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Digital Foundry :- Does resolution really matter?

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Since we all play now on modern but fixed-resolution displays, yes, yes it does.

Absolutely,

No consistency what so ever.

It certainly isn't the most important metric for me but their behaviour is digusting

I won't give them any clicks, a matter a fact I'll add their ad servers to all the blocking tables in all the organisations I maintain.
 
Framerate trumps res every time since it actually affects the gameplay

For example dragon age inq on xbone is not full 1080p but is way smoother than the ps4 version.
Even on my 55" i prefer framerate, the ps4 version only looks better in stills...
 
I think that for most resolution differences between platforms is more about performance increases than a number. Fact is that, if all other performance variables are equal, that having a higher resolution is going to look better.

Personally, resolution isn't the end all for me. If it impacts performance then I would rather see the resolution dropped for a more consistent experience. I do think that there is a lot of grandstanding over resolution by some, regardless of its impacts, which I think is wrong. While games running 1080p are nice to have, 900p does not ruin a game, or make it unplayable.
 
Framerate trumps res every time since it actually affects the gameplay

Does it for me personally, well at least a locked framerate 30/60 I can do without dependent on the game.

But here's the thing there are other ways to increase the framerate apart from dropping the resolution, it doesn't have to be either or, it can be both

I'd rather they drop effects and other details before resolution AND framerate, I actually don't mind dynamic resolution as long it is keep to fast moving scenes where temporal resolution is more important
 
I see the bluray film being brought up and quality of pixels, it looks a convincing argument to joe blogs as we know decent bitrate 720p or 1080 video looks good enough so why do games look so inferior with jaggies galore and shimmer? Cameras in-effect are downsampling reality. What resolution would be needed to simulate or to look comparable excluding going microscopic, just your on looking view to a car, foliage and some railings in front of you? It's going to be high but lets just say 32k gives you something close. If you render Gran Turismo at 32k or 16k then record it and display at 1080p, its going to look very clean and lifelike in terms of geometry.

With these "well bluray looks good therefore bullshit on going higher" people seem to not understand a game engine is rendering a world from scratch starting from zero and 1080p bluray is capturing the opposite end via a camera and added perfect lod and filtering of details at every moment. That's why we see a poor image in a game. How do you get a cleaner resolved image somewhat like a film or reality in a game for TV display purposes? Well a low starting point for me is 4k, or you supersample from 1080p which is a similar cost or use a ton of filtering which is costly. You could just blur the crap out of it and it might look comparable to a movie paused during an action scene but it will mostly look inferior.

I can take or leave 4k films, for games its a first step to getting a somewhat clean image comparable to a film or photo on a 40inch display because we're rendering at a low resolution in engine.
 
I actually feel sorry DF at this point. The reputation they built up from last gen is being flushed down the drain and now being viewed as a PR mouthpiece.

These are no longer conspiracy theories about Ledbetter and DF, it's actual reality. Sad.

they were'nt legit last gen either there was many cases of them not using proper settings for the ps3 like assassins creed comparison which is why alot of the games look washed out in their reviews.
they have always been an xbox fanboy site. Minor differences between ps3/360 were blown out of proportion, but this gen even bigger differences are considering a marginal victory for ps4 lol. But yeah they have never been legit they were simply more justified in their bias last gen because 360 did have slighlty better multiplats alot of the time.
 
Does resolution matter?

Do we really need thumbs to play video games?

I don't need these legs, someone chop them off.

What's all of this air REALLY for?
 
They don't focus on resolution. They focus on the lowest common spec between XBO, PS4, and PC and they achieve what they want performance-wise on the lowest spec which has been not-1080p most of the time on the lowest spec console. Then once you have achieved that performance level, you tweak it based on available resources. They're not going to make a game based on what XBO can't accomplish, and since the PS4 will always hold a spec advantage on GPU, they will be able to do more with that version.

