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[GribbleGrunger]

Jesus, I feel as if I have to clarify something here because it WAS my fault entirely people have got the wrong end of the stick. I read through this thread and lots of people were saying the X1 version had POM ... This is the 'they' I am referring to. In the article they simply imply that both versions has POM:

. For perspective, the PC version runs here at 1080p with textures and shadows at very high, with extra tricks such as tessellation and parallax occlusion mapping (POM) enabled - plus FXAA and SSAA to treat any rough edges.

Eidos Montreal promises that the PS4 and Xbox One release retains all the bells and whistles of the PC at its best, and for the most part this is true.

At this point they should clarify that the PS4 version has POM because they specifically mention is but instead they go with a vague approach that makes it appear as if both versions has POM.

 

[allan-bh]

Amazing how there are people who don't accept the Xbox One version be better. Is just an analysis of one person, what's the big deal?

 

[benny_a]

Amazing how there are people who don't accept the Xbox One version be better. Is just an analysis of one person, what's the big deal?

The first sentence is a statement of fact. These versions have pro and cons to them, so of course there can be debate whether or not the verdict is correct. What is this nonsense?

Maybe you should have posted that in the Strider Face-Off thread where one version is the actual undisputed best.

 

[Ricky_R]

Jesus, I feel as if I have to clarify something here because it WAS my fault entirely people have got the wrong end of the stick. I read through this thread and lots of people were saying the X1 version had POM ... This is the 'they' I am referring to. In the article they simply imply that both versions has POM:



At this point they should clarify that the PS4 version has POM because they specifically mention is but instead they go with a vague approach that makes it appear as if both versions has POM.

He did say "for the most part this is true". It might be a cheap way to avoid saying that the Xbone lacks it, but that line gives them a pass IMO.

Is it misleading? of course, so shame on them.

 

[Melchiah]

The 32MB ESRAM isn't a big enough framebuffer for 1080p in intense games. It's part of the reason why a lot of Bone games aren't 1080p. The other part being the weaker GPU.

Sure it can do 1080p, but developers have to cut back on things if they want to achieve it at a playable framerate.

Thanks for the clarification. I remember seeing figures about how much space certain rendering methods demand from the framebuffer, but like I said, I have no links to the posts.

 

[Taker34]

Amazing how there are people who don't accept the Xbox One version be better. Is just an analysis of one person, what's the big deal?

It's supposed to be a neutral analysis, representing Digital Foundry's verdict. In case you didn't bother reading the thread, it looks like the PS4 version is superior in every aspect except for the AF/TF which doesn't seem to be indisputable, by the way.
That's the big deal.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

He did say "for the most part this is true". It might be a cheap way to avoid saying that the Xbone lacks it, but that line gives them a pass IMO.

Is it misleading? of course, so shame on them.

Then what's the point of an in depth analysis?

 

[allan-bh]

The first sentence is a statement of fact. These versions have pro and cons to them, so of course there can be debate whether or not the verdict is correct. What is this nonsense?

Maybe you should have posted that in the Strider Face-Off thread where one version is the actual undisputed best.

For DF reviewer Xbox One version is better than PS4, it's a opinion after an analysis. That's it.

Anyone can have different opinion, but some here are overreacting, as if DF had the deliberate intention to deceive people.

I see that some people have trouble accepting an opinion that the PS4 doesn't have the best version of a game

 

[StuBurns]

I see that some people have trouble accepting an opinion that the PS4 doesn't have the best version of a game

The opinion is suspect. If, as benny suggested, you can find someone saying DF were wrong about Strider, you'd have a valid point. Feel free to look.

 

[Ricky_R]

Then what's the point of an in depth analysis?

Indeed. Just pointing out that by saying that bit, he wasn't actually lying.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Indeed. Just pointing out that by saying that bit, he wasn't actually lying.

It's not 'lying' as such, no, but surely they knew certain tech was present on the PS4 version that wasn't present on the X1 version, after all, they've poured over this game far more than we have. It's the conclusion that I feel is a lie, the data (for what it is) tells the truth.

