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Digital Foundry: Forza Motorsport 7 is Xbox One X's true 4K showcase

willbsn13

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Sep 20, 2014
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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-forza-motorsport-7-xbox-one-x-true-4k-showcase

https://youtu.be/T85Fshj2eiY

Tector is the man behind a thousands GIFs - he is indeed the talking head on last year's Project Scorpio reveal video, discussing those now iconic 'uncompressed pixels'. In putting that video together, each participant sat down in turn in front of the camera, and were encouraged just to talk about Scorpio and their experiences of its development. It's fair to say that the subsequent editing robbed his comments of almost all of their context.

"It's what I was getting at when I said 'uncompressed pixels'. Even when you go to a movie at the theatre and it's projected at 4K, it's compressed and it's running at 24 frames a second," he says. "And games - just in general - games at 4K, they're natively rendered, right? They're the cleanest, uncompressed pixels that you can see and they're rendering at 60 frames a second - and the really cool part is that we're doing this for console gamers now. So rather than hoping you can afford a multi-thousand dollar PC that can achieve it, we're going to have people playing at console, native 4K, 60 frames a second. It's going to be awesome."

But just as impressive is the implementation of full dynamic lighting, allowing for gradual time of day transitions as well as a full-on weather system - all real-time now, as opposed to FM6's baked, static equivalents. During our Turn 10 visit, we could see how the developers could tweak lighting and weather on the fly during runtime, as easily as a movie colourist grades footage. The Nurburgring is the host circuit for demonstrating both technologies in the E3 demo, where a grey, overcast day turns into a fierce thunderstorm, before subsiding into a clear skies sunset, the track illuminated by floodlights. Everything we'd want from dynamic weather is here in terms of effects, but also with water accumulation and some beautiful reflections in the puddles - check out the end of the gameplay footage to see this in full effect.

Lock if old mods.
 

leeh

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Dec 30, 2014
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Ive watched the DF Gameplay video on YouTube a few times and I really can't wait for this game.
 
Aug 28, 2016
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They actually say it's the ONLY true 4K game that Microsoft have shown so far.

So Sea of Thieves, Crackdown 3 and State of Decay 2 aren't native 4K yet? Personally i would be more than fine with CBR if this means much better graphical fidelity.
 

Christocolus

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Oct 28, 2016
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Great job T10. The game looks incredible. Can't wait to get the XB1X. I love the synergy between Playground Games and T10 both devs are at the top of their game.

I can't wait until we see more tracks. These are straight grabs from gameplay (but with HDR squished to RGB).






Grabbed from the other thread.
 

Blimblim

The Inside Track
Jun 8, 2004
17,966
16
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I wish we had the chance of capturing our Forza 7 footage again without HDR enabled like DF did. Ho well, more power to them :)
I'm going to try and see if I can use the HDR capture and produce some actual HDR10 videos in a few hours. This could be sweet if I get it to work.
As for the game, I'm not a huge fan of the desert track, it's a bit too clean in terms of lighting. The race with changing weather is amazing though :)
 

Angel_DvA

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Nov 1, 2014
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Looks so damn good, Forza team is the best team Microsoft has for sure, The game looks spectacular and we know the gameplay will be as good, can't wait to play it on my PC.
 

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Sep 19, 2012
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Haha I love there's an explanation for those pixels. I'm sure this will look amazing. FH3 in 1080p with HDR was already incredible
 

MaLDo

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Jun 4, 2009
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Barcelona
maldotex.blogspot.com
Ambient occlusion is missing for most of the geometry.
Lighting is only right on photogrammetry assets.
Fhotogrammetry assets have really low resolution textures.
Most of reflections are not real time calculated.
Geometry reflections on the cars run at half the framerate.
Car shadows don't project over track assets.
Some tracks elements don't render at full resolution.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Jun 9, 2004
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So DF actually saw it on the XB1X? Because it was showcased on PCs on the showfloor from what I've read.
Yes! I absolutely played it on an Xbox One X dev-kit. It was a real system, I adjusted the HDR settings from the system OS even. That's where this capture came from.

The PC version was only used for that expensive motion rig because, well, obviously the Xbox version isn't going to be able to support that.

Ambient occlusion is missing for most of the geometry.
Lighting is only right on photogrammetry assets.
Fhotogrammetry assets have really low resolution textures.
Most of reflections are not real time calculated.
Geometry reflections on the cars run at half the framerate.
Car shadows don't project over track assets.
Some tracks elements don't render at full resolution.
Sure, but you start pushing for those elements and suddenly the game isn't 4K60 any longer. It's still a console game and I'd assume some of those things, such as geometry reflections, will run at full frame-rate on PC. Half-rate reflections really bug me.

