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[Aurora]

I've spanked my kids once each and none of it was out of anger. Not everyone does things for the reasons you would do them.What does hitting someone for vandalism have to do with drawing a line in the sand for my child? A line that will be drawn for them many times in their lives by people who do not care one iota for their welfare. Who are you to judge why I spanked my child?

I don't see how you could hit your child if not lost in anger. Spanking your child is completely unnecessary. There are countless ways of disciplining a child without having to use physical violence, and therefore it is a form of child abuse.

 

[JayDubya]

Nah.

Again, there's hitting someone with the intention to cause trauma or loss of consciousness, and then there's spanking to apply temporary pain as a positive punishment. I wouldn't be so quick to equate the two.

You don't need actual harm for this type of operant conditioning to work.

 

[daw840]

I don't see how you could hit your child if not lost in anger. Spanking your child is completely unnecessary. There are countless ways of disciplining a child without having to use physical violence, and therefore it is a form of child abuse.

Dude, no it's not. Intent dictates violence. You aren't spanking a child to cause physical damage. I am not advocating spanking for any little piddly reason, but as has been stated before in this thread there are some things that need swift, immediate, and harsh punishment simply to preserve the safety of the child. Wandering out in the street for example, or reaching for things on the kitchen stove.

 

[Prime crotch]

A good spanking is not abuse and it never done any harm, of course, if you're beating your kids pretty much everyday then something is wrong with you

 

[Aurora]

Dude, no it's not. Intent dictates violence. You aren't spanking a child to cause physical damage. I am not advocating spanking for any little piddly reason, but as has been stated before in this thread there are some things that need swift, immediate, and harsh punishment simply to preserve the safety of the child. Wandering out in the street for example, or reaching for things on the kitchen stove.

Right, in situations where the child is in imminent danger then I would accept brash actions like pulling or hitting it away, or whatever the case may be. But what I am objecting to is getting physical with a child as a form of punishment (I'm sure people want to sugar coat it as discipline). If your child throws food on the floor, or draws on the wall, or does something else naughty, why on Earth should this lead to being hit/smacked/spanked? You are actively deciding to cause physical pain on the child when there are plenty of other methods of teaching it that what it did was wrong.

 

[freddy]

I don't see how you could hit your child if not lost in anger. Spanking your child is completely unnecessary. There are countless ways of disciplining a child without having to use physical violence, and therefore it is a form of child abuse.

How old is your child?

Also just so you know my spanks would not even have hurt my children physically.

 

[nyong]

While I'm not convinced that physical punishment is the best option, I am convinced that whatever parents are doing now is not working.

If a parent wants to spank their children, I really don't care. I was spanked with a belt, spatula, stick, etc. Not hard usually...when my mom did I fake cried. It never hurt, and I never really cared. The only time I cared was when my father would spank (I really messed up) because he would inflict pain. When it came to spanking, pain was the only thing that made me think twice before doing something stupid.

They stopped spanking when I was around 9. My mom told me to "drop my drawers" and I called her a pervert. They still like to tell this story.

Now time-outs I really did not mind. They rarely lasted long enough for me to care. For my childhood, pain was easily the most effective form of punishment.

 

[darscot]

Did your dad start right off with a belt and smacking you in the face, or was it an open hand to the ass?

I'm not saying this will happen with you and your kids, but that is how it happens with other parents and their kids.

The whole gateway thing is just bullshit. People need to see the difference, if spanking is not giving you the result you need how stupid do you have to be to realize beating them is not going to make things better.

 

[harSon]

Right, in situations where the child is in imminent danger then I would accept brash actions like pulling or hitting it away, or whatever the case may be. But what I am objecting to is getting physical with a child as a form of punishment (I'm sure people want to sugar coat it as discipline). If your child throws food on the floor, or draws on the wall, or does something else naughty, why on Earth should this lead to being hit/smacked/spanked? You are actively deciding to cause physical pain on the child when there are plenty of other methods of teaching it that what it did was wrong.

Physical punishment comes in after all other methods prove ineffective, like everyone else, you're assuming that we condone parenting that relies solely on physical punishment which is not that case.

