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Digital Foundry: Paladins runs at 60fps on Switch and it's superb

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Its somewhat old, but since nobody posts these rather excellent takes i figure ill be the poster then :)

Video:



Article:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-paladins-is-60fps-on-switch-and-its-superb

Performance docked:
Predictably, the principal price in hitting 60 frames per second comes from resolution. In docked play, Paladins uses dynamic resolution scaling (DRS), maxing out at 1600x900 resolution in the lightest scenes. In practice though, a majority of battles veer closer to 1280x720 - and the absolute lowest figure we've seen is 1008x567. This worst case expectedly kicks in at peak GPU load, with all 10 characters on-screen in a deathmatch firing off their abilities, and also, momentarily just after respawning to a new spot.

Performance undocked:
And then there's the handheld mode. When playing Switch portably, it still runs its ARM Cortex-A57 CPU cluster at the same 1GHz as the docked configuration, meaning that game logic and netcode run identically. GPU frequencies tumble though, meaning that the DRS scaler now tops out at the portable screen's native 720p. However, this is the maximum value, and resolution suffers greatly in standard play. To maintain 60fps in portable mode, the hit to image quality is often significant, going down to around 672x378 - or 52.5 per cent on each axis. Sadly, this is where the trade-off for smooth playback starts to affect playability in another way. At 378p it can look rather like a compressed YouTube video, and for long-range aiming it starts to get in the way. In common with all versions, the player still has auto-aim to help with targeting, but the reality is you're left with a Vaseline-like smear to work with once all players fill the screen.
My personal thoughts:
I was kind of surprised that the port does not hit 1080p60 in TV mode, given that the Switch has a GPU that is like-for-like comparable to an 8800 GT/GTX with DX11 equivalent featureset, and that GPU runs the game 1080p60 on Ultra as demonstrated by F2F Tech. That being said, Hi-Rez created a custom Unreal Engine 3 port, forfeiting the existing UE3 Mobile framework that already runs on ARM SKU, plus the limited bandwidth likely played a part. Still, up to 900p 60, 720p60 typical is very good for TV play.

Undocked, 720p is good, but 378p does look rough. It helps is that the Switch only has a 6 inch screen, so its a little less noticeable. The artstyle also contributes to this. And even there still, the performance is 60 fps 98% of the time. For a game with such colorful visuals, Paladins Switch should have a permanent residence on every Switch. Too bad the game does not release in physical format though..
 
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JCK75

Member
I'm a big Overwatch fan and still spend way too much of my limited gaming time playing it.. but this made me give Paladins a go and I have to say, I love it..
The port is fantastic and I never notice the resolution drops TBH, though I've only played it in handheld.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
I thought that I saw here...

Well, it is a nice port. I'll get when it's cheaper.
Did a search and went back in the archive till DF released this article but no mention of the article being covered.
Also, the game will release as a F2P game later on Switch, as with all the other versions. The Founders Pack is just a package to give you all the stuff right at the beginning.

I'm a big Overwatch fan and still spend way too much of my limited gaming time playing it.. but this made me give Paladins a go and I have to say, I love it..
The port is fantastic and I never notice the resolution drops TBH, though I've only played it in handheld.
Dynamic scaling ensures you dont really see the difference, except when things are very hectic you will notice it, and its also noticeable on edges. :)
 

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
Did a search and went back in the archive till DF released this article but no mention of the article being covered.
Also, the game will release as a F2P game later on Switch, as with all the other versions. The Founders Pack is just a package to give you all the stuff right at the beginning.


Dynamic scaling ensures you dont really see the difference, except when things are very hectic you will notice it, and its also noticeable on edges. :)
Oh, nice. Gonna wait to download it :D
 

RaptorGTA

Member
I am absolutely addicted to this game. I really enjoyed Overwatch when it launched but haven't touched it since. I am very happy with my purchase and look forward to sink more time into this game.
 

wipeout364

Member
I played this game a while back on PC and XBox and superb would not have been the word I would have used to describe it, has it improved a lot?
 
I've been playing Paladins a lot recently on XB1. It doesnt have the visual polish of big budget Overwatch, but it is lots of fun, more action packed (less time spent getting to objectives) and has sexier female characters :D
 
This is an amazing achievement considering the hardware. Massive respect to the dev team. I don't have a Switch yet but as a developer, I appreciate their accomplishment. Good stuff.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
672x378 uhg....
Its not like that all the time. The OP details this even further, so i invite you to read it fully :)
I really want to pick up a switch, but stuff like this makes it hard. Will wait for the revision.
Why? That is the lowest resolution recorded, does not mean it is like that all the time. Remember, you also see that image on a 6 inch screen and with an artstyle that is really well at hiding the blur.

No need not to pick up a Switch based on that sole reason!
 

octiny

Banned
Why? That is the lowest resolution recorded, does not mean it is like that all the time. Remember, you also see that image on a 6 inch screen and with an artstyle that is really well at hiding the blur.

No need not to pick up a Switch based on that sole reason!

