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[hodgy100]

As much as I hope it improves, part of me whispers ..'how many games actually improve from alpha / beta / demo to full release'...

like every game? I question how many actual alpha / beta's yo have played? and im not talking about the bullshit marketing "betas"

 

[Falk]

As much as I hope it improves, part of me whispers ..'how many games actually improve from alpha / beta / demo to full release'...

FFXV aside, have you ever worked in QA?

Honest question.

You wouldn't be asking if there's a difference between alphas and retail releases.

edit: beaten.

 

[APZonerunner]

The best benchmark for people worried should be to look at whatever the change was from the AC blu ray demo of 13 to the final release and expect a similar (or slightly better as the tech is better defined this time) change.

 

[orochi91]

The more time passes, the more impressed I am that Ground Zeroes and Second Son released as polished, as early as they did.

For real, Sucker Punch did a fantastic job in hitting that launch window release.

The next Infamous game is gonna be huge.

 

[Munkybhai]

When I saw the newer footage, I wondered if there had been a downgrade or something. It was less impressive than before, but I wasn't sure if that was just from poor footage or some kind of bias on my part. This is disappointing.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Since people are too "fixated" on the whole IQ thingy, they should watch this video made by fellow GAF member Benzy. It shows the beauty of the dynamic day and night cycle in the game, running on the PS4.

Made a timelapse vid showing daytime and nighttime skies at various locations. The night sky is really awesome in this game, a galaxy of stars twinkling and moving in tandem with clouds lit by the moonlight.

https://youtu.be/ajYgXFDIhOA

 

[OmegaDL50]

When I saw the newer footage, I wondered if there had been a downgrade or something. It was less impressive than before, but I wasn't sure if that was just from poor footage or some kind of bias on my part. This is disappointing.

So what are you exactly expecting from a still in development pre-release that is incomplete?

It's simply unrealistic to expect the demo to have the polish that a gold master release candidate would have.

Digital Foundry even emphasizes it's incomplete, what more can already be said.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I honestly don't see what's the point of an analysis for this.

We know that it's an unfinished game and the director even said that it wasn't going to be up to par.

To show the current level of development? And considering the game is 12 to 18 months out and all they need are framerate, resolution and AF along with general gameplay balance fixes, i'd say they are in a very good position.

There have been recent games that ship on this level, let alone a year to a year and a half from launch trial teasers.

I'm also glad DF noticed the dynamic time of day through those timelapses. The closest i've seen that is as impressive is RDR. GTA is fine and all, but RDR really made me say "WOW"

 

[Kagari]

The best benchmark for people worried should be to look at whatever the change was from the AC blu ray demo of 13 to the final release and expect a similar (or slightly better as the tech is better defined this time) change.

The situation here is different. The XIII demo released what... 8 months ahead of the final game's release? While with XV we're looking at much longer.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

The frame rate on the ps4 is almost blight town level on ps3.

Lol...Did you even play the demo?

 

[benicillin]

So what they're saying is a very early playable demo of a game that isn't coming out for quite some time isn't totally polished? No shit.

 

[Dunkley]

Is it sarcasm?

It was a joke, yes.

I was just playing on the recent AF hyperbole, but sadly I see someone did it way better than me though later in this thread by calling out for an "Xbox AF issues we need answers" thread.

It would seem really stupid to me to call out an unfinished game on its' texture filtering for real.

 

[SunBroDave]

How many solid-60fps (or 30, really) open world games are there on consoles? FXAA's not great but it's only the texture filtering that looks bad.

I don't think there are any 60fps open world games on consoles. The problem here is that low resolution + FXAA leads to not just blurry textures at oblique angles, but blurry everything. That, coupled with performance issues with outputting the visuals as they currently are, shows that the devs at Square have one hell of a fight on their hands if they want to improve visuals while still keeping the game playable. We don't want a repeat of AC:U's regular drops to 20fps

 

[Inuhanyou]

^ The jak games were 60fps. MGS 5 is 60fps.....yeah that's all i know. I don't expect 60fps for open world.

It seems like a lot of comments

1. never played the demo

2. didn't read the article

3. didn't play the demo or read the article

4. Don't know what's going on to begin with.


Why are people bringing up UE4 in this thread when we've known since the beginning that 15 was running on luminous engine?

 

[SunBroDave]

Why are people bringing up UE4 in this thread when we've known since the beginning that 15 was running on luminous engine?

Because Square was also going to use Luminous for KH3, and work began on that title using that engine, but then they ended up switching to Unreal.

 

[APZonerunner]

The situation here is different. The XIII demo released what... 8 months ahead of the final game's release? While with XV we're looking at much longer.

It sure won't be 8 months, absolutely, but how much more than 12? There have to be bean counters praying for fiscal 15/16, surely?

