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[Digital Foundry] PlayStation 5/ Xbox Series X New GPU Spec Leak Analysis: 9.2TF vs 12TF?

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
It certainly does. There's an idea that the day one adopters are the hard core gamers who would be willing to splash the big cash to buy their console of choice, but I still think they need to release the Lockhart at the same time to avoid Playstation gaining a foothold. It would be weird to release the weaker console second, kind of a reverse of the Pro/X situation this gen. I imagine they will use the monster specs of the Series X to drum up hype, and then slip in details of the lockhart later.
I think both ways have their arguments. Lockhart at the time felt like a weird crippling of the generation but if XSX truly does have 56 CU's its not going to be cheap at all. I doubt they are willing to take a huge hit on it. But who knows maybe they are.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
To be fair, that video is a lot better than I expected it to be.
The Oberon specs do seem very reasonable, although they are going to need a serious cooling system upgrade to handle it clocked that high. The Sparkman specs though... that looks like a very expensive piece of silicon. And it wouldn't be the first time that MS has totally disregarded price when pitching future tech, lets not forget them touting HoloLens at E3 despite its prohibitively expensive cost.
 

xool

Member
Ok.

I tried to track the source and the tests.

...

For now I couldn't any evidence these chips are even related with next-gen consoles.

They had the exact same codenames (Oberon etc) that people have been linking with PS5/Xbox2 for over a year ...
 

MadAnon

Member
So as usual no one addressing that all Devs are saying they are close in spec with most of them also saying ps5 having a slight advantage.

Doesn't fit with the 9 + to 12 narrative I guess.
Where were those devs when MS was making a console with 40% slower GPU than PS4?
 
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Kazza

Member
DF tends to not report unless they at least some sort of confirmation. So there has to be some credibility to this.

He did leave himself some wiggle room in the video, but there's no doubt that DFs credibility would be a little damaged if this all turns out to be way off. Doesn't seem worth it for the sake of a few clicks, so I'm inclined to believe there is something concrete behind all this (maybe even a little more than could be revealed in the video).
 
Maybe I’m just a Blind Sony Fanboy but it’s really hard for me to believe the PS5 is gonna be 3TF/16 CU weaker than the Series X.

If this is true, then the people predicting PS5 at 399 bucks are right, no way it should cost more than that. This leaked design is nowhere near as powerful as it should be IMO.

I personally believe that it will launch much closer to the Series X, maybe 0.5 to 1 TF behind, both will be 499 bucks or higher.

If this leak is true then I think a lot of PS5 early adopters are gonna be disappointed when the gen starts, especially anyone believing the 8k talk. If it’s basically just a 5700 in the PS5, I mean that’s a decent card but cmon.

I’ll have to give credit where it’s due, if all this is true it sounds like MS has really engineered a monster with Series X.
 
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Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
He did leave himself some wiggle room in the video, but there's no doubt that DFs credibility would be a little damaged if this all turns out to be way off. Doesn't seem worth it for the sake of a few clicks, so I'm inclined to believe there is something concrete behind all this (maybe even a little more than could be revealed in the video).
For sure. DF doesn't typically run with anything unless they believe at least some of it is true. When it comes to M$ we know they have some in's considering they revealed the X specs. I'm not sure they have ever done anything like that with Sony though. Least I can't remember anything.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Maybe I’m just a Blind Sony Fanboy but it’s really here for me to believe the PS5 is gonna be 3TF/16 CU weaker than the Series X.

If this is true than the people predicting PS5 at 399 bucks are right, no way it should cost more than that. That’s nowhere near as powerful as it should be IMO.

I personally believe that it will launch much closer to the Series X, maybe 0.5 to 1 TF behind, both will be 499 bucks or higher.

If this leak is true then I think a lot of people are gonna be disappointed when the gen starts, especially anyone believing the 8k talk. If it’s basically just a 5700 in the PS5, I mean that’s a decent card but cmon.
I really don't think its that hard to believe. Their strategy of being a good price vs performance worked extremely well for PS4. No need to drastically change it.
 

ManaByte

Rage Bait Youtuber
He did leave himself some wiggle room in the video, but there's no doubt that DFs credibility would be a little damaged if this all turns out to be way off. Doesn't seem worth it for the sake of a few clicks, so I'm inclined to believe there is something concrete behind all this (maybe even a little more than could be revealed in the video).