Its all personal preference, but that PPI on a 6 inch screen is absolutely terrible, hence their comparison to a low res YouTube video. Had a hard enough time playing certain Vita games dropping it's native screen resolution but dipping to 50% of it's native resolution is just a no no in my book. Nintendo exclusives look great & perform as they should, but I'm sure I'm not the only one waiting for the X2 chip revision so we can get proper ports (albeit downgraded settings). I'll pick one up come then! Hopefully next year.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Its all personal preference, but that PPI on a 6 inch screen is absolutely terrible, hence their comparison to a low res YouTube video. Had a hard enough time playing certain Vita games dropping it's native screen resolution but dipping to 50% of it's native resolution is just a no no in my book.
Again, that is the lowest resolution recorded and it does not mean it is that resolution all the time. I am not sure why so far you are ignoring this nuance.

I mean, feel free to not play the game (You can even try it out when it goes F2P) but lets not act like its 378p the entire time on a handheld.

Nintendo exclusives look great & perform as they should, but I'm sure I'm not the only one waiting for the X2 chip revision so we can get proper ports (albeit downgraded settings).
That seems to imply that this isnt a proper port. It sacrifies resolution for a 60 fps update that it maintains more often than most games. Somethings gotta give.

I take it by this statement that Doom Switch and the forthcoming Wolfenstein Switch are also no-shows for you?
 

octiny

Banned
Again, that is the lowest resolution recorded and it does not mean it is that resolution all the time. I am not sure why so far you are ignoring this nuance.

I mean, feel free to not play the game (You can even try it out when it goes F2P) but lets not act like its 378p the entire time on a handheld.


That seems to imply that this isnt a proper port. It sacrifies resolution for a 60 fps update that it maintains more often than most games. Somethings gotta give.

I take it by this statement that Doom Switch and the forthcoming Wolfenstein Switch are also no-shows for you?

And yet, it's still a resolution that's recorded. It doesn't matter if it's 5 percent of the time or not, it's the principle of it. Furthermore, I'm unsure why you're getting so defensive lol. Doom and any other game that has to sacrifice an enormous amount of downgrades from graphic settings, resolution & even framerate (doom 30fps) are not proper ports to me. They are ports that frame themselves as "hey! look what we did on the Switch" ....now come pay full price. There's a point where someone draws a line, and that would be mine. As I keep saying, I'll wait for the revision.

Edit: There's a reason why Resident Evil 7 is going streaming only. It's just not worth it for Capcom to sacrifice so much to arrive at an highly inferior port when they can just stream it. It's in Nintendo's best interest to come out with a revision, as they eventually will. I'm not hating on the Switch, as I would love to have portable versions of all these games but I'm not going to buy one when it has to sacrifice as much as it does. I just know it's capable of being so much more if given the right hardware (X2) 👍
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
And yet, it's still a resolution that's recorded. It doesn't matter if it's 5 percent of the time or not, it's the principle of it.
Yes, but if that is an argument for you to pass on the game because it has that resolution 5% of the time if we take your example, then i would say that is rather reaching.

Its like me not buying Wolfenstein The New Order on PS4 because it does not hold 60 fps for 5% of the time. That seems a little excessive, don't you think?

Furthermore, I'm unsure why you're getting so defensive lol. Doom and any other game that has to sacrifice an enormous amount of downgrades from graphic settings, resolution & even framerate (doom 30fps) are not proper ports to me.
From a visual point of view, Doom maintains its core visual feature set on Switch.

Also Paladins is graphically quite on par with the other versions and targets 60 fps. To me it feels like you pass up on a port when either of the 3 variables is not met. In which case you are passing up on many games because few games meet all these variables adequately.

In this case you pass up on a game that does 2 out of 3 right but portable resolution is 378p 5% of the time, and thus it is hard for you go for the game. Lets be honest, don't you think that is grasping for straws, even a little?

Obviously, you dont have to buy the game and the game isn't flawless, but to dismiss a game over that, it seems a bit much.

And obviously its not like a revision would automagically make this existing port perform or look better, if there already is a thing like a more power Switch revision underway.

Edit: There's a reason why Resident Evil 7 is going streaming only. It's just not worth it for Capcom to sacrifice so much to arrive at an highly inferior port when they can just stream it.
Eh, that's not why RE7 Switch Japan is streaming only. RE7 Switch Japan is a testbed for Switch online on the fly streaming and to see if latency is small enough to not have too much lag. Because RE7 is a rather slow paced game, any latency issues are less severe than with a streamed version of Paladins, for instance.

It's in Nintendo's best interest to come out with a revision, as they eventually will. I'm not hating on the Switch, as I would love to have portable versions of all these games but I'm not going to buy one when it has to sacrifice as much as it does. I just know it's capable of being so much more if given the right hardware (X2) 👍
I am sure Nintendo knows its hardware better than a GAF user. Tegra X2 is only a small improvement and also not made for the gaming market, but for AI/Automotive. Nvidia literally does not position that SoC as a gaming related one publically, or they would have already shipped a Shield TV with that hardware.*

*This is also why Tegra Xavier so far targets the same market. A proper revision for the Switch would make more sense to have this SoC, but you will likely lose the portable aspect of it since Xavier is a 20-30 watt device. That is more in the Wii U range of power consumption. There were rumors that Nintendo would go with a stationary version of the Switch (A console, that is), and in that hypothetical scenario, Xavier would fit well. Providing XBO levels of performance in just 30 watts is enticing. But Xavier is also hugely costly and includes all kinds of AI accelerators that go against The Nintendo Philosophy of today. This also holds true for Tegra X2, which also includes tons of stuff that Nintendo does not need.

