Fine then, $150 for the portable & $200 for the console. I guess that makes more sense. Though the only way they're really gonna lose money is if they make it a power house, depending on how much parts close to the Wii U's specs costs.
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Digitimes: Supply chain players gear up for new Nintendo console
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
QueenOfThorns
Member
Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper than it was in 2012 to make a PS4 level system? The way I see matching the PS4 presented as a fantasy is...really sad.
LegendofLex
Member
I don't think they can do this with gimmicks, either, but I also don't think the selling power of Wii came purely from a gimmick. It came from a vision.
People originally perceived the Wii Remote to be a full-blown alternative to dual-analog control - no differently than how the NES gamepad was not an Atari joystick - not just for new categories of games (Wii Sports, etc.) but also for old ones (Mario Galaxy, FPSs/Metroid Prime, Zelda).
What inevitably was produced with it obviously was very different, and of course the Wii was inevitably nothing like the NES in terms of the kinds of support it got both from first parties and third parties as well as how its entire library of games was perceived.
DS was the same way, although to a much less obvious degree since I think most people would agree that third party support on DS was much better on the whole than it was on Wii.
3DS doesn't really have a vision outside of 3D (which is a weak selling point), and Wii U doesn't really have any vision at all to the point that people don't even really believe the GamePad is important to the console. A console that has more of a cohesive vision - one that's reflected in the software direction and not just in the hardware and marketing - would probably avoid the pitfalls those two platforms had, provided it has a steady stream of high-quality releases and isn't priced way beyond what its vision justifies (the GamePad drove up the cost of Wii U but didn't make the software any more valuable; Wii was $50 more than GameCube was at launch but obviously sold much better since the software was hot hot hot, and its selling power came largely from the strong UX direction).
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
It should be. Whats funny is people talking about making third parties happy yet it being a little more powerful than Wii U. Fuck outta here thats not happening.
This is what I don't get. Unless Nintendo is really pushing for an insanely cheap platform, I don't see what they have to gain by not shooting for "power parity".
LegendofLex
Member
What do they gain from power parity? None of the third-party multiplatform software is going to do anything for their bottom line, as the last 20 years attests to pretty strongly. They'd gain more from lowering the barriers to development, which can be a by-product of a higher-powered console but doesn't necessarily justify the price to the consumer unless the resulting software is actually compelling enough to inspire a purchase.
Interceptor
Banned
Yep it´s totally a hybrid.
It´s not.
I tell you what it is: A big amiibo with NX in its base.
You heard it here first. 5 different designs. Gen 1. New gen every two years. 20 Million is not enough. 2 Wii U duck-taped together. Whole new OS. Return of Cartridges.
It'd probably be around $250-$300 (correct me if I'm wrong). And it wouldn't appeal to many people anyway as (as I've said a million times)...
- The casuals, who are gone anyway for mobile gaming, would see it as too expensive.
- The hardcore are already satisfied with their PS4 &/or XB1, & it's too late in the game to convince these gamers to buy a second system at that price (as the Wii U proved).
- Third parties know that there isn't too much of an audience for their games on Nintendo platforms, or enough to justify a port. Most of said audience already own a PS4 &/or an XB1 for that purpose.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I too think it's a semi-custom amd job. Perhaps an Opteron A1100-based design - an A57-based APU would be doing fine among competition's Jaguars. It's not like it has to catch up with Haswells/Broadwells.
The mindshare has been pretty much set in stone, the PS4 is the dominant console this generation. Hell, the XB1 is still clawing its way out of the hole it dug itself pre-launch (though Microsoft is doing a damn good job at correcting their past mistakes). If Nintendo tries to surpass the PS4 in power, Sony will just drop the price & maintain its grip on the market this generation. There is no scenario where Nintendo can come out with a powerful system & win with the NX.
QueenOfThorns
Member
I wasn't saying for them to make a PS4 clone and leave it at that. They obviously have to distinguish themselves. But releasing a console that at least matches the PS4 shouldn't be $300 by itself.
A slightly more powerful Wii U would be absolutely bullshit.
But it would be dirt cheap, a secondary console for those with a PS4 & an XB1, & easy to sell as a Nintendo Box.