And showing still shots of texture pop in because of a supposed streaming problem is very suspicious. There is no logical reason why you would use a static medium to demonstrate a problem only video can show. People around the internet now honestly believe that those pics represent the quality of the graphics on the PS4 version.

 

[Hyunashi]

Anyone can have different opinion, but some here are overreacting, as if DF had the deliberate intention to deceive people.

Yes, yes anyone can have an opinion but they have made mistakes in the past, why would they stop now. I personally feel DF should be taken with a grain of salt, especially if Leadbetter is still writing for them. But at the end of the day, an analysis will draw critical observations from the public if something stated is suspect, as has been bought up multiple times.

There will always be a debate in these types of threads. Sometimes its hard to accept but it really isn't hard to move on. I for one, will not be buying this game to support SE, but reading other peoples views have been interesting. Above all, it shows DF should be taken with a grain of salt, that what they write should be taken as an opinion, not as a fact.

 

[allan-bh]

The opinion is suspect. If, as benny suggested, you can find someone saying DF were wrong about Strider, you'd have a valid point. Feel free to look.

Don't see why is suspect.

1080p x 900p (it's not a big deal in his opinion, and I agree) and a little more frame rate dip doesn't edge out visual advantage of Xbox One version with AF.

It's a valid opinion. I think what people should question more is why Thief PS4 has trilinear, that's ridiculous.

 

[Zen]

What about the Xbox one version completely missing POM, noticeably worse LOD on lighting effects, and having the worse framerate ?

So to be clear
PS4 version
+ Better resolution
+ Better framerate
+ Better LOD (lighting)
+ POM
- Trilinear filtering (which arguably makes the resolution a wash)

So how again is the Xbox version the better one?

It's not 'lying' as such, no, but surely they knew certain tech was present on the PS4 version that wasn't present on the X1 version, after all, they've poured over this game far more than we have. It's the conclusion that I feel is a lie, the data (for what it is) tells the truth.

And showing still shots of texture pop in because of a supposed streaming problem is very suspicious. There is no logical reason why you would use a static medium to demonstrate a problem only video can show. People around the internet now honestly believe that those pics represent the quality of the graphics on the PS4 version.

Exactly, their habits aren't that of a group looking to provide an even handed, unbiased, and comprehensive analysis. There's no way to reconcile so many of these peculiarities that only favor one side.

 

[Steroyd]

Don't see why is suspect.

1080p x 900p (it's not a big deal in his opinion, and I agree) and a little more frame rate dip doesn't edge out visual advantage of Xbox One version with AF.

It's a valid opinion. I think people should question more is why Thief PS4 has trilinear, that's ridiculous.

Alot of people did right at the start of this thread, they even question why it's happened in 2 games now, where the strider comparison was brushed off as a bug.

 

[Insane Metal]

33 pages!!! Dear Christ. D:

 

[Kamina]

If it was yesterday, can you be very specific about where this is cutscene is taking place? I can't find it, I could only find one that looks sort of similar but has no hanged man.

After

Spoiler

completing the 3rd Chapter

, when Garret leaves the Clocktower. Its a cutscene that turns into gameplay seamlessly.

 

[Nokterian]

People are still reading digital foundry? Last time i was reading here they all ready lied out flat and they did it again. To me more on GAF have more knowledge on this these days then them to be honest.

 

[StuBurns]

Don't see why is suspect.

1080p x 900p (it's not a big deal in his opinion, and I agree) and a little more frame rate dip doesn't edge out visual advantage of Xbox One version with AF.

It's a valid opinion. I think people should question more is why Thief PS4 has trilinear, that's ridiculous.

It's irrelevant, you suggested the suspicion surrounding the conclusion was because of the platform, I'm saying I don't believe that, because in the Strider face-off, people didn't have this reaction.

It's not that he favors the XBO version, it's that the criteria he uses to form a preference is unusually slanted. I'll give you an example, better resolution, better effects, and better performance, versus better AF is exactly the same as FFXIII, the 360 version falls short on all but the AF, but no one would ever consider the 360 version superior.

Obviously there are degrees to which the various factors are applicable here, but I'm not surprised his conclusion would ruffle feathers. Not that I agree there is any sort of bias personally, I don't agree with the conclusion, but I think it's probably his honest opinion.

