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[Matt]

Yeah i bought it up and closed it in the same sentence, a little quip in answer to your man there.

Xbox forum as in no one wants to see the thread bumped to see people getting their knickers in a twist over something off topic.

"[my] man there"? What does that mean?

Again you brought up a topic that you said you were confused about, and I addressed it. Unless your point is that diversions for negative comments is acceptable, but not informative ones.

Also, frankly discussion about the Pro isn't really off topic here, considering this has seemingly become an all-encompassing Scorpio thread, and the business motivations behind a mid-gen upgrade are absolutely related to that.

 

[MilkyJoe]

"[my] man there"? What does that mean?

Again you brought up a topic that you said you were confused about, and I addressed it. Unless your point is that diversions for negative comments is acceptable, but not informative ones.

Also, frankly discussion about the Pro isn't really off topic here, considering this has seemingly become an all-encompassing Scorpio thread, and the business motivations behind a mid-gen upgrade are absolutely related to that.

I don't remember being confused, I do remember saying "a conversation for another time" which implies I'm not readily interested in having said conversation, or it might mean that any negative comments are extrinsic, so a fruitless endeavor...

But today it's the former. If one went through life having endless conversations over a quip, then one would never get anything done. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Spladam]

Glad to see people taking leaks as fact.

Isn't that what we do here?

I thought this was known forever, didn't they announce GDDR5 at E3?

They did, but without that we had to know the ESRAM was gone, even MS admitted that was stupid.

Of course it's not going to have a ZEN in it, did we really expect them to shove in a brand new piece of silicon in there and still have a reasonable MSRP? As long as it's still on track to be a 6TF machine, which I think MS will hold to that one key fact, then we're good.

It was never going to be any kind of "savior"

 

[Matt]

I don't remember being confused, I do remember saying "a conversation for another time" which implies I'm not readily interested in having said conversation, or it might mean that any negative comments are extrinsic, so a fruitless endeavor...

But today it's the former. If one went through life having endless conversations over a quip, then one would never get anything done. ¯_(&#12484_/¯

If you weren't confused, why did you say:

quite why Sony did it that is a big elephant in the room, but that's a conversation no one wants to have.

"Why Sony did it" isn't an "elephant in the room," it's a very simple question with a very straightforward answer, one that I provide. You then doubled down on illustrating your confusion by saying that the original PS4 was the high margin unit, when it, in fact, isn't.

You also said "that's a conversation no one wants to have," which again wasn't true, as I was happy to help you understand the subject that you were confused by with just a few sentences.

So, really what happened here is you just wanted to be snarky and dismissive, and I didn't let it pass by without comment. So just say thank you, or don't say anything and that will be that.

 

[MilkyJoe]

If you weren't confused, why did you say:



"Why Sony did it" isn't an "elephant in the room," it's a very simple question with a very straightforward answer, one that I provide. You then doubled down on illustrating your confusion by saying that the original PS4 was the high margin unit, when it, in fact, isn't.

You also said "that's a conversation no one wants to have," which again wasn't true, as I was happy to help you understand the subject that you were confused by with just a few sentences.

So, really what happened here is you just wanted to be snarky and dismissive, and I didn't let it pass by without comment. So just say thank you, or don't say anything and that will be that.

What really happened here is I made a little quip and you got your jimmies rustled and now here we are with you, no doubt, arms crossed with a pleased look on your face, hitting the refresh key hoping you get a thank you, or the very least, the last word.

 

[Caayn]

Come on Matt and MilkyJoe, can't we get along?

 

[Matt]

What really happened here is I made a little quip and you got your jimmies rustled and now here we are with you, no doubt, arms crossed with a pleased look on your face, hitting the refresh key hoping you get a thank you, or the very least, the last word.

I didn't get my "jimmies rustled," I provided a simple explanation to something you were horribly confused by. I understand you being so defensive now, it must be embarrassing. That's ok, I'll leave you to it.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I didn't get my "jimmies rustled," I provided a simple explanation to something you were horribly confused by. I understand you being so defensive now, it must be embarrassing. That's ok, I'll leave you to it.

The default internet rebuttal.

 

[TakeItSlowDude]

Matt, please don't derail this thread with passive aggressive behavior.

 

[MaulerX]

I didn't get my "jimmies rustled," I provided a simple explanation to something you were horribly confused by. I understand you being so defensive now, it must be embarrassing. That's ok, I'll leave you to it.

You need to relax dude...

 

[Lemondish]

You need to relax dude...

Matt, please don't derail this thread with passive aggressive behavior.