So I still don't understand why his argument exists. If XBO is the lowest common spec they have to cater to, and they're already dropping resolution to achieve it, and they don't have to drop resolution to achieve the same thing on PS4, we are still left with a situation where two consoles are nearly identical except one is capable of running a target that was ALREADY set based on what the weakest multiplatform console can do, but at a higher resolution.

Games are not getting gimped across all platforms because they're trying to achieve 1080p resolution on PS4. And disregarding a 1080p target on PS4 does not suddenly allow devs to achieve more within the game they're designing because they're still held back on what the lowest spec console can do. Just like CPU-bound things are held to the lower standard of what the PS4 can do when a game is designed.

So again, I don't understand the point of this article because even if they went with a 900p target on PS4, they would be rendering graphics intense enough to be forced to go below 900p on XBO. PS4 is doing 1080p not because of some mandate or just to check a box, it is doing so because it has that much performance overhead above the lowest spec target for the game.

These consoles don't exist in a vacuum alone, so discussing how developers shouldn't target 1080p on PS4 as it's unimportant disregards the reason they're hitting 1080p on PS4 which brings in a comparison to that other console that is playing the exact same games.
Its not black and white.
You can do a lot to gain performance. You can remove SSR on Xbone for example, You can sample less taps in post-processing, You decrease LoD, You can render effects in 1/4 resolution, You can use dynamic resolution like COD:AW for example. Tons of stuff.
Native 1080p, which some people think is a requirement and obvious choice for, it is not.

And there is no way to design a game that PS4 will run and Xbone wont. Its not possible, there is always way to downscale some features.

So again, I don't understand the point of this article because even if they went with a 900p target on PS4, they would be rendering graphics intense enough to be forced to go below 900p on XBO.
Yes, this can happen. Not exactly in pure 900p to 720p, but it is possibility in future.
 
Well certainly resolution matters in terms of IQ, but for many people its #1 on the list when in reality it should be a few rungs lower. There are other more important aspects of a game's graphics than just resolution.

There are some amazing looking games on console with sub 1080p resolutions, and I dont think it matters that much. Ryse and Sunset Overdrive both look fantastic in their own right. Sunset OD in particular I don't think loses anything due to being 900p, its borderline irrelevant with that game.
 
These resolutions look great if you have the correct display. I agree it look like shit on modern fixed-1080p screens with a default upscaler.
The problem is we don't use variable-res displays any more and without a decent upscaler and plenty of filters, non-native res stuff look like shit.

Team CRT unite!

But, honestly, do you think the scalers in modern consoles aren't "decent?" Most people here are not using their HDTV's internal scaler to do the job for sub 1080p content. They're simply setting their console to 1080p and allowing it to handle the processing.

For purposes of this discussion, let's ignore the Wii U's scaler for 480p sources which seems to be a bit too sharp for some people. Otherwise, I think the major modern consoles (ie. Xbox 360, PS3, Wii U for 720p content, Xbox One, and PS4) do a decent job scaling non-native sources to 1080p for our fixed panel displays.
 
I often wonder why Microsoft has a PR department when so many journalists are willing to do it for free.

funny-gif-baby-laughing-roll-over.gif
 
Look at how dark10x' posts get ignored while others continue to do whenever resolution is a topic.
People want to share their opinion on this and aren't interested in discussion.
While I agree there is definitely worthwhile discussion to be had about resolution ( dark10x, Benny_a and a few others), the article sullied that point right in its opening paragraph. So it's fair if people want to discuss that the article is fundamentally flaw while there still being interesting discussion to be had.
Heck benny_a and even darkx10(to a lesser agree which is understandable) both agreed on the principal of resolution and its affect while still questioning the authors intent..
Seanspeed could learn from them
 
Does resolution matter?

Do we really need thumbs to play video games?

I don't need these legs, someone chop them off.

What's all of this air REALLY for?

Do we really need delicious steak? We can survive on crackers and water
Do we really need a big house? Under the bridge is perfectly fine and shields you fro mthe rain.
 
Resolution matters more on a PC since typically your nose is up to the screen. On console you are sitting back 6 feet or more, so 720p does not look as pixellated (unless you have a giant TV?).

