Dee Dah Dave
Member
This is the highest quality PR anyone has ever seen.
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[Digital Foundry] New Scorpio Spec Leak: ESRAM Gone, GPU Features Revealed
- Thread starter Hoo-doo
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Locuza
Member
Under the assumption that AMD would charge meaningful extra fees for something trivial as SMT or even clock speeds.
Herp Derpington
Member
I'm not defending it just pointing out how it makes sense that they chose the names they did. I'd prefer a numbering system myself.
As for the ultimate discussion that's a silly gripe. Companies do this sort of stuff all the time. Full HD? What happens after you come up with something better? Ultra HD! For the time it's out it's the ultimate machine for doing everything listed. Thr term ultimate doesn't preclude them from using it again cause it's not even in the name. It's just a colorful descriptor for what it is. Not sure why this is so confusing for people.
MeisterLeder
Banned
So when do you guys think will we see some proper leaks and not something outdated?
Really wanna know more.
Really wanna know more.
ethomaz
Banned
Pulp Fiction Is perfection.
Story, pace, music, actors and actresses, direction, scenario, quotes, etc.
It is wonderful piece of art.
Story, pace, music, actors and actresses, direction, scenario, quotes, etc.
It is wonderful piece of art.
"I do believe Marsellus Wallace, my husband, your boss, told you to take ME out and do whatever I wanted. Now I wanna dance, I wanna win. I want that trophy, so dance good."
So this was bullshit then?
yes he was talking about eating a beefy cheese burger and then taking a shit
I'd be shocked if they didn't. Product tiering to address market needs at a range of price points is pretty standard practice.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Scorpio can easily get 2 R3 (4C/4T) compute units. And that quote makes it clear, as expected, it would be limited in ways exceeding just specific features such as SMT and clock speed. And, honestly, I love seeing how big their launch lineup will be. I really hope Microsoft got in on all that action.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Even if they didn't for those things, I think they definitely charge more depending on the power draw of the part, so Microsoft may want to come in under a specific threshold.
arhra
Member
Their pricing strategies for their consumer products are irrelevant.
Semi-custom designs are IP licensing deals, with the customer bearing the cost of production. They're not buying finished chips off the shelf. AMD won't be charging MS anything other than whatever the licensing fee is, and production will be contracted out to either GloFo or TSMC.
Nah, have been since 2002. First non Nintendo console I ever owned.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Why is this xbot always in the xbox threads.
Wait, you NEVER owned a Sega or a Playstation at all before Xbox? That's insane.
Trainsmove
Banned
Here's my speculation based on the information we know.
Proof of speculation.
Exhibit A;
October 5, 2016. Phil Sspencer :http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-head-phil-spencer-talks-scorpio-ps4-pro-4k-re/1100-6444198/
"We'd looked at doing something that was higher performance this year, and I'd say the [PS4] Pro is about what we thought--with the GPU, CPU, memory that was here this year--that you could go do, and we decided that we wanted to do something different."
To me this says one thing, that any CPU,GPU, and Memory technology available in 2016 is not in Scorpio.
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-processor-6-core-model-700-usd-rumor/
Exhibit B;
Jan 5, 2017 " The Picture'
http://wccftech.com/xbox-scorpio-amd-ryzen-vega/
Exhibit C; Scorpio white paper
"4x L2 cache"
Based on these exhibits here's what i think will be in Scorpio.
CPU:
RyZen 8 cores Notebook based without SMT. SR5 @ 2.2 - 2.6Ghz
GPU:
Vega based 14mn "active" 54CU of 56CU @ 900Mhz 4.5% of XB1
Memory:
Power is why i chose GDDR5x 12GB 384-bit @ 3350Ghz 320GB/s
As far as cost Phil all ready said console level pricing or premium price.
Custom chips do not cost manufacturers hundreds of dollars, you must remember that these companies buy chips in bulk. Do you remember the leaked document from Microsoft that showed Xbox One SOC would cost exactly $26 and that's for all Technologies and Licensing of core Technologies. This SOC may cost MS only $30 - $40 Max. Example "A9 chip found inside of the iPhone 6s and 6s Plus. The estimate worked out to something in the range of $22 to $24, in line with an estimate provided by IHS iSuppli."
Scorpio start $399 and up
Proof of speculation.