The default internet rebuttal.

Honestly don't even know why you're all gangin' up on this guy.

Also rich calling that the default internet rebuttal when it was the same damn thing you literally just said, lol.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

sony defense in a scorpio thread. what part of the cycle are we at now? whats nexT?

 

[op_ivy]

Yea. The R looks different.

Thats an old photo. Font wasnt dialed in, plenty of time since for it to have changed.

Super stoked to see the final R at e3!

 

[MilkyJoe]

Honestly don't even know why you're all gangin' up on this guy.

Also rich calling that the default internet rebuttal when it was the same damn thing you literally just said, lol.

I'm at a loss as to what you are reading.

Thats an old photo. Font wasnt dialed in, plenty of time since for it to have changed.

Super stoked to see the final R at e3!

I'm not sure whats having a laugh and what's not anymore

 

[Moonstone]

Matt, please don't derail this thread with passive aggressive behavior.

Matt isn't the passive aggressive poster in this thread. In fact he is the most reasonable poster here.

 

[onQ123]

People on this board are funny.

1. The reason MS announced Scorpio early is to entice some users to wait and not buy a PC / Ps4 pro.

2. To do this they listed 320 GBS and 6 TF, 12 GB, 3 specs that are important.

3. You can bet your bottom that if Zen / Ryzen was included, it would be leaked, as that would also make some consumers wait for Zen.

MS will have leaked or said everything they can to make consumers keep cash aside in their wallets for end of this year and hold off. There is NO MARKETING or FINANCIAL benefit of keeping power upgrades quiet, at all.

So, there is no Ryzen IMO and it will be what they have already said, 8 cores (JAG), and 6 TF.

Microsoft has made no mention of 12GB of ram yet

 

[icespide]

I can't even figure out what they were arguing about

 

[Samurai G0SU]

I can't even figure out what they were arguing about

Elephant.

 

[Trainsmove]

You completely misunderstood his post. He wasn't talking about porting code from one CPU to another, he was talking about porting architectural features from one CPU family to another.

He's talking about mixing and matching features from CPU architectures that are four or five years apart when designing a custom CPU. You missed his point.

CPU features have all ways moved forward. A.K.A

"MMX instructions and SSE2"

Any hardware architectural features can be emulated with in software or with new hardware, it's all based on x86. If it's ZEN then the
Jaguar cores should have no problem running in a ZEN CPU environment. Yes Xbox One Hardware has special extensions that cater to its closed Box console environment. But this is not unknown to the API or driver stack.

 

[op_ivy]

People on this board are funny.

1. The reason MS announced Scorpio early is to entice some users to wait and not buy a PC / Ps4 pro.

2. To do this they listed 320 GBS and 6 TF, 12 GB, 3 specs that are important.

3. You can bet your bottom that if Zen / Ryzen was included, it would be leaked, as that would also make some consumers wait for Zen.

MS will have leaked or said everything they can to make consumers keep cash aside in their wallets for end of this year and hold off. There is NO MARKETING or FINANCIAL benefit of keeping power upgrades quiet, at all.

So, there is no Ryzen IMO and it will be what they have already said, 8 cores (JAG), and 6 TF.

You dont think thetes any marketing benefit to not release all infirmation a year and a half before launch? How about multiple massive forum discussions centered around speculation on your product including this one with 6000+ posts and huge views (im on mobile and cant see the number)? Or that if they do still have positive news to share (of course they do, even if the cpu isnt ryzen) that wouldnt further kickstart hype and anticipation?

 

[anothertech]

I'm at a loss as to what you are reading.

Same thing we are all reading. You got called out and didn't have the maturity to admit what you said lol. Sok. Matt handled you just fine.

Microsoft has made no mention of 12GB of ram yet

Yup. Could be 8 gigs of ddr4 or 32 gigs of HBM 2 for all we know. What we do know is with Xbone, they added the esRam and DDR 3 bandwidth together and pretended that's how it works lol. Hope that's not what's happening again in some form.

 

[JaggedSac]

Matt isn't the passive aggressive poster in this thread. In fact he is the most reasonable poster here.

Yep, seems that way.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

But the R is off

That's because its semi custom.

