ethomaz
Banned
What game did you play?
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Digital Foundry: Gran Turismo Sport is HDR's killer app
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
I've seen a bunch of videos and also in person running on the Pro.
Ultra low resolution reflections, 2D trees noticeable everywhere... And if you compare the trackball other racers, you can see the side bumps are flat in GTS. Not even a convincing bump map. It's distracting.
Game play wise it felt easier to handle than Forza Motorsport for whatever reason, but I don't know too much about sim racers.
ethomaz
Banned
Of course... you didnt play it.
Because the game you described in the post I quoted is not GTS.
Or maybe you are comparing with some racing game from the future... that is a possibility and it makes GTS last gen.
I did play it. One race, but also watched quite a bit. On the Pro no less.
None of what I said is patently false. They're just stuff that people say don't matter, or are otherwise not visible during normal game play.
They are to me.
But on-topic, I definitely don't think it is the best HDR showcase. I'm not even sure that many people would know there's anything special about a display if this game is the first they see.
ethomaz
Banned
I agree the HDR part is a bit personal because most HDR TVs didnt really support HDR (but says so) or the the owner needs to take a lot of time to calibrate the HDR.
Now technically the HDR implementation in GTS is ahead what today display can show... that is what PD said... you can believe or not.
But there is nothing last gen in the game.
Nothing last gen about this game? https://i.imgur.com/32AjPeh.png (ignore the colour, it's an SDR screen shot) folks are already talking about this aspect in another thread, so I won't go into too much detail, but the environments are really polygonal and just generally bad. Like they are stuck on low settings or something.
As for HDR, if I take this video of GTS and play one from say Horizon Zero Down, Ratchet and Clank or even Deus Ex MD, it doesn't hold up.
The thing is, the lighting on the cars is already impressive and is already the stand out feature without HDR. HDR itself doesn't cover up the shortfalls, and the cars still have horrible reflections at times (in the demo roll especially).
With Deus Ex MD, exiting a dark area and looking up at the sky is an entirely new and different experience in HDR. It's done so crazy well and fits the art style so perfectly that it adds a new dimension to the game.
Or how in Ratchet and Clank makes you feel the heat in the lava or Forza 7 gives the lightning the ferocity it would have in real life.
Hey John, great video as always. I agree with you that the implementation is top tier, but you said few games do HDR better. So I was wondering if you thought any other games were comparable? IMO Resogun is another game that does an awesome job of showcasing HDR.
Also now that you guys are planning on producing more HDR content, are you guys planning on doing a video covering some of the best HDR games out or those come up?
Sadly I don't think this video is on Netflix anymore. I just ran a search and couldn't find it.
Unknown?
Member
Whatever no other sims look as good and have the SAME problems. HDR here is better than all racing games too. Horizon definitely doesnt use HDR as well either.
Hawk269
Member
Since my Pro took a shit I have not been able to play the demo so this HDR video is the closest I have and it does look great, especially the replays with the letter boxing. I am a donator to DF so I download the high bit rate version. While replay looks incredible, the actual game play did not look as impressive. I know you have to actually play it to make a full assessment of it so I am not going to knock it too much, but I can see those that have certain complaints/constructive feedback.
The good news is my wife just green lighted me buying a new Pro since Sony are being ass-hats about repairing my launch Pro unit. So hopefully I will have it tomorrow and I can download the demo and give it a true test.
One thing I can say, regardless of what system you have, there are 3 really good looking racers, 1 for each platform and Pcars 2.
The good news is my wife just green lighted me buying a new Pro since Sony are being ass-hats about repairing my launch Pro unit. So hopefully I will have it tomorrow and I can download the demo and give it a true test.
One thing I can say, regardless of what system you have, there are 3 really good looking racers, 1 for each platform and Pcars 2.