Nintendo's Philosophy since the Wii has been to provide relative okay performance in a low power platform. Which is why the Wii U was an evolution of the Wii technically speaking. Which is why the Switch technically has a bog standard Tegra X1. It is cheap, it is available, and it provides decent power relative to the size of the machine. And, Tegra X1 has the same technical feature set as PS4/XBO - Hence why these ports are possible.
 
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octiny

Banned
From a visual point of view, Doom maintains its core visual feature set on Switch.

It doesn't, not even close. Every facet has been downgraded.

Also Paladins is graphically quite on par with the other versions and targets 60 fps

Again, no it's not. There's downgrades, albeit little, more specifically to anisotropic filtering, environmental textures & from the looks of it, ambient occlusion.

In this case you pass up on a game that does 2 out of 3 right but portable resolution is 378p 5% of the time, and thus it is hard for you go for the game. Lets be honest, don't you think that is grasping for straws, even a little?

No, not when the native screen resolution is 720P. The fact that they have to cut resolution in half to render 60fps at times is nausea inducing. It's good that it's F2P, as I wouldn't buy such a game had they charged for it if I theoretically had a Switch.

Obviously, you dont have to buy the game and the game isn't flawless, but to dismiss a game over that, it seems a bit much.

I'm not dismissing the game, I'm dismissing the port their forced to come out with due to insufficient hardware.

And obviously its not like a revision would automagically make this existing port perform or look better, if there already is a thing like a more power Switch revision underway.

Incorrect. The majority of Nintendo ports use dynamic resolution. Even without touching a thing, a boost mode would lock that resolution and framerate in place similar to the 1X & Pro. It's not rocket science to get it working.

Eh, that's not why RE7 Switch Japan is streaming only. RE7 Switch Japan is a testbed for Switch online on the fly streaming and to see if latency is small enough to not have too much lag. Because RE7 is a rather slow paced game, any latency issues are less severe than with a streamed version of Paladins, for instance.

Do you have a source saying that as a fact? Or just assumptions/rumors?

I am sure Nintendo knows its hardware better than a GAF user. Tegra X2 is only a small improvement and also not made for the gaming market, but for AI/Automotive. Nvidia literally does not position that SoC as a gaming related one publically, or they would have already shipped a Shield TV with that hardware.

Going by past history, it's clear they don't when it comes to 3rd parties. X2 would be a HUGE upgrade due to it's Pascal cores running much cooler with higher clocks. The X1 TDP is 15w, X2 TDP is 15w while also providing 2x CPU, 2X RAM, 2X the bandwidth,and up 1.9x GPU in performance boost alone. Even with the 400GF (downclocked CPU) X1 in the Switch, a downclocked X2 would scale even better due to the pascal architecture, pushing the performance difference further. Again, a boost mode is easy to implement & would be hugely beneficial.

Nintendo's Philosophy since the Wii has been to provide relative okay performance in a low power platform. Which is why the Wii U was an evolution of the Wii technically speaking. Which is why the Switch technically has a bog standard Tegra X1. It is cheap, it is available, and it provides decent power relative to the size of the machine. And, Tegra X1 has the same technical feature set as PS4/XBO - Hence why these ports are possible.

As does the X2, Pascal is an extension of Maxwell on better node with improvements all around as noted before while also introducing Denver 2 cores at 2X the CPU performance/bandwidth. The performance increase between each Nintendo generation has become smaller & smaller. Falling further & further behind. This also doesn't change the fact that a lot of users like myself won't buy it until a properly spec version comes out to run 3rd party games without having to cut off the head to do so. And as I said from the beginning, until the Switch revision comes out, no buy from me. We can go around in circles on this, the conclusion stays the same.
 
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AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
It's not F2P yet, it's $30.

The resolution is not a non-starter, but let's not celebrate the accomplishment.
 

octiny

Banned
It's not F2P yet, it's $30.

Ouch, you're right. After reading up on it, seems like their charging for early access to "work out bugs". Essentially forcing people to buy the "founders edition" (that want to play), while not releasing the free version. If I remember correctly, you had access to the free version from the beginning on all other platforms.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
It doesn't, not even close. Every facet has been downgraded.
It does. Pretty much all effects are there (Sans for cubemap reflections in undocked mode) (But i heard that got patched back in?), just reduced in complexity. A reduction in complexity does not equate to effects completely missing which is what is implied here. That is what i mean with core visual feature set: Everything is still there, just reduced in complexity.

