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[MilkyJoe]

Phil is basically a salesman. He'll say the right things to get you excited, but I don't think they have anything concrete as far as specs go and just put the message out there so people don't go with Neo. It's smart though because already people here are acting like Scorpio is going to be so superior based on a two minute marketing promo with no games or actual specs shown. "It's VR capable!" Oh really? What headset? "We don't know!" It's almost as bad as the Xbox One "5 billion transistors!" drivel they were pushing 3 years ago. I'm not saying Scorpio won't be all they say it will be, but I'm not buying into the marketing BS that MS is known for.

Oculus, most likely, considering they were on stage at their E3 conference and a Xbox branded controller is in the box with Rift.



And re the 6TF, I think the word 6TF has been said more than enough times for it to be the very minimum. Don't worry there will be another playstation along in 2020

 

[geordiemp]

Phil is basically a salesman. He'll say the right things to get you excited, but I don't think they have anything concrete as far as specs go and just put the message out there so people don't go with Neo. It's smart though because already people here are acting like Scorpio is going to be so superior based on a two minute marketing promo with no games or actual specs shown. "It's VR capable!" Oh really? What headset? "We don't know!" It's almost as bad as the Xbox One "5 billion transistors!" drivel they were pushing 3 years ago. I'm not saying Scorpio won't be all they say it will be, but I'm not buying into the marketing BS that MS is known for.

Oh yes but its not about scorpio, I know that Tv's in my house are 1080p and have refresh which is a multiple of 60 FPS.

So the most obvious and clear improvement is to give the TV that native image and frame rate, it will give you the most bang for your buck.

Even without Scorpio, I was shocked at the Neo reveal leak by Eurogamer, screams bottle neck issues to me.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

No. This is the exact post where he confirmed the current Neo that's leaked is $499:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=206446444&postcount=2376

Think I'll wait for confirmation. I can't believe specs and price fluctuate this much this late in the game.

I won't be spending £400+ on any Neo though. Assuming I go with a RX480 for my recently built PC, it would have cost me ~£650 with quality high end parts and is much higher spec than Neo as we know it right now.

 

[Daft Punk]

Exactly this.

Sony and MS are getting on cycle with AMD's process improvements with these.

You can't honestly think going from Xbone to Scorpio is just "extending the generation" do you? It's obvious MS is pushing Scorpio as a stealth launch of a new generation under the guise of being under the Xbone banner. Neo is the only console that seems to be made for extending the generation.

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

No. This is the exact post where he confirmed the current Neo that's leaked is $499:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=206446444&postcount=2376

I guess everything really depends on how much of a threat Sony see Scorpio as. If $499 is the low spec machine then option B has got to be around the $600 mark. It also depends how many of these units Sony actually want to sell as they have got the PS4 as an option for anyone who doesn't want to spend that kind of money so it doesn't need to sell anywhere as many units as PS4 does, it's just an option for people who want the very best experience regardless of cost.

The problem is how far do they go, they could put out the high end option but if devs aren't making full use of the power provided then what is the point. I'm sure they will be discussing with devs what is more realistic in terms of the extra work that will actually be put into games vs what is theoretically possible but would waste to many resources so won't be done. It might turn out that the cheaper option is more realistic for devs. Gives them enough power to lock their intended framerate and add a few more graphical touches that won't waste a huge amount of dev time and resources.

 

[NotSmartEnough]

Oculus, most likely, considering they were on stage at their E3 conference and a Xbox branded controller is in the box with Rift.

It'll be interesting to see if they go with the CV1, or whether Oculus will be releasing a new iteration in Scorpio's timeframe.

 

[geordiemp]

Think I'll wait for confirmation. I can't believe specs and price fluctuate this much this late in the game.

I won't be spending £400+ on any Neo though. Assuming I go with a RX480 for my recently built PC, it would have cost me ~£650 with quality high end parts and is much higher spec than Neo as we know it right now.