It's a little different but in some ways comparing the HDR from one game to another is almost like what was done for the HDR implementation in The Bridge On The River Kwai and something like The Lego Movie, it just wouldn't work if HDR was treated in the same way because River Kwai needs a far more measured, sensitive approach to expand but not interfere with the aesthetic that Jack Hildyard and David Lean created. Whereas The Lego Movie lends itself better to a far more fully featured implementation of HDR, it really benefits from that.
That's not to say in any way that one is better than the other because I believe that both do exactly what they should do with HDR.
I love the way HDR has been handled in this but I also love how it's dealt with differently in games like the WipEout Omega Collection and also in all three Housemarque games that have implemented HDR. I don't think it's really as simple as HDR being right or wrong because HDR is no more than a tool, a paintbrush in the same way that colour, audio, textures, rhythm allows teams to create their own vision of what that game is.
I know it's not an either/or situation but ever since my first experience with HDR on a calibrate panel I really believed that it was a far larger step forward that going from 1080p to 4K. I also think it's a lot harder to sell to people, unless they can see it in person. I'm so hoping that HDR really starts to become the normal situation for games over the next year or so with all PS4s and the newer Xbox consoles supporting it.
That's not to say in any way that one is better than the other because I believe that both do exactly what they should do with HDR.
I love the way HDR has been handled in this but I also love how it's dealt with differently in games like the WipEout Omega Collection and also in all three Housemarque games that have implemented HDR. I don't think it's really as simple as HDR being right or wrong because HDR is no more than a tool, a paintbrush in the same way that colour, audio, textures, rhythm allows teams to create their own vision of what that game is.
I know it's not an either/or situation but ever since my first experience with HDR on a calibrate panel I really believed that it was a far larger step forward that going from 1080p to 4K. I also think it's a lot harder to sell to people, unless they can see it in person. I'm so hoping that HDR really starts to become the normal situation for games over the next year or so with all PS4s and the newer Xbox consoles supporting it.
Never heard of you. Seems like a tourist comment.
Hmm sounds a lil bit dubious to me.
ethomaz
Banned
What in your pic makes it last gen? Every game this gen has these graphics of worst.
GTS is just a ahead others with HDR and lighting.
The ground textures and backgrounds don't look last gen to you? I mean, that was my point earlier it doesn't seem to bother other people but it does to me.
eyeball_kid
Member
The grass looks great close-up, but from what I've seen they quickly switch to a lower LOD with distance, even as close as the other side of the track. The 2D trees and weeds aren't great, but they only really stick out in replays. I think most of the bits that look underwhelming were probably affordances in order to hit a locked 60fps on the base PS4. I wouldn't say it looks "last-gen", but the level design is somewhat plain. But all the tracks we've seen so far are racing tracks, not drive-your-Porsche-through-the-Bavarian-forests tracks.
MiloHoffman
Member
holy fucking shit cant wait to see GTS on PS5, that shit is gonna be something of biblical proportions
The person I was with when I was watching it said that the lighting model also had a rather close LOD, but I wasn't able to spot it myself.
Though, this is the sort of thing I expect to be better in the full game.
Hmm I sometimes lurk in the TV threads but never came across this term.
Why is pixel persistence important to HDR gaming?
John Wick
Member
Here we go............
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
It's pretty shocking how fucking stupid TV brands are when it comes to setting up HDR.
In order to get HDR even working on a TV, you have to jump through like 10 different hoops. I can only imagine how many people don't even have HDR up and running on their HDR TV.
For instance, on my Bravia - I have to use the proper HDMI inputs, using the wrong input won't work. I then have to go to settings, - inputs - enhance hdmi, turn that on.
Why the fuck isn't enhanced HDMI turned on to begin with?
All my friends who have HDR TV's, none of them actually had it up and running. I had to do it for them.
Rant over.
Anyway, nice work DF.
John Wick
Member
Which Forza? Also are you comparing the PC version or Xbox version???
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
If you are okay with getting a TV less than 50 inches, there are plenty of decent gaming friendly ( low input lag, low response time) 4k HDR TV's out there.
Go to:
www.rtings.com and investigate.
Just know that it takes like 1 hour to properly set up HDR on your TV. You better read that TV manual that most people just throw away.