Now, Call of Duty on Wii, that's what you would call a downgrade from a visual core set POV. And even that still retained all the level geometry from its PS360 versions.

Again, no it's not. There's downgrades, albeit little, more specifically to anisotropic filtering, environmental textures & from the looks of it, ambient occlusion.
That's not what i would put under the downgrade moniker. Do note that i said ''quite on par'' with the other versions.

No, not when the native screen resolution is 720P. The fact that they have to cut resolution in half to render 60fps at times is nausea inducing.
Again, its a 6 inch screen. The visual difference on that surface is less pronounced than on a 42 inch TV. You make it sound like them aiming for 60 fps instead of resolution is a bad thing. It usually is the other way around. Also, how is retaining that framerate nausea inducing?

I'm not dismissing the game, I'm dismissing the port their forced to come out with due to insufficient hardware.
Then i don't know what your expectations are with the current hardware. You didnt answer it, but Doom Switch and the forthcoming Wolfenstein Switch are also no-shows for you for similar reasons?

Incorrect. The majority of Nintendo ports use dynamic resolution. Even without touching a thing, a boost mode would lock that resolution and framerate in place similar to the 1X & Pro. It's not rocket science to get it working.
This isnt a Nintendo port, come on. And no, that totally depends on whether or not the game logic itself is catered towards dynamic scaling of resolutions beyond what is expected. So it may very well be that there will be an automatic boost, but what i am saying, is that this isnt a default situation to expect.

Do you have a source saying that as a fact? Or just assumptions/rumors?
I mean, given the experimental pricing, the whole idea by itself (streaming?) and it being Japan only, with its all encompassing internet highways, i figured this was a logical observation to make. That being said, multiple sites do report that this has to be seen more as an experiment than an actual port. Which is why i made the observation to begin with.

Going by past history, it's clear they don't when it comes to 3rd parties. X2 would be a HUGE upgrade due to it's Pascal cores running much cooler with higher clocks. The X1 TDP is 15w, X2 TDP is 15w while also providing 2x CPU, 2X RAM, 2X the bandwidth,and up 1.9x GPU in performance boost alone.
You seem to ignore that the X2 isnt made for the gaming market, and literally not Nvidia's focus with the device (Nor Nintendo's). Nintendo ever since the Wii has not been about cutting edge hardware, both in original form or even in revisions (The N3DS is still just an ARM11 based product, just with extra cores added in). If anything, Nintendo is very much on the conservative side of performance, which plays into their attention to deliver power-efficient products.

As does the X2, Pascal is an extension of Maxwell on better node with improvements all around as noted before while also introducing Denver 2 cores at 2X the CPU performance/bandwidth.
Denver 2 might very well introduce new compatibility issues, given that these cores are relatively untested in devices. Not that this matters though since Tegra X2 contains multiple things that you wouldn't need in a Nintendo device, so Nintendo would have had to make a custom version of that SoC, tailor made, to introduce a revision. The fact that Nintendo went with a bog standard Tegra X1, totally not customized, should give you a hint as to why a Tegra X2 revision is not that likely. That does not mean that Nintendo would never do it, just that Nintendo's angle is not like that.

The performance increase between each Nintendo generation has become smaller & smaller. Falling further & further behind.
This held true for the Wii, but it had such a massive install base that the console still got heavily downgraded ports from current-gen games regardless.
This held true for the Wii U, being a current-gen machine (the first even) but released in 2012 with only marginally better specs than PS360. Within a year the lowest common denominator was x86 based with DX11 equivalent GPU's. Both things the Wii U was not.
This is less true for the Switch. Sure, in terms of performance is roughly 1/3th of an XBO, but atleast it supports the same feature set as these consoles, due to Tegra X1's desktop-like GPU. That alone has enabled devs more easily port things over, plus that ARM ISA's are more common than the PowerPC ISA Wii U went with in 2012. Its a perfect merge of the mobile ecosystem (ARM cores) with PC like desktop support (Maxwell GPU cores).

Which is why a lot of indies are dropping the ball on Switch and support the thing. Its a great proving ground for them.

This also doesn't change the fact that a lot of users like myself won't buy it until a properly spec version comes out to run 3rd party games without having to cut off the head to do so.
Then you can wait a long time given the Gamecube was the last Nintendo console that ran 3rd party games equivalent to the other consoles. You could argue that Wii U had some solid multiplat titles do, but the comparisons were definitely more towards last-gen comparisons than current-gen ones. So again, i am not sure what expectations you have then regarding the current hardware (or even Nintendo's hardware in general).
 

octiny

Banned
It does. Pretty much all effects are there (Sans for cubemap reflections in undocked mode) (But i heard that got patched back in?), just reduced in complexity. A reduction in complexity does not equate to effects completely missing which is what is implied here. That is what i mean with core visual feature set: Everything is still there, just reduced in complexity.

"Just reduced in complexity"? I would say that's a pretty huge downgrade. "Hey guys, we got the engine running, but had to reduce every setting in the game to get it to run, oh and it's running at 65% of the Switches resolution most of the time and one last small thing.....we had to cut the framerate in half". You're grasping at the straws my dude.