I dont have a gaming PC, but a zen CPU and a RX 480 in small box in my living room with controller is starting to become tempting in 2017 if Neo gets Jaguar.

Will still keep my ps4 as a Destiny machine and for exclusives and maybe some 3rd party games where I want to play online with controller- its becoming clearer to me now unless sony really up their game with Neo that 3rd party single player is probably safer with PC.

And no I am not buying 2 or 3 new ps4 over coming years to finally get a 60 FPS gaming machine, fuck that.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I guess everything really depends on how much of a threat Sony see Scorpio as. If $499 is the low spec machine then option B has got to be around the $600 mark. It also depends how many of these units Sony actually want to sell as they have got the PS4 as an option for anyone who doesn't want to spend that kind of money so it doesn't need to sell anywhere as many units as PS4 does, it's just an option for people who want the very best experience regardless of cost.

The problem is how far do they go, they could put out the high end option but if devs aren't making full use of the power provided then what is the point. I'm sure they will be discussing with devs what is more realistic in terms of the extra work that will actually be put into games vs what is theoretically possible but would waste to many resources so won't be done. It might turn out that the cheaper option is more realistic for devs. Gives them enough power to lock their intended framerate and add a few more graphical touches that won't waste a huge amount of dev time and resources.

What's all this "option B"

 

[Papacheeks]

Hearing people say PS5 in 2019/2020 are we forgetting Yoshida's comment from a while back where he told Lorn Lanning a big "if" we have a PS5?

Because if the NEO is successful sales wise, and their margin is off the charts for going with AMD's chip shrink, we could not see a PS5 but something closer to another iteration but would be called the new console.

Then 2.5 years later they refresh again when a chip,dye shrink happens for AMD.

Hope we just get a PS5, and we never see another chip refresh, hope it's a one time thing for VR/4k playback purposes.

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

What's all this "option B"

I thought Sony were mulling over two specs for the Neo, the higher end of which has the upgraded CPU but will add much more to the cost which Sony think will put it in an unacceptable pricing range.

 

[AmyS]

The way this thread is going with some of the replies, it reads almost as if new consoles are going to come out every 6 to 12 months, lol, which clearly isn't the case.

Spoiler

Remember the upgrade cycle of 3D graphics accelerators in the mid-to-late 90s? It literally WAS every 6 months!

 

[geordiemp]

I guess everything really depends on how much of a threat Sony see Scorpio as. If $499 is the low spec machine then option B has got to be around the $600 mark.

Thats not the competition, the threat is a $ 200 Rx480 and the Q4 upcoming Zen CPU in a box that maybe around the $ 600 mark this Xmas.

 

[thuway]

I guess everything really depends on how much of a threat Sony see Scorpio as. If $499 is the low spec machine then option B has got to be around the $600 mark. It also depends how many of these units Sony actually want to sell as they have got the PS4 as an option for anyone who doesn't want to spend that kind of money so it doesn't need to sell anywhere as many units as PS4 does, it's just an option for people who want the very best experience regardless of cost.

Sony isn't stupid and I'm sure they've done their internal polling to find the perfect price/performance ratio. I just hope they keep all options on the table because Neo at the moment appears to be a very weak step forward for a very steep asking price.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I thought Sony were mulling over two specs for the Neo, the higher end of which has the upgraded CPU but will add much more to the cost which Sony think will put it in an unacceptable pricing range.

Really? Development kits are out there and I was told last month QA kits are due during June.

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

Thats not the competition, the threat is a $ 200 Rx480 and the Q4 upcoming Zen CPU in a box that maybe around the $ 600 mark this Xmas.

It may well be and perhaps Steam Machines will finally take off but I prefer console gaming over PC gaming so I will just stick with it as my main source of gaming like I am sure many other people will too.

 

[Razgreez]

Your getting there, Take Horzon HD, runs at 30, 1080p Great image and Aa, AF....

Not much left to improve upon, except dat 30 FPS.

