viveks86
Member
Damn! Pretty sure that would get ironed out by launch. If not, Gaf will explode with GIFs!
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Digital Foundry: the complete Xbox One architects interview
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
Damn! Pretty sure that would get ironed out by launch. If not, Gaf will explode with GIFs!
that's gameplay
I'd believe it. Look at the objects he's pushing through, I don't see why this can't be gameplay.
No. It's just part of a cut scene - not gameplay.
If you want to compare this to something on PS4 you could use Dark Sorcerer as competition seeing as they are both non interactive. As far as I know only Dark Sorcerer was actually demonstrated to be real time tho.
All I know is we are in for some amazing times on nov 15- december here at the gaf.
A lot of us have been banging the drums hard, and some will have to face the music.
PS4 launch with no Xbox one will be the usual hype, joy, kaughter, tears and pain. And the PC master race probably laughing at us.
Then the 22nd will roll around and the Multiplatform comparisons. That's when it'll get really messy.
Especially because they won't be a great measure of any kind of technical advantage - cross gen plus likely quick PC ports and possible gimping (surely not?) means that both sides will be able to argue incessantly for weeks. Unless at least one or two PS4 versions of Multiplatform titles are way better looking than Xbox, you'll get accusations of political gimping, Xbox fans asking 'where is the supposed advantage' and lots more.
We don't even get the PS4 in Europe until the 29th, so we get to sit back and watch the fireworks for a couple of weeks
killatopak
Member
Wonderful. Just great posts one after another. I completely agree with what you said.
Chobel
Member
Stop it man. I'm running out of praise words/gifs and I don't like repeating my comments.
killatopak
Member
I think this has already been discussed in another DF thread. I don't know what he means by uncomfortable but if he means uncomfortably good then I agree with him.
EDIT: I think they also said that the reason they chose ESRAM is because of price and is better to use in a single die than EDRAM.
We've had the uncomfortable GDDR5 but of course no explanation of what that means.
Perhaps it's too good.
This basically highlights the whole fiasco behind their memory architecture, they chose esram because they thought it was the only way they could get more memory. That didn't happen and now they're left with "but...GDDR5 is not balanced, consumes too much power"
SwiftDeath
Member
Yeah clearly from the leadbetter article
I never understood that
How can any technical person feel comfortable describing an computer architecture as uncomfortable?
And then say nothing else about WHY it's uncomfortable?
Does Balanced -> Comfortable?
And if so could someone please define in a technical sense what comfortable and uncomfortable architecture means?
Does the additional cloud power make the XB1's architecture more comfortable while the weaker GPU balances it all out?
I can only surmise XB1's sleep like a rock while PS4's are insomniac's
first Nintendo squeezed out the wiiU turd and preached how eco-friendly it was on power consumption. now Microsoft if doing the same. last I checked I didn't see gamers arguing over how many watts their system was using and I really doubt many care if it costs them $5-$10 more a year to run something much more powerful.
dragonelite
Member
I think he means power consumption or something like that.
If one thing this gen showed an unified pool is better then a split pool.
killatopak
Member
Make your choice
BOTH PLEASE!
What's the ratio of intelligent discussion to screaming and yelling? Will bodies start hitting the floor?
paradise_circus
Member
He argues with the costs to build the system. I guess he wants to say that you can have more for the same money with esram instead of gddr5.
killatopak
Member
Does GDDR5's power consumption have anything to do with how thermals work versus DDR3+ESRAM?
If they do, I could see them choosing the latter out of fear of another RROD.
killatopak
Member
I think this is only true regarding both consoles memory architecture. Undoubtedly, what is affected ,and is much more valuable in gaming, is the GPU die space. This actually lead to the inferior GPU specs that we see in Xbox One today.
cheezcake
Member
Those comments are cancer, one of the most recommended ones:
I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit...
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Yep, which is why i don´t understand why MS thought having 2 kind of separate ram is a good idea. The only reason that MS did this, as far as i can think off, is cost, but that comes on the account of easy development and weaker console. The sacrifice is too big imo.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
PS4 also fast though.
That's not a fair comparison, because one is actually running that speed in the wild, while the other is just a commercial. Luckily we actually do have a video of UI navigation by some gamers at the Eurogamer Expo. Link Here. While it can't boast snap functionality, it is still super smooth/fast.
viveks86
Member
LOL. Yeah someone needs a lesson on basic subtraction and multiplication. A part of me died when I read it! Whose quote is that?
We also have Shu at the beginning of the conference showing off the UI and features.
If Microsoft were truly concerned with power, they would also have a separate ARM custom chip for downloads etc, whilst the console was in standby mode.
As for GDDR5 power consumption:
http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...t/graphic-dram/detail?productId=7824&iaId=759
This is a 4Gbit chip, which is in "mass production" and is used in "games consoles" and runs at "1.5 V/1.5 V, 1.35 V/1.35 V"
Which is essentially the same as DDR3. The "uncomfortable GDDR5" is purely a FUD message.
As for GDDR5 power consumption:
http://www.samsung.com/global/busin...t/graphic-dram/detail?productId=7824&iaId=759
This is a 4Gbit chip, which is in "mass production" and is used in "games consoles" and runs at "1.5 V/1.5 V, 1.35 V/1.35 V"
Which is essentially the same as DDR3. The "uncomfortable GDDR5" is purely a FUD message.
mysteriousmage09
Member
killatopak
Member
Really? Talk about not only wrong in multiplication but subtraction too. Someone needs to go back to school.