That's not what i would put under the downgrade moniker. Do note that i said ''quite on par'' with the other versions.

Then clearly we have different opinions on downgrades.

Again, its a 6 inch screen. The visual difference on that surface is less pronounced than on a 42 inch TV. You make it sound like them aiming for 60 fps instead of resolution is a bad thing. It usually is the other way around. Also, how is retaining that framerate nausea inducing?

And again, the PPI when cut in half or even 3/4ths is terrible on a 6 inch screen. I'm unsure what you're not understanding. It's nausea inducing when it starts to become a blurry pixelated mess. I couldn't play Doom for that reason alone on my buddies Switch. Some gamers tend to have standards outside of frame rate, especially when paying a premium mark up of an old game when compared the X1/PS4/PC versions.

On another note, I'm sure if we didn't have high pixel density phones or 4K screens I could trick/train my eyes to play games like that lol.

Then i don't know what your expectations are with the current hardware. You didnt answer it, but Doom Switch and the forthcoming Wolfenstein Switch are also no-shows for you for similar reasons?

There are no expectations, just disappointment. It's showing its age so early in its life cycle. Hence the hold out on buying one. Any portable port of a game that has to cut it's resolution in half at times to maintain frame rate, while also downgrading an enormous amount of settings (let alone cutting the framerate in half) is dead to me.

This isnt a Nintendo port, come on. And no, that totally depends on whether or not the game logic itself is catered towards dynamic scaling of resolutions beyond what is expected. So it may very well be that there will be an automatic boost, but what i am saying, is that this isnt a default situation to expect.

It's a Nintendo port, a game ported to a Nintendo system. Did I say Nintendo exclusive? Lol no, but that's beside the fact. You keep falling back on "it's not guaranteed" as your defense which is pretty lame & lacks substance. I don't think you understand how dynamic resolution works, 99% of the games using a dynamic scaler is all based on FR, there is no limit on the max scene to scene resolution. If they made the highest dynamic resolution 720P with the engine for said system, it'll attempt to hit that target in every scene when given more power. There are no imaginary roadblocks, even MS confirmed this.


I mean, given the experimental pricing, the whole idea by itself (streaming?) and it being Japan only, with its all encompassing internet highways, i figured this was a logical observation to make. That being said, multiple sites do report that this has to be seen more as an experiment than an actual port. Which is why i made the observation to begin with.

Again, that's opinion. Nothing is based off an actual source. It's just one site regurgitating what another site said with no actual source. I'll go with my stance of they didn't make it because it wasn't worth the effort, which would explain why the Resident Evil 2 remake isn't coming either. Though, I bet that'll eventually be streaming as well at a later date.

You seem to ignore that the X2 isnt made for the gaming market, and literally not Nvidia's focus with the device (Nor Nintendo's). Nintendo ever since the Wii has not been about cutting edge hardware, both in original form or even in revisions (The N3DS is still just an ARM11 based product, just with extra cores added in). If anything, Nintendo is very much on the conservative side of performance, which plays into their attention to deliver power-efficient products.

X2 was and is foremost a gaming chip, but they have had no use for it. In fact they have a 15w version they could easily put into systems. This AI version you keep bringing up is the 80w "drive" edition made specifically for some cars, while the newer "drive" Xavior chip is 20-30w, more than likely putting the gaming edition around 7.5-15w depending on the clocks.

Denver 2 might very well introduce new compatibility issues, given that these cores are relatively untested in devices. Not that this matters though since Tegra X2 contains multiple things that you wouldn't need in a Nintendo device, so Nintendo would have had to make a custom version of that SoC, tailor made, to introduce a revision. The fact that Nintendo went with a bog standard Tegra X1, totally not customized, should give you a hint as to why a Tegra X2 revision is not that likely. That does not mean that Nintendo would never do it, just that Nintendo's angle is not like that.

I'll refer to my comment above.

Denver 2 still use A57 cores, compatibility is a non-issue. It's literally an X1 on a die shrink with Pascal tech (which is based off maxwell), to put it in layman terms. You should do a little research on the different editions of the X2 chip. Furthermore, Nintendo I'm sure originally went with the X1 as the finals specs had already been finalised, giving them no time to make the switch as the X2 was was relatively new to the market. Which leads to why a sizeable revision next year is no doubt in route especially with new consoles arriving sooner rather than later. That's when I'll buy it, heck, maybe they'll have Netflix by then too (I joke, I joke).

This held true for the Wii, but it had such a massive install base that the console still got heavily downgraded ports from current-gen games regardless. This held true for the Wii U, being a current-gen machine (the first even) but released in 2012 with only marginally better specs than PS360. Within a year the lowest common denominator was x86 based with DX11 equivalent GPU's. Both things the Wii U was not. This is less true for the Switch. Sure, in terms of performance is roughly 1/3th of an XBO, but atleast it supports the same feature set as these consoles, due to Tegra X1's desktop-like GPU. That alone has enabled devs more easily port things over, plus that ARM ISA's are more common than the PowerPC ISA Wii U went with in 2012. Its a perfect merge of the mobile ecosystem (ARM cores) with PC like desktop support (Maxwell GPU cores).

