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Discrimination and prejudice against attractive women

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So uh, are we really suggesting that overall attractive women are equally harmed as they are advantaged by their looks? This just seems patently false considering every study that's ever been conducted on this. I'm sure this woman had a bad experience, but realistically it is likely far outweighed by the advantages she has reaped. Even if she is a specific case where she has had to deal with more negatives due to the makeup of her field, the reality is that attractive women (and men to a lesser degree) reap significant social and professional advantages over their less attractive counterparts.
 
Isn't the original article actually guilty of what it is trying to condemn. Aren't they assuming the booth babes are not intelligent because they are attractive? Otherwise why would being assumed to be a 'booth attendant' be considered bad. If you look like a male model and are hanging out a fashion show people might mistake you for a model, its no aspersion on your character unless you think that male models are morons.
 
ronito said:
kwhUZ.jpg
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^this


Loofy said:
Chris Rock covers this phenomenon.
http://youtu.be/2-idd5KTFiM?t=32m2s
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^this



Dave Chapelle on how women dress.


^ and that are about all that needs to be said.
 
poppabk said:
Isn't the original article actually guilty of what it is trying to condemn. Aren't they assuming the booth babes are not intelligent because they are attractive? Otherwise why would being assumed to be a 'booth attendant' be considered bad. If you look like a male model and are hanging out a fashion show people might mistake you for a model, its no aspersion on your character unless you think that male models are morons.
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If I were to generalize, I would assume that most models (male or female) can make a better living using their looks rather than their intellect.
 
ronito said:
kwhUZ.jpg
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Except sadly we have already covered this. Some women's breasts are too large to fit into many shirts, and even if they can find shirts that cover their breasts they tend to look even bigger - attracting even more attention. I don't know if there's really a male equivalent to this.
 
shanshan310 said:
Except sadly we have already covered this. Some women's breasts are too large to fit into many shirts, and even if they can find shirts that cover their breasts they tend to look even bigger - attracting even more attention. I don't know if there's really a male equivalent to this.
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I went to a store once and saw shirts that do not have plunging neck-lines.
 
shanshan310 said:
Except sadly we have already covered this. Some women's breasts are too large to fit into many shirts, and even if they can find shirts that cover their breasts they tend to look even bigger - attracting even more attention. I don't know if there's really a male equivalent to this.
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I guess if you want to wear skinny jeans and your junk is too big?
 
On the one hand, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the hotties. If I had a crush on a guy, he wanted my help to get the hot girl to talk to him. Dudes accidentally say extremely cruel things to their ugly female friends, even if the ugly girl ISN'T into him. More often than that, I would just get discarded when a hot body entered the room, reminding me that I wasn't a FRIEND friend, and I wasn't a GIRL friend, I was some kind of middle creature that fucks up their game.

And in general, yes, I worry about interviews and strangers and all those things.

ON THE OTHER HAND.

I've never been catcalled. (I was once fat-called, but that was just once). I have never been groped. I have never (to my knowledge) been targeted for rape. I have never been the target of physical violence. Because I am usually invisible to men. That meant being invisible to a lot of good men, but it also meant being invisible to pretty much all of the bad men. And for that I do understand that beautiful women have to put up with a lot of awful bullshit. (I have been truly astounded at what a lot of my hot friends have been through. Craaaaaaaaazy.)
 
I've found that very attractive women are more likely to be extremely rude and spoiled. This doesn't make all attractive women that way, but I find it more prevalent.
 
poppabk said:
Isn't the original article actually guilty of what it is trying to condemn. Aren't they assuming the booth babes are not intelligent because they are attractive? Otherwise why would being assumed to be a 'booth attendant' be considered bad. If you look like a male model and are hanging out a fashion show people might mistake you for a model, its no aspersion on your character unless you think that male models are morons.
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I work in politics, there's an election coming and my job is to find suitable candidates for my party. When it comes to suitability sadly more often than not women are judged by their looks.