Did the MS fellow say this? If the fellow doesn't even know resolution, I don't think he'll know much about any benefits in gaming. This speaks volumes about their vision.
viveks86
Member
Though I agree with your highlighted statement, voltage isn't enough to determine power consumption, right? Any idea what the wattage is?
xenorevlis
Member
I think it was just comments at the bottom of the article.
They probably just wrote it incorrectly, which would have been 180 pixel difference (vertically, anyway).
I'm assuming Ryse is 1600x900 (or "900p"), which is a difference of 633600 total pixels compared to 1080p.
B_Boss
Member
biased towards screaming and yelling. Unbalanced
oh yes. Will make the current situation look like gamboling through a field of daisys
Do we know if PS4's OS/Apps runs off the custom ARM chip like on the Wii U?
B_Boss
Member
:
In the weeks surrounding the launches of both machines, people will be getting banned left right and centre. It will be hilarious.
dragonelite
Member
Man there won't be enough popcorn for it all. Second half november should be pure gold.
killatopak
Member
I can't wait. It maybe more exciting than the console launch themselves.
Thanks. My fervent goal is that one day the people I am addressing these points to will respond as well
Nah, Fresh Face is a well meaning dude. I am sure if he has the time to respond to that... lengthy diatribe... he will do so
Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
OT - the gifs on this page have murdered my old tablet's browser.
Chobel
Member
It appears that Microsoft's goal in these interviews is to attempt to obfuscate any attempt at a comparison between the consoles by trying emphasize the differences (ignoring that for the most part the consoles are very similar and the PS4's rather large power advantage is quite straightforward).
The ESRAM is there purely to partially cover for the DDR3. The latency advantage is so inconsequential that its mention is a red herring.
At this point it's not really a question as to which is more powerful, but rather how much better PS4 games will look. Generally it would be unwise to talk tech when your hardware is weaker than your opponent, but perhaps the hope is that launch games will look similar enough to one another that Microsoft can sell the "our system is better balanced and so the graphics are practically the same as PS4" marketing and get average Joe casual gamer to believe that so that he just buys the Xbox One for his Call of Duty fix.
killatopak
Member
LOL!
It's extremely difficult to come back after those post of yours. Let's just say I hope I never have to be in that position. I don't like getting called out. At all.Thanks. My fervent goal is that one day the people I am addressing these points to will respond as well
Nah, Fresh Face is a well meaning dude. I am sure if he has the time to respond to that... lengthy diatribe... he will do so
I've always been afraid of getting randomly banned. I will continue to toe my own imaginary line until the dust clears.
Microsoft is certainly counting on multiplatform games looking similar, and they might be confident for many reasons other than the claimed "similarity" in power. That is where the disingenuity begins.
MS: GDDR5 is uncomfortable.
Me: Why?
MS: Because ESRAM is BALANCED (shocker).
Me: No. Why is GDDR5 uncomfortable?
MS: It just is.
Me: Why?
MS: Because... The Xbox One is balanced.
Me: You're not answering the question.
MS: What question?
Me: Why is GDDR5 uncomfortable?
MS: Because we designed the Xbox One for balance.
Me: So how is GDDR5 unbalanced?
MS: Because ESRAM is balanced.
Me: What the fuck is wrong with you?
MS: have you seen the keys to our truck?
I am to the point I hope MS crashes and burns with X1. The amount of FUD is overwhelming. Statements without merit. Statements without factual evidence. Its disgusting. While I hope they fail I do hope another contender enters the ring to keep Sony on their toes. As much as I think Sony has changed, more competition is good. It is becoming evident, however, that MS will try ANYTHING to blur the lines on the battlefield. Tsk tsk tsk.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
So I can buy an Xbox One and use dev tools?
dragonelite
Member
I just need to make sure i myself don't get banned before launch
Should be interesting to watch the Head to head Digital foundry threads.
Richard can expect some big bonus in november with all the comparison articles he and the staff has to write
That is what they have in the planning for 2014 one of the few reason im even getting an X1 there is just something about pushing things instead of getting an new GPU.
Anti-consumerism:
-The initial DRM debacle and their stance toward the ownership of games.
-Their continued insistence on hiding services behind a paywall, as well as their continued insistence on shoving ads on you.
-The susceptibility of Kinect to be used as part of a "NU Ad" marketing campaign aimed at gathering data about you and catering ads exclusively toward you.
-Arguably the pricepoint of the system itself, in comparison to the PS4.
As for misinformation:
-Their inability to respond to damaging, detailed leaks that basically laid out the system (warts and all) before its May unveiling.
-The initial debacle after the official reveal concerning DRM and subsequent "clarifications."
-"If you're focused on backwards compatibility you're truly backwards."
-The "power of the cloud" bullshit they fed us for months.
-The current employment of buzzfeed nonsense terminology like "balance" and usage of Digital Foundry as mouthpieces to mask the technological shortcomings of the XBO when in reality, they just got caught with their pants down.
Some of these issues have been alleviated, de-emphasized, or rectified, but the point is that MS has constantly and consistently chosen to obfuscate instead of clarify as a matter of policy. Taken together, you can gather where they stand on their respect for consumers.
As for your comment about consumers having choice because they can "opt in" if they so choose, I think that largely misses the point. A business transaction can still be unconscionable, even if there's the illusion of consumer choice.
Hydrargyrus
Member
GDDR5 is uncomfortable, however the GDDR3 in the Xbox 360 is perfectly fine
Nope, GDDR3 is uncomfortable too.
DDR3 is the only balanced one.
Look mum, I can speak microsoft!