People seem to forget the Battlefield 4 fiasco where their PS4 captures were done wrong and it made the Xbox One version look better, because back then everyone was still on the Xbox train.
 

Kazza

Member
I think both ways have their arguments. Lockhart at the time felt like a weird crippling of the generation but if XSX truly does have 56 CU's its not going to be cheap at all. I doubt they are willing to take a huge hit on it. But who knows maybe they are.

It would be crazy if they decided to price match the PS5 with the Series X, but I really don't think that's likely, hence the need for Lockhart. As you said, it would be a huge hit, almost certainly too much.
 

Armorian

Banned
Months ago most people expected around 10-12TF of GCN like performance at most from next gen machines. 9.2TF RDNA PS5 delivers on that, it is that MS decided to create the most powerful console possible in 2020 (in th biggest case ever for a console) and this gonna cost them, Anaconda will be ~500$ minimum IMO.

Edit: It is interesting that leaks confirm 16 threads for Z2.
 
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Entroyp

Member
As usual. Only the narrative that you like better is credible lol. You guys sure seem worried although you keep claiming its bs. Yet feel the need to repeat the same thing in every thread 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️
Yea, it’s the same on both sides they keep repeating the same shit over and over when there’s no real evidence on either side being right, just like Leadbetter said there’s not enough context, both can be 9 TF or 12 TF.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
It would be crazy if they decided to price match the PS5 with the Series X, but I really don't think that's likely, hence the need for Lockhart. As you said, it would be a huge hit, almost certainly too much.
I don't think they can get on a stage and say $599 but $549 is doable. But there's no way its cheaper than $499.
 
The meltdowns are already in full swing. But just you wait...sony is just toying with MS..right guys? PS5 will be 14 tf RDNA5,,Zen 3 cpu,HBM,a SSD made by aliens light years away, in a console the size of the PS1 mini at 399 to boot. Pack it up,Phil

So does power mater guyss? Yay or ney?
 

JORMBO

Darkness no more
It sounds like Sony may be targeting price/performance balanced together while MS is targeting them serperately. I can see XSX being a bit more powerful but more costly, and the lower end XB falling under PS5. MS sounds like they really want to have the most powerful console out of the gate. I'm guessing Lockhart $299-$349, PS5 $399, XSX $499.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
So does power mater guyss? Yay or ney?

Not as much as price-point, software selection, sales and mindshare momentum. etc.

You get all that right, and you win, power is immaterial.

If Series X is $599 or more, and based on these specs thats how much its going to be, its not selling no matter how powerful it is.
 
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Richard said it was already too late for Sony to have another secret chip at this point.
Basically said its too late to change anything other than maybe ram and upclock,but the docs point out that PS5 gpu was already upclocked to get to 9.2 tf based on the CU count. Drastic late changes would result in a console launch delay and be very costly
 
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Not as much as price-point, software selection, sales and mindshare momentum. etc.

You get all that right, and you win, power is immaterial.

If Series X is $599 or more, and based on these specs thats how much its going to be, its not selling no matter how powerful it is.
I guess thats why MS has Lockhart then.

Nah,i strongly think XSX will be 499
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Basically said its too late to change anything other than maybe ram and upclock,but the docs point out that PS5 gpu was already upclocked to get to 9.2 tf based on the CU count. Drastic late changes would result in a console launch delay and be very costly
But what about a DGPU...
 

Armorian

Banned
In the realm of dynamic resolutions in games, CBR and TAA, all that power difference (30%) will probably not correspond with better graphics (just slighty sharper image at times or more stable performance). Unless every game hits with variable framerate option, with VRR Xbox will offer better experience.
 

LostDonkey

Member
The words "almost certainly the PS5 graphics core", "independently verified the source" and "reasons to doubt are thin on the ground", are a very strong leg to stand on.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
In the realm of dynamic resolutions in games, CBR and TAA, all that power difference (30%) will probably not correspond with better graphics (just slighty sharper image at times or more stable performance). Unless every game hits with variable framerate option, with VRR Xbox will offer better experience.
Im having flashbacks of 4.2 VS 6 TF being not a huge difference.
 

Armorian

Banned
Im having flashbacks of 4.2 VS 6 TF being not a huge difference.

Pro is crippled with same amount of memory as PS4 (higher resolution framebuffers needs way more than 1080p) and low memory BW. Without these bootlenecks differences would be way smaller than they are in some games.
 