When talking about potential candidates women always have an added "good looks" argument if they are in fact good looking. It's never the case with men.

One of the worst cases was a loud cheer from some of our males when one exeptionally good looking woman decided to join our list. It wasn't her merits that were on the foreground it was the argument that: "she just has to stand there and votes would rain in."

In many instances it seems that looks is the only property woman has.
 
Captain Sparrow said:
I've found that very attractive women are more likely to be extremely rude and spoiled. This doesn't make all attractive women that way, but I find it more prevalent.
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This is very common in Miami. Goddamn its like dealing with royalty. There are exceptions of course. One girl I work with is one of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen, and just so sweet and innocent. SIGH.
 
Devolution said:
Are you a woman? And even if so, speak for yourself.
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Can you say why the generalities he made are either wrong or hasty? Unless it is strongly provoked by an instance of great insensitivity coupled with a lack of empathy due to a large amount of ignorance, I really hate responses that boil down to "unless you're a (whatever) shut up." Your response comes close to that.
 
Trurl said:
Can you say why the generalities he made are either wrong or hasty? Unless it is strongly provoked by an instance of great insensitivity coupled with a lack of empathy due to a large amount of ignorance, I really hate responses that boil down to "unless you're a (whatever) shut up." Your response comes close to that.
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Because the generality that we're ever inclined to only dress up for men is annoying and ever present. I don't. A couple women in here have said as much and explained why they wear certain articles of clothing. Zoe shouldn't have even had to justify herself if people would stop assuming what we do, we do for attention from men. I wear clothes that are comfortable, if that involves showing skin, so be it.
 
shanshan310 said:
Yes and depending on the size of your breasts non-plunging neckline shirts may still reveal cleavage. Or if they don't, they can make your breasts look disproportionately large.
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I guess fitted shirts only exist for men, in a market that's geared a great deal to women? how strange.
 
So... I haven't read the thread, but it isn't a compliment to stare at a beautiful woman's chest or rear or eyes or hair or neck or...? I'm going off track.

Is it offensive? I'm not a creep for doing that, am I? It's not like my tongue's hanging out and I'm panting.

Well, sometimes, in my head.
 
This is like complaining you have to shell out extra money for premium gasoline because you drive a Lamborghini.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself and realize other people still wish they had what you did.
 
Centurion said:
I guess fitted shirts only exist for men, in a market that's geared a great deal to women? how strange.
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Stuff that is made for women is cut terribly. For me the cut of many tops of female garments are very constricting in the chest/shoulders so my armpits cannot breathe. Women with larger breasts might feel the same in terms of sweatiness.
 
I treat extremely attractive women differently. I'm also a lot more chatty and charming if a woman on the phone sounds hot. Being attractive, male or female, is one of life's greatest perks. There's nothing wrong with it. I do not discriminate against fat or ugly people, it's just that hot chicks get more hands on attention ;)
 
oblivion, you'd be really interested in "the beauty myth" by naomi wolf. here's an excerpt:

The beauty myth tells a story: The quality called “beauty” objectively and universally exists. Women must want to embody it and men must want to possess women who embody it. This embodiment is an imperative for women and not for men, which situation is necessary and natural because it is biological, sexual and evolutionary: Strong men battle for beautiful women, and beautiful women are more reproductively successful. Women’s beauty must correlate with their fertility, and since this system is based on sexual selection, it is inevitable and changeless.

None of this is true. “Beauty” is a currency system like the gold standard. Like any economy, it is determined by politics, and in the modern age in the West, it is the last, best belief system that keeps male dominance intact. In assigning value to women in a vertical hierarchy according to a culturally imposed physical standard, it is an expression of power relations in which women must unnaturally compete for resources that men have appropriated for themselves.