So we up specs and get 45 FPS, that will be choppy as hell, so game locks it to 30 and that extra power is wasted.

For Horizon HD, unless the game can run at 60 FPS consistently, the upgrade is useless. Or it can run on a 4K TV, again no way.

So again, what is the purpose of Neo for Horizon ? If you dont get to a certain power / speed level, power is wasted.

If Neo had a better CPU (Zen will be ~ 2 x Ps4 jaguar), then you can market Neo mode for Horizon = 60 FPS. Watch those shelves empty.

This is some completely illogical gibberish quite honestly

I will add that if the 499 price is true then I find it difficult envisioning any success for Neo. Far to large a gap between it and the PS4 for the potential level of performance

 

[mrklaw]

I try not to use ND as an example, as I think all Sony first party will use GPGPU. Only example of high profile 60 to 30 downgrade recently I could recall.

What worries me is Neo will become the Ps3 but with switched around strengths, a great GPU and Crap CPU that only first party can get working well with special code. Sound familiar ?

Its more directly like the PS3 than switched around. They just moved the SPEs to the GPU as general compute capacity.

Any teams that cut their teeth on PS3 using SPEs and multithreaded job systems will probably get a lot out of the PS4 and neo.

 

[family_guy]

Oculus, most likely, considering they were on stage at their E3 conference and a Xbox branded controller is in the box with Rift.



And re the 6TF, I think the word 6TF has been said more than enough times for it to be the very minimum. Don't worry there will be another playstation along in 2020

It's a target, and we won't know until it's actually unveiled. They might realize they aimed a little too high if they are trying to hit a certain price point and end up reducing the specs. At the end of the day thought it's still just a more powerful Xbox. If you're happy with that platform's software output then you'll be happy with Scorpio. However Playstation still overwhelmingly has the software support in its favor, both from a first and third party perspective. I've said it before, but to reiterate, people weren't overwhelmingly flocking to Xbox because it was more powerful than PS2.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Sony isn't stupid and I'm sure they've done their internal polling to find the perfect price/performance ratio. I just hope they keep all options on the table because Neo at the moment appears to be a very weak step forward for a very steep asking price.

I'm willing to bet that Neo will not cost more than $399. No way a mid-gen upgrade could/should cost more than that.

The only doubt I have right now is the CPU architecture: Jaguar or Zen "Lite"?

 

[Collateral22]

Thats not the competition, the threat is a $ 200 Rx480 and the Q4 upcoming Zen CPU in a box that maybe around the $ 600 mark this Xmas.

The average gamer who plays FIFA and CoD each year shouldn't really be concerned with a higher spec machine though. Everything will still work the same one is just a better spec for those who want more out of their games. I think there is enough of an audience to justify it.

 

[The God]

You can't honestly think going from Xbone to Scorpio is just "extending the generation" do you? It's obvious MS is pushing Scorpio as a stealth launch of a new generation under the guise of being under the Xbone banner. Neo is the only console that seems to be made for extending the generation.

How are they "stealth launching" a new generation when it won't even have its own exclusives?

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

How are they "stealth launching" a new generation when it won't even have its own exclusives?

It won't have its own exclusives "yet"....

 

[geordiemp]

The average gamer who plays FIFA and CoD each year shouldn't really be concerned with a higher spec machine though. Everything will still work the same one is just a better spec for those who want more out of their games. I think there is enough of an audience to justify it.

Oh I agree average joe does not care. For those who want more, the issue is Neo looks like it will not deliver what those more consumers are after.

I've said it before, but to reiterate, people weren't overwhelmingly flocking to Xbox because it was more powerful than PS2.

MS came out of nowhere and in 2 gens eventually had 20 million more consoles than Sony in USA at 360 vs ps3 end.....