Which is why a lot of indies are dropping the ball on Switch and support the thing. Its a great proving ground for them. I am not sure what expectations you have then regarding the current hardware (or even Nintendo's hardware in general).

And they wonder why they've lost a lot of third party support/ports of major games. A lot of developers aren't going to waste their time developing a highly inferior version only to have it sell like shit.
My threshold to buying a Switch is simple. Come out with a revision that nails 720P ports down, as that's the resolution of said device you're trying to sell, and I'll buy it.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
"Just reduced in complexity"? I would say that's a pretty huge downgrade.
The core visual make up of that game, like Wolfenstein Switch, is maintained. That is what i am referring to

"Hey guys, we got the engine running, but had to reduce every setting in the game to get it to run, oh and it's running at 65% of the Switches resolution most of the time and one last small thing.....we had to cut the framerate in half".
A reduction isnt the same as a downgrade, despite the similar phrasing of the words. They also didnt had to reduce everything in Doom just to get it to run.

But we were talking about Paladins originally. ;)

Then clearly we have different opinions on downgrades.
Glass half empty/half full. :)

And again, the PPI when cut in half or even 3/4ths is terrible on a 6 inch screen. I'm unsure what you're not understanding. It's nausea inducing when it starts to become a blurry pixelated mess.
This is purely a subjective opinion. I am not going to deny that for people such as yourself it plays a part, but for others, it does not. I wouldn't slam a game for it since that is a subjective view, not an objective one.

I couldn't play Doom for that reason alone on my buddies Switch. Some gamers tend to have standards outside of frame rate, especially when paying a premium mark up of an old game when compared the X1/PS4/PC versions.
Your tolerance levels may differ, yes. But an old game? You do know that ID Tech 6 didnt had an ARM SKU at time of release, so obviously, a port is going to take time, especially when it is to a platform that (by the time of Doom's release) didn't exist yet and there was no way of knowing if Switch would be succesfull?

There are no expectations, just disappointment. It's showing its age so early in its life cycle. Hence the hold out on buying one. Any portable port of a game that has to cut it's resolution in half at times to maintain frame rate, while also downgrading an enormous amount of settings (let alone cutting the framerate in half) is dead to me.
So you are more of the glass half empty kind and forfeiting the achievements Doom Switch sets out (as does Paladins/Wolfenstein). Ofcourse, these games only work because Id Tech 6 is a scalable engine and the games themselves arent humongous in nature. Hence why even something like an old port of AC has yet to land on Switch, but did on Wii U.

It's a Nintendo port, a game ported to a Nintendo system. Did I say Nintendo exclusive? Lol no, but that's beside the fact.
Usually when people use that terminology, they refer to exclusives, not third party titles.

You keep falling back on "it's not guaranteed" as your defense which is pretty lame & lacks substance. I don't think you understand how dynamic resolution works, 99% of the games using a dynamic scaler is all based on FR, there is no limit on the max scene to scene resolution. If they made the highest dynamic resolution 720P with the engine, it'll attempt to hit that target in every scene when given more power. There are no imaginary roadblocks, even MS confirmed this.
I don't think you understood what i was saying here. And yes, i know how dynamic resolution scalers work.

Again, that's opinion. Nothing is based off an actual source.
It was an observation, which would explain why that version is what it is.

It's just one site regurgitating what another site said with no actual source. I'll go with my stance of they didn't make it because it wasn't worth the effort, which would explain why the Resident Evil 2 remake isn't coming either.
Or.. because it was a testbed. AFAIK its the first port that does so by way of streaming, combined with a rather weird approach to pricing. Everything about it screams testbed rather than lets just put something in it because we dont want to port the actual logic over. A streaming port of a game would make little sense for a hybrid like the Switch that you can take to places where there is less stellar internet connectivity.

X2 was and is foremost a gaming chip, but they have had no use for it.
Almost reads like a citation is needed.

In fact they have a 15w version they could easily put into systems. This AI version you keep bringing up is the 80w "drive" edition made specifically for some cars, while the newer "drive" Xavior chip is 20-30w, more than likely putting the gaming edition around 7.5-15w depending on the clocks.
The Jetson TX2, yes. Well, like i said, Nintendo is never in front of the curve with being on top of the line hardware.

Denver 2 still use A57 cores, compatibility is a non-issue. It's literally an X1 on a die shrink with Pascal tech (which is based off maxwell), to put it in layman terms. You should do a little research on the different editions of the X2 chip. Furthermore, Nintendo I'm sure originally went with the X1 as the finals specs had already been finalised, giving them no time to make the switch as the X2 was was relatively new to the market. Which leads to why a sizeable revision next year is no doubt in route especially with new consoles arriving sooner rather than later. That's when I'll buy it, heck, maybe they'll have Netflix by then too (I joke, I joke).
Very well, lets wait for it!