“Beauty” is not universal, or changeless, though the West pretends that all ideals of female beauty stem from one Platonic Ideal Woman; The Maori admire a fat vulva, and the Padung, droopy breasts. Nor is “beauty” a function of evolution: its ideals change at a pace far more rapid than that of the evolution of the species, and Charles Darwin himself was unconvinced by his own explanation that “beauty” resulted from a sexual selection that deviated from the rule of natural selection; for women to compete with women through “beauty” is a reversal of the way in which natural selection affects all other mammals.

Anthropology has overturned the notion that females must be “beautiful” to be selected to mate:Evelyn Reed, Elaine Morgan, and others have dismissed sociobiological assertions of innate male polygamy and female monogamy. Female higher primates are the sexual initiators: not only do they seek out and enjoy sex with many partners, but “every nonpregnant female takes her turn at being the most desirable of all her troop. And that cycle keeps on turning as long as she lives.” The inflamed sexual organs of primates are often cited by male sociobiologists as analogous to human relating to female “beauty”, when in fact that is a universal, nonhierarchical female primate characteristic.
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can send you the rest, if you're actually interested.
 
As an unattractive man I think there are pros and cons to everything but everyone you ask would rather be good looking than ugly regardless of what inconveniences come with it. It's simply a natural advantage in life.
 
MiDNiGHTS said:
As an unattractive man I think there are pros and cons to everything but everyone you ask would rather be good looking than ugly regardless of what inconveniences come with it. It's simply a natural advantage in life.
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How do we know that you're unattractive though? You are the worst judge of that, you're so negative all the time.
 
Ela Hadrun said:
On the one hand, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the hotties. If I had a crush on a guy, he wanted my help to get the hot girl to talk to him. Dudes accidentally say extremely cruel things to their ugly female friends, even if the ugly girl ISN'T into him. More often than that, I would just get discarded when a hot body entered the room, reminding me that I wasn't a FRIEND friend, and I wasn't a GIRL friend, I was some kind of middle creature that fucks up their game.

And in general, yes, I worry about interviews and strangers and all those things.

ON THE OTHER HAND.

I've never been catcalled. (I was once fat-called, but that was just once). I have never been groped. I have never (to my knowledge) been targeted for rape. I have never been the target of physical violence. Because I am usually invisible to men. That meant being invisible to a lot of good men, but it also meant being invisible to pretty much all of the bad men. And for that I do understand that beautiful women have to put up with a lot of awful bullshit. (I have been truly astounded at what a lot of my hot friends have been through. Craaaaaaaaazy.)
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I think one of the biggest problems women are kind of just divided into two groups "hot" and "not", at least in the media. Either way we're being judged on the way we look.
 
Yeah, there are two sides to this coin. On the one hand, people tend to treat you nicer and want to help you more when you are attractive. On the other, sometimes you are not taken as seriously or some people may try and take advantage of you, assuming you may be dumb since it would seem that a ridiculously attractive person wouldn't put much stock into anything but making sure they are hot or because (as women and men) you look daintier? That is really more so for women since most attractive men are buff or toned and muscle-y, and not so much dainty... but I digress. lol

SO yeah, being attractive comes with its ups and downs.
 
shanshan310 said:
I think one of the biggest problems women are kind of just divided into two groups "hot" and "not", at least in the media. Either way we're being judged on the way we look.
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My friends and I describe it as a "life easiness continuum."

The "easiest" end of the spectrum is occupied solely by the most attractive women. The "middle" is occupied by all men and normal looking girls. The "most difficult" end is occupied solely by unattractive women. Basically looks just have more of an influence for women, but that isn't always a bad thing or a good thing. In the middle everything is pretty much the same.
 
I used to interview for jobs at my previous management position. I was never outright told not to hire an employee, becuase that would be a bit illigeal, however if I was ever the interviewer of an attractive female two things would always happen:

1. I would be encouraged to go over my opinion of said applicant's answers to make sure I actually felt the way about said applicant.
2. A female would always be the second interviewer. As in, if another man was coming with me, they'd be pulled off and replaced with a female. Then, the female would be instructed to ask more, generally unnecessary, follow up questions.