Exhibit A;
October 5, 2016. Phil Sspencer :http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-head-phil-spencer-talks-scorpio-ps4-pro-4k-re/1100-6444198/
"We'd looked at doing something that was higher performance this year, and I'd say the [PS4] Pro is about what we thought--with the GPU, CPU, memory that was here this year--that you could go do, and we decided that we wanted to do something different."
To me this says one thing, that any CPU,GPU, and Memory technology available in 2016 is not in Scorpio.
http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-processor-6-core-model-700-usd-rumor/
Exhibit B;
Jan 5, 2017 " The Picture'
http://wccftech.com/xbox-scorpio-amd-ryzen-vega/
Exhibit C; Scorpio white paper
"4x L2 cache"
Based on these exhibits here's what i think will be in Scorpio.
CPU:
RyZen 8 cores Notebook based without SMT. SR5 @ 2.2 - 2.6Ghz
GPU:
Vega based 14mn "active" 54CU of 56CU @ 900Mhz 4.5% of XB1
Memory:
Power is why i chose GDDR5x 12GB 384-bit @ 3350Ghz 320GB/s
As far as cost Phil all ready said console level pricing or premium price.
Custom chips do not cost manufacturers hundreds of dollars, you must remember that these companies buy chips in bulk. Do you remember the leaked document from Microsoft that showed Xbox One SOC would cost exactly $26 and that's for all Technologies and Licensing of core Technologies. This SOC may cost MS only $30 - $40 Max. Example "A9 chip found inside of the iPhone 6s and 6s Plus. The estimate worked out to something in the range of $22 to $24, in line with an estimate provided by IHS iSuppli."
Scorpio start $399 and up
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Yea, that CPU comment always kinda jumped out at me also. I'm surprised you think it would be an SR5. That has hyperthreading if I'm not mistaken. Also, on a further look, I don't think Scorpio would ever get a Summit Ridge chip. Those are specifically for desktops only. I would need to find back that Zen APU page I was looking at before that gave more recent information. Need to check something.
N64 was my first console. Never had a PlayStation until 3.Why is this xbot always in the xbox threads.
Wait, you NEVER owned a Sega or a Playstation at all before Xbox? That's insane.
Proelite
Member
As the slowest GDDR5x is 10GB/s, 384bit bus would make the bus at least 480 gb/s.
Absolutely no reason to use GDDR5x for a 384 bit bus for bandwidth that'll be unused.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Proelite
Member
Hawk269
Member
This!
Most enthusiast that don't have agenda are hoping for Zen, but many that I know are not banking on it or counting on it. It is hopeful, but not a deal breaker. If they manage to get Zen, it will just make things all that much better, but even if it is Jaguar, with the GPU, Memory bandwidth and memory amount, it still will be the most powerful console available by the end of the year.
I think a certain percentage of posters are actually hoping that it does not have Zen for some potential meltdowns from some people. I mean, Senju has been probably the most vocal advocate of potentially it having Zen, but based on his posts, if it does not have Zen it would be more of a "damn, wish it had it, but still going to buy it and enjoy it" type of thing. I think some are hoping that there will be complete meltdowns for some reason. I have a PRO and a very high end PC and as a gamer of all platforms, not sure why some would hope it does not have a higher end CPU.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Yea, it would probably please some for all the wrong reasons if it didn't turn to have Zen, but for me it's just all about my excitement for Scorpio and wanting it to have the best possible. I also genuinely have a pretty good feeling based on attending the Microsoft Press Briefing last year, along with participating in Xbox Fanfest. Should it turn out not to be as I wanted it, no big deal. Suck it up and move on, we still have an awesome console on our hands.
Great memory bandwidth, monster GPU, and a decent bump in RAM. Know which xbox one title I want to replay the most on Scorpio? Quantum Break!
SenjutsuSage
Banned
LelouchZero
Member
I'd like for it to have Zen but some of the things that AMD have said about it make it sound like it isn't the most plausible thing to see, I would be ecstatic if it has 4+ Zen cores.
I believe the consoles could really benefit from a much faster CPU than the 8 Jaguar cores they have now, in some games their CPUs are what holds them back from targeting 60 fps, or even a solid 30 fps in rarer cases. GPU increases for the mid-generation upgraded machines put them over 2x more powerful but if the CPU doesn't increase much alongside it then 60 fps may not be a feasible thing for games that are CPU limited.
It's of course down to the developers to offer unlocked frame-rates or a 60 fps mode but there are some titles which appear to be blatantly CPU limited, where a similar spec'd PC with a more powerful CPU can run the game at similar graphical settings at 1080p 60 fps, or both the higher and lower end models feature performance issues which point towards CPU limitations.