Fourth Storm
Member
QueenOfThorns
Member
If I wanted something with the same power as a Wii U to be a secondary console to my PS4/Xbox 1 I'd...use my Wii U. They should just drop the price of the Wii U if the new console is just going to be Wii U 1.1.
balgajo
Member
A portable cheaper than 3ds but with better specs? Also casuals didn't buy gamecube when it had a banana price. If there isn't any real catchy gimmick they will give a fuck. I still think that the best option for Nintendo is to try a long term plan to have core gamers back. Even if they manage to sell about 20~40 millions with some profit it's still a good prospect imo.
I dont think a significantly more powerful cpu is out of the realm of possibility. Gpu is probably weaker though.
But it would take 2-3 console generations for that to work. And while it would be the best choice for the long-run, Iwata promised bigger profits for the near future.
LegendofLex
Member
I believe Sony sells one called PS Vita.
Which was an expensive system & used expensive proprietary memory cards.
balgajo
Member
I don't think that people who bought a wii u would want to pay again for a system that isn't much better. Unless that it's something revolutionary but given how they are rushing to launch a new system I don't believe so.
But there's DeNA....I think there're counting with this too.
Sony doesn't depend on the profit of their handheld. Nintendoes.
Fourth Storm
Member
Iwata says it will "change your video gaming life."
...I really love that quote. So bold! Haha
LegendofLex
Member
Sure, but if Nintendo matched Vita's specs with their next handheld (which is probably sufficient for an architecture that supports multiple form factors), it probably wouldn't debut at $200, and probably wouldn't use memory cards. We're talking about a system that would be produced now, not one that came out four years ago.
balgajo
Member
Better be true...XD
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Technically, there are chances. But those are slim - nintendo will likely stick with amd for the home end, and for the handheld they'd need to have some very good reasons to defect from the arm lineage. IOW, Img would really need to make an offer nintendo could not refuse ; )
You're wrong. Sony just proved that you can steel users from another platform. You speak as if thee platfrom is already out and only Nintendo enthusiast baught it, thats not how things work. The Wii U only has nintendo faithfulls because thats the kind of platform Nintendo created. they made a weak console with an odd concept, with ads made for kids and families. They had a shitty e3 leading up to the console's release, they only had their family friendly 1st party games at launch/launch window, they had so much bad press about its power even before its launch, and the 3rd party titles that were on it at launch didnt have that leap in graphics that people get hyped for at the launch of a new platform. I mean with out a bump in graphics you lose 70% of the hype that comes with a new console. Gamers casual and hardcore like to be wooed by new shiny graphics.
I meam, is their any wonder why gamers dont give a damn about Nintendo? Its not that Nintendo is just this disgusting brand that no gamer will ever touch, its just that with each platfrom they do things so wrong that that's the envirnment they create for themselves. But when you do right by gamers and 3rd parties, things tend to go better for you(as sony has shown, and microsoft has shown last gen).
When you can get the community and press hyped about your platform, nothing else matters. If Nintendo offers a better experience than Sony and Microsoft are capable of on their platform, while showing off mega tone titles gamers care about at their e3 like Zelda in 1080p 60fps, F-Zero, Metroid, Pokken Fighters, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, a true open world Mario and more core cross overs with third parties and then score some major 3rd party titles and bragging about how their console has these games with better graphics than what ps4/xbox one can give, gamers will be lining up.
When Nintendo does everything right and still fails, then I understand this whole "Nintendo shouldnt compete" montra, but until then I believevNintendo has the 1st parties titles gamers everywhere care about, and they have the potential to trully dominate.
Fourth Storm
Member
I am just wondering what a Nintendo/AMD SoC in 2016 might resemble. I would imagine FinFET would be a must if they are using a GCN GPU in a handheld. Their lowest-power SOC, Mullins, does not boast very favorable performance/watt from what I've read. We have also only seen the Cortex A57 cores on the server side, as you mentioned, and at 28nm.
If this was the beginning of the generation, you'd be right. But this isn't, it's the middle of the generation, where the PS4 & the XB1 are just about to hit their stride. The PS4 only took over due to a combination of a new console generation, Sony getting everything right, & Microsoft getting everything wrong (at the time). Nintendo has a huge uphill climb to do, & the PS4 being the dominant console has been set in stone from the start.