An example: Little Billy draws on the wall so you pull him aside and have a talk, possibly having him pitch in with the cleaning if he's old enough. He does it again the next day, this time you're firmer with you're speech and decide to take his coloring tools away as punishment. The day after that he finds the crayons and colors on the wall once again, you're even firmer with your speech and you decide to send him to his room and ground him for a week or two. The day after that, he colors on the wall ONCE AGAIN, you've tried to reason with the kid and have exhausted most tools at your disposal, so you decide to give him a firm but harmless but whipping.

 

[echoshifting]

and have exhausted most tools at your disposal

Nope.

 

[Pimpwerx]

What if hitting really isn't the best way? Isn't that sort of suggested by most research?

Research is wrong. I can tell you for a fact that spanking is the only thing that kept me in line. I'm from the islands, where any parent is allowed to spank you. If your parents aren't around to see you fucking up, you can expect the nearest grown-up to smack you and then find your parents so they can smack you too.

Happened to me in the supermarket with my sister. We were messing around in an aisle when some stranger came and smacked both of us across the face. Asked us where our parents were and took us to them. She told my mom and dad, and they both smacked up again. We learned not to fuck up...or at least to be more careful where we are.

IMO, too many kids are wise to the ways of the system. If my parents didn't beat me, I'd run roughshod over the system. It's obvious to anyone over the age of 10 or so that there are lighter punishments for kids than for adults. Thus, it's really tempting to act the fool when you're younger. For use island kids, you were risking your life acting up. Hell, we got beat in school too. That's something I would have loved as a teacher. I don't know how many times I'd have beaten the respect into some of those kids I taught. PEACE.

EDIT: Oh yeah, punishment should always be followed-up by an explanation and discussion. After we were spanked, my parents always sat us down and explained to us why we had to be spanked, and then issued a firm warning. If we were stupid enough to go there again, you can bet we were getting beat again. But my parents were teachers, so they had a much better understanding of discipline than most parents. There really should be some sort of certification for parents. Force everyone to pass a basic parenting course before having kids, much like they make us do before getting driver's licenses.

 

[freddy]

I think what some of you have to realise here is that physical discipline does not always equate to violence or anger.

I myself was hit once as a child and never had to be hit again. I tried to push my father to see how far he would go. He told me if I continued he would kick my arse. I righteously told him that he would not. He lifted his boot an kicked me firmly in the backside hard enough to make me cry. From that little episode I learnt that there are certain lines you don't cross with certain people whether you are right or wrong.

The world at times is a pretty cruel one and not all people act within the rules. There are times when you can take a stand safely and times to hold your tongue and live to fight another day. I hope that by drawing that line in the sand for my children that they will realise that while they can get away with a few things in life, other things they do will have have serious repercussions for them.

It's not about instilling fear or causing pain. It's about teaching them boundaries and the sometimes harsh consequences of crossing them.

 

[echoshifting]

I myself was hit once as a child and never had to be hit again. I tried to push my father to see how far he would go. He told me if I continued he would kick my arse. I righteously told him that he would not. He lifted his boot an kicked me firmly in the backside hard enough to make me cry. From that little episode I learnt that there are certain lines you don't cross with certain people whether you are right or wrong.

This is abuse. Sorry, but it is. I agree that the jury is still out on spanking but kicking a child is abusive, and it makes me a little sick to my stomach to think the victim still believes it was fine. I wouldn't kick my dog, let alone my child, regardless of the circumstances.

 

[freddy]

This is abuse. Sorry, but it is. I agree that the jury is still out on spanking but kicking a child is abusive, and it makes me a little sick to my stomach to think the victim still believes it was fine. I wouldn't kick my dog, let alone my child, regardless of the circumstances.

You don't have to apoligise to me. Your thoughts and beliefs are your own and are not affecting me at all other than to be wryly amused. I think it would amuse my father no end to be called a child abuser as well. Different strokes and all that.

 

[darscot]

This is abuse. Sorry, but it is. I agree that the jury is still out on spanking but kicking a child is abusive, and it makes me a little sick to my stomach to think the victim still believes it was fine. I wouldn't kick my dog, let alone my child, regardless of the circumstances.

So what do you feel should have happened to the Father in this case of "abuse", and for that matter the child as well.