I think they're making good choices here. It looks aesthetically pleasing and runs very smoothly. It'll stand the test of time for that reason.

I think Project Cars 2 is the more ambitious game, technically. Will be curious to see how it runs on consoles since they rewrote so much of the engine and told me that they are getting much higher frame-rates on consoles even in full grids with weather than the original game. PC should be super optimized as well.
 

Christocolus

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Oct 28, 2016
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Yes! I absolutely played it on an Xbox One X dev-kit. It was a real system, I adjusted the HDR settings from the system OS even. That's where this capture came from.

The PC version was only used for that expensive motion rig because, well, obviously the Xbox version isn't going to be able to support that.

Great job dark. How impressive was the implementation of dynamic weather?
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Jun 9, 2004
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Great job dark. How impressive was the implementation of dynamic weather?
Well, in this race, I wouldn't classify it as dynamic since it is designed to change exactly the same way every time you race that track. I think it works well and, like Project Cars 2, they use puddles that seem to gradually fill in over time.

The puddles are interesting - they do impact the game when playing normally but I really noticed it when using that massive $40k motion rig. That thing is so powerful that getting hit by a car genuinely feels like getting hit so, when you go through puddles, you genuinely feel it. All the different surfaces react as you might expect and you can feel it.

Unfortunately, that's not an experience anyone can really have at home though it does still impact control.
 

willbsn13

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Sep 20, 2014
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Yes! I absolutely played it on an Xbox One X dev-kit. It was a real system, I adjusted the HDR settings from the system OS even. That's where this capture came from.

The PC version was only used for that expensive motion rig because, well, obviously the Xbox version isn't going to be able to support that.

Did you get any clarification on the implementation of Dynamic Time of Day from Turn 10?

At this stage they've been quiet on how the dynamic systems are going to work in the game. Like are we gonna be able to drive a full 24hr day/night cycle or is it going to be like morning to afternoon, or just like dynamic skies...
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Jun 9, 2004
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Did you get any clarification on the implementation of Dynamic Time of Day from Turn 10?

At this stage they've been quiet on how the dynamic systems are going to work in the game. Like are we gonna be able to drive a full 24hr day/night cycle or is it going to be like morning to afternoon, or just like dynamic skies...
The folks I spoke with didn't have answers to that (or weren't saying).
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
Mar 24, 2015
12,712
3
0
Ambient occlusion is missing for most of the geometry.
Lighting is only right on photogrammetry assets.
Fhotogrammetry assets have really low resolution textures.
Most of reflections are not real time calculated.
Geometry reflections on the cars run at half the framerate.
Car shadows don't project over track assets.
Some tracks elements don't render at full resolution.

The price of 4K 60fps.
I'm still glad they managed to cram dynamic weather and time in there, and lighting does look improved quite a bit. Actually quite a lot seeing those Gestault gifs.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Jun 15, 2016
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Finally they're able to achieve what PGR4 had 10 years ago...

Kidding aside, I wonder whether it will be sub-1080p for the S now that it no longer has to be the flag bearer for graphics on Xbox.
 

soundscream

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Aug 23, 2009
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Well, in this race, I wouldn't classify it as dynamic since it is designed to change exactly the same way every time you race that track. I think it works well and, like Project Cars 2, they use puddles that seem to gradually fill in over time.

The puddles are interesting - they do impact the game when playing normally but I really noticed it when using that massive $40k motion rig. That thing is so powerful that getting hit by a car genuinely feels like getting hit so, when you go through puddles, you genuinely feel it. All the different surfaces react as you might expect and you can feel it.

Unfortunately, that's not an experience anyone can really have at home though it does still impact control.

The hydroplaning effect was very noticeable on 6 when using a wheel, so I am sure the same will be present in 7.
 

GHG

Member
Nov 9, 2006
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Well, in this race, I wouldn't classify it as dynamic since it is designed to change exactly the same way every time you race that track. I think it works well and, like Project Cars 2, they use puddles that seem to gradually fill in over time.

The puddles are interesting - they do impact the game when playing normally but I really noticed it when using that massive $40k motion rig. That thing is so powerful that getting hit by a car genuinely feels like getting hit so, when you go through puddles, you genuinely feel it. All the different surfaces react as you might expect and you can feel it.

Unfortunately, that's not an experience anyone can really have at home though it does still impact control.

I have a question about the dynamic weather/time of day. Did they say whether you would be able to have this across all tracks and whether you could control how quickly the time/weather progresses like Project Cars? Or are they always going to be pre-determined?
 