While I think Leadbetter has some irrational favoritism towards Microsoft, I don't believe it's anything like some systemic bias all writers must align with.

 

[omonimo]

Don't see why is suspect.

1080p x 900p (it's not a big deal in his opinion, and I agree) and a little more frame rate dip doesn't edge out visual advantage of Xbox One version with AF.

It's a valid opinion. I think people should question more is why Thief PS4 has trilinear, that's ridiculous.

Ps4 has no Af because POM (it seems). Said 1080p over 900p is not a big deal it's ridicolous. 40 % of more pixels are definitely a big deal, especially with better fps. Arguing AF is better when the other has POM it's subjective but it seems he hasn't noticed too much this on the ps4. Ps3 lot of the times had better AF but 360 won everytime for 4 - 5 % of better fps & 10 % of more pixels. I think they to rethink again to what write efore give the edge for xbone just for the simple AF.

 

[Omotesando]

It's not 'lying' as such, no, but surely they knew certain tech was present on the PS4 version that wasn't present on the X1 version, after all, they've poured over this game far more than we have. It's the conclusion that I feel is a lie, the data (for what it is) tells the truth.

And showing still shots of texture pop in because of a supposed streaming problem is very suspicious. There is no logical reason why you would use a static medium to demonstrate a problem only video can show. People around the internet now honestly believe that those pics represent the quality of the graphics on the PS4 version.

Actually if the screenshot is correct, they did lie.

Otherwise next-gen console owners get the full package. Both platforms benefit from POM, a procedural rendering technique that creates the effect of bumps and divots to more complex texture-work

 

[Zen]

Any Xbox One owners have the game to confirm? We've seen no sign of POM in any media on the ONE version.

 

[lensoftruth]

33 pages!!! Dear Christ. D:

Gonna happen with every one of the rubbish big budgeters sadly.

 

[Papercuts]

It's not 'lying' as such, no, but surely they knew certain tech was present on the PS4 version that wasn't present on the X1 version, after all, they've poured over this game far more than we have. It's the conclusion that I feel is a lie, the data (for what it is) tells the truth.

And showing still shots of texture pop in because of a supposed streaming problem is very suspicious. There is no logical reason why you would use a static medium to demonstrate a problem only video can show. People around the internet now honestly believe that those pics represent the quality of the graphics on the PS4 version.

The picture is clearly labeled with a sentence detailing what is being shown, and mentions how it will pop in and look fine after. I agree a still isn't the best way to show this, but they have done this for many games.

It's not DF's fault nobody fuckin' reads, grabs images and posts them out of context.

 

[klaus]

Jesus, I feel as if I have to clarify something here because it WAS my fault entirely people have got the wrong end of the stick. I read through this thread and lots of people were saying the X1 version had POM ... This is the 'they' I am referring to. In the article they simply imply that both versions has POM:



At this point they should clarify that the PS4 version has POM because they specifically mention is but instead they go with a vague approach that makes it appear as if both versions has POM.

Well, are we sure the One version doesn't have POM at all?

Edit: Ignore this screenshot, the walls are real geometry.

That wall wasn't effected by the POM setting or the Tesselation setting, it's just hand-modelled geometry.

 

[benny_a]

Well, are we sure the One version doesn't have POM at all?

That can also be explained by tessellation. It doesn't necessarily have to be POM.

While I think Leadbetter has some irrational favoritism towards Microsoft, I don't believe it's anything like some systemic bias all writers must align with.

The conspiracy stuff should be stopped as soon as one thinks through the scenario once. Why would they try to edge out a win for the Xbone in this face-off on the basis of a cheaper effect which the PS4 has better hardware to handle and should in the worst case scenario result in a similar performance penalty for the PS4 even with a higher rendering resolution. (72 TMUs vs. 48 TMUs)

 

[codhand]

33 pages!!! Dear Christ. D:

This summarizes my thoughts as well. Thank you sir.

 

[klaus]

That can also be explained by tessellation. It doesn't necessarily have to be POM.

Yes that's true, but people seem to be awfully quick on accusing DF of lying.. Perhaps we can get more evidence?

 

[omonimo]

Well, are we sure the One version doesn't have POM at all?