And they wonder why they've lost a lot of third part support or ports of major games. A lot of developers aren't going to waste their time developing a highly inferior version only to have it sell like shit.
Well, it worked for the Wii because it was a popular device. It didnt work for the Wii U, because it was not popular.

It is working for the Switch, because it is a popular device. And with the additional advantage of playing these portably, that seems enticing for a lot of consumers.
 

octiny

Banned
The core visual make up of that game, like Wolfenstein Switch, is maintained. That is what i am referring to

Bruh, Wolfenstein is even worse. They've even taken out more actual effects, instead of just downgrading them to the most minimal specced version of said effect.

You're reaching now. You know it, we know it.

If you're referring to the geometry, then awesome, congrats that it doesn't look like Minecraft lol.

A reduction isnt the same as a downgrade, despite the similar phrasing of the words. They also didnt had to reduce everything in Doom just to get it to run.

Nah, any settings that have been paired back is a downgrade. I admire your effort to say otherwise though.

Furthermore, they did have to reduce all affects, on top of cutting the framerate in half & resolution upwards of 45% and that's not even talking about the actual alpha effect resolution.

Usually when people use that terminology, they refer to exclusives, not third party titles.

Or, you just misunderstood. Considering in my first two posts I referred to Nintendo exclusives as well, Nintendo exclusives. Not Nintendo ports. See how this works?

This is purely a subjective opinion. I am not going to deny that for people such as yourself it plays a part, but for others, it does not. I wouldn't slam a game for it since that is a subjective view, not an objective one.

Not if we're talking about the actual PPI when cutting the resolution in half. It's terrible, and there's not counter argument for it. If you're talking about how it affects people as "nausea inducing" then sure, I'll give you that.

Your tolerance levels may differ, yes. But an old game? You do know that ID Tech 6 didnt had an ARM SKU at time of release, so obviously, a port is going to take time, especially when it is to a platform that (by the time of Doom's release) didn't exist yet and there was no way of knowing if Switch would be succesfull?

"Old game" as in it's been out for awhile now to the point it's really cheap to buy everywhere, except the Switch. You sidestepped the fact their charging full price for a highly inferior version of the game you can get for less than $15 now on other consoles. That's the point I was making.

It is working for the Switch, because it is a popular device. And with the additional advantage of playing these portably, that seems enticing for a lot of consumers.

Eh, I wouldn't go that far in regards to actual 3rd party support, they still have a long way to go in getting all the major AAA games coming out. Which goes hand in hand with
the hardware Nintendo chose which means, A) Developers aren't going to waste resources on the Switch to see if it could run as they're not confident in potential sales of said 3rd party game or B) They want to release it on the Switch, but Nintendo shot themselves in the foot with releasing a highly underpowered device

Okay. I think I get it now.

Redneckerz is like Nintendo’s thelastword.

I can see why you would say that, but clearly not as bad! Lol. I admire Redneckerz effort to find the good in the bad. TLW on the other hand just makes you want to bang your head against the wall.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Okay. I think I get it now.

Redneckerz is like Nintendo’s thelastword.
Hah! If that would be true i would not be able to admit fault, as ill do in my post to OCtiny.
I am actually rather platform agnostic, having devices (Both handheld and console) from either console manufacturers.

Bruh, Wolfenstein is even worse. They've even taken out more actual effects, instead of just downgrading them to the most minimal specced version of said effect.

You're reaching now. You know it, we know it.

If you're referring to the geometry, then awesome, congrats that it doesn't look like Minecraft lol.
I am literally having the same view as John here, so if thats reaching, then you have to tell that to John aswell. John said the same thing.

Nah, any settings that have been paired back is a downgrade. I admire your effort to say otherwise though.

Furthermore, they did have to reduce all affects, on top of cutting the framerate in half & resolution upwards of 45% and that's not even talking about the actual alpha effect resolution.
Reduced complexity. :p

Or, you just misunderstood. Considering in my first two posts I referred to Nintendo exclusives as well, Nintendo exclusives. Not Nintendo ports.
Alright, i agree. Apologies. This whole back and forth should have been better off for its own thread considering it isnt even Paladins that we are talking about. But that is on me, so there.

See how this works?
Unless i am reading your tone incorrectly, this is rather unnecessary.

Not if we're talking about the actual PPI when cutting the resolution in half. It's terrible, and there's not counter argument for it. If you're talking about how it affects people as "nausea inducing" then sure, I'll give you that.
Literally just read on a user not finding this problematic, so yes, i would say its subjective.

"Old game" as in it's been out for awhile now to the point it's really cheap to buy everywhere, except the Switch. You sidestepped the fact their charging full price for a highly inferior version of the game you can get for less than $15 now on other consoles. That's the point I was making.
Oh no, i dont sidestep it - It was full price.
My post was providing the reasoning to the arguments you are presenting now in the above.

Which goes hand in hand with the hardware Nintendo chose which means, A) Developers aren't going to waste resources on the Switch to see if it could run as they're not confident in potential sales of said 3rd party game or B) They want to release it on the Switch, but Nintendo shot themselves in the foot with releasing a highly underpowered device
As what? A console? Or as a handheld?