Performance and image quality are important, but the Digital Foundry-YT comments section has become a cesspit of anal retentives who are kept awake at night by the thought of 900p, or a dip of 5 frames.
 
Resolution matters just as much this gen as it did last gen. If the PS3 was shit on for games having lower res compared to 360 games, the Xbone should get shit on for having lower res games compared to the PS4.

Now fuck off and go back to doing proper technical reviews.
 
Resolution matters just as much this gen as it did last gen. If the PS3 was shit on for games having lower res compared to 360 games, the Xbone should get shit on for having lower res games compared to the PS4.

Now fuck off and go back to doing proper technical reviews.

Ain't gonna happen, not while Leadbetter and friends are still running that place :3
 
they were'nt legit last gen either there was many cases of them not using proper settings for the ps3 like assassins creed comparison which is why alot of the games look washed out in their reviews.
they have always been an xbox fanboy site. Minor differences between ps3/360 were blown out of proportion, but this gen even bigger differences are considering a marginal victory for ps4 lol. But yeah they have never been legit they were simply more justified in their bias last gen because 360 did have slighlty better multiplats alot of the time.

DF didn't even prove what the hell they were talking about in the Face-Off for Evolve. PS4 version has a better resolution and frame-rate than Xbox One, but somehow they felt it was important to write: "this is an online-focused title and the backing infrastructure here doesn't seem quite as robust as it is on Xbox One and PC." Yeah? Back that shit up. Oh, you can't because it doesn't exist... you just needed PS4 to not win hands down. "Herp... it looks better and performs better on PS4, but... Xbox Live? Yeah. Xbox Live. Derp."
 
I have been suspecting Xbox One bias for months based on their face-offs suddenly down playing differences, talking gameplay, and even mentioning Online infrastructure. Doing anything they could to make it look like the technically inferior Xbox One version was on an even playing field. This article cements those assumptions.

And what a stupid question, of course it matters. If it didn't why would devs even try? why would TV's offer higher resolutions? Why would the Nielsen data support it as being the number 1 reason people buy a PS4? Resolution doesn't make a game good, obviously there are other factors. but if you have identical games and one is 1080p while another version is 900p/720p why would you want to play the inferior version?

Not to mention that the face-off articles are irrelevant if the differences don't matter. Why even waste time on it DF? smh
 
DF didn't even prove what the hell they were talking about in the Face-Off for Evolve. PS4 version has a better resolution and frame-rate than Xbox One, but somehow they felt it was important to write: "this is an online-focused title and the backing infrastructure here doesn't seem quite as robust as it is on Xbox One and PC." Yeah? Back that shit up. Oh, you can't because it doesn't exist... you just needed PS4 to not win hands down. "Herp... it looks better and performs better on PS4, but... Xbox Live? Yeah. Xbox Live. Derp."

lol digital foundry is coming dangerously close to being like that parody gaming news site.
 
But PC is a funny thing, because it's your job to tweak settings, in order to achieve 1080p/60FPS. It's also really not that hard with a decent GPU (given that the game is optimized good enough), where as on consoles it's the job of the devs to achieve certain resolutions and framerate.


So true. If you want it done right...do it yourself!
 
I think a trap people often fall in with these arguments is looking at exclusives. Multiplats should be the point of discussion since the other variables should be equal. When all things are equal, would anyone pick the lower res? If no, then it does matter.
 
While I agree there is definitely worthwhile discussion to be had about resolution ( dark10x, Benny_a and a few others), the article sullied that point right in its opening paragraph. So it's fair if people want to discuss that the article is fundamentally flaw while there still being interesting discussion to be had.
Heck benny_a and even darkx10(to a lesser agree which is understandable) both agreed on the principal of resolution and its affect while still questioning the authors intent..
Seanspeed could learn from them
Where did darkx question the author's intent?

And yes, of course, if I don't agree that there is obvious bias in the intentions, then I'm wrong. That's the gist of it, yes? You never considered that maybe I actually have tried to see things from the perspective that there is bias and then chucked it out because I feel that view isn't necessary to explain anything? I always prefer to stick with simpler explanations until they become insufficient. And I don't see that here, sorry.
 
