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Digital Foundry - Tech Analysis: Final Fantasy XV Episode Duscae
- Thread starter Vashetti
- Start date
Two reasons
1) it shows incredible potential with some very impressive visuals on display
2) this demo was a key portion of the Type-0 package - it is being used to sell that game. People are selling it on eBay even. It's fair game.
It's too interesting not to cover and it will be covered again when finished. This provides an interesting comparison point for the final.
To be fair, there's a huge difference between a game like this, and say something like Ryse -- with incredibly good spatial and temporal AA -- in terms of how noticeable lowered resolution is.
Yes that's true, but as good as Ryse looks it's readily apparent that the game is not 1080p to my eyes immediately.
ArchedThunder
Banned
If you don't care about tech (early or completed) being analyzed then don't bother even entering these threads. Plenty of people enjoy these articles on incomplete games because it shows how the game stands at this point in time and gives a point of reference. They mention multiple times that this is an early, unfinished build in the article and that it will likely be much better when it releases.
I don't get why people get so defensive when DF does analysis articles on games that aren't out, they aren't making a final statement on the game.
I agree, but I think you'd agree that it's even more readily apparent (and significantly so) when much worse AA solutions are used, like here or in the 60 FPS FB3 games.
I don't want another gen of shitty IQ... I really don't like the way console graphics development favors shaders and effects as opposed to IQ. My experience with PC is that native resolution is the last thing to be dropped, it boggles my mind that it's not the case for console development.
WrenchNinja
Member
IV is a shitty port of an iOS port of a DS remake.
They make articles people want to read? How dare they!
ArchedThunder
Banned
Yep, this demo has a really poor AA solution that doesn't really smooth enough jaggies and makes the whole image look blurry. Really hope they swap it out for a better one before release.
Yeah totally agree. I just want my cake and to eat it too. =)
Please get this to 1080p somehow SE! Especially if we're not gonna see it on PC anytime soon. Also please with good AA and AF (figure out whatever the heck is wrong with the PS4!).
Is it sarcasm?
Triggerhappytel
Member
They only released four games last gen on Crystal Tools?! Holy shit, what an inefficient company they were.
LOL, this thread. I'm struggling to wonder if half of the posts are joke posts. It's almost as if some posters are so fucking ignorant that they have no idea that a lot can improve in a year. Aside from the horrendous IQ, the game looks amazing overall. It really looks almost as good as CGI in some screens (if you put jaggies and blurry ground aside). I hope Square Enix can get at least 4× AF in this game.
You mean no one told you that the XBox One has a secret GPU that allows it to do AF with no issues at all? /s
It's still an FF game on PC.
We don't expect retail level of polish but the frame-rate at least on the Xbone is surprisingly bad especially considering the resolution that the demo is running...after all SE themselves decided to give this demo to the public, they shouldn't be surprised if people are disappointed with 20-25fps w/ tearing.
Hopefully the retail version won't launch with such an embarrassing level of performance.
ArchedThunder
Banned
It was actually five, but one of them abandoned the engine with an update (FFXIV).
Welllllllllll one of them was an aborted MMO which got taken out back and shot.
MMO's aren't exactly fast to develop.
edit: beaten
Triggerhappytel
Member
I assumed XIV must have been one of them, but what was the other? I'm guessing the Lightning Trilogy and something else?
err you take any product mid dev and it'll have things missing. And generally DF giving and opinion is fine but DF used to give opinions on full products not so many betas and alpha builds. and its completely natural for people to overreact as a result
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
More important it's a proper AA than 1080p at all cost if they have to sacrifice something. Graphically to me seems notable but of course needs a lot of work to be finished.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Dragon Quest X
Naughty Dog is one developer under a publisher, Square Enix is a publisher with multiple teams under it. They are in no way comparable.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Such a shitty first post.
How is it disrespectful? It's a demo of an unfinished game, probably not due out for a year.
Also, can we ban the word 'disgusting' for a bit, it's used to an absurd degree on GAF lately.
OmegaDL50
Member
Still baffles me that people think this game has been in development for 9 years.
There HAD to be a point in time when the PS3 version code was scrapped to restructure to shift development to the PS4.
