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DmC: Devil May Cry - Mission 9 Gameplay - Eurogamer
- Thread starter mocoworm
- Start date
True that, but still surprising.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I'm going to be honest. MGR is going to be a great high-speed NG. It has little to offer a DMC player if your comparing the two directly. The combo potential will be more limited and there probably be a lot less weapon.
What rising brings to the table is a new way to play (zandatsu) and a way to play some amazing set pieces that would be little more than QTEs in any other game. It's still metal gear at its heart and is going to frustrate a few DMC fans.
I know I'm gonna love the game, but I'm not looking at with rose tinted glassess anymore.
Honestly, I think the biggest surprises this year combat wise are going to be GOW:A and LOS:2. God of war seems like a huge improvement on previous titles and LOS already had a much deeper combat system than its given credit for, if they expand in it in the sequel it may become sublime.
of course neither of those games are DMC4/bayo levels but they might be on par with DmC.
Riposte
Member
As amusing it is to see someone who is often aggressively-obnoxious like Jett stuck on the side of the prosecuted minority, these threads really do get too ugly real fast. It comes off as lacking self-awareness when on one thread someone acts like an asshole over calling a game bad, then in the next thread he has to defend their enjoyment with a game from assholes.
God's Beard, DMC3 vs DMC4, what say you?
This is a good gif. I'm keeping this.
I second the mentioning of Anarchy Reigns and Metal Gear Rising. It'd be nice if those two games didn't get the Vanquish / Binary Domain syndrome where, despite all expectations, most people ignore it until way after launch.
God's Beard, DMC3 vs DMC4, what say you?
This is a good gif. I'm keeping this.
I second the mentioning of Anarchy Reigns and Metal Gear Rising. It'd be nice if those two games didn't get the Vanquish / Binary Domain syndrome where, despite all expectations, most people ignore it until way after launch.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
For those commenting about the speed of DmC versus previous DMC games. Over the past 11 years, I've probably put in over 1500 hours playing DMC games. I'd imagine I have a pretty ok grasp on it's game tempo, certainly more than many of the DMC players here, I also helped with a combo, skill driven website called handvseye.com - a website making DMC combo vids before it became cool to be a DMC combo jump cancel youtube warrior. In which, I carefully had to manage game speed and flow when editing such videos. And generally speaking, other than DMC2 which is clearly the slowest - all the DMC games have had this sort of, deliberate paced mentality. None of the DMC games are herp-a-derp, idiot proof hyperkinetic fast for the sake of being fast. In fact, given the nature of how to perform DMC's basic combos, by deliberately inputting pauses in between button presses further reiterates the notion that full-on speed isn't how DMC works.
Granted, with various cancels and high level play, certain moves and transitions can be markedly sped up, but the general eb and flow of the games are all more or less analogous. Again, aside from DMC2, which despite being 60 fps (which has nothing to do with game 'game-designed-speed') was clearly the slowest.
When I see some people claim that DmC is "soooo slow" - so, this means that previous DMC games were super fast? Ehhh, not really. Again, I outlined above why by very nature of it's design they were never super fast games.
Certain moves have different properties and may come out slower or faster depending on the game. For example, in DMC1 - a naked hightime not buffered into a combo string takes the longest out of any DMC game, but it's also one of the fastest when it's buffered into a combo, primarily, after two sword swings, then you hightime. Where as DmC's hightime is pretty fast, as it's Drive. The travel time for Stinger in DMC3 is probably the fastest. When you break it down by specifics certain things are going to be faster than others.
But, in general, if you were to agree that a game's core "established game tempo" is brought forth by the very basic core interaction between character and enemy, i.e - a standing ground combo - I think, if people were to compare let's say Dante's basic 4 hit combo in DmC and Nero's four hit combo in DMC4, I'm talking about a direct one on one comparison of using a basic combo to generalize basic game tempo, people would be surprised at how close the game speeds are.
I'm sure somebody can put a side by side comparison gif. (non-turbo mode) showing this off. You can also do that for a general evasive roll, how long it takes to reach the zenith of a jump, jump drop speed, and the speed of some of the basic moves. None of the DMC games have never been super fast or super slow when compared to the others, DmC included. Except for DMC2, which is beyond slow. It took Dante like 10 years to finish a four hit combo on an enemy.