DF didn't even prove what the hell they were talking about in the Face-Off for Evolve. PS4 version has a better resolution and frame-rate than Xbox One, but somehow they felt it was important to write: "this is an online-focused title and the backing infrastructure here doesn't seem quite as robust as it is on Xbox One and PC." Yeah? Back that shit up. Oh, you can't because it doesn't exist... you just needed PS4 to not win hands down. "Herp... it looks better and performs better on PS4, but... Xbox Live? Yeah. Xbox Live. Derp."

Wow. Did they really say that?
That's embarrassing if it's true.
Talk about clutching at straws.
 
Resolution matters more on a PC since typically your nose is up to the screen. On console you are sitting back 6 feet or more, so 720p does not look as pixellated (unless you have a giant TV?).

Performance and image quality are important, but the Digital Foundry-YT comments section has become a cesspit of anal retentives who are kept awake at night by the thought of 900p, or a dip of 5 frames.


I sit 7 feet back from a 65" screen. What does that do for your odd argument?
 
It'd be cool if DF conducted a focus group test with various tv display sizes, resolutions and distances to the screen.

As a consumer looking for a new tv, i think it would provide a lot of value.
 
It'd be cool if DF conducted a focus group test with various tv display sizes, resolutions and distances to the screen.

As a consumer looking for a new tv, i think it would provide a lot of value.
Well we've gotten various little 'charts' that are based on such findings. I don't always agree with them, but the one posted here earlier actually seemed pretty good.

The only problem comes in the form of quantifying impact. What is a big difference to one person may not seem like a big deal to another. Or maybe a person says they can technically see a difference but don't feel its worth anything(cost, development sacrifices, etc). You can create a general range where people say it makes a difference and then maybe put yourself at either end of the spectrum depending on how important or sensitive you are to it.
 
Well we've gotten various little 'charts' that are based on such findings. I don't always agree with them, but the one posted here earlier actually seemed pretty good.

The only problem comes in the form of quantifying impact. What is a big difference to one person may not seem like a big deal to another. Or maybe a person says they can technically see a difference but don't feel its worth anything(cost, development sacrifices, etc). You can create a general range where people say it makes a difference and then maybe put yourself at either end of the spectrum depending on how important or sensitive you are to it.

i just think it would help supplement what is already out there. If there were multiple opinions from people across the board within the same tests, I think it would help determine their overall significance. Like, if one was 1 out of 5 people, and then 5 out of 5, using the same group, it would definitely be interesting.

they can even define them as M/F, Glasses/Contacts/None, Gamer/NonGamer, etc. if they wanted to.

It'd be better than just an article proposing the question.
 
Oh dear. I guess we should just go back to 640x480 but just use better scaling techniques this time.

In fact, why even waste resources on that? I'm sure 320x240 is fine.

lol ive said this exact thing before... if resolution really doesnt matter... then why bother at all right?

It matters to me... i sit fairly close to a 50" tv in my bedroom, id rather games be locked @30fps with 1080p+ resolution.

Sure 60fps looks great, but id rather not sacrifice the clean look of 1080p resolution... obviously if i could have both that would be perfect...

But for me: Art Direction > Resolution > Framerate (as long as its locked at 30 at the LEAST.)
 
i just think it would help supplement what is already out there. If there were multiple opinions from people across the board within the same tests, I think it would help determine their overall significance. Like, if one was 1 out of 5 people, and then 5 out of 5, using the same group, it would definitely be interesting.

they can even define them as M/F, Glasses/Contacts/None, Gamer/NonGamer, etc. if they wanted to.

It'd be better than just an article proposing the question.
Yea, it would be cool of them to do that.

But I don't think this is necessarily what the article was getting at, either. I mean, its part of it, but I think it was less a question of "Does resolution actually make games look better?" which is quite obvious and doesn't need asking, and more of a "How key is resolution's role in modern console graphics in reality?".
 