 

[icespide]

You can't honestly think going from Xbone to Scorpio is just "extending the generation" do you? It's obvious MS is pushing Scorpio as a stealth launch of a new generation under the guise of being under the Xbone banner. Neo is the only console that seems to be made for extending the generation.

it's strange. in interviews Phil has taken effort to downplay the performance increase and focus on the 4k aspect. even to go so far as to imply it's not worth getting a scorpio for 1080p.

I wonder if this is actually the case or if he just wants to downplay it until scoprio is actually more real

 

[mrklaw]

The incremental model is weird. Take a look at the ipad - the lovely new ipad pro is super fast. Yet how many games or apps actually take advantage of it, and how many are designed to still work ok on the ipad 2/ipad mini?

If Neo comes out and its basically a PS4 with double the GPU performance thats nice, but you'll basically get PS4 games with more effects. Then assuming Neo2 comes out in another 3-4 years time. They'll want to continue the incremental model presumably - same OS to save money designing new ones, runs the same games BC. Probably drop the PS4 at that point so its neo 1 & 2 only. But still nobody will optimise for Neo2 like you would a classical new console - it'll just be neo games with a coat of paint.

So while I do think it makes sense to avoid huge 6-7 year gaps between consoles, you are effectively wasting a lot of the performance of the 'new' console by it being beholden to the one that came out 3 years earlier.

 

[DjRalford]

EDIT - Missed a quote out

You can't honestly think going from Xbone to Scorpio is just "extending the generation" do you? It's obvious MS is pushing Scorpio as a stealth launch of a new generation under the guise of being under the Xbone banner. Neo is the only console that seems to be made for extending the generation.

How are they "stealth launching" a new generation when it won't even have its own exclusives?

Didn't MS say they would support the original XBOX, then drop it like a hot potato?

The incremental model is weird. Take a look at the ipad - the lovely new ipad pro is super fast. Yet how many games or apps actually take advantage of it, and how many are designed to still work ok on the ipad 2/ipad mini?

If Neo comes out and its basically a PS4 with double the GPU performance thats nice, but you'll basically get PS4 games with more effects. Then assuming Neo2 comes out in another 3-4 years time. They'll want to continue the incremental model presumably - same OS to save money designing new ones, runs the same games BC. Probably drop the PS4 at that point so its neo 1 & 2 only. But still nobody will optimise for Neo2 like you would a classical new console - it'll just be scorpio games with a coat of paint.

So while I do think it makes sense to avoid huge 6-7 year gaps between consoles, you are effectively wasting a lot of the performance of the 'new' console by it being beholden to the one that came out 3 years earlier.

It also makes developers more lax i feel, before they would have to optimise to get increased performance from the middle to the end of a generation, now a lot won;t bother to squeeze all the power out as they know the next console will be out in a few years giving them a bigger overhead to work with.

 

[MilkyJoe]

It's a target, and we won't know until it's actually unveiled. They might realize they aimed a little too high if they are trying to hit a certain price point and end up reducing the specs. At the end of the day thought it's still just a more powerful Xbox. If you're happy with that platform's software output then you'll be happy with Scorpio. However Playstation still overwhelmingly has the software support in its favor, both from a first and third party perspective. I've said it before, but to reiterate, people weren't overwhelmingly flocking to Xbox because it was more powerful than PS2.

Well apart from FH2 I only have Gears remastered and mcc and the latter are gifts I don't really like. All of my favourite games have been cross platform so Scorpio will be the perfect console for me.

 

[NotSmartEnough]

it's strange. in interviews Phil has taken effort to downplay the performance increase and focus on the 4k aspect. even to go so far as to imply it's not worth getting a scorpio for 1080p.

I wonder if this is actually the case or if he just wants to downplay it until scoprio is actually more real

Well, he said it wasn't worth getting a Scorpio if you didn't have a UHD TV. A day or so later he changed tack slightly (after his PR guys gave him a slight course correction, no doubt!) and said that it was up to developers to use the extra power as they saw fit, and that 1080p display owners could benefit.