Diablohead

Member
Jun 4, 2006
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You can make forza 4k you can make it 60fps but the thing that bugs me the most in every single game is that the wing mirrors do not reflect in the car door below it, it still looks bad.
 

KageMaru

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Oct 6, 2010
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Nice to see that time of day and dynamic lighting are in. Really curious to see how the XBO version compares.

On a side note, it's pretty disappointing that this is the only native 4K title. I'm more than fine with CBR, but a game like State of Decay isn't necessarily graphical powerhouse of a title.

It's native 1080.

Did they confirm that? Really impressive if they were able to keep it at 1080p with all the the improvements.
 

Diablohead

Member
Jun 4, 2006
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The lack of self-reflections on the car still bothers me tho. :\

i'd prefer some of that gpu power to go into self shadowing and reflections then 4k tbh, maybe forza 8 will update to include those features in some way.
 

Christocolus

Member
Oct 28, 2016
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Well, in this race, I wouldn't classify it as dynamic since it is designed to change exactly the same way every time you race that track. I think it works well and, like Project Cars 2, they use puddles that seem to gradually fill in over time.

The puddles are interesting - they do impact the game when playing normally but I really noticed it when using that massive $40k motion rig. That thing is so powerful that getting hit by a car genuinely feels like getting hit so, when you go through puddles, you genuinely feel it. All the different surfaces react as you might expect and you can feel it.

Unfortunately, that's not an experience anyone can really have at home though it does still impact control.

Thanks for the response.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Jun 9, 2004
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Nice to see that time of day and dynamic lighting are in. Really curious to see how the XBO version compares.

On a side note, it's pretty disappointing that this is the only native 4K title. I'm more than fine with CBR, but a game like State of Decay isn't necessarily graphical powerhouse of a title.



Did they confirm that? Really impressive if they were able to keep it at 1080p with all the the improvements.
It is not the only native 4K title - the problem is that they didn't show the other native 4K titles that they have (well, one or two others). It's rather frustrating to see which titles were shown here since there is a lot more to come.
 
Feb 19, 2016
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Not really gonna congratulate turn 10 until I see this game on the Xbox one S.

The Xbox one x version could be just an upressed version with increased texture quality.

And still no dynamic weather?

.....

Hope they don't butcher the weaker console.
 

GHG

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Nov 9, 2006
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So it has true dynamic TOD?

Or 'just' dynamic weather with some 'scripted' daylight changes?

In one of the interviews with the devs at E3 they were saying "no two races will be the same".

So I'm hoping for the former rather than the latter.
 

KageMaru

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Oct 6, 2010
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It is not the only native 4K title - the problem is that they didn't show the other native 4K titles that they have (well, one or two others). It's rather frustrating to see which titles were shown here since there is a lot more to come.

Well that's good to know, thanks.

You guys have been doing a great job at covering the E3 titles so far, can't wait to see what future videos you guys produce.

Not really gonna congratulate turn 10 until I see this game on the Xbox one S.

The Xbox one x version could be just an upressed version with increased texture quality.

And still no dynamic weather?

.....

Hope they don't butcher the weaker console.

I thought dynamic weather was confirmed but it's just not entirely dynamic in this demo since they wanted to be able to display the feature consistently. If they kept it at truly dynamic, there's a chance people could wait in line, race through a race, and not experience a feature of the game. This isn't anything new for a showroom demo really.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Jun 9, 2004
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Well that's good to know, thanks.

You guys have been doing a great job at covering the E3 titles so far, can't wait to see what future videos you guys produce.
There's a *LOT* more coming. Was only limited by the encoding speeds + bandwidth of the hotel. Now that I'm back, I can start working with ALL of the footage.

Going to post a lot more 4K stuff but also things like Mario Odyssey, Fire Emblem Warriors and more.
 

FZW

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Jun 5, 2014
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Ambient occlusion is missing for most of the geometry.
Lighting is only right on photogrammetry assets.
Fhotogrammetry assets have really low resolution textures.
Most of reflections are not real time calculated.
Geometry reflections on the cars run at half the framerate.
Car shadows don't project over track assets.
Some tracks elements don't render at full resolution.

not bad for something done on a dev kit that's only 70-80% final
 

borges

Banned
Jun 21, 2016
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Damn, the differences between Forza 6 on Xbox One and Forza 7 on Xbox One X are massive...

 

Outrun

Member
Oct 7, 2014
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There's a *LOT* more coming. Was only limited by the encoding speeds + bandwidth of the hotel. Now that I'm back, I can start working with ALL of the footage.

Going to post a lot more 4K stuff but also things like Mario Odyssey, Fire Emblem Warriors and more.

Thanks man,

I can't wait.