I'm not saying that in all circumstances a woman that looks attractive has it harder, but if we're pretending that pretty girls don't get a lot of shit for being successful we're being delusional.

Shit, I remember plenty of times having my yearly reviews of attractive girls tippled checked to make sure their performance wasn't just my penis taking control of my judgement. Or, all the times that an attractive girl would talk to me it was assumed harassment might be taking place as we both looked good and well we all know that every pretty girl that's around a good looking guy are always having sex.
 
brucewaynegretzky said:
My friends and I describe it as a "life easiness continuum."

The "easiest" end of the spectrum is occupied solely by the most attractive women. The "middle" is occupied by all men and normal looking girls. The "most difficult" end is occupied solely by unattractive women. Basically looks just have more of an influence for women, but that isn't always a bad thing or a good thing. In the middle everything is pretty much the same.
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I doubt all men occupy the middle part of the spectrum.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
I doubt all men occupy the middle part of the spectrum.
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No they just don't get to the same heights as the most attractive women. The most attractive men do not gain the same level of benefits as the most attractive females is the point here. Hence, the "spectrum."

EDIT: For example, how many men can you think of that have the opportunity to marry young and never really work for their entire lives? This is an opportunity available to some of the most attractive women in the world.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
I doubt all men occupy the middle part of the spectrum.
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Yeah, I'm calling BS on that one.

brucewaynegretzky said:
No they just don't get to the same heights as the most attractive women. The most attractive men do not gain the same level of benefits as the most attractive females is the point here. Hence, the "spectrum."

EDIT: For example, how many men can you think of that have the opportunity to marry young and never really work for their entire lives? This is an opportunity available to some of the most attractive women in the world.
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What about male gigolos?
 
Devolution said:
I'm sorry but the amount of women who manage to work the gold digger angle do not outweigh the amount of horseshit most other women have to swallow.
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Um that wasn't what I said at all. The point is that doesn't exist for men. If you read what I said I also pointed out that unattractive women get the most obstacles from their looks. If you're gonna disagree with me at least disagree with what I actually said.

EDIT: Basically what it boils down to is a system where you can determine how easy someone has it by looking at where they fall:

1.) Attractive women
2.) Men
3.) Unattractive women.

BUT, like shanshan said, categories don't work. It's all about the spectrum. The highest levels of "getting by on your looks" really only exist for the most attractive women (basically your supermodels). Even the men who get the most advantages from their looks possible don't get the same advantages of women who fall in the same percentile looks wise. However, the ugliest men don't deal with the same shit the women in their percentile do.
 
What if they want to work? Then, as the bank article shows, it works against them. If they actually want to be something in life, it just harms their chances.
 
JokerOfSpades said:
What if they want to work? Then, as the bank article shows, it works against them. If they actually want to be something in life, it just harms their chances.
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Not necessarily. There's been plenty of studies that show there's an implicit bias that makes us value the work of attractive people more. There's an argument to be made they are just more likely to notice when it makes it more difficult because they are so used to the preference they normally receive. For every instance you hear of people getting held back by their looks you can find multiple stories of people getting ahead due to their looks.
 
JokerOfSpades said:
Yes, but looks only get you so far. What if you want to be a CEO, for example?
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Then be good at what you do AND attractive? I don't think you can realistically say that looks are holding anyone back from becoming a CEO.

I'm confused as to what your point is here. Mine has been pretty consistently that as a general rule it is almost (and I'm tempted to drop the almost) always preferable to be more attractive. The benefits gained for just about anyone far outweigh the drawbacks that come with it.

EDIT: O, and that the effects of attractiveness are far more pronounced for women than for men, both positives and negatives.
 
JokerOfSpades said:
Yes, but looks only get you so far. What if you want to be a CEO, for example?
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The interesting thing about the good looking drawback is that if you really wanted to, REALLY REALLY wanted to, you could make yourself ugly.

So if it's such a huge curse, you can easily remove it from your life if you wanted. Overnight, if you really tried.
 
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