How someone here, I suspect POM & AF couldn't work together. This is why rarely we see POM compared to the AF in a game, but I could wrong.

 

[Krappadizzle]

33 pages!!! Dear Christ. D:

Only 17 for me. 100pp is the best way to view GAF.

 

[benny_a]

Yes that's true, but people seem to be awfully quick on accusing DF of lying.. Perhaps we can get more evidence?

Yes. It's dumb.

How someone here, I suspect POM & AF couldn't work together. This is why rarely we see POM compared to the AF in a game, but I could wrong.

POM & AF works together in the PC version of the game.

 

[KORNdoggy]

Well, are we sure the One version doesn't have POM at all?

You would have to go to that area and check that it is indeed POM. Some or the more heavy stone walls are actual geometry.

 

[omonimo]

Another question, there is a clear picture where xbone version shows the better AF? I have just seen pictures with streaming texture issue on ps4. I can't find a single in the DF article.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I come back and it's over 30 PAGES!?

This thread has become a new level of ridiculous now. Just play the game on whatever system you have an move along. I'm pretty sure the experience is going to be the exact same on each one of the systems. I totally doubt that anyone is going to have a good time with how they both performed so at this point, just let it go.

 

[klaus]

You would have to go to that area and check that it is indeed POM. Some or the more heavy stone walls are actual geometry.

Would be nice if someone with the One version could check that, it might be geometry, but who knows?

Edit:

Another question, there is a clear picture where xbone version shows the better AF? I have just seen pictures with streaming texture issue on ps4. I can't find a single in the DF article.

 

[KORNdoggy]

Yes. It's dumb.


POM & AF works together in the PC version of the game.

You can force AF via the graphics card though. But as far as i'm aware, It's not a natively supported option within an engine. You have to pick one or the other.

 

[benny_a]

I come back and it's over 30 PAGES!?

This thread has become a new level of ridiculous now. Just play the game on whatever system you have an move along. I'm pretty sure the experience is going to be the exact same on each one of the systems. I totally doubt that anyone is going to have a good time with how they both performed so at this point, just let it go.

You post several times how people are free to fucking analyze the dumb game and now you come here and threadshit yourself because apparently it has reached the threshold where you're now annoyed by a thread you're not forced to click? Oh man.

You can force AF via the graphics card though. But as far as i'm aware, It's not a natively supported option. You have to pick one or the other.

Oh I didn't know that, I only saw both enabled in the PCGH benchmark.

 

[Stallion Free]

You can force AF via the graphics card though. But as far as i'm aware, It's not a natively supported option within an engine. You have to pick one or the other.

It is natively supported in the Cryengine.

 

[omonimo]

Yes. It's dumb.


POM & AF works together in the PC version of the game.

Maybe on console it's more expensive? I guess, I don't know. But I remember sometimes ago an article about POM who gives some problem on console (we are talking of ps360 anyway) with texture filter but I can't be more specific.

 

[YeSp]

If it was yesterday, can you be very specific about where this is cutscene is taking place? I can't find it, I could only find one that looks sort of similar but has no hanged man.

Someone at Eurogamer posted this in the DF thread. Take it for what is worth..

In regards to the texture streaming issue on the PS4

Stop this video at 12.39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnkZyONcsII&list=PL9MoLfABC7y6gq0raxVa1TGBnREZvMQKz

and this one at 17 seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEWIVrdclSs&list=PLs1-UdHIwbo7zoN0B-UH6TAHx7iFaZ6Gf

Both are playthroughs on PS4 and at the times stated are the exact scene that is shown above in the 4th comparision tool picture. note that in both examples given the texture on the red cloth has fully resolved and is not the blurry mess shown above??

 

[Impeccable]

I come back and it's over 30 PAGES!?

This thread has become a new level of ridiculous now. Just play the game on whatever system you have an move along. I'm pretty sure the experience is going to be the exact same on each one of the systems. I totally doubt that anyone is going to have a good time with how they both performed so at this point, just let it go.

The whole point of these comparison threads is for people who are interested in this kind of thing to discuss and pour over every detail.