Granted, with various cancels and high level play, certain moves and transitions can be markedly sped up, but the general eb and flow of the games are all more or less analogous. Again, aside from DMC2, which despite being 60 fps (which has nothing to do with game 'game-designed-speed') was clearly the slowest.
When I see some people claim that DmC is "soooo slow" - so, this means that previous DMC games were super fast? Ehhh, not really. Again, I outlined above why by very nature of it's design they were never super fast games.
Certain moves have different properties and may come out slower or faster depending on the game. For example, in DMC1 - a naked hightime not buffered into a combo string takes the longest out of any DMC game, but it's also one of the fastest when it's buffered into a combo, primarily, after two sword swings, then you hightime. Where as DmC's hightime is pretty fast, as it's Drive. The travel time for Stinger in DMC3 is probably the fastest. When you break it down by specifics certain things are going to be faster than others.
But, in general, if you were to agree that a game's core "established game tempo" is brought forth by the very basic core interaction between character and enemy, i.e - a standing ground combo - I think, if people were to compare let's say Dante's basic 4 hit combo in DmC and Nero's four hit combo in DMC4, I'm talking about a direct one on one comparison of using a basic combo to generalize basic game tempo, people would be surprised at how close the game speeds are.
I'm sure somebody can put a side by side comparison gif. (non-turbo mode) showing this off. You can also do that for a general evasive roll, how long it takes to reach the zenith of a jump, jump drop speed, and the speed of some of the basic moves. None of the DMC games have never been super fast or super slow when compared to the others, DmC included. Except for DMC2, which is beyond slow. It took Dante like 10 years to finish a four hit combo on an enemy.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Is there any reason why the combat is weak compared to the previous games? Has ninja theory played a dmc game before? How did fuck that part up? It's like they just said fuck style. Is it like they just said fuck style
^^^^^ this gif from the demo thread sums up how i feel completely
^^^^^ this gif from the demo thread sums up how i feel completely
Jawmuncher
Member
Looks good to me. Just played HD collection and I'm looking forward to the new change of pace in DmC
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Ah Riposte, still sore about my comments on RE6, eh(which I had forgotten about, only a search just now told me what the hell was your problem with me).
A sensible post.
BTW All of DMC4's moves(non turbo) are stored in small video files. From what I can tell Donte's and Nero's 4-hit sword combos both take curiously around the same time to execute (2.35~ seconds). But, like you said, it doesn't really mean all that much.
A sensible post.
BTW All of DMC4's moves(non turbo) are stored in small video files. From what I can tell Donte's and Nero's 4-hit sword combos both take curiously around the same time to execute (2.35~ seconds). But, like you said, it doesn't really mean all that much.
I can damn well judge the feel of the combat from a playable demo. Hitting enemies feels off, it's not satisfying, the animations are clunky, the sound effects sound like Too Human sword klanks (bad), the grab whip looks and feels awful TO ME.
That stuff isn't changing, I've played enough character based action games to know what feels good to me. This game doesn't, sorry. UE3 was a terrible choice for this game, it just isn't suited to this kind of stuff.
I also couldn't care less about the story, I find the artstyle and character modeling to be SEVERAL notches below what we saw in DMC4. I just don't have anything to look forward to with this game. I hate the drive by defenders who don't even take the time to explain what they like about it, just love to point out that people haven't played the full thing yet. The demo is more than enough to judge the basic feel of an action game. The reason I checked out the latest videos is because I wanted to see if any improvements were made to the areas that bothered me. Nope, still the same!
You really like those gifs, lol. Here, some presents stolen from /vg/.
@ LHK: I don't why you need to post how many hours you have put into the DMC series before making posts. I think people who care know this already.
First of all just simply comparing move frames and speed doesn't paint the picture of the game. In that regard there isn't much difference between let's say a Stinger in DMC3 and a Stinger in DmC. I did some speed comparisons between DMC3 and DMC4, some moves were faster in DMC3 (like Million Stab) while others were slower.
