
 

Arioco

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All the gameplay elements had already finished. They were present but had run their course already because dude said it had been running for hours.

IIRC it wasn't 16 billion triangles. The scenes were based off of that many but that's the whole point of nanite. It didn't have 16b triangles on screen rendered at once.


Yep, IIRC 16 billion triangles was for the source material, but Nanire crunches it down to 20 million triangles per frame. Since geometry is tied to resolution in UE5, and we can't see triangles smaller than the size of a pixel anyway, those triangles we can't see are discarded.The lower the rez, the fewer triangles Nanite needs to render the scene. And that's how UE5 is supposed to scale if I understood correctly.
 

Loxus

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Reading, it helps.

I just said in the very post you quoted that they changed it because of the word "fastest" when you can say by clock speed it isn't and showed you the page today on Amazon where it still says "most powerful".
You need to take some English classes.

The word 'our' is still within the sentence. A punctuation mark (,) is used to indicate a pause between parts of a sentence. It is also used to separate items in a list and to mark the place of thousands in a large numeral.

So with that being said.
They are saying "our most powerful console" if you remove fastest.

Also, a console's performance is the sum of it's parts.
 
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Loxus

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All the gameplay elements had already finished. They were present but had run their course already because dude said it had been running for hours.

IIRC it wasn't 16 billion triangles. The scenes were based off of that many but that's the whole point of nanite. It didn't have 16b triangles on screen rendered at once.
So your saying the Unreal Engine Developers are wrong?
 

Riky

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You need to take some English classes.

The word 'our' is still within the sentence. A punctuation mark (,) is used to indicate a pause between parts of a sentence. It is also used to separate items in a list and to mark the place of thousands in a large numeral.

So with that being said.
They are saying "our most powerful console" if you remove fastest.

Also, a console's performance is the sum of it's parts.

Try reading the whole quote train to understand what is being said please.

This is the Amazon page on my phone today,



"The World's Most Powerful Console"
 

DonJuanSchlong

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Image it being more taxing in editor mode.

In editor mode you have no character to render, no hair physics to calculate, not water physics, not animations, etc. Nothing along those lines. Not even gameplay, nothing.

How you ganna compare that to the PS5 without all that also running?
Imagine not having basic reading comprehension, and skipping the multiple times people have stated the editor is more taxing. You even quoted multiple people who have said the same thing, including myself!

Ps5 cannot run unreal engine 5 editor because it is so taxing. PC can run the editor and demo better than ps5, because it's much more powerful. There's nothing you can say to disprove this. As a matter of fact please read the link below as you might learn a thing or two, instead of stating your personal beliefs, as factual data.






Editor is much more taxing to run than the baked demo on ps5. It's common sense when you understand the reason why.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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But i do not really understand why we're talking about UE5? We have yet to see the PS5 demo being played on pc, and not just a "editor mode" breakdown.
Again, the editor requires much more resources than the baked demo.




Scroll through, father some new knowledge like the other guy, and come back when you have the basic understanding of how things work in game development.



It's sad that some of you guys outright say false things like that, while other people with similar knowledge as you, might end up believing what you said, because none of y'all know any better. No one can learn like that. Instead, just do the research yourself, and you'll find the answers too.
 
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Loxus

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Try reading the whole quote train to understand what is being said please.

This is the Amazon page on my phone today,



"The World's Most Powerful Console"
Well, when I read the whole thing.
I see "our fastest, most powerful console"

So, their admitting it's the most powerful console they ever made.
Not overall the most powerful.
 
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Loxus

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Imagine not having basic reading comprehension, and skipping the multiple times people have stated the editor is more taxing. You even quoted multiple people who have said the same thing, including myself!

Ps5 cannot run unreal engine 5 editor because it is so taxing. PC can run the editor and demo better than ps5, because it's much more powerful. There's nothing you can say to disprove this. As a matter of fact please read the link below as you might learn a thing or two, instead of stating your personal beliefs, as factual data.






Editor is much more taxing to run than the baked demo on ps5. It's common sense when you understand the reason why.
Taxing on RAM is obvious.
That why console dev kits have more RAM.

But where are your direct sources and quotes from Epic to make me believe you?

If you can provide those, I'll admit I was wrong. It's that simple.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Has there ever been a thread on GAF about the power of one console that hasn't turned into console warring?
Ah well, alrighty then :)… let’s see how friendly people are on the next XSX title receiving the same treatment. Something tells me those threads will be filled with a “waiting for Sony ponies to come in and …” ;).
 
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rodrigolfp

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Some people still unironically believe that the UE5 demo can only run on a PS5?

Captain America Lol GIF by mtv


This is why misleading marketing exists, there are enough suckers who buy it.
Dat 200W AMD APU is the most powerful chip ever paired with the most amount of most advanced VRAM possible. Poor i9s/R9s + RTX 3090s + 32+GB RAM don't stand a chance to render UE5 assets...
 
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Snake29

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Some people still unironically believe that the UE5 demo can only run on a PS5?

Captain America Lol GIF by mtv


This is why misleading marketing exists, there are enough suckers who buy it.

They haven’t show the demo running and playable on the pc. We don’t even know how the performance will be on pc when running the last part of the demo with the normale NVMe SSDs.

All we have seen is a editor mode breakdown of the map. Show me a side by side demo before come and talk bullshit.


will be interesting what the xsx version is like when it launches

The same? I’m not sure how the XSX version will be different. Maybe a slightly higher dynamic res in performance mode, but i’m not sure about that.
 
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mansoor1980

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They haven’t show the demo running and playable on the pc. We don’t even know how the performance will be on pc when running the last part of the demo with the normale NVMe SSDs.

All we have seen is a editor mode breakdown of the map. Show me a side by side demo before come and talk bullshit.




The same? I’m not sure how the XSX version will be different. Maybe a slightly higher dynamic res in performance mode, but i’m not sure about that.
could be more polished compared to the ps5 version since it is coming later ,
 

FireFly

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Ah well, alrighty then :)… let’s see how friendly people are on the next XSX title receiving the same treatment. Something tells me those threads will be filled with a “waiting for Sony ponies to come in and …” ;).
The thread was mostly on topic until this post:

 

Snake29

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The thread was mostly on topic until this post:


Since people likely still believe a marketing guy over a hardware architect. The Xbox marketing has affected your brain cells quite a bit.

could be more polished compared to the ps5 version since it is coming later ,

The release was some days ago, first patch should arrive soon with some fixes. Other then that and what I've said already, no big differences will be seen.

Bernd Lauert Bernd Lauert Show me a side by side or otherwise...yes keep laughing and don't talk.
 
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Taxing on RAM is obvious.
That why console dev kits have more RAM.

But where are your direct sources and quotes from Epic to make me believe you?

If you can provide those, I'll admit I was wrong. It's that simple.
Watch the video in the thread people are showing. It's the main ue5 architect saying it runs fine on PC and it was running fine and did all what we saw on the ps5 demo. Those things just already happened when they started with the video. So either the main architect is a liar and everything epic said about ue5 can't be believed or they were telling the truth and it runs fine on PC.
 
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3liteDragon

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Reading, it helps.

I just said in the very post you quoted that they changed it because of the word "fastest" when you can say by clock speed it isn't and showed you the page today on Amazon where it still says "most powerful".
I’m specifically talking about what it says on their official website, I don’t care about their Amazon page. That’s why I highlighted your last sentence.
 
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