As for your launch list, I can guarantee you that Metroid will not be a launch title. It's already been confirmed that they aren't working on a big Metroid game at the moment (& if they were to start now, it wouldn't be ready until 2018). I highly doubt that F-Zero is coming anytime soon (sadly), Pokkén Tournament is probably gonna be a Spring 2016 release for the Wii U (just in time for EVO 2016), Smash & Mario Kart will likely be just remasters for now, & we have literally no idea what form the next 3D Mario will take (though I'm pretty sure it'll be a launch title).
Wow a little pessamistic are we? Those 1st party titles were just examples of games Nintendo could show off to get western gamers hyped for NX, there are a billion ways they could get us hyped, and we have no idea what could be there at launch, I was giving an example as to why you are wrong about people never choosing a Nintendo console just because its Nintendo, on that I'm saying thats not necessarily true, its how Nintendo handles things.
As for it being in the middle of the gen, how the hell do we know for sure that that will some how stop Nintendo from getting sales? The Ps4 will have at most 40-50 mil sales by then, and xbox one will be less, there will be plenty of people who have not switched over and theres jo reason a shiny even newer console with all the right games and nicer graphics wont get them. Also theres no rule that says you can only own one console, brah. That arguement isnt very strong at all. The right 1st party games and advertising can easily get people that already own another console to pick an NX up, and while they have it, might as well play that new 3rd party title on there instead sinse it is more powerful right?
I think going the weak "second console" route will damage their brand even further. Gamers wont like you, and they are the people you want to excite first.
EDIT: btw im not saying you might not be right, it could be that Nintendo wpuld flop, i just dont think we have enough proof to be so conclusive about it as you have been.
Father_Brain
Banned
Seriously, MS, with far more money to throw around than Nintendo does today, could only begin to get a foothold in the core market in the span of one generation. And that was before online networks like XBL and PSN took off; why do people think they can pull together a competitive core offering so quickly?
But then you have to consider.
- The online communities that both PSN & XBLA have already built up. Never underestimate the power of friends following friends into online communities.
- A point I've been trying to get across for days now, power alone won't get third parties back. Historically people buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games (with very few exceptions). Even if Nintendo releases a powerhouse, this stigma will linger for years. If there's no market for their games, third parties won't bother porting over their games regardless of how easy it would be.
TheLink117
Member
"mass production will start in May or June 2016, while the console's official launch may take place around July, the sources said."
Reading this makes me picture Iwata showing up at next years digital event and dropping the "its out next month" bomb. The rational part of me says they won't do that because they need to having a crazy marketing campaign to sell 20 million in a year, then I remember that they didn't seem to think marketing for the Wii U was needed either.
Reading this makes me picture Iwata showing up at next years digital event and dropping the "its out next month" bomb. The rational part of me says they won't do that because they need to having a crazy marketing campaign to sell 20 million in a year, then I remember that they didn't seem to think marketing for the Wii U was needed either.
Pancakes R Us
Member
Agreed on the majority of things said here.
There is a small subset of Nintendo crazies that want all of the cake on a Nintendo system...it just isn't going to happen. Please understand.
The third party titles you want on a Nintendo system...the audience isn't there. They own a Xbox or Playstation or a gaming PC with much better online gaming services. All of their friends own the same. They're pretty entrenched. If they jump ship, they jump ship from one of the above mentioned platforms to one of the other two above mentioned platforms. They don't jump ship to Wii U. A few of them may own a Wii U to experience Nintendo first party product. But that's it.
It would be a waste of time, money and effort for both Nintendo and third parties to try and get all of these big third party titles on a Nintendo home console. They're just not going to make their money back. It is very unlikely that a Nintendo home console is going to get hold of that audience, so they need to do something else. What do they need to do? I can't say for sure, but as a personal request I would ask that they treat the core Nintendo fans, that are holding the Wii U afloat, well. Don't do everything in your power to lose those, because you'll have very little left after they jump ship. A lot of them are people in their 20s and above. Stop treating them like kids. Put some voice chat in your games, make your online features better. Stop making such a convoluted system. Give people a choice.
Not in the middle of the generation. It would be a waste of money because they won't attract third parties, it'll be too far on the expensive side, & everyone who would want a powerful system already owns one.
If Nintendo's willing to take a massive loss in the short-term to ensure the return of third parties after 2 or 3 console generations, then sure, make a power-house. But if Iwata wants to keep his promise for high profits in the near future, a dirt-cheap Nintendo Box that's slightly above the Wii U that shares most of its software library with the portable is their best bet.