DF didn't even prove what the hell they were talking about in the Face-Off for Evolve. PS4 version has a better resolution and frame-rate than Xbox One, but somehow they felt it was important to write: "this is an online-focused title and the backing infrastructure here doesn't seem quite as robust as it is on Xbox One and PC." Yeah? Back that shit up. Oh, you can't because it doesn't exist... you just needed PS4 to not win hands down. "Herp... it looks better and performs better on PS4, but... Xbox Live? Yeah. Xbox Live. Derp."

Yeah that was just ridiculous. Whats next? We like the Xbox One controller better so that version is superior.
 
Yeah that was just ridiculous. Whats next? We like the Xbox One controller better so that version is superior.
Actually, they've done something like that already:

Dead or Alive Hands-on:

The PS4 and Xbox One versions of Last Round are graphically interchangeable, offering up up the same core feature set - the Core Fighters free to play edition is available across both consoles if you want to try out the game before putting down any cash, with the option of buying the whole game for a fixed price or purchasing content piecemeal. However, as of this writing, the Xbox One version is buggy and temperamental - a highly frustrating situation that needs resolving imminently. In comparison, our time spent with Last Round on PS4 has been smooth and free of problems. While opinion may vary, the Dual Shock 4 controller also feels better suited for fighting games than its Xbox One counterpart - directional movements on the d-pad flow more smoothly and this makes it easier to consistently pull off more complex moves.

Of course I never saw anybody get upset over this.
 
Yea, it would be cool of them to do that.

But I don't think this is necessarily what the article was getting at, either. I mean, its part of it, but I think it was less a question of "Does resolution actually make games look better?" which is quite obvious and doesn't need asking, and more of a "How key is resolution's role in modern console graphics in reality?".

That is a far more accurate description of the content of the article, and is obviously a more interesting topic then what the usual "what the human eye can perceive between identical content at different resolutions" debates. But of course some people only read the title and act like its advocating that games might as well be 240p.
 
Actually, they've done something like that already:

Dead or Alive Hands-on:



Of course I never saw anybody get upset over this.
Probably because it didn't change their conclusion. The Xbox One version of DoA was a flaming disaster and the KT twitter account was spamming a 15 part warning all day on how to not get your save data deleted. Now if it was the Xbox version that was better in all the objective measurements but the PS4 for the nod because the author liked the controller you might see a different reaction.
 
they were'nt legit last gen either there was many cases of them not using proper settings for the ps3 like assassins creed comparison which is why alot of the games look washed out in their reviews.
they have always been an xbox fanboy site. Minor differences between ps3/360 were blown out of proportion, but this gen even bigger differences are considering a marginal victory for ps4 lol. But yeah they have never been legit they were simply more justified in their bias last gen because 360 did have slighlty better multiplats alot of the time.

And I don't remember one PS3 fan that said their games sucked or anything like that last gen when the 360 had the better version. I still remember battling just as hard with other fans of each console just as much last gen.
 
Actually, they've done something like that already:

Dead or Alive Hands-on:



Of course I never saw anybody get upset over this.

There's a massive difference between these scenarios

  1. supporting detail with one console preforming better in literally every way + controller preference

  2. one console performing better in every way but the other console supposedly has better online infrastructure so that wins despite the performance advantages the competing console provides.

The two are not analogous. One is tangential observation while the other is patently absurd qualification that somehow bears more importance than all other factors. If you can't see the difference there I don't know what to tell you.
 
It's not something that'd ever put me off of a game, but it's one of the more important parts of the visual package. Sub-native resolution just sucks, period.
 
That's up there with the online talk about evolve. Is it not?

Kinda, but I think the reason a stink wasn't raised was because the subjective part they (foolishly, for a tech site) threw in fell on the side of the clearly technologically superior version of the game.

If it had been "console X's version of the game is superior in every way, but it's mostly a wash because console Y has a better controller," I think you'd've seen similar anger. Especially if that comment came from a source with questionable levels of impartiality.

That or SonyGAF strikes again
/s
.
 
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