 

[Dynasty]

I can't even figure out what they were arguing about

 

[Trainsmove]

I'm showing this document because some here have forgot how much Sony and MS pay for hardware. Forget about the specs that's a more powerful console than ( GPU + CPU = 2.8TF) XB1 but look at how much it cost. System cost is just $225 and the SOC costs $50 and XB1 was $399 at launch. A HD 7770 retail cost was $100 -149 and MS pad less than $25 for the GPU. Even if you add $20 to the cost of the GPU it's still in line $399 that was based on having Kinect in the box.
Scorpio most likey will be $299 - 400 with a 4TB harddrive and thank God no Kinect.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Just thought I'd let you know that I reached out to Phil for you and he just tweeted me and confirmed that they totally did it just to annoy you.

On the other hand, Major Nelson says that he is completely shocked that you of all people don't like it.

Thanks! I tried to call them myself, but I guess they must be busy redesigning the logo for me. What a great couple of guys!

CPU features have all ways moved forward. A.K.A

"MMX instructions and SSE2"

Any hardware architectural features can be emulated with in software or with new hardware, it's all based on x86.

You still don't understand. The topic was not about emulation at all, or maintaining compatibility with old code in any way. It was discussing whether novel future architectural components might be selectively folded back into old designs.

 

[borges]

I'm showing this document because some here have forgot how much Sony and MS pay for hardware. Forget about the specs that's a more powerful console than ( GPU + CPU = 2.8TF) XB1 but look at how much it cost. System cost is just $225 and the SOC costs $50 and XB1 was $399 at launch. A HD 7770 retail cost was $100 -149 and MS pad less than $25 for the GPU. Even if you add $20 to the cost of the GPU it's still in line $399 that was based on having Kinect in the box.
Scorpio most likey will be $299 - 400 with a 4TB harddrive and thank God no Kinect.

No way 4TB. And Xbox One was 499 at launch

 

[Dynasty]

Microsoft has made no mention of 12GB of ram yet

If they want to reach there target of over 320 GB/s of memory bandwith, they will have to have 12GB of GDDR5 ram which will give 327 GB/s.

 

[onQ123]

I'm showing this document because some here have forgot how much Sony and MS pay for hardware. Forget about the specs that's a more powerful console than ( GPU + CPU = 2.8TF) XB1 but look at how much it cost. System cost is just $225 and the SOC costs $50 and XB1 was $399 at launch. A HD 7770 retail cost was $100 -149 and MS pad less than $25 for the GPU. Even if you add $20 to the cost of the GPU it's still in line $399 that was based on having Kinect in the.
Scorpio most likey will be $299 - 400 with a 4TB harddrive and thank God no Kinect.

That was from the documents of what was going to be a even weaker Xbox than what we ennded up with & even the one we ended up with was no where near 2,8TF with the CPU + GPU.

You thought a 8 core Jaguar was 1.5TF?

 

[Putty]

That's because its semi custom.

Winner.

 

[hanspampel]

Well, is your question "why did they do this" or is your comment "haha it bombed!"?

Because you presented one, and then switched to the other when I took the time to answer you.

Edit: Umm, the PS4 is the low cost entry point, the Pro is the higher margin unit.

Ps4 Pro at $399 is lower margin than Ps4 Slim at $299.

Ps4 Pro is not priced to be a higher margin Product. It's just $50 more expensive than a 1TB Ps4 Slim, while having a over 50% bigger SOC die. Faster and more expensive ram. Bigger and more expensive power supply, cooling, chassis, etc. Volume of ps4 pro is also lower, so economy of scale benefits are also less.

Only way the ps4 pro beats a ps4 slim in margin:
Ps4 slim + third party game bundled at $249 vs Ps4 Pro without game at $399.

 

[onQ123]

If they want to reach there target of over 320 GB/s of memory bandwith, they will have to have 12GB of GDDR5 ram which will give 327 GB/s.

Or it can be HBM + DDR

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I can't even figure out what they were arguing about

You butting in all the time

 

[MilkyJoe]

Same thing we are all reading. You got called out and didn't have the maturity to admit what you said lol. Sok. Matt handled you just fine.

Sure, or you could say that I made a cheeky quip, within a reply where he was not the original addressee, he jumps in and takes just 2 replies before using an insinuating tone. Never spoken to the bloke before... Conversation goes places when social skills are engaged from the get go. Am I under some obligation to give rude people the time of day? He appears to have a fan following, I'll give him that.

Ha, my irl nickname is G... but which one am I...

 

[marciocdb]

No way 4TB. And Xbox One was 499 at launch

Yeah... 99% chance of having 1 TB as default... with maybe some 2 TB bundles...

 

[MilkyJoe]

Yeah... 99% chance of having 1 TB as default... with maybe some 2 TB bundles...