Generally where the speed of the game usually comes into play is the move fillers or the cancels used when it comes to combining moves. In DmC a lot of your combos involve stuff like pulling enemies with the whip or the Rake or doing those air combo II's. All of these are really slow moves. In DMC3 you don't have moves like that but the closest thing is Air Trick to get to enemies and it's way faster than the Angel pull in DmC (similar application). The Air Dash in DmC is super slow and you can't do it as close to the ground as you can a Star Rave. This is an example of some of the limitations that are in DmC that prevent you from speeding up the combat. In addition, the weapon swap itself is not completely instant like it is in DMC3... another major factor dictating the speed of the combat.
In DmC if you try to do enemy step/jump cancels too fast they don't come out properly but in DMC3 with something like Swing of Cerberus you can do those steps and attacks very fast while having them all hit.
Obviously to the untrained eye there isn't going to be much difference in the speeds if all you do is mash Triangle on the ground and occasionally jump around/roll. When you start fast cancelling that's when you start to see the difference in the game.
DMC4 is the fastest of the DMC games because of the potential for cancels is of the charts. On the fly style switch allows you to cancel anything into anything thanks to Royal Guard and if played like an expert you can play like a god. Even Nero is significantly faster than DmC's Dante because his fillers (Devil bringer, Table Hopper, DT cancel, Buster cancel) and cancels are much faster.
Now I know someone actually did a speed comparison between DMC4/DMC3 and DmC of the moves. While marginal, DMC3/DMC4 were actually faster in similar moves. I want to see if I can find that video.
First of all just simply comparing move frames and speed doesn't paint the picture of the game. In that regard there isn't much difference between let's say a Stinger in DMC3 and a Stinger in DmC. I did some speed comparisons between DMC3 and DMC4, some moves were faster in DMC3 (like Million Stab) while others were slower.
Generally where the speed of the game usually comes into play is the move fillers or the cancels used when it comes to combining moves. In DmC a lot of your combos involve stuff like pulling enemies with the whip or the Rake or doing those air combo II's. All of these are really slow moves. In DMC3 you don't have moves like that but the closest thing is Air Trick to get to enemies and it's way faster than the Angel pull in DmC (similar application). The Air Dash in DmC is super slow and you can't do it as close to the ground as you can a Star Rave. This is an example of some of the limitations that are in DmC that prevent you from speeding up the combat. In addition, the weapon swap itself is not completely instant like it is in DMC3... another major factor dictating the speed of the combat.
In DmC if you try to do enemy step/jump cancels too fast they don't come out properly but in DMC3 with something like Swing of Cerberus you can do those steps and attacks very fast while having them all hit.
Obviously to the untrained eye there isn't going to be much difference in the speeds if all you do is mash Triangle on the ground and occasionally jump around/roll. When you start fast cancelling that's when you start to see the difference in the game.
DMC4 is the fastest of the DMC games because of the potential for cancels is of the charts. On the fly style switch allows you to cancel anything into anything thanks to Royal Guard and if played like an expert you can play like a god. Even Nero is significantly faster than DmC's Dante because his fillers (Devil bringer, Table Hopper, DT cancel, Buster cancel) and cancels are much faster.
Now I know someone actually did a speed comparison between DMC4/DMC3 and DmC of the moves. While marginal, DMC3/DMC4 were actually faster in similar moves. I want to see if I can find that video.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
somesplace
Neo Member
I said pretty much the same thing in the last thread. The reaction to this game blows my mind a bit...
That portion is rather small even among the DMC fanbase. I think most DMC fans know about the stuff and have seen high level play or have at least completed the games on DMD mode so they have some competency at the games. However that's not just the people who make up the fanbase either. A lot of DMC fans just really like Dante's character and look... for them DmC is an auto turn off because of the design. There is also a sizable portion of the fanbase who is interested in the story lore and progression of the series, most of them don't like the direction of the series. Plus some were fans of the gothic + anime style of the series that is all but gone now.
Over the years the fanbase has expanded because more games have been released in the series each with a different appeal. The problem with DmC is that it appeals to neither the DMC1 fanbase (who loved the music, environments/atmosphere and enemy design) nor the DMC3/DMC4 fanbase (the stylish combo fans). At least DmC has some semblance of stylish combos in it but its essentially NOTHING like the original DMC. DmC is it's own entity and will most likely have it's own fanbase. There will be some overlap but I can see there being a bold line drawn between the OG DMC and DmC fanbase.