 

[J-Skee]

Hearing people say PS5 in 2019/2020 are we forgetting Yoshida's comment from a while back where he told Lorn Lanning a big "if" we have a PS5?

Because if the NEO is successful sales wise, and their margin is off the charts for going with AMD's chip shrink, we could not see a PS5 but something closer to another iteration but would be called the new console.

Then 2.5 years later they refresh again when a chip,dye shrink happens for AMD.

Hope we just get a PS5, and we never see another chip refresh, hope it's a one time thing for VR/4k playback purposes.

What is the PS5 after the Neo/Scorpio comes out though? It would have to be something those consoles can't achieve. What would be the breakthrough for a new generation?

 

[Glorified G]

The average gamer who plays FIFA and CoD each year shouldn't really be concerned with a higher spec machine though. Everything will still work the same one is just a better spec for those who want more out of their games. I think there is enough of an audience to justify it.

And try to tell that average gamer that FIFA & COD will now be available on two separate online stores with two separate ecosystems/friends list & user interfaces and will now need to add a mouse & KB in their living room to just to navigate the main OS.

People still don't understand how different PC & console gaming is to the average consumer.

 

[Yankee Ruin X]

it's strange. in interviews Phil has taken effort to downplay the performance increase and focus on the 4k aspect. even to go so far as to imply it's not worth getting a scorpio for 1080p.

I wonder if this is actually the case or if he just wants to downplay it until scoprio is actually more real

I think that was more of an attempt to downplay to the millions of people who have a 1080p tv who might be otherwise thinking oh I won't bother buying an XB1 because Scorpio is coming. By saying you won't see any benefit unless you have a 4K TV it makes the XB1 still relevant to people to buy now and not be worried about this new console coming out if they don't have a 4K tv.

 

[geordiemp]

I will add that if the 499 price is true then I find it difficult envisioning any success for Neo. Far to large a gap between it and the PS4 for the potential level of performance

Oh I agree, if its 499 with a weak Jaguar CPU then thats poor value for the gaming performance and I would move on to either PC or Scorpio and Sony fails.

Any console with jaguar in it should not be more than $ 399.

 

[icespide]

Well, he said it wasn't worth getting a Scorpio if you didn't have a UHD TV. A day or so later he changed tack slightly (after his PR guys gave him a slight course correction, no doubt!) and said that it was up to developers to use the extra power as they saw fit, and that 1080p display owners could benefit.

it's definitely confusing. I feel like they are trying to walk this tight-rope of teasing/hyping everyone for a more powerful console, while downplaying what the power is for so as to not alienate current customers since it's over a year and a half away.

not sure if its working

 

[thuway]

The incremental model is weird. Take a look at the ipad - the lovely new ipad pro is super fast. Yet how many games or apps actually take advantage of it, and how many are designed to still work ok on the ipad 2/ipad mini?

If Neo comes out and its basically a PS4 with double the GPU performance thats nice, but you'll basically get PS4 games with more effects. Then assuming Neo2 comes out in another 3-4 years time. They'll want to continue the incremental model presumably - same OS to save money designing new ones, runs the same games BC. Probably drop the PS4 at that point so its neo 1 & 2 only. But still nobody will optimise for Neo2 like you would a classical new console - it'll just be scorpio games with a coat of paint.

So while I do think it makes sense to avoid huge 6-7 year gaps between consoles, you are effectively wasting a lot of the performance of the 'new' console by it being beholden to the one that came out 3 years earlier.

IMO - this incremental configuration of the rumored $499 Jaguar/4.2 TF Neo is almost insulting compared to what the original PS4 offered in terms of value. Sony flirted with the idea of "PREMIUM" with the PS3 and that ended up with them in a very poor footing. To the suits up top this is all profit waiting to happen, but it could also result in a situation where a ton of good will could be lost. "Arrogant Sony..." memes are ironically still around.