I love the Xbox consoles and have all of them, the same with the PlayStation consoles besides the Vita and the original PS4, I also have a mid-range PC. I just want a better console gaming experience for myself and many others.
MilkyJoe
Member
The argument against it not having Zen or any other non Jaguar cpu is it'll throw a huge spanner in the iterative model plan they have been peddling, when Scopio 2 drops.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
So is this thing going to have an i7-7740K in it or what?
Mind expanding to why?
Yup, OC'd as well with active liquid cooling. In Panos we trust.
MilkyJoe
Member
in a nut shell it's a shitty processor now, it was a shitty processor back in 2013 and it is going to be an uncompromising piece of shit in 4 to 5 years time, when it has to be BC/FC with Scorpio 2. Who would want that cross to bear in the face of the competition?
MeisterLeder
Banned
IMO Phil/Microsoft already said they dont want traditional Console cycles anymore. "Beyond Generations".
To me if they are really going for that then scorpio needs to be a bit future proof ready. A newer CPU would help with that.
Launching a 2017 machine with a laughable weak 2013 CPU isnt really something i would call future proof or ready for "Beyond Generations".
I hope there is a dedicated Event before E3. Or at least some leaks from GDC
To me if they are really going for that then scorpio needs to be a bit future proof ready. A newer CPU would help with that.
Launching a 2017 machine with a laughable weak 2013 CPU isnt really something i would call future proof or ready for "Beyond Generations".
I hope there is a dedicated Event before E3. Or at least some leaks from GDC
MilkyJoe
Member
Exact-a-mondo.
I'm not saying they won't, but if they do go with Jaguar, then lets hope they go back to regular cycles in 4 years time.
This is also a good reason to not do zen. While we might gnash our teeth, Joe public won't give a shit about Zen and will just see the $499 price and walk away. Especially if pro is $349 by then
MS have two choices. $399 with jaguar and more GPU (even the ram starts to get a bit expensive..). Or zen at $399 and eat the loss. They can't premium price unless they've decided to simply not compete for volume and instead want to go with lower sales and pitch Scorpio as a more accessible PC for your living room at a reasonable bit not mass market price
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
I think Zen is likely/possible, but I'm not convinced MS will stick with their "Beyond Generations" talk. They needed to reinvigorate the brand, and it's good marketing, but is very very easy for them to back off of in the long run. It could end up a significant claim, or tweaked to mean slightly better backwards compatibility, or even dropped completely in favor of the old model or new trends.
It's really tough to future-proof given shifting industry trends and/or tech roadmap delays. I think both MS or Sony would sacrifice most of their bigger ideas or previous promises to get a console out the door within the right timeframe and price point.
It's going to be interesting to see regardless...
It hinges on the decision of Scorpio being developed for when PS5/Xbox 5 come out because I imagine Sony will dump PS4/Pro as primary development when PS5 rolls up. If Scorpio has a weak Jaguar CPU, it's probably not wise to straddle that old gen and next gen for development in 3-4 years. Who wants Halo 7 or whatever made for Jaguar Scorpio holding back Xbox 5, no thanks. However that may never happen because Scorpio could just be a console for the next 3-4 years and then Microsoft move on like Sony will.
Makes me very wary of it if they plan to straddle Jaguar gen and next gen with Scorpio and it's successor, you could say it's a waste if they do it the other way but at least it wouldn't hamper future development as much. Sure, you might not have a problem paying for that leap to tide you over if you're unhappy with Xbox One/PS4 performance and are cool with PS5/Xbox 5 starting in 2020 or thereabouts.
If Scorpio is Zen then it could be a good cheap entry point in 2020 for next gen games whereas Sony would have only an expensive PS5 to compete in next gen games and Microsoft still have Xbox 5 to go against it as well. A Jaguar Scorpio has a short life span or worse, it hampers next gen Xbox.
Makes me very wary of it if they plan to straddle Jaguar gen and next gen with Scorpio and it's successor, you could say it's a waste if they do it the other way but at least it wouldn't hamper future development as much. Sure, you might not have a problem paying for that leap to tide you over if you're unhappy with Xbox One/PS4 performance and are cool with PS5/Xbox 5 starting in 2020 or thereabouts.