Just because it was announced many years ago doesn't mean active development started at the time of an announcement. There is such a thing is pre-planning stages.
In fact if we were consider the timing of Tabata assuming the directorial role and Nomura moving on from the project around 2011 or 2012 (just around the time the PS4 devkits were given out too by the way) I'd say that is when full speed dev truly began.
So for a demo with roughly 3 years worth of progress on an engine that isn't even in it's supposed final revision terms of development, this isn't too bad. Yes it's incomplete, it's not a finished build. So it's expected of the game to not look like a near final build.
Polishing and optimization are one the last things done prior to release. A baseline needs to be established before you perfect and iron out issues. We shall see what the end result is like in due time.
There HAD to be a point in time when the PS3 version code was scrapped to restructure to shift development to the PS4.
Just because it was announced many years ago doesn't mean active development started at the time of an announcement. There is such a thing is pre-planning stages.
In fact if we were consider the timing of Tabata assuming the directorial role and Nomura moving on from the project around 2011 or 2012 (just around the time the PS4 devkits were given out too by the way) I'd say that is when full speed dev truly began.
So for a demo with roughly 3 years worth of progress on an engine that isn't even in it's supposed final revision terms of development, this isn't too bad. Yes it's incomplete, it's not a finished build. So it's expected of the game to not look like a near final build.
Polishing and optimization are one the last things done prior to release. A baseline needs to be established before you perfect and iron out issues. We shall see what the end result is like in due time.
Dictator93
Member
What's the point of super awesome particles and great character art if it is a smudgey shimmery mess?
Poor dev priorities IMO.
Poor dev priorities IMO.
If we're on that benchmark include Deus Ex, Tomb Raider and all the other spinoff games like Nier, etc.
nelsonroyale
Member
Somewhat selective quoting from the article. It is full of praise with some understandably serious concerns.
Right now I feel this looks like a game engine running on medium. The engine seems very powerful, it could be handily the best looking open world game to date, but they seem to have tuned it down for the demo. Character models are there, lighting is there, shadowing where it exists is tight, but needs to be added back to some of the vegetation. AA is pretty poor and needs improved, IQ is too low and texture filtering is a bit wack. If they can work on this stuff, they game is going to look incredible.
If I compare this to Dragon Age, that looks like a cross-gen game running at highest settings on PS4, while this looks like a trully next gen game running on medium settings. They need to tune it up to high and beyond. I don't feel they are doing the engine justice at the current stage.
Dictator93: That is hyperbole. This is SE it is unsurprising that they focused first on optimising character modelling given the rough state of the project. I honestly think that when the game releases it will be far more optimised than what we are seeing here. That the characters and enemies already look totally awesome is fine. The summon looks incredible as well.
Right now I feel this looks like a game engine running on medium. The engine seems very powerful, it could be handily the best looking open world game to date, but they seem to have tuned it down for the demo. Character models are there, lighting is there, shadowing where it exists is tight, but needs to be added back to some of the vegetation. AA is pretty poor and needs improved, IQ is too low and texture filtering is a bit wack. If they can work on this stuff, they game is going to look incredible.
If I compare this to Dragon Age, that looks like a cross-gen game running at highest settings on PS4, while this looks like a trully next gen game running on medium settings. They need to tune it up to high and beyond. I don't feel they are doing the engine justice at the current stage.
Dictator93: That is hyperbole. This is SE it is unsurprising that they focused first on optimising character modelling given the rough state of the project. I honestly think that when the game releases it will be far more optimised than what we are seeing here. That the characters and enemies already look totally awesome is fine. The summon looks incredible as well.
ArchedThunder
Banned
You're right, the game wasn't in development for 9 years, the team members kept getting moved to different games. It didn't enter any significant development until they rebooted development and made the game FFXV.
I suspect they're simply targeting high and hoping to improve image quality by release. They've said that exactly. Whether they actually get there, however, is a different story.
Onimusha78
Member
Err mate I think they were being sarcastic, unless you were also being sarcastic..
Well, my impressions is japanese developers in general never give such importance to good AA or AF in a game. I noticed this thing more than a time. But I could wrong.
How is that relevant ?
Isn't it all about the money you spend on R & D to develop in house engines vs the money you make back with the games?