 

[Pimpwerx]

This is abuse. Sorry, but it is. I agree that the jury is still out on spanking but kicking a child is abusive, and it makes me a little sick to my stomach to think the victim still believes it was fine. I wouldn't kick my dog, let alone my child, regardless of the circumstances.

Bullshit. Striking with a hand can hurt as much as a foot. I've been kicked by my father before. I thought I could avoid my spanking by curling up into a ball on the floor, but my dad just kicked me in the butt and told me to get up. All the crying and screaming I did was not from pain, but from the act of punishment. There are exceptions as there are certainly abusive parents, but spanking/beating is more about the act than the physical pain that inflicted. I remember knowing this even back then. I'd sit there bawling, rubbing my butt from where the belt hit me, but it wasn't physical pain that made me cry, but rather the fact that I forced my parents to have to punish me. It was upsetting them that upset me.

Anyone who thinks spanking has no place in discipline should teach middle school. You will understand very quickly why pain is a necessary deterrent. It's one of the most basic forms of discipline in nature. It works on us too. PEACE.

 

[aceface]

Nah.

Again, there's hitting someone with the intention to cause trauma or loss of consciousness, and then there's spanking to apply temporary pain as a positive punishment. I wouldn't be so quick to equate the two.

You don't need actual harm for this type of operant conditioning to work.

All striking of children is child abuse! There is no grey area! Temporary pain can have long term psychological effects and is damaging and should not be done! I will not be swayed by any well reasoned arguments to the contrary!

 

[Outcast2004]

I think what some of you have to realise here is that physical discipline does not always equate to violence or anger.

I myself was hit once as a child and never had to be hit again. I tried to push my father to see how far he would go. He told me if I continued he would kick my arse. I righteously told him that he would not. He lifted his boot an kicked me firmly in the backside hard enough to make me cry. From that little episode I learnt that there are certain lines you don't cross with certain people whether you are right or wrong.

The world at times is a pretty cruel one and not all people act within the rules. There are times when you can take a stand safely and times to hold your tongue and live to fight another day. I hope that by drawing that line in the sand for my children that they will realise that while they can get away with a few things in life, other things they do will have have serious repercussions for them.

It's not about instilling fear or causing pain. It's about teaching them boundaries and the sometimes harsh consequences of crossing them.

For the bolded, I agree with you 100% (as a father myself who has had to give his daughter a swat when she's way out of line), but this place is FILLED bleeding hearts with no perspective. Chances are most of those who are condemning don't even have, or will even consider having, children.

Let's put things this way.... a child will learn right away if they've done something wrong from a swat on the rear end.
Try to reason with a 3 year old and see how far that gets you.... they'll go right back to torturing the pet or painting the wall.

 

[daw840]

All striking of children is child abuse! There is no grey area! Temporary pain can have long term psychological effects and is damaging and should not be done! I will not be swayed by any well reasoned arguments to the contrary!

Out of curiosity, how old are you and what country are you from?

 

[aceface]

Out of curiosity, how old are you and what country are you from?

I'm 29 from the USA. The preceding post was more than a bit tongue in cheek though.

 

[JayDubya]

All striking of children is child abuse! There is no grey area! Temporary pain can have long term psychological effects and is damaging and should not be done! I will not be swayed by any well reasoned arguments to the contrary!

Heh.

To be fair, this thread has demonstrated quite a few examples of positive punishment I'd consider excessive or abusive. Although, I believe I outlined pretty clearly the "no actual harm" thing as the standard.

 

[daw840]

I'm 29 from the USA. The preceding post was more than a bit tongue in cheek though.

Oh ok...LOL, my sarcasm detector must be off.

 

[nyong]

While I certainly appreciate these kinds of debates, I despise the movement towards pulling children out of "abusive" homes. I suspect that quite a few people in this thread would have been thrown into foster care if Child Protective Services had caught wind at what had happened to them at home. The poster who had been kicked one time by his father? You can bet on criminal charges being filed against dad and the possibility of foster care for the kid. Would this have been justified?