Entryhazard
Banned
Because Nintendo already has the developers and the IPs
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Currently amd's ARMs are on 28nm, true. Fab-wise, TSMC has a working 16 finFET that handles ARM's IP (google ARM Artisan). But that might not exhaust amd's options. From what I recall from the GloFo/IBM deal, IBM were transferring some 14 finFET tech to GloFo. And though I mentioned in the reply to wsippel that 14 finFET would be way too bleeding for nintendo, I still think there could be an exception to that - that a vendor whom nintendo trust completely could 'usher' them into such an advanced node. /shrug
Whhhat? How do you know for sure this stigma will last for years? Where are you pulling these absolute conclusions from? As i just said the gaming community has already shown that it only takes a really good introduction/e3/launch to get people to forget about what ever stigma. Make a platform that does it all right and creates excitment and thats what people will care about, anyone can step in next gen and be the next PS4.
Also I hate when people try to say that "only having power wont change things". No ones saying that power alone will change anything, i just gave an entire essay on all the things Nintendo could do to get western gamers/3rd parties back, and that wasnt just power alone, it was doing things right by gamers and 3rd parties, having a powerful introduction/e3/launch. This is the issue, Nintendo had power in The past, but there was ALWAYS something that detered 3rd parties and/or gamers. with gamecube it was the small disks, with n64 it was cartridges etc. Power isnt all they need, but its one of the minimum things they need to get gamers and 3rd parties onto their consoles, besides also making it easy to develop for. Thats all we're saying.
BronzeWolf
Banned
People keep repeating this since the Gamecube days. It will not happen
Fourth Storm
Member
"mass production will start in May or June 2016, while the console's official launch may take place around July, the sources said."
Reading this makes me picture Iwata showing up at next years digital event and dropping the "its out next month" bomb. The rational part of me says they won't do that because they need to having a crazy marketing campaign to sell 20 million in a year, then I remember that they didn't seem to think marketing for the Wii U was needed either.
Eh, if the portable really is due in July, I can see an unveiling in March/April to give investors a taste of the year to come. Let the hype build into E3 and until release. The long wait from the 3ds/Wii U unveilings until their release killed alot of the hype. The lack of information was brutal.
Father_Brain
Banned
Developers and IPs targeted at the same core market that Sony/MS target?
Uh, can I have some of what you're smoking?
Except that it hasn't shown this at all. 360 and PS4 both built heavily on the foundations (third-party relations, online networks, first-party studios, branding) that MS and Sony established in generations prior. Nintendo is essentially starting from scratch as far as the AAA core market is concerned.
I feel bad for MS sometimes, because they could of been in a much better place today if they hadn't fucked up so hard with the RROD. That killed the 360's profitability for a long time.
I sometime wonder what a non-RROD 360 life would have done for their next console, because I have a feeling it wouldn't be quite what the XBone is today.
But this isn't the next generation, we're still in the middle of the current generation. All of those screw-ups Nintendo has made that drove third parties away added up, & now people only see Nintendo systems as a means to play Nintendo games. With a few exceptions (most of which are either from the Japanese or from indies), third party games don't sell on Nintendo platforms, ZombiU proved that despite both Ubisoft & Nintendo's efforts at promoting the game. Making the NX powerful & promoting the hell out of it are only but Steps 1 & 2 of a 20+ step process that will take years for it to truly make hold. And even then, the third parties won't even dip a toe until after the NX proves itself at launch. So bare minimum, Nintendo's mostly on their own Day 1.
I see NX being a console that uses a handheld portable console as its controller.
AMD everything. Console using one of their latest APU designs for PS4 beating performance.
I'm sure they can achieve this quite cost effectively.
As I've said before the PS4 is two years old now and was hardly cutting edge at launch.
AMD everything. Console using one of their latest APU designs for PS4 beating performance.
I'm sure they can achieve this quite cost effectively.
As I've said before the PS4 is two years old now and was hardly cutting edge at launch.
No, it probably will not. But the press and gaming community will tear them a new one once again for making another under powered system. Personally, I don't need it to be as powerful, but I don't think that it is going to do them any favors. They are in a really tough spot.
Do you think NX devices will definitely use GCN, or if there a possibility that Nintendo might use VLIW5 again? They do have a history of using older tech.