Came here to post the exact same thoughts. This game still looks as janky and unsatisfying as it always has been. Oh, and look, another new TERRIBLE enemy introduction. That blue force field girl looked so fucking boring and uninspired. "Nope, it's a fucking demon". Yeah, totally not classy. I swear, the enemy design continues to look like it's from some low-tier western action game studio. That was practically a Dante's Inferno enemy, maybe worse, I don't even know at this point. And yeah, that whip grab of his is TOTAL spaghetti noodle. I can't believe so few people see what we're talking about here. I don't think the majority of the supporters for this game have an eye for class and sophistication. I actually feel bad for those individuals, seriously.
Funchameleon
Banned
If I ever buy this it'll be at less than $10 on Steam in a moment of extreme weakness.
Toonami 99
Member
There are upgrades to make combos faster.
Gametrailers has a new video called Hitpoints DmC that shows some of the upgrade menu. If you have played the demo there is a white circle that fills as you kill enemies. That meter is used for getting faster combos or adding enemy step.
I dont know exactly how much faster the combos will be but the options are there.
check out the video. at gametrailer.com (cant link it cause its blocked at work)
Gametrailers has a new video called Hitpoints DmC that shows some of the upgrade menu. If you have played the demo there is a white circle that fills as you kill enemies. That meter is used for getting faster combos or adding enemy step.
I dont know exactly how much faster the combos will be but the options are there.
check out the video. at gametrailer.com (cant link it cause its blocked at work)
The Gametrailers video:
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/799g5d/dmc--devil-may-cry-hit-points----latter-day-saints
There wasn't anything in the video that suggests that combos get faster. You can upgrade them to increase their damage though and most likely moves like Stinger will gained increased range as it is a series standard. I guess some moves might be a bit faster like how Vergil's Helm Breaker/Starfall were made marginally faster/stronger with their LVL2 upgrades in DMC3SE but I don't think it will be that substantial.
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/799g5d/dmc--devil-may-cry-hit-points----latter-day-saints
There wasn't anything in the video that suggests that combos get faster. You can upgrade them to increase their damage though and most likely moves like Stinger will gained increased range as it is a series standard. I guess some moves might be a bit faster like how Vergil's Helm Breaker/Starfall were made marginally faster/stronger with their LVL2 upgrades in DMC3SE but I don't think it will be that substantial.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I dunno, they're both pretty good I guess. Vergil is the most fun to play as and DMC3 has a couple good bosses but I like Credo more. Both are pretty much a waste of my time when I'm not fighting one of half a dozen bosses, though. DMC1 was the best.
lowhighkang_LHK said:
Someone with more patience (and knowledge) than me can join them into a single, perfectly syncing gif, I ran into nothing but headaches trying to do that.
I didn't alter the timing of either move. I think it's kinda funny how they came out to same amount of frames(at 30fps, obviously). Maybe NT is paying attention, eh?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Someone with more patience (and knowledge) than me can join them into a single, perfectly syncing gif, I ran into nothing but headaches trying to do that.
I didn't alter the timing of either move. I think it's kinda funny how they came out to same amount of frames(at 30fps, obviously). Maybe NT is paying attention, eh?
It may be my browser but the DmC gif is way faster than it is in-game. Hell, it looks double the speed.
Edit: Ok, on my phone it loks about the same as in game. Still doesn't make a slight bit of difference as per Dahbombs post about cancels.
Both Opera and Chrome are running both gifs at double the speed. Firefox displays them correctly. You can see em how they look synced together in Opera, although at twice the speed for both games.
The speed of the slashes is almost the same but in real combat situation and in high level play no one actually lets the combo I end like that... neither in DMC4 nor in DmC. Unless you are mashing of course. That was basically the point I was making.
Make comparisons of Roulette Spin and Devil Bringers, that's where the difference becomes very apparent.