Like I say, better, sure... Longer, sure... But longer enough for it to be dramatic, I'm not convinced.

 

[BriGuy]

I've played the demo and the graphics are the least of this game's problems. You won't be awake long enough to count pixels if the final game is as boring as episode Duscae.

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

Pretty much. On amazon.com the PS4 version of Type-0 is at #5 on the top 100 video game sales list for march, the highest-selling game so far this month. The XB1 version doesn't seem to even be on the list.

Seems weird to me that Square won't bother with PC releases even though Xbone sales of their games seem to be bombing hard relative to PS4 sales of the same game.

About the performance of the game, what's the target for the final game? 900p vs 720p?

 

[Deleted member 20920]

Because Square was also going to use Luminous for KH3, and work began on that title using that engine, but then they ended up switching to Unreal.

I think they said they chose UE4 because the Luminous people are now working along with the XV team to improve both game and engine. Didn't need to divert attention towards KH3. It was a mess when they tried making Crystal Engine to cater to many games all at the same time so I guess this might be one reason why they didn't want to risk KH3 with an incomplete engine agai, like they did with XIV 1.0.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Because Square was also going to use Luminous for KH3, and work began on that title using that engine, but then they ended up switching to Unreal.

This has mainly to do with the development team of KH 3. They are based in Osaka, I believe.

Luminous Engine team is basically with the FF XV dev team and are working with them to not only make the game, but also finish the engine.

 

[dark10x]

I don't think there are any 60fps open world games on consoles. The problem here is that low resolution + FXAA leads to not just blurry textures at oblique angles, but blurry everything. That, coupled with performance issues with outputting the visuals as they currently are, shows that the devs at Square have one hell of a fight on their hands if they want to improve visuals while still keeping the game playable. We don't want a repeat of AC:U's regular drops to 20fps

Jack and MGS 5, as noted above, but don't forget Driver San Francisco. That was a technical marvel. Burnout Paradise as well.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Jack and MGS 5, as noted above, but don't forget Driver San Francisco. That was a technical marvel. Burnout Paradise as well.

Just wondering if you guys plan to do a time lapse video for FFXV?

 

[low-G]

I agree with those saying people are too obsessed with image quality. Obviously it's important, but image quality is only a small factor in overall graphics fidelity. Quake 1 with absolutely perfect image quality is nothing.

I know some people are more obsessed with image quality, but a fuzzy looking game with extreme graphics quality will look like reality on a VHS tape or compressed TV broadcast, as opposed to a video game. Can't speak for FF15 demo as I haven't played it myself, though. Just talking IQ vs fidelity as this is what this discussion had devolved to.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Seems weird to me that Square won't bother with PC releases even though Xbone sales of their games seem to be bombing hard relative to PS4 sales of the same game.

About the performance of the game, what's the target for the final game? 900p vs 720p?

The reason we even have the PC versions of their games is because it existed on Xbox. That DirecctX code is easily more portable. You better hope support for Xbox is still on Square's minds after XV sales but I don't think that's possible

 

[Crimsonclaw111]

The reason we even have the PC versions of their games is because it existed on Xbox. That DirecctX code is easily more portable. You better hope support for Xbox is still on Square's minds after XV sales but I don't think that's possible

Honestly it's not a loss to me because I don't play their FF games and the ports were poo anyway.

It's just odd to me.

 

[OmegaDL50]

The reason we even have the PC versions of their games is because it existed on Xbox. That DirecctX code is easily more portable. You better hope support for Xbox is still on Square's minds after XV sales but I don't think that's possible

It's less so about Direct X and more so being x86. I mean it's far easier to do porting jobs when you using the same architecture as a base to work with.

Unless of course you were talking about the FFXIII PC ports from the 360, that is something different.

 

[SunBroDave]

Jack and MGS 5, as noted above, but don't forget Driver San Francisco. That was a technical marvel. Burnout Paradise as well.

MG5 is the only game mentioned that's this gen (and that game's not even out yet. let's wait and see how it actually performs. i'll be shocked if that game maintains a stable 60). 60 fps open world games on previous gen hardware aren't evidence that 60 fps open world games are or aren't going to be a thing on current gen hardware. Yes, these consoles are more powerful than the previous ones, but they're pushing a lot more to the display as well, so it's not as simple as just saying "they could do it last gen, so they should be able to do it this gen."

 

[OmegaDL50]

MG5 is the only game mentioned that's this gen (and that game's not even out yet. let's wait and see how it actually performs. i'll be shocked if that game maintains a stable 60). 60 fps games on previous gen hardware aren't evidence that 60 fps games are or aren't going to be a thing on current gen hardware. Yes, these consoles are more powerful than the previous ones, but they're pushing a lot more to the display as well, so it's not as simple as just saying "they could do it last gen, so they should be able to do it this gen."