Chris_Rivera
Member
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Maintenance
Member
Sadly, none of the videos display HDR on the S8 via YouTube. But yes, since the update videos run very choppy at 1440p or higher.
Can we not go through the console Warrior bullshit please? A game is either the greatest thing in existence or shit with some of you. We have an entire thread dedicated to that type of conversation, so I don't see why it has to be here.
Odd I searched for that exact title, many thanks.
Odd I searched for that exact title, many thanks.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
OMG, yes! It's an unintuitive mess.
My newly arrived Sony Bravia found out not all the ports support HDR and you needed to turn on enhanced HDMI mode where you are just clicking on your multiple menu buttons to try to find the damn setting like you mentioned. I had messed with my friends 4k Samsung and HDR seems so damn random from brand to brand and the settings are all called different things!
pixelation
Member
I really hope they make trees a priority, it's a shame that they have barely advanced in that regard since the PS1 days.
gutterboy44
Member
Edit: wrong GTS thread.
Because some devices might not work properly on an HDR enabled HDMI input.
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
Welp, I was worried my Gran Turismo thirst had placebo'd a lot of my tech takeaway with the demo, but it does seem that it was indeed great load times and silky smooth framerate!
Sad to say I don't have an HDR display yet. When 4K displays started hitting market, my thought was "well that's nice, but I don't NEED to have a 4K." Now that they're equipped with HDR, that's the real game changer for me. GT Sport and Horizon Zero Dawn are probably tracking to be my first HDR game tests once I do upgrade my display, which I'm planning this winter (probably early 2018).
Can't wait!
Sad to say I don't have an HDR display yet. When 4K displays started hitting market, my thought was "well that's nice, but I don't NEED to have a 4K." Now that they're equipped with HDR, that's the real game changer for me. GT Sport and Horizon Zero Dawn are probably tracking to be my first HDR game tests once I do upgrade my display, which I'm planning this winter (probably early 2018).
Can't wait!
ss_lemonade
Member
Understanding how it works with PCs at the moment is even worse
I'm sitting here now starting my comparisons and...let me just say that the results I'm seeing are genuinely surprising. GT has more detail than you seem to think in comparison to Forza 7.
plasmawave
Banned
Are you planing to do a GT DF Retro?
I wasnt a fan either, I can see why people like it, but it was movie full of nothing for me.
I don't know, on my Samsung I just plugged it into HDMI 1 and it picked up that the Pro was transmitting HDR content and...... that was it.
I mean there might have been a little more to it than that, but the fact I remember not having to do a great deal other than make sure I had it plugged into the right hdmi slot makes me think not.
It's interesting to see how they both do trees up close.
GT seems to use more 3D elements in the trees but relies on leaf textures that are always facing the player. Forza also uses flat tree textures but in the cross shape so that they don't rotate while driving.
I'll have a nice video on this soon.
Reason is that last year/this year models still are more or less early adopter's HDR televisions. Manufacturers have had cases where some obscure input device did not work properly if HDR was enabled. Devices should handshake a signal format but sometimes things may go wrong and bad settings are applied. They play safe and keep it an optional feature for now.
Input device and tv manufacturers work hard to overcome incompatibility issues so time will make this better. I don't even want to talk about HDMI/HDR specification issues which always leave room for implementation differences. Next year you want HybridLogGammaHDR(HLG), HDR10(dynamic) and HDMI2.1(with freesync) televisions so this will never ends
That will be awesome
It's interesting to see how they both do trees up close.
GT seems to use more 3D elements in the trees but relies on leaf textures that are always facing the player. Forza also uses flat tree textures but in the cross shape so that they don't rotate while driving.
I'll have a nice video on this soon.
Can't wait
One thing I noticed about Forza is that they pour little details in spots that you might not expect. Like modeling a round valve on the bottom of a stand or certain details in the stands. Little things like that.
It's really impressive.
I'll have a nice video on this soon.
Oo can't wait. Great work John 😊