Maybe I’m just a Blind Sony Fanboy but it’s really hard for me to believe the PS5 is gonna be 3TF/16 CU weaker than the Series X.

If this is true than the people predicting PS5 at 399 bucks are right, no way it should cost more than that. That’s nowhere near as powerful as it should be IMO.

I personally believe that it will launch much closer to the Series X, maybe 0.5 to 1 TF behind, both will be 499 bucks or higher.

If this leak is true then I think a lot of people are gonna be disappointed when the gen starts, especially anyone believing the 8k talk. If it’s basically just a 5700 in the PS5, I mean that’s a decent card but cmon.

I’ll have to give credit where it’s due, if all this is true it sounds like MS has really engineered a monster with Series X.

PS5 would not be using a straight-up 5700; there will be RDNA2 features implemented as custom solutions, similar with the MS consoles. There's also a chance that even if these latest leaks are on the money, they may still have certain details off. For example it's likely possible that the AMD RT and VRS features weren't a part of the test for the dump (but are still present on the chip), or Sony have designed their own custom RT/VRS silicon solution possibly integrated on the APU (which would match rumors that Sony's RT solution is superior, even if just slightly).

With all of that said, the latest rumors seem to be getting more credibility as the days go on, especially considering both the Twitter and Github data were deleted (but we have other rumors and data that could most likely be false still easily obtainable online). And I'm just remembering again some odd stuff that happened way earlier in the year, like Shawn Layden's departure from SIE (apparently over a power struggle with Jim Ryan). It just came so abruptly, something still feels funny about that.

And now I'm also recollecting the reports from late last year into the early parts of this year that were speculating PS5 would launch this year, but Sony changed that decision because PS4 momentum was (is) still so strong. Add to that how they completely skipped E3 this year, which isn't something Sony would usually do. I thought it was to make way for their annual fan event at the end of the year...did that event even happen? The last one I remember happening was in a December during Capcom Cup (had to switch back-and-forth between both streams). If it did, there must've been nothing too noteworthy because I can't recall any particular announcements or surprises.

With the very real possibility Sony's probably been aiming for $399 with PS5 (I think some people are forgetting just how MASSIVE a response they got from that $399 announcement at E3 2013; it and the 8GB GDDR5 were a one-two knockout punch) and a 9.2 TFLOP RDNA1 (with some RDNA2 features customized to the silicon) PS5 is very possible. Granted I'm a bit disappointed with both systems in that there's no persistent RAM setup (apparently); virtual RAM with the SSDs will be a very solid alternative but not as a good of one IMHO. Anyway, yeah...very real chance these are (more or less) the specs.

Now could Sony have a second chip out there with no data available? Probably, but the odds of that are less than 10%. They shipped the new v-design PS5 devkits around E3 IIRC; those PS5 chips in the Github data were tested up to at least July, which is post-E3. Is is possible those chips are in fact dumped/old designs and the only reason they're being tested so late is because AMD may want to (for example) re-spin them into general APUs aimed at the PC market? Also possible, but if they have a lot of customization from Sony's end on them, I don't know if Sony would allow that (if they're in a position to do so, that is).

For now though I think people should just make the best of where things likely are landing; if it was okay for PS5 to be slightly more powerful than XSEX in the earlier leaks and rumors, how does the inverse suddenly hurt Sony? Especially if they are looking for $399 to repeat performance of PS4's fast adoption rates? Now I'll admit there's a pinch of salt to all of this: how do we know if Sony was looking to build something with a BOM at-cost with MSRP? They could have been building PS5 with a $450-$500 BOM and $399 MSRP target (knowing they'll make back the money through games, subs, etc.). But that's all speculation at this point in time.

We'll know soon enough in little over a month's time what's what regarding PS5 (mostly), but I hope diehard PS fans don't act like diehard Xbox fans did back in 2012/2013 (because IMHO there's no reason to be disappointed a 9.2 TFLOP RDNA1/2 next-gen system knowing Sony's top devs will be making great results with it). Sony's never really "chased" to be the most powerful; the only system where they were outright more powerful than the competition in all areas was PS4, otherwise they have always been softer in certain regards where competitors had a better solution. But that didn't hurt PS1, PS2 or even PS3 (in the end), now did it?