It not about 60fps games in general but rather OPEN WORLD games that are 60fps. The list is very small.

 

[Faustek]

The reason we even have the PC versions of their games is because it existed on Xbox. That DirecctX code is easily more portable. You better hope support for Xbox is still on Square's minds after XV sales but I don't think that's possible

Well I'm worried about this myself tbh.

Then again if ditching XB meant more games(shorter dev cycle) I wouldn't be as upset. A bit but in the end I think my selfish side would win.

 

[neogaffer1]

It's less so about Direct X and more so being x86. I mean it's far easier to do porting jobs when you using the same architecture as a base to work with.

Unless of course you were talking about the FFXIII PC ports from the 360, that is something different.

DirectX is also a big deal. If you get a game running on the PS4 and the XB1 it'll be easier to port the XB1 version because the PS4 version is using a different API.

 

[SunBroDave]

DirectX is also a big deal. If you get a game running on the PS4 and the XB1 it'll be easier to port the XB1 version because the PS4 version is using a different API.

I don't think it is a big deal until a year or two down the line when we start seeing games that are actually developed with DX12, not that Microsoft is supposedly going to be making a big push with DX12 on X1.

 

[lord pie]

These two lines from the article really annoy me, because they demonstrate a lack of understanding of how texture sampling works:

Of course, it's clear that they didn't have cycles to spare at this point in time so eliminating AF may very well have been a choice they had to make.

Textures are sometimes reduced to a blurry mess thanks to extremely poor texture filtering. The quality is so poor that we feel they'd be better off forgoing mipmaps altogether and just deal with the shimmering that would arise instead.

Sure. Clearly they couldn't use more consistent levels of AF because it'd reduce performance even more, but being experts we'd rather they just don't use mipmapping at all. Never mind doing that would completely obliterate performance but at least it'll look sharper. *sigh*

 

[Faustek]

I don't think it is a big deal until a year or two down the line when we start seeing games that are actually developed with DX12, not that Microsoft is supposedly going to be making a big push with DX12 on X1.

Offtopic:
I wonder how long till we see DX12 as standard on pc even. I reckon that none of the big ones will really bother if it isn't easy to port from the XB api to DX12. 1-2 years seems.....Well like a dream. Engines and tools probably needs to be rewritten and that costs money. And we all know how much everyone loves the PC platform

Spoiler

 

[wanders]

So what are you exactly expecting from a still in development pre-release that is incomplete?

It's simply unrealistic to expect the demo to have the polish that a gold master release candidate would have.

Digital Foundry even emphasizes it's incomplete, what more can already be said.

I wouldn't blame his expectations. The game was announced 9 years ago.

 

[Kagari]

It sure won't be 8 months, absolutely, but how much more than 12? There have to be bean counters praying for fiscal 15/16, surely?

Like I say, better, sure... Longer, sure... But longer enough for it to be dramatic, I'm not convinced.

This is very much a Ground Zeroes -> MGS5 situation from what I understand.

 

[OmegaDL50]

I wouldn't blame his expectations. The game was announced 9 years ago.

And only in active development for 2 to 3 years, on an entirely new engine, and new architecture for entirely different consoles.

 

[benzy]

Since people are too "fixated" on the whole IQ thingy, they should watch this video made by fellow GAF member Benzy. It shows the beauty of the dynamic day and night cycle in the game, running on the PS4.

Yep, the lighting system in this game is stunning. Aren't framerate and IQ optimized late in development anyway? We still have over a year before the final game comes out, and what they've shown this early is still gorgeous. Hopefully we can get more vegetation with shadows like the October footage, and hit 1080p which they've outright stated is the target. The luminous rendering engine isn't even complete yet.

OP also omitted other important parts of the article.

Of course, as noted above, we were cautioned that these elements wouldn't be polished up for this early look at the game so it will be interesting to compare the final game to the offering seen here. We certainly hope that the team manages to achieve its target, though, as the rest of the visuals are truly remarkable to behold and represent an enormous jump in quality from anything Square-Enix has ever produced. The Luminous Studio engine has allowed the team to craft an absolutely gargantuan environment to explore with an incredible attention to detail bringing everything to life. Once you're past the initial lengthy loading screen the game never takes you out of the world for any reason - everything is seamless and dynamic.

The list of technical features on display here is also quite lengthy, checking off all of the tick boxes you'd expect in a next-generation engine and then some. The game makes full use of physically-based rendering with an excellent materials system alongside a robust global illumination solution enabling realistic lighting conditions and a dynamic day/night cycle. The time of day cycling is truly above and beyond anything we've seen before in real-time and allows for some incredibly lush vistas. This is enhanced further by the inclusion of a full cloud simulation and an artistically lovely use of high dynamic range lighting. Taken as a whole, the results stand as some of the most impressive we've seen in an open world experience. It's easy to look beyond the demo's limitations and appreciate what the team is attempting on a wider scale.