 

[echoshifting]

Bullshit. Striking with a hand can hurt as much as a foot. I've been kicked by my father before. I thought I could avoid my spanking by curling up into a ball on the floor, but my dad just kicked me in the butt and told me to get up. All the crying and screaming I did was not from pain, but from the act of punishment. There are exceptions as there are certainly abusive parents, but spanking/beating is more about the act than the physical pain that inflicted. I remember knowing this even back then. I'd sit there bawling, rubbing my butt from where the belt hit me, but it wasn't physical pain that made me cry, but rather the fact that I forced my parents to have to punish me. It was upsetting them that upset me.

Don't agree at all but there's no way we are going to see eye to eye on this so I'm not going to drag it out.

Anyone who thinks spanking has no place in discipline should teach middle school. You will understand very quickly why pain is a necessary deterrent. It's one of the most basic forms of discipline in nature. It works on us too. PEACE.

I'm not sure what you are trying to imply here, although it's sort of a funny example since I've spent a lot of time in middle schools as a teacher's assistant and it is my goal to be a middle school teacher when I get a handle on my health issues. Are you in the USA? I'm pretty sure you would get fired and possibly go to jail for using physical discipline in a middle school here.

So what do you feel should have happened to the Father in this case of "abuse", and for that matter the child as well.

That's a completely different discussion; I'm not comfortable trying to get into it in this thread.

Chances are most of those who are condemning don't even have, or will even consider having, children.

A quick skim of the thread would reveal that this is an absurd fallacy. I have a daughter myself, I plan to have more children, and I will never raise my hand to any of them.

 

[domokunrox]

I dug this up for all to enjoy.

Love your kids? Prove it by beating them

Bottom line

"Remember: never take shit from your kids. You make payments on the house, utilities, their clothes, school, and their food. You own them. If they don't like it, they can move out. If you love your kids, love them enough to beat them so that they don't grow up to be idiots. "

 

[Ganhyun]

Oh ok...LOL, my sarcasm detector must be off.

In this thread it would be hard for it not to be at times. Its hard to tell who is serious and who is sarcastic. :lol

 

[Pezking]

I can tell you for a fact that spanking is the only thing that kept me in line.

 

[Meier]

I don't see how you could hit your child if not lost in anger. Spanking your child is completely unnecessary.

Wrong. Worked for thousands of years, still works today. Not spanking your child is doing them a disservice IMO.

 

[Vyer]

Too many people think that 'corporal punishment' means beating the hell out of your kids when they don't eat their vegetables.

I've got no problem with corporal punishment, but the real problem with it is - just like any other approach - lots of parents start to just rely or lean on it. Something like a spanking isn't for every damn thing a kid does that a parent doesn't like. That's when you start to get to the abuse side, or the 'completely ineffective' side.

Ugh, this is a little depressing. Saying "well I got hit every now and then and I turned out fine" is not a good argument. "Shit man, I do heroin ALL THE TIME and I'm still kicking, fuck the research!".

This may be the worst analogy I've ever heard/read.

 

[adamsappel]

The whole gateway thing is just bullshit. People need to see the difference, if spanking is not giving you the result you need how stupid do you have to be to realize beating them is not going to make things better.

Apparently, some people's parents must be pretty stupid, because their stories revolve around being beaten often by them.

Bullshit. Striking with a hand can hurt as much as a foot. I've been kicked by my father before. I thought I could avoid my spanking by curling up into a ball on the floor, but my dad just kicked me in the butt and told me to get up. All the crying and screaming I did was not from pain, but from the act of punishment. There are exceptions as there are certainly abusive parents, but spanking/beating is more about the act than the physical pain that inflicted. I remember knowing this even back then. I'd sit there bawling, rubbing my butt from where the belt hit me, but it wasn't physical pain that made me cry, but rather the fact that I forced my parents to have to punish me. It was upsetting them that upset me.

Anyone who thinks spanking has no place in discipline should teach middle school. You will understand very quickly why pain is a necessary deterrent. It's one of the most basic forms of discipline in nature. It works on us too. PEACE.

Gee, I'm glad you don't think your dad kicking you or beating you with a belt makes him an abusive parent. And it's great that you've learned a valuable lesson from it! And what are your thoughts about strangers in stores beating your own children?

 

[daw840]

Apparently, some people's parents must be pretty stupid, because their stories revolve around being beaten often by them.