Why people continually enter these threads with an intent to "set the record straight" on why people should play games continues to baffle me.

 

[StuBurns]

Someone at Eurogamer posted this in the DF thread.

This I don't understand, because you can't get to level three in the time it takes to install the game presumably, so I don't see how it can have not fully installed when the captures were made.

It would be one thing if DF just lied, but obviously they did experience it.

 

[KORNdoggy]

You post several times how people are free to fucking analyze the dumb game and now you come here and threadshit yourself because apparently it has reached the threshold where you're now annoyed by a thread you're not forced to click? Oh man.


Oh I didn't know that, I only saw both enabled in the PCGH benchmark.

It might be different now, things might have moved on, but older games certainly worked like that. I think it was two worlds 2 that used POM quite heavily and you couldn't enable both, you had to force it via your video card option if you wanted both at the same time. So i'm guessing eidos had a choice for PS4 and opted for parallax mapping (better choice imo, it looks awesome) and either xbone couldn't do it while retaining performance so they opted for AF instead?

 

[benny_a]

Someone at Eurogamer posted this in the DF thread.

Yeah, I was about to make a gif. Based on a different playthrough on YouTube.

So now we have 3 YouTube videos that are done on PS4 that don't show this effect vs. Digital Foundry.

Based on what I assume is the likelyhood of people putting in new harddisks, I think it's a fair assumption to say that something happened with the PS4 that DF took the images from.

Either they were installing something in the background (PlayGo) when they played or they put in a different harrdisk with different read speeds.

This I don't understand, because you can't get to level three in the time it takes to install the game presumably, so I don't see how it can have not fully installed when the captures were made.

It would be one thing if DF just lied, but obviously they did experience it.

I don't know how the install process works for Thief but it could be that it slows down to a slow grind over the course of playing it which genersates enough I/O activity to have this behavior show up when you rush through the game for footage.

 

[omonimo]

You can force AF via the graphics card though. But as far as i'm aware, It's not a natively supported option within an engine. You have to pick one or the other.

So what I'm saying it's not completely crazy. I remember something about POM who gives issue with AF ; if I'm not wrong the same Crytek said something about this & how has proudly fixed it with the cryengine, but I don't remember too much more about this thing.

 

[CouchMaster]

33 pages!!! Dear Christ. D:

This thread will pale in comparison when DF does Ground Zeros in 3 weeks and says there's no noticeable difference between PS4/Xbone and how you should be able to enjoy it regardless of any platform you play it on.

 

[KORNdoggy]

This I don't understand, because you can't get to level three in the time it takes to install the game presumably, so I don't see how it can have not fully installed when the captures were made.

It would be one thing if DF just lied, but obviously they did experience it.

More likely is that they simply started a fresh batch of captures at that point and because nothing had been cached, the texture steaming issue was visible, even though it was fully installed.
I only get texture streaming when i first start the game up. But i assume the more you play, the more texture data is cached and the less texture streaming issues you have.

If they started the game at chapter three, pressed record on their capture device and then initialised that opening city fly through of the guy hanging, i'd suspect there would be texture pop-in. If they'd played for 2 hours before that point, there wouldn't be any.

 

[Impeccable]

How often last generation was there a need for outside sources to correct "mistakes" they made? Is this something new now because as a community we're more "on it" or are they just making obvious mistakes?

 

[klaus]

This thread will pale in comparison when DF does Ground Zeros in 3 weeks and says there's no noticeable difference between PS4/Xbone and how should be able to enjoy it regardless of any platform you play it on.

Joke post?

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

Yeah, I was about to make a gif. Based on a different playthrough on YouTube.

So now we have 3 YouTube videos that are done on PS4 that don't show this effect vs. Digital Foundry.

Based on what I assume is the likelyhood of people putting in new harddisks, I think it's a fair assumption to say that something happened with the PS4 that DF took the images from.

Either they were installing something in the background (PlayGo) when they played or they put in a different harrdisk with different read speeds.


I don't know how the install process works for Thief but it could be that it slows down to a slow grind over the course of playing it which genersates enough I/O activity to have this behavior show up when you rush through the game for footage.

Or their ps4 hdd is almost full. Have to go to my pc to do my own analysis.