If Scorpio is Zen then it could be a good cheap entry point in 2020 for next gen games whereas Sony would have only an expensive PS5 to compete in next gen games and Microsoft still have Xbox 5 to go against it as well. A Jaguar Scorpio has a short life span or worse, it hampers next gen Xbox.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I hope you are right but I fall back on why Microsoft haven't talked about the CPU at all? If there was a big boost with it don't you think they would have said as they have done with the GPU specifically?
Calm Killer
In all media, only true fans who consume every book, film, game, or pog collection deserve to know what's going on.
Why is this xbot always in the xbox threads.
Wait, you NEVER owned a Sega or a Playstation at all before Xbox? That's insane.
I am the same way. NES-SNES-N64-Gamecube-Xbox-Xbox360-Xbox One. Why is that crazy? I played a Sega Gensis at my families house, but my parents weren't going to buy me every system that existed. Nor would most others. It was one system and that was it back in the day.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Yup, he said that. And we are still almost completely in the dark how exactly they want to pursue this strategy. But I agree that the CPU used in Scorpio will indeed be a suitable indicator for their long-term planning.
Yangshouwen
Banned
MS are holding an Event in May. This is where i expect Scorpio to be revealed.
It might be just, you know, PR.
I'm more inclined to think that Microsoft's spiel about 'beyond generations' is their attempt to not make Scorpio feel like it's coming late to the party(generation).
Future-proofing your console with expensive tech while it's still going to be tethered to the Xbox One for the forseeable future seems like a poor business move all around.
They just need to come out on top in DF Face-Offs and have it be affordable. That's it.
The idea that they are genuinely going to blow it all out on hardware with a niche premium console that rivals even high-end gaming PC's in terms of power runs completely counter to the entire presentation they gave last E3. It would leave the Xbox One in a ridiculous position and future-proofed or not, it'll still be completely eclipsed by Xbox One Three a few years later. That's how fast this tech progresses and trying to future proof is like trying to hit a moving target that has a few years head start.
I'd say them hitting the 399 pricepoint is magnitudes more important to them than whether or not it packs a Zen processor or not. Despite what we all personally would want, ofcourse.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Let's at least hope it is Vega because if it turns out to be Polaris/Jaguar I'm retiring to a bunker that is GAF proof...
Lone Wolf
Member
When was this announced?
Jaguar Victory
Member
$399 for you I guess. I want all the goodies that $500 can get me.
Samurai G0SU
Member
i dont think they could have said "this has vega!" when the amd conference introducing vega didnt happen yet.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It's going to be between $399 and $499, that much is obvious. But the lower price is the important one if they want to shift some units. I think Microsoft want the Scorpio to boost Xbox sales and not just be a niche option for the hardcore fans, so pricing will be paramount.
The inclusion of Zen wouldn't change the price much. It would be like $10 worth of greater silicon area. So $399 with Zen wouldn't be impossible if a new CPU was an option. Plus they can do some 'day one' editions at $499 with a bigger HDD and stuff to scalp the hardcore. Then sell at $399 to everyone else who wants one.
It has to be an 'obvious' buy versus the PS4 Pro for anyone looking for the best all round machine, so the price can't be much higher than that console. Otherwise that wont work.
The inclusion of Zen wouldn't change the price much. It would be like $10 worth of greater silicon area. So $399 with Zen wouldn't be impossible if a new CPU was an option. Plus they can do some 'day one' editions at $499 with a bigger HDD and stuff to scalp the hardcore. Then sell at $399 to everyone else who wants one.
It has to be an 'obvious' buy versus the PS4 Pro for anyone looking for the best all round machine, so the price can't be much higher than that console. Otherwise that wont work.
Outrun
Member
The chakra levels are rapidly escalating here.
A newer CPU isn't going to balloon the price $100, that is absurd. A $100 difference is the difference between a dedicated CPU/GPU setup and an APU. Good god, could you imagine the size of an APU that costs $100 more than what was used in the launch XBO?
tiredheadcrab
Member
This thread got to 103 pages and its hardly based on the original video which was also reporting outdated information.
I cant imagine what the thread will be when the final specs of Scorpio are revealed.
I cant imagine what the thread will be when the final specs of Scorpio are revealed.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Well shows the initial excitement l guess
No, not for me. For Microsoft's business interest and their marketshare.
What you personally want is irrelevant. Your willingness to part with 500 for the 'goodies' is likely not shared by the market at large. The device would flop at 500+ USD regardless of whether it's packing Zen or not.
It isnt.
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