Gee, I'm glad you don't think your dad kicking you or beating you with a belt makes him an abusive parent. And it's great that you've learned a valuable lesson from it! And what are your thoughts about strangers in stores beating your own children?

Different cultures man, I think that's a little out there but not completely horrible.

 

[clearacell]

You gotta instill fear in your kids. Just like how we're supposed to fear God. You're supposed to think of the punishment before you take an action, and a 1-minute corner standing would have made me done a lot more shit than the fear of getting whipped with a leather belt.

 

[gohepcat]

I'm fairly certain the reason kids are so out of control these days is because parents are no longer allowed to hit them and put the fear of God into them.

You do understand that crime, teen pregnancy and drug use has dropped every year for the last 20 years right?

Out of control? Hardly.

 

[darscot]

You do understand that crime, teen pregnancy and drug use has dropped every year for the last 20 years right?

Out of control? Hardly.

Were did you get those stats, that sounds more then a little hard to believe. The pregnancy maybe but thats just because of birth control.

 

[lil smoke]

It's amazing how people, regardless of what side one takes, can't for one second try to see someone else's viewpoint. There are obviously factors that affect the way we all feel about the issue.

ProTip: sometimes it's good to forget about what you believe and try to understand a different POV.

 

[gohepcat]

You gotta instill fear in your kids. Just like how we're supposed to fear God. You're supposed to think of the punishment before you take an action, and a 1-minute corner standing would have made me done a lot more shit than the fear of getting whipped with a leather belt.

My god this is stupid.

You want to know how to control your kids?

Consistently punish them for bad behavior If you ever...EVER let your kid get something after whining for it..congratulations...you suck as a parent.

That's it folks. Just stop rewarding shitty behavior! I know it's hard to believe but if every time your kid does something bad, he gets punished for it...he will stop doing that thing. EVERY SINGLE TIME. Not some of the time, not most of the time, not nearly all of the time EVERY TIME.

God damn. My sister is an Atheist who has never laid a hand on her children. My nephew is on his way to an Ivy League school and my niece is right behind him. They are the 2 coolest, and nice kids you will ever meet.

 

[whitehawk]

And you're a little bitch.

See the effects of weak parenting? Maybe your parents need[ed] the lessons, chump.

As for me:
I got hit with the belt when I acted out big time. Usually I just got a verbal warning and maybe a smack on the hand. The worst I got was one time I cussed my cousin out in front of my mom "FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!" at the age of 8 or so and my mom promptly smacked me in the mouth and made me cry in front of all my cousins. Good times, hahaha. :lol :lol

Spoiler

[And yes, I'm Mexican so those huge, thick belts really did a great job to make me think twice before doing something stupid.]

Im a little bitch now.. Where did that come from. My parents didnt need to hit me, because they raised me very well. My dad was beat as a kid, by his parents and teachers, and he hated it. So he has never done it to me.

As long as you have parents who love you and reassure that you are a wonderful human being, then there is no need for violence. There is never a need for violence. My dad has yelled at me only a handful of times. Everytime it happened, I hated it and almost made me want to rebel again. When he simply comes forward and tells me that he didnt like what I did, I learn much more.

If you need to hit your kid, its because you are a bad parent.

 

[gohepcat]

Were did you get those stats, that sounds more then a little hard to believe. The pregnancy maybe but thats just because of birth control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Do you seriously think you are the first person to think "Kids these days are out of control!"
It's the most common misconception there is.

It was more dangerous to live when we were children than it is now

Sorry to disappoint you all.

 

[Zeke]

damn this thread is still kicking. I'm a little shocked I haven't seen a how can she slap gif yet

It was more dangerous to live when we were children than it is now [/B]

sure if you live in burbs and not the ghetto

 

[Zeke]

dp

 

[zombieshavebrains]

I'm 23 and from the USA. So maybe my parents sometimes experimented with different punishments that might have been considered answers to different ways to punish your kids.

What my dad would do when we were young was always make sure we had rather short hair. Hair short enough so when we wouldn't stop fucking around or he wanted to get our attention he could pull it and get his point across. He would also employ the use of spatulas, yard sticks, and the flicking of the ear. This was when my parents were together.