Another example is the Tekken Team.Pre-Tekken 7,every Tekken had an inhouse engine tailored and developed specifically for it.They only recently dropped that practice in favor of Unreal 4.
OT but I think he is right. The comparison between ND and SE not has sense at all.
ArchedThunder
Banned
It's relevant because Naughty Dog is a studio that works by itself and makes it's own tech specifically for its own games. Square Enix is a publisher with multiple development teams that they control and the point of Crystal Tools was to be their big Gen 7 engine, not just the FFXIII engine.
Dictator93
Member
I guess I am forgetting that this is unfinished code. Then again... a jump to 1080p and all that entails considering the current framerate would require their code being... almost 50% more efficient? It sounds like quite the task.
Yeah, beyond Kojipro, not a lot of japanese game devs seem to care about this kinda stuff. Which is odd considering their CGI work is always so great.
Surely they know that its IQ plays a big part in it looking so convincing?
I thought they would care mroe about IQ after Agni's. Perhaps not.
fixed
That makes me think of Blue Dragon which had incredible models for the time with horrible performances. I think Japanese devs, at least those ones, are more focused on making the character look suuuuuper good than anything else.
Also let's be honest, it seems japan is struggling at tech anyway, like they were last gen, while excelling at art. Bloodborne and FFXV are two fine examples of that.
Also let's be honest, it seems japan is struggling at tech anyway, like they were last gen, while excelling at art. Bloodborne and FFXV are two fine examples of that.
Just 13.
You're right, all technical information should be suppressed about this demo. Which Square-Enix not only felt should be released to the public, but charged customers for access to it. So let's not discuss its technical performance because...reasons.
I agree that the demo is basically an alpha but this is exactly what can and should happen when a company releases a demo of an anticipated game that is marketing itself partially on its technical merits.
Skux said:
Actually it's more like an alpha. I realise that nowadays most "demos" are purely hype building exercises for multiplayer games with some server testing thrown in but this game is a long way off.
StrongBlackVine said:
I know your only agenda is this thread is to defend, defend, defend consoles at any cost, so any attempt at discussion is pointless, but I can only laugh that you think the situations below are comparable:
1) 3rd party developer releases title funded and published by a 1st party developer, exclusive to a single console
2) 3rd party developer releases title developed and published in-house on 2 consoles running on x86-derived architecture
So yeah you're totally right, FFXV is in exactly the same situation as Bloodborne...
To be honest Kojipro too seems doesn't care that much more. At least on MGS: GZ, AF and AA on ps4 are far beyond to be acceptable for my taste.
Excellent. Let's hope they leave it there.
As for analysis sounds about what you'd expect given release timeframe. I'm expecting the final codebase to perform better to all platforms.
The DF conspiracy folks are going to love the strong wording around resolution and other elements in this though vs other articles where they are positioned as resulting in minimal differences. Oh well wouldn't be DF without the side dish of conspiracy/inconsistent complaints.
nelsonroyale
Member
I don't think they are struggling, it is that their ambitions are high. Look at the October footage for instance. That looks clearly better graphically than any open world game revealed so far, including Unity and W3. They've also said that they haven't even finished porting the engine fully. I think it will improve towards release. They rushed this demo out, that was eminently clear. It was primarily designed to show off the visuals either, but the game direction and the combat.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I thought it was just me or my controlle.
omnislayer
Member
The quality of the pc port suggests they care a lot actually.
Dictator93
Member
I think the AA is fine for a 60fps title, but you are right, the AF is poor. THat once again though... maybe a 60fps perogative overriding. Did PT have good AF? I think it had relatively competent AA if I remember correctly.
And yeah, the PC port is really awesome. I just hope they do not arbitarily lock the FPS to 60 like in GZ. The game @ 120hz is crazy smooth looking.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Mainline FF games always look amazing, I've no doubt XV will be the same. Hell, XIII is still one of the best looking games from last gen.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Of all things it seems like, to me at least, that the biggest thing they wanted to show off with this demo is that the game actually exists and they are dedicated to finishing it.
I do not agree. FFXIII had horrible textures, flat lighting, low poly environments and low poly bodies for the characters. But that isn't really relevant to this game.