 

[NotSmartEnough]

It also makes developers more lax i feel, before they would have to optimise to get increased performance from the middle to the end of a generation, now a lot won;t bother to squeeze all the power out as they know the next console will be out in a few years giving them a bigger overhead to work with.

Maybe. But there is a potential gain in that game engines will be refined from one generation to the next, rather than undergoing a complete reset between each generation, while they are reworked to use the next esoteric architecture.

 

[truth411]

You still have not grasped the concept on how these boxes are even going to work, have you.

Actually I think folks are mistaken in believing that MS and Sony have the same game plan, they don't. Sony's systems aren't going to be forward compatible in the sense of PS4 being able to play Ps5 games.

 

[AmyS]

I see NEO as a slim with the 4K gimmick and a bit more VR oomph (not much different than the slim Xbox). I see an iterative coming end of 2017. Especially now that Scorpio is more publicaly exposed.

I very much disagree.

NEO isn't a slim, it's a high-end PS4, as stated by Andrew House, and detailed by reports from Giantbomb, Kotaku and Eurogamer. It'll have 4K Blu-ray and 4K media support. Beyond that, the NEO GPU is meant to be more than twice as powerful along with a CPU that's 500 MHz faster (1.6 GHz ---> 2.1 GHz) plus more memory bandwidth. Not only for better performing VR, but normal PS4 games getting better framerates, minimum 1080p native res when run on a Neo. While not as powerful as Scorpio (barring major changes we don't fully know about), Neo is not a Slim, and significantly different than the Xbox One S which does not have truly increased performance, only HDR support for games and 4K Blu-ray/streaming.

I just don't see Sony having OG PS4, a slim PS4 Neo, plus another iterative console to match Scorpio, and then ~3 years later, the PS5. That would be insane IMHO.

 

[Collateral22]

And try to tell that average gamer that FIFA & COD will now be available on two separate online stores with two separate ecosystems/friends list & user interfaces and will now need to add a mouse & KB in their living room to just to navigate the main OS.

People still don't understand how different PC & console gaming is to the average consumer.

Where are you getting this from? The NEO will use the same store, friends list etc.

 

[@Wreck]

Where are you getting this from? The NEO will use the same store, friends list etc.

might be talking about MS i think

 

[The God]

It won't have its own exclusives "yet"....

Did Phil Spencer or anyone from Microsoft say that?

 

[geordiemp]

Did Phil Spencer or anyone from Microsoft say that?

No one left behind

, the theme of the reveal - repeated about 20 x lol. Everyone from MS said it in every interview I recall.

 

[NotSmartEnough]

I very much disagree.

NEO isn't a slim, it's a high-end PS4, as stated by Andrew House, and detailed by reports from Giantbomb, Kotaku and Eurogamer. It'll have 4K Blu-ray and 4K media support. Beyond that, the NEO GPU is meant to be more than twice as powerful along with a CPU that's 500 MHz faster (1.6 GHz ---> 2.1 GHz) plus more memory bandwidth. Not only for better performing VR, but normal PS4 games getting better framerates, minimum 1080p native res when run on a Neo. While not as powerful as Scorpio (barring major changes we don't fully know about), Neo is not a Slim, and significantly different than the Xbox One S which does not have truly increased performance, only HDR support for games and 4K Blu-ray/streaming.

I just don't see Sony having OG PS4, a slim PS4 Neo, plus another iterative console to match Scorpio, and then ~3 years later, the PS5. That would be insane IMHO.

I expect them to launch the Neo (specs as you've described) in September/October this year. Sony would then need to plan for PS5, but I think Scorpio will have the console hardware high ground to itself for a year or so before Sony release a next-gen console.

It may end up with the major hardware vendors (I'm including Nintendo in that!) all having offset hardware releases, rather than the big generational changes we've been used to.

 

[El-Pistolero]

You can't honestly think going from Xbone to Scorpio is just "extending the generation" do you? It's obvious MS is pushing Scorpio as a stealth launch of a new generation under the guise of being under the Xbone banner. Neo is the only console that seems to be made for extending the generation.