With the quality of the games visuals it's easy to forget that Final Fantasy 15 is Square-Enix's first attempt at a full open world game. The terrain unfolds before the player with a realistic sense of scale that helps sustain the illusion of an immense world. Foliage stretches out just far enough to eliminate the sense of empty terrain geometry and a smooth LOD system keeps annoying objects pop-in at bay. All of these elements are influenced by an adjustable wind simulation that allows the developers to attach variable gusts of wind to objects and events, resulting in grass, trees, and clothing all blowing around very realistically. Cloth simulation is particularly impressive here and used in abundance with the characters' clothing standing out as the most impressive example. Even the hair receives plenty of attention with its complex mesh bobbing around realistically on all four main characters as they run across the landscape.

 

[Afrikan]

Yep, the lighting system in this game is stunning. Aren't framerate and IQ optimized late in development anyway? We still have over a year before the final game comes out, and what they've shown this early is still gorgeous. Hopefully we can get more vegetation with shadows like the October footage, and hit 1080p which they've outright stated is the target. The luminous rendering engine isn't even complete yet.

OMG disgusting...just disgusting....i feel so disrespecteded!!!!




Smh...game looks Beautiful in its unfinished state.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

It's also at LEAST 12 months away, probably 16 months.

Which begs the question: Why release a demo this early?

Dumb move!

They just shot themselves in the foot.

 

[Kagari]

Which begs the question: Why release a demo this early?

Dumb move!

They just shot themselves in the foot.

To get people to buy Type-0?

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Whenever I look at Cidney I see Vanille.



Send help.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Which begs the question: Why release a demo this early?

Dumb move!

They just shot themselves in the foot.

To please the fans. The uproar, if there was no demo at launch, would have been an epic disaster.

Whenever I look at Cidney I see Vanille.



Send help.

 

[Vire]

To please the fans. The uproar, if there was no demo at launch, would have been an epic disaster.

That's pretty naive.

It was assuredly because they want people to buy Type 0 at launch.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

That's pretty naive.

It was assuredly because they want people to buy Type 0 at launch.

Ummm... I know they wanted to sell Type-0 hence the demo. But the demo was never confirmed for launch. Kagari heard that it was originally planned for a Summer release and I am sure that once word of it had gone out closer to launch, it would have been a PR disaster.

It wasn't confirmed for launch day until the very last ATR in London. So basically those who had pre-orderded Type-0 at that time under the assumption that they can play demo at launch would have to wait a long while before they could have played it, and you can imagine how someone would have reacted to this news considering SE was never clear on this whole matter until the last minute.

 

[onQ123]

Yep, the lighting system in this game is stunning. Aren't framerate and IQ optimized late in development anyway? We still have over a year before the final game comes out, and what they've shown this early is still gorgeous. Hopefully we can get more vegetation with shadows like the October footage, and hit 1080p which they've outright stated is the target. The luminous rendering engine isn't even complete yet.

OP also omitted other important parts of the article.

Dat world simulation!

 

[PaulLFC]

This and Type 0 HD are priced £54.99 ($81) digitally. £54.99 for a HD port of one PSP game and a seemingly poor-looking, unfinished demo.

It may be cheaper at retail but the fact they have the gall to demand that much digitally when looking at the package offered, has put me off to the extent that I'll be either renting it or buying used after a heavy price drop.

Disgusting pricing from SE.

 

[mintylurb]

Whenever I look at Cidney I see Vanille.

Cideny is vanille's ancestor.

 

[KupoNut]

The best benchmark for people worried should be to look at whatever the change was from the AC blu ray demo of 13 to the final release and expect a similar (or slightly better as the tech is better defined this time) change.

I don't recall that much changes/improvements from a graphical point of view, was the XIII demo really that bad technically?

 

[Kagari]

Ummm... I know they wanted to sell Type-0 hence the demo. But the demo was never confirmed for launch. Kagari heard that it was originally planned for a Summer release and I am sure that once word of it had gone out closer to launch, it would have been a PR disaster.

It wasn't confirmed for launch day until the very last ATR in London. So basically those who had pre-orderded Type-0 at that time under the assumption that they can play demo at launch would have to wait a long while before they could have played it, and you can imagine how someone would have reacted to this news considering SE was never clear on this whole matter until the last minute.

People would have gotten over it if SE had outfront said the demo would be available later. Publishers do this with early access betas all the time.

 

[wmlk]

People would have gotten over it if SE had outfront said the demo would be available later. Publishers do this with early access betas all the time.

But then the thing would come out as a $60 game for what people ultimately will view as a PSP remaster, and people would have to wait months for the demo. That wouldn't sell as much what we have now.