When I owned a 1366x768 resolution TV, I ran VGA from 360 into it and chose that exact resolution on the 360 menu. Native resolution to my display is important to me.
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Digital Foundry :- Does resolution really matter?
- Thread starter DHC-Shannow
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When I owned a 1366x768 resolution TV, I ran VGA from 360 into it and chose that exact resolution on the 360 menu. Native resolution to my display is important to me.
Yea, but you couldn't do this with the PS3, so in the case of those ports you'd be referencing, the PS3 version would be doing what he describes.
Yeah, that was nice, but it wasn't possible on ps3. :-/
Exactly this. I'd rather have 1080p (my screen res) on low than 720p on high because it blurs so bad and makes everything very muddy.
The point, if anyone actually read the article, isn't that resolution doesn't matter now but that it matters less than it used to thanks to increased use of post-processing.
Of course we can't actually discuss the article or the points it raises because too many would rather slam the source for "his" bias than dispute even a single point.
I'm assuming that your comparisons were on equipment that was set up correctly therefore the double scaling thing would have been irrelevant for DF articles?
Can you explain the point of the articles? Are you trying to get devs to have parity in resolution and use the additional ps4 power for additional effects, use 720p, or what? They aren't clear on what the point is and the reader is expected to read between the lines.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Resolution is a meaningless number.
Why would it be irrelevant?
The articles aren't there just for number purposes. If nobody at home is likely to have a 720p native screen, what good would making the recommendations based on that scenario be?
The framing of the article matters. He came across as baffled that people would choose PS4 for resolution and then immediately posed questions about Nielson's methods because he was skeptical about the results. This was in the first paragraph. It becomes difficult to read an article with complete objectivity when the author started it out in such a way.
I wasn't present for those pieces, but, like I said, the reason it's less critical now is due to more overall pixels combined with MUCH improved AA and additional post fx. The type of stuff you see in The Order and Ryse. That stuff is amazing but couldn't have been achieved last gen. If it had, those resolution differences would have been less significant.
It's still irrelevant due to lack of actual 720p screens.
Teletraan1
Banned
So I guess if you don't agree with the article or the reasoning for it you are just a blowhard that has bad reading comprehension. You might even get discredited with a selective quote. Glad this thread played out like every other DF thread.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Resolution is a basically catch-all phrase that encompasses the overall visual quality of a game for more uninformed consumers. They know PS4 games look better and resolution is the bullet point for that. The guy who wrote this article knows this too. He is still bias and doing damage control.
Night Angel
Member
I don't think people are calling YOU out for being biased. Unfortunately, Leadbetter is (has) ruining the site's reputation for some, and it's easier to blast DF than look at each writer separately. For what it's worth, I don't feel any general ill will towards you or the site as a whole.
The only thing recently that's bugged me (aside from the entire catalog of Leadbetter articles) is the sudden, selective focus on gameplay or secret sauce (infrastructure/online community) in what used to be technical write-ups. If this is going to be an evolution of the way DF writes their articles, shouldn't it happen to every game? The games it's been used on thus far put a bit of doubt in my mind as to the site's neutrality, but I'm willing to wait and see if it's fixed.
What the fuxk is going on over at DF? Since the PS4 has been dropping games left and right at full HD folks have gone nutty. So where was this article last gen? Give me a fucking break.
Exactly. Why the back pedaling now?That's weird, it used to matter.....
Double scaling wouldn't occur on correctly set up equipment.
Night Angel
Member
No it wouldn't but what does that matter when nobody will actually be playing on actual 1280x720 displays?
It'd happen on any sub-720p game on PS3 running on a non-720p screen (pretty much every screen in existence). The PS3 doesn't do what the 360/XB1/PS4 does by scaling internally to match the display's native resolution.
It's not simply a case of people having their shit set up incorrectly.
Stable 30, yes.
Let's set aside xbox vs ps4 for the moment.
Which would provide a better experience
- 1080p/60 with no AA
- 900p/60 with 2xMSAA
- 720p/60 with 4xMSAA
Before seeing the likes of Ryse, I'd have said native resolution is the best, but that game has shown me that high image quality at 900p, combined with a decent scaler can clearly provide better image quality than some native 1080p games. So personally I think at least some level of AA is more important than resolution for the sake of resolution. (Obviously higher is better if you can have both)
Framerate I'm ok with 30fps as long as it is locked. Solid 30fps > unlocked 60fps with lots of drops.
Which would provide a better experience
- 1080p/60 with no AA
- 900p/60 with 2xMSAA
- 720p/60 with 4xMSAA
Before seeing the likes of Ryse, I'd have said native resolution is the best, but that game has shown me that high image quality at 900p, combined with a decent scaler can clearly provide better image quality than some native 1080p games. So personally I think at least some level of AA is more important than resolution for the sake of resolution. (Obviously higher is better if you can have both)
Framerate I'm ok with 30fps as long as it is locked. Solid 30fps > unlocked 60fps with lots of drops.