Make comparisons of Roulette Spin and Devil Bringers, that's where the difference becomes very apparent.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Isn't Nero noticeably slower than Dante to begin with, making that particular comparison less than ideal?
It's not meant to prove anything, it was done for funsies. Because you requested it:
Rebellion Combo A is three hits, how is that a better comparison?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
It's not meant to prove anything, it was done for funsies. Because you requested it:
Rebellion Combo A is three hits, how is that a better comparison?
DMC4 Roulette spin is faster?
Yeah. If it wasn't for the pauses when you connect in DmC I'd imagine they'd be about the same give or take a few frames.
To get a good idea of the speed, you would have to do the follow combo with Nero and DmC Dante:
/\, /\, Streak, Devil Bringer, Rising Hightime, /\, /\, Roulette Spin, Devil Bringer, /\, /\, /\, Devil Bringer, Helm Breaker.
Fairly basic combo and uses same moves for both characters but once you put it all together you will find that the DmC version starts to lag behind by the time the Nero version is completed.
There might be a problem with the /\, /\, Streak portion because that move is attached to Osiris and DmC Dante would have to switch to the weapon. In DMC3/DMC4 this wouldn't really matter match as the weapon switch would be buffered during the previous attack but there is some lag in the switch in DmC so some frames will be wasted after the 2nd Triangle to get Streak out.
Thanks for the gif. I always appreciate a person putting in work for greater knowledge.
/\, /\, Streak, Devil Bringer, Rising Hightime, /\, /\, Roulette Spin, Devil Bringer, /\, /\, /\, Devil Bringer, Helm Breaker.
Fairly basic combo and uses same moves for both characters but once you put it all together you will find that the DmC version starts to lag behind by the time the Nero version is completed.
There might be a problem with the /\, /\, Streak portion because that move is attached to Osiris and DmC Dante would have to switch to the weapon. In DMC3/DMC4 this wouldn't really matter match as the weapon switch would be buffered during the previous attack but there is some lag in the switch in DmC so some frames will be wasted after the 2nd Triangle to get Streak out.
Thanks for the gif. I always appreciate a person putting in work for greater knowledge.
If you compare the first 3 hits of Combo I DmC Dante to the whole of Combo I of DMC4 Dante it's pretty much the same. Also DmC Dante has the fastest Hightime (non rising version) out of all the DMC games but it's really the only move he does faster than in previous games.
But again... you don't really complete those strings unless you want to finish the combo right there and then. You would immediately cancel after the 2nd hit into Hightime and start stylin'.
But again... you don't really complete those strings unless you want to finish the combo right there and then. You would immediately cancel after the 2nd hit into Hightime and start stylin'.
No prob. That'd definitely be more interesting, I gots no capture card tho. You're probably right, DMC4 is the faster game anyway.
JonathanPower
Member
Yeah, especially the environments in DmC are so vastly inferior compared to the previous DMC games. Oh wait, they aren't.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
DMC4 stores all of its moves in a bunch small 60fps WMV video files in the installation directory(for when you see them in the menu). The DmC demo does the exact same thing, someone happened to rip them all to youtube. I made the gifs from both sources.
Oh cool didn't know someone had ripped the DmC ones on YT.
JonathanPower
Member
Sure they are, I didn't notice spelling errors on the words that appear on the walls of the environment.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Your doing the grammar-nazi thing again.
Once again however, you are wrong.
A omitted or repeated word is not a spelling error.
Last time I entertain such foolishness. Its a bloody message board post, not a final year dissertation.
Riposte
Member
Not quite. There are plenty of games which you go overboard on, some of which I don't even care for.
I agree, though I think I like DMC3 and DMC4 more than you do.
The gif with Nero's taunting makes me lament the removal of taunts. There are taunts in Anarchy Reigns, but I can't recall if they exist in someway in MGR. Would be weird lol.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
ya'll niggas always be trippin in these DmC threads, man
Not including taunts is another real shame, especially for when you want to exploit demon dodge. Weirdly enough Dante taunts/speaks on his own sometimes. Meh. Dumb decision by NT.
Yeah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wAPY30ZQmE
No hidden moves or nothing, though.
Yeah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wAPY30ZQmE
No hidden moves or nothing, though.