When my parents divorced my mom did physically abuse us cause i guess she didn't know how to cope with being a single mom, working all the time, and raising two kids that raised hell all the time. It was mainly directed towards my older brother but man did we get some beatings.

My dad kinda gave up all kinds of physical abuse for The Silent Treatment. I don't know...we're just a typical dysfunctional family i suppose...

I can only remember my mom ever using fists and what not after my parents were divorced. I believe there is the possibility, as some have said, that the discipline can easily lend itself towards rage and physical abuse. But at the same time when we got caught and received punishment we tried our hardest to correct our ways. It has its place and i do think there is a sort of "pussification" going on. But society telling people how to raise their children isn't anything new.

 

[gohepcat]

damn this thread is still kicking. I'm a little shocked I haven't seen a how can she slap gif yet

sure if you live in burbs and not the ghetto

Nope. Sorry. Crime in NYC slums dropped every year from the 70's onward. Anyone remember NYC in the 70's...fuck man...that shit was like a war zone.

Crime in the "ghetto" has dropped more than crime in the 'burbs. There are far more social programs now than there were back then.
And...well..the whole abortion becoming legal had a HUGE effect.

 

[zombieshavebrains]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Do you seriously think you are the first person to think "Kids these days are out of control!"
It's the most common misconception there is.

It was more dangerous to live when we were children than it is now

Sorry to disappoint you all.

Actually isn't that because of Roe vs. Wade and more low-income single moms whose children are more prone to violent crimes and who didn't want a child in the first place could get an abortion?

 

[Althane]

As long as you have parents who love you and reassure that you are a wonderful human being, then there is no need for violence.

And what if you're NOT a wonderful human being? Let's be honest, a hell of a lot of us aren't "wonderful human beings". We're sitting on Gaf, having silly discussions, rather than actually doing work or anything.

Plus, you deserve no right to be called a wonderful human being until you've done something that makes you a wonderful human being. Humans to start with are far from wonderful people.

 

[gohepcat]

Actually isn't that because of Roe vs. Wade and more low-income single moms whose children are more prone to violent crimes and who didn't want a child in the first place could get an abortion?

ding ding ding!

Abortions for all!

Yea I have no doubt that's what caused the drop. It's just logical.

 

[John_B]

You can discipline dogs without beating them, so I'm guessing it probably could apply for children as well.

Surely some actions could warrant a smack upside the head or similar, but systematic beatings is just stone age child raising.

 

[Vyer]

My god this is stupid.

You want to know how to control your kids?

Consistently punish them for bad behavior If you ever...EVER let your kid get something after whining for it..congratulations...you suck as a parent.

That's it folks. Just stop rewarding shitty behavior! I know it's hard to believe but if every time your kid does something bad, he gets punished for it...he will stop doing that thing. EVERY SINGLE TIME. Not some of the time, not most of the time, not nearly all of the time EVERY TIME.

God damn. My sister is an Atheist who has never laid a hand on her children. My nephew is on his way to an Ivy League school and my niece is right behind him. They are the 2 coolest, and nice kids you will ever meet.

I think the argument is over what that punishment should be, not when they should be punished. But I agree with your statement here.

 

[JayDubya]

Actually isn't that because of Roe vs. Wade and more low-income single moms whose children are more prone to violent crimes and who didn't want a child in the first place could get an abortion?

Well at first I thought this was off-topic, but then I figure we're talking about deplorable and destructive parental behavior, so okay.

 

[Althane]

You can discipline dogs without beating them, so I'm guessing it probably could apply for children as well.

Surely some actions could warrant a smack upside the head or similar, but systematic beatings is just stone age child raising.

This may not fall under child, but my Grandpa told me when he was young he worked at construction for a job. He got pretty strong, and got cocky one day at home, and took a swing at his neighbor. His neighbor looked at Grandpa's father, who gave him permission, and then just punched Grandpa across the room with a single hit.

Didn't hurt him permanently, and let him know something he should never try again.

And served as a great warning to me!

 

[BigGreenMat]

You do understand that crime, teen pregnancy and drug use has dropped every year for the last 20 years right?

Out of control? Hardly.

Yeah, that is because we started not having those kids (abortions for all!!). I really liked the abortion/crime rate correlation in Freakonomics.