It is a ridiculous move, if you ask me. Launching a console that is 4 times more powerful than the previous one, 4 years later, to only serve as a resolution enhancing machine, instead of having all those TFs made full use of...is just dumb! Utterly dumb...A fu***** waste...

 

[Nestunt]

it's definitely confusing. I feel like they are trying to walk this tight-rope of teasing/hyping everyone for a more powerful console, while downplaying what the power is for so as to not alienate current customers since it's over a year and a half away.

not sure if its working

Because they are trying something that is not typical for the console market and not sure people are going to demand it the same way they do for phones. Even thought Sony and MS are desperate for that to be true.

 

[geordiemp]

It is a ridiculous move, if you ask me. Launching a console that is 4 times more powerful than the previous one, 4 years later, to only serve as a resolution enhancing machine, instead of having all those TFs made full use of...is just dumb! Utterly dumb...A fu***** waste...

If Scorpio has zen it will also be > 2 x the speed in CPU and bandwidth. So add in the GPU boost, there is a good base for making games look and RUN better, and maybe VR as well.

PC VR was never going to run on a Jaguar CPU. Ever.

 

[The God]

, the theme of the reveal - repeated about 20 x lol. Everyone from MS said it in every interview I recall.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying. Not sure where others are getting this "new generation" stuff from.

 

[bidguy]

IMO - this incremental configuration of the rumored $499 Jaguar/4.2 TF Neo is almost insulting compared to what the original PS4 offered in terms of value. Sony flirted with the idea of "PREMIUM" with the PS3 and that ended up with them in a very poor footing. To the suits up top this is all profit waiting to happen, but it could also result in a situation where a ton of good will could be lost. "Arrogant Sony..." memes are ironically still around.

where does this 4.2tf 499 come from ? 399 is what its probably gonna be i think

 

[Herp Derpington]

It's a target, and we won't know until it's actually unveiled. They might realize they aimed a little too high if they are trying to hit a certain price point and end up reducing the specs. At the end of the day thought it's still just a more powerful Xbox. If you're happy with that platform's software output then you'll be happy with Scorpio. However Playstation still overwhelmingly has the software support in its favor, both from a first and third party perspective. I've said it before, but to reiterate, people weren't overwhelmingly flocking to Xbox because it was more powerful than PS2.

It can be argued which 1st party output is better. Some like MS, some like Sony. I don't seem to recall one being "overwhelmingly" better. As for 3rd party they both have the same AAA games. Sony has the better indie content but you can see how much they cared about that at E3. Software is a wash unless you just have to own Japanese games.

As for the original Xbox well I mean it also came out a year later than the PS2 and was their first attempt at a system so I'm not sure what you're getting at. It also had a great library of excellent games and stood well on it's own even compared to the PS2.

I don't think it can be argued that is MS had stayed on the games point with equal hardware to the PS4 we might be singing a different tune. I doubt you'll see a spec reduction from MS. If anything I bet somethings get a slight bump. They want the power edge this time and they'll do what it takes to get it.

 

[Nestunt]

where does this 4.2tf 499 come from ? 399 is what its probably gonna be i think

399? Cmon. Even if that's the real value of the console, they are going to market it for a premium consumer, firstly to get that disposable income and secondly to not alienate the vast majority of 349 PS4 owners.

Count on a 449 to 599 tag with a big "4K!" stamped into it

 

[geordiemp]

where does this 4.2tf 499 come from ? 399 is what its probably gonna be i think

OsirisBlack saying the higher price and lower spec Neo options is what we might get - Sony profit taking.

Hence the backlash. If Neo is 399 but shitty Jaguar I can understand that and see that it would appeal to some, may as well ditch OG Ps4.

Neo at $ 499 with Jaguar is just Sony making 100 bucks and poor value.

Sony need to think what is the enthusiast level of performance on PSN for next 4 years.