I can see why you would say that, but clearly not as bad! Lol. I admire Redneckerz effort to find the good in the bad. TLW on the other hand just makes you want to bang your head against the wall.
Over on ERA John is essentially suffering the same fate. These ports are just interesting from a tech perspective, and for a handheld it is quite impressive.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
My personal thoughts:
I was kind of surprised that the port does not hit 1080p60 in TV mode, given that the Switch has a GPU that is like-for-like comparable to an 8800 GT/GTX with DX11 equivalent featureset, and that GPU runs the game 1080p60 on Ultra as demonstrated by F2F Tech. That being said, Hi-Rez created a custom Unreal Engine 3 port, forfeiting the existing UE3 Mobile framework that already runs on ARM SKU, plus the limited bandwidth likely played a part. Still, up to 900p 60, 720p60 typical is very good for TV play.

Undocked, 720p is good, but 378p does look rough. It helps is that the Switch only has a 6 inch screen, so its a little less noticeable. The artstyle also contributes to this. And even there still, the performance is 60 fps 98% of the time. For a game with such colorful visuals, Paladins Switch should have a permanent residence on every Switch. Too bad the game does not release in physical format though..


https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/187/geforce-8800-gtx

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/3230/tegra-x1

The trusty old 8800GTX still has 4.5x the texturing performance of the TX1, and the Switch is further downclocked from that. Pixel shader rates are comparable, but I should think that texture rate becomes the bottleneck being so much different.

And then there's 86GB/s memory bandwidth dedicated solely to the 8800GTX, vs 20something shared between CPU and GPU on the TX1, so clearly not like for like comparable except on a superficial Gflops comparison.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/187/geforce-8800-gtx

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/3230/tegra-x1

The trusty old 8800GTX still has 4.5x the texturing performance of the TX1, and the Switch is further downclocked from that. Pixel shader rates are comparable, but I should think that texture rate becomes the bottleneck being so much different.

And then there's 86GB/s memory bandwidth dedicated solely to the 8800GTX, vs 20something shared between CPU and GPU on the TX1, so clearly not like for like comparable except on a superficial Gflops comparison.
I really should rephrase my stuff better, as i meant what you are saying now. My brain tries to come up with a fancy, unique word that not only is incorrect, the correct phrase is so much clearer.

On a superficial level, yes.
More indepth its more analogus, but not exact, to a 920mx/830m.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
X2 was and is foremost a gaming chip, but they have had no use for it. In fact they have a 15w version they could easily put into systems. This AI version you keep bringing up is the 80w "drive" edition made specifically for some cars, while the newer "drive" Xavior chip is 20-30w, more than likely putting the gaming edition around 7.5-15w depending on the clocks.
How is TX2 foremost a gaming chip? And what's a 'gaming edition' Xavier -- any references?

It doesn't, not even close. Every facet has been downgraded.
Going by past history, it's clear they don't when it comes to 3rd parties. X2 would be a HUGE upgrade due to it's Pascal cores running much cooler with higher clocks. The X1 TDP is 15w, X2 TDP is 15w while also providing 2x CPU, 2X RAM, 2X the bandwidth,and up 1.9x GPU in performance boost alone. Even with the 400GF (downclocked CPU) X1 in the Switch, a downclocked X2 would scale even better due to the pascal architecture, pushing the performance difference further. Again, a boost mode is easy to implement & would be hugely beneficial.
The SoC does not provide any RAM outside of caches and buffers -- those TDPs do not include any RAM. And were did you pull that 1.9x GPU performance from? Here are the TX1 and TX2 specs -- the latter is 1.5x the former in ALU specs. As per the Denver2 -- Redneckerz is absolutely right -- Denver2 has its specifics (binary-translation frontend paired with a VLIW native ISA) that make it far from an ideal candidate for game scenarios -- one has to make sure the hot paths have been pre-translated before using them in latency-critical scenarios (which are not uncommon in games).

Denver 2 still use A57 cores, compatibility is a non-issue. It's literally an X1 on a die shrink with Pascal tech (which is based off maxwell), to put it in layman terms. You should do a little research on the different editions of the X2 chip. Furthermore, Nintendo I'm sure originally went with the X1 as the finals specs had already been finalised, giving them no time to make the switch as the X2 was was relatively new to the market. Which leads to why a sizeable revision next year is no doubt in route especially with new consoles arriving sooner rather than later. That's when I'll buy it, heck, maybe they'll have Netflix by then too (I joke, I joke).
TX2 has two clusters, consisting of Denver2 and A57 cores, respectively. TX2 is not a die shrink of TX1 -- for starter TX1's bigLITTLE was not HMP-capable. Yes, there are A57 cores in there as well, but in contrast to the TX1 where nintendo could neglect the A53 cores (could be factory-disabled just as well) -- the entire cluster is smaller than a single A57, the Denver2 cluster in the TX2 is not something you'd relegate to 'dark silicon' easily -- that'd be tossing silicon area as large or larger as the A57 cluster -- not exactly a good value proposition.
 
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