Except he has been called out on it. Several times for several different articles where he was accused of doing the same thing that Leadbetter gets accused of - downplaying the XB1 version's disadvantages or not hyping up the PS4's advantages, however you want to phrase it.
I'd go with 900p with 2xMSAA.
Based on Forza Motorsport 5 and Dead or Alive 5: Last Round... 1080p with no AA is pretty nasty.
Yup, that Dragon Age Inquisition thread was ridiculous.
I'm kind of disturbed by the number of people who don't realize this. 720p content will not be 1:1 on nearly any consumer HDTV released in the better part of the last decade.
Pc monitors and cards don't have scalers tho. It's a completely different argument. Yet we see it so much
StrongBlackVine
Banned
I'm fine with unlocked framerate as long as it is above 30. Killzone and inFAMOUS played great unlocked.
For the living room, I'd go with 900p and 2xMSAA.
For my desk, I'd probably go with 1080p and no AA. It wouldn't be pretty, but most PC/monitor setups don't handle scaling as well as console/TV setups. I'd probably want to see them side by side for comparison, though. Depends on the game, too.
Completely opposite on the performance, though. I'll take 45-60fps over 30fps most of the time.
CouchMaster
Member
That's a dig at Ubi who said its just a number, just like framerate.
The scalers on PC monitors generally aren't as good because there's an assumption that they'll be used for native resolution content, but the majority do have scalers. If they had no scalers, you wouldn't be able to display non-native-res material at all.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Kind of hard too when neither the PS4 or Xbox One are compatable.
But seriously if it weren't for media outlets and marketing companies, very few would care about it now.
This is the whole point tho. People don't really know anything, but they hear something and stick too it. Form an opinion from that. The 360 had to scale to the guys 1366 monitor through a vga cable doing exactly what the xbox one is doing, I believe. Yet he believes it was native. Surely the game was still rendered at the res it was developed at.
It should be does the game look good.
I know cod aw is lower res on xbox one but it still looks good.
The vast majority of HD TV's do have built in scalers though don't they? That's my assumption anyway. Not very good ones usually but they certainly help.
Yeah, that particular thread was absolutely ridiculous and shows how warped people's views can be.
Of course they have scalers.
I must say, though, I use 1:1 pixel mode most often on my 1440p 32" monitor as the size is large enough to allow for smaller windows to remain playable. 1920x1080 at 1:1 is the size of a 24" 1080p monitor while even something like 1024x768 is still bigger than a 19" 4:3 display. It's quite usable that way.
CambriaRising
Member
Bullshit.
Yes they do, both AMD and Nvidia have scaling options and good ones.
Terbinator
Member
The last 4 monitors I've had - stretching back to 2006 - have all had internal scalers.
UberTag
Member
Different winner on top.
Same reason the president is Satan and evil incarnate now but FOX News will be complete apologists when the Republicans are back in charge.
ScepticMatt
Member
How about 1080p/50 with SMAA 1Tx (and 50Hz capable monitor)
It goes even deeper. What scaling algorithm do you use? What shaders/lighting are you using? AF? Even lighting models can cause certain visual artifacts to appear more or less. The question depends on a lot of factors.
Journey
Banned
Does Ryse look blurry because it's 900p, or for other reasons? I've seen games that are 900p vs 1080p where overall image look just as sharp, texture quality wise of course, since the 900p image has a few more jagged edges, but it's not the Vaseline smear that we see in some of the Ryse captures. It could be their method of AA or some kind of diffuse lighting technique.
DF catpures:
Smutpeddler
Member
I think if DF wrote individual articles for each platform with the same testing and results reporting we wouldn't see a lot of this hyperbolic and silly platform pandering. "My console does this better and I need to have it justified!" It doesn't matter to the individual consumer who takes in many more factors than just Resolution. The point of the article is that there is more to it than resolution, and there can be sacrifices that can make for a pleasurable experience.
However, they will not break down and not compare the different platforms, because the shit storm of the comparisons gives them the clicks they desire.
However, they will not break down and not compare the different platforms, because the shit storm of the comparisons gives them the clicks they desire.
What i find annoying is that in the same breath you have people like Ricahrd saying resolution doesn't matter for people who bought the PS4 for the power gap over the XB1, we have DF's own analysis of DOA5LR which has the results in direct comparison of 720p and 1080p both with no AA.
He doesn't say it doesn't matter, though.
Definitely the case. You can't ask people to see a difference when the attempted source material wasn't intended to have differences in the first place. It's self fullfilling.
@Seanspeed Just recently in Rev Evil 2 face off, Dark was called out for bias against PS4. So yeah, he's definitely been accused more than once. Same thing happened with the last face off Dark did.
Dictator93
Member
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