Probably be 1TB, 2tb laptop drives are still quite expensive. As long as the USB drive support is there, it's no big deal. I've at least 20 disk games and all the freebies installed on me external 2TB and I'm about a third of the way through capacity.

 

[Space_nut]

I'm excited to see this on Scorpio on my new 4k tv

 

[megathemiis]

I fixed the gif to better suit this thread.

 

[El_Chino]

I fixed the gif to better suit this thread.

Well done.

 

[djnewwest]

There's no way Microsoft would delay Scorpio for a whole year and still slap in a Jaguar CPU.

 

[CrustyBritches]

System cost is just $225 and the SOC costs $50 and XB1 was $399 at launch. A HD 7770 retail cost was $100 -149 and MS pad less than $25 for the GPU. Even if you add $20 to the cost of the GPU it's still in line $399 that was based on having Kinect in the box.
Scorpio most likey will be $299 - 400 with a 4TB harddrive and thank God no Kinect.

As previously mentioned the X1 was $499 at launch. These are more accurate numbers:

Just the console and the power supply was $357. The APU and half of the RAM(for VRAM) cost $140. You couldn't get an APU as powerful as either X1/PS4 at the time. However, a 7790, a card more powerful than X1 and pretty close to PS4, was as low as $99 with Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite, and Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon included in the summer of 2013. So $190 for CPU/GPU on PC vs $140 on X1. You'd would have paid $460 for the PC with Windows or $373 without it. So $357(X1) vs $460(2013 PC).

 

[MilkyJoe]

I'm excited to see this on Scorpio on my new 4k tv

That looks real, almost!

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

There's no way Microsoft would delay Scorpio for a whole year and still slap in a Jaguar CPU.

Then it needs to be explained why Microsoft haven't hyped up having this new CPU tech. They have literally stated Scorpio has 8 CPU cores and nothing else. All the talk has been about the GPU even in the whitepaper DF did an article about.

 

[Colbert]

I fixed the gif to better suit this thread.

Best GIF to describe this thread!

Spoiler

Yes, I know I am part of it

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

So, really what happened here is you just wanted to be snarky and dismissive, and I didn't let it pass by without comment. So just say thank you, or don't say anything and that will be that.

Whoa there Matt. You serious with this? Considering your rancor earlier in this thread about daring to be approached by someone who couldn't let your comments go unchallenged, this is how you engage? What sort of elitist response is that?

 

[Hoo-doo]

Whoa there Matt. You serious with this? Considering your rancor earlier in this thread about daring to be approached by someone who couldn't let your comments go unchallenged, this is how you engage? What sort of elitist response is that?

MilkyJoe was the one getting called out, but instead of actually engaging in normal conversation, he decided to double down instead of potentially admitting he was wrong or that his post just didn't make sense. Matt actually answered the question that was posted.

But can we get past this childish shit now?

 

[Jaguar Victory]

As previously mentioned the X1 was $499 at launch. These are more accurate numbers:

Just the console and the power supply was $357. The APU and half of the RAM(for VRAM) cost $140. You couldn't get an APU as powerful as either X1/PS4 at the time. However, a 7790, a card more powerful than X1 and pretty close to PS4, was as low as $99 with Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite, and Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon included in the summer of 2013. So $190 for CPU/GPU on PC vs $140 on X1. You'd would have paid $460 for the PC with Windows or $373 without it. So $357(X1) vs $460(2013 PC).

Pretty sure the hd7790 was closer to $169 in 2013.

 

[MilkyJoe]

MilkyJoe was the one getting called out, but instead of actually engaging in normal conversation, he decided to double down instead of potentially admitting he was wrong or that his post just didn't make sense. Matt actually answered the question that was posted.

But can we get past this childish shit now?

I'd have done so if he wasn't socially inept. If a defense force comes running at every dig, then what can you do?

Now as per my original post on the subject, it's a conversation for another time, so let's indeed move on from this childish shit, that people keep replying to, even though it should've ended 2 pages ago.

 

[Okami Haundo]

Then it needs to be explained why Microsoft haven't hyped up having this new CPU tech. They have literally stated Scorpio has 8 CPU cores and nothing else. All the talk has been about the GPU even in the whitepaper DF did an article about.

Has Microsoft officially said anything about Scorpio's specs since that initial announcement?

 

[MilkyJoe]

Then it needs to be explained why Microsoft haven't hyped up having this new CPU tech. They have literally stated Scorpio has 8 CPU cores and nothing else. All the talk has been about the GPU even in the whitepaper DF did an article about.

They haven't said anything past 6tf on the gpu, have they? That's pretty up in the air too.