I'm looking forward to what games Sony brings for next-gen, and MS as well for that matter. I want them both to deliver big-time on that front; they'll both do the best with their respective specs and we're not talking a massive gap in those specs anyway even with the latest (possible) specifications. The same would be true if the roles were reversed. There'll always be little shithead fanboys/fangirls who yap on and on like they're kids in a playground, console warrior'ing it up, but they can be ignored. The sensible in this hobby can do better than that, and should.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Pro is crippled with same amount of memory as PS4 (higher resolution framebuffers needs way more than 1080p) and low memory BW. Without these bootlenecks differences would be way smaller than they are in some games.

It has an extra gig of memory. Point is, 1.8 TF made a difference. a 30 percent difference will always make a difference.
 

Orta

Banned
I'll be honest, I don't know what the fuck he was banging on about.

Don't suppose he touched upon who would win in a fight between Tails the fox and Luigi?
 
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nowhat

Member
People said the same of XB1X.
And of PS4 having 8GB of GDDR5.

Look, all I'm saying is - how about we wank over the specs of both consoles, when we like truly, actually, have the specs? So far, everything is either very vague or conjecture.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
And of PS4 having 8GB of GDDR5.

Look, all I'm saying is - how about we wank over the specs of both consoles, when we like truly, actually, have the specs? So far, everything is either very vague or conjecture.
You're on the wrong forum.
 

Lone Wolf

Member
So as usual no one addressing that all Devs are saying they are close in spec with most of them also saying ps5 having a slight advantage.

Doesn't fit with the 9 + to 12 narrative I guess.
”All devs?” list all these devs please. I haven’t heard much from devs but maybe I missed it.
 

Shin

Banned
Lockhart $249/PS5 $399/XXX $499

MS having 2 consoles is starting to make sense.

Looks like MS is going come out of the gate hard.
To me that solution is the best.
Hardcore audience are willing to fork the money, casuals want it as cheap as possible.
Basically Lockhart is Xbox one x but for almost half the price of yet about the same in performance.
 

Armorian

Banned
It has an extra gig of memory. Point is, 1.8 TF made a difference. a 30 percent difference will always make a difference.

Of course, it's that this difference could be hard to spot with dynamic resolution in play and TAA. As I said, real raw power benefits will be seen in framerate unlocked games.
 

Journey

Banned
Are they really making comparison with absolute fucking nothing official yet??


Should we stop posting any comments and opinions until official spec's are announced? They didn't leak the stuff, what's the big deal about analyzing the leak in the same way that Orbis and Durango were during those days? Oh... Never mind, the difference was that Orbis showed more power, so it was carry on and post how PS4 is more powerful than Xbox One lol.


Read their disclaimer, what's the big deal?

Testing data from AMD recently leaked giving us some hint of the technical make-up of the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X. So what has been revealed, how accurate is the leak likely to be and how could the new Sony and Microsoft console possibly compare? The leak looks genuine, but take any analysis with just a pinch of salt. Regardless - here's what we think.
 
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Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Of course, it's that this difference could be hard to spot with dynamic resolution in play and TAA. As I said, real raw power benefits will be seen in framerate unlocked games.
We will have to agree to disagree. Dynamic Resolution still falls much farther and has a much lower high on the lower powered machines and I can out certainly tell. TF2 and Diablo 3 are examples of that for me where I play on both and its a night and day difference.

Granted I am much more sensitive to those things and have by mistake trained my brain to be able to see it right away.
 
Maybe I’m just a Blind Sony Fanboy but it’s really hard for me to believe the PS5 is gonna be 3TF/16 CU weaker than the Series X.

If this is true, then the people predicting PS5 at 399 bucks are right, no way it should cost more than that. This leaked design is nowhere near as powerful as it should be IMO.

I personally believe that it will launch much closer to the Series X, maybe 0.5 to 1 TF behind, both will be 499 bucks or higher.

If this leak is true then I think a lot of PS5 early adopters are gonna be disappointed when the gen starts, especially anyone believing the 8k talk. If it’s basically just a 5700 in the PS5, I mean that’s a decent card but cmon.

I’ll have to give credit where it’s due, if all this is true it sounds like MS has really engineered a monster with Series X.
I mean it would still be 6.25x more powerful than the PS4 and and 2.73x more powerful than the Pro just in GPU alone.

That's not a small jump, they may just be targeting a different spec than Microsoft. As Richard said moreso focusing on hitting that $399 mark while Microsoft would rather push out a much more powerful system at $499.
 
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