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DNA testing in Texas gives doctors a new dilemma - discovering incest

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G

Gaborn

Member
Houston doctors are reporting that the newest generation of DNA testing, now in wide use, is revealing many previously missed incest cases that raise difficult legal and ethical questions.

In a letter in the British medical journal The Lancet today, Baylor College of Medicine geneticists advise hospitals to begin grappling with the issues that arise from the testing, which can unexpectedly show a patient was conceived through so-called "first-degree" familial relationships — father-daughter, mother-son or brother-sister.

"Hospitals that work with this sort of testing need to become more familiar with dealing with these kind of situations because they're going to be seeing them more often," Dr. Arthur Beaudet, Baylor's chairman of molecular and human genetics and one of the letter's authors, said in an interview. "We hope our letter will jump-start the process by which institutions put together guidelines."

Beaudet wrote in the letter that "clinicians uncovering a likely incestuous relationship may be legally required to report it to child protection services and, potentially, law enforcement officials" since the pregnancy might have occurred "in the setting of sexual abuse."

The letter was prompted by a Baylor laboratory's discoveries that developmental disorders in a number of pediatric patients were caused by incestuous relations not previously disclosed to doctors.

The testing is done to find the disorder's genetic basis, typically involving mutations, deletions or duplications. But large blocks of identical DNA are evidence the child's parentage involved first-degree relatives.

Legal concerns

Children born to first-degree relatives have a developmental disability about half the time, said Beaudet.

Baylor began using the new test about six months ago. During that time, Beaudet said, the lab has seen evidence of incest fewer than 10 times.

Beaudet said the test is now being used by the nation's 20 to 30 largest medical centers.

These centers and private labs routinely get blood samples shipped to them for testing, he said.

Sex between first-degree relatives is illegal throughout the country, though it is a misdemeanor in Texas and rarely reported when both parties are adults.

Though doctors are required to report suspicions of child abuse, Beaudet said, their obligations are less clear when the mother is an adult and protected by doctor-patient confidentiality.

A committee of Baylor, Texas Children's Hospital and Ben Taub General Hospital representatives is almost finished crafting a policy about the issues raised. Chairwoman Amy McGuire, a bioethicist, said these issues include consent, results disclosure and reporting.

Reactions to letter

McGuire said she had not previously heard discussion of the issue among her counterparts, but she dismissed the idea the issues raised are new.

"Certainly, the concept of incest gets people a little on edge," said McGuire. "But we do a lot of diagnostic tests that have the potential to show possible evidence of child abuse, the most dramatic ethical issue raised by this testing's occasional discoveries of incest."

William Winslade, a University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston ethicist, applauded Baylor's letter, saying it's important for institutions to set guidelines about how much disclosure is necessary for tests that have such serious legal, ethical and psychological consequences.

Winslade said he's "inclined to think that more rather than less disclosure is appropriate."

Tests showing 25 percent of identical DNA are evidence of parentage by first-degree relatives. The percentage drops to 12.5 percent for uncle-niece relationships and about 6 percent for first cousins.

Beaudet said he is not interested in judging the latter two cases, which are not taboo in some societies.

Beaudet says he expects the letter will be criticized for making public what researchers in the field knew was occurring before they had the evidence to prove it. He said institutions should utilize "what this new technology is bringing into the open."

"I've been in this field for 40 years so this is no surprise to me," said Beaudet. "But it is an opportunity to open people's eyes to what goes on and discourage the problem."
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Story Here
 
L

luxarific

Nork unification denier
The percentage drops to 12.5 percent for uncle-niece relationships and about 6 percent for first cousins.

Beaudet said he is not interested in judging the latter two cases, which are not taboo in some societies.
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I know first-cousin marriages are pretty common, but uncle-niece relationships? That was news to me. Apparently the latter was (is?) accepted in South India and the Moroccan Jewish community (according to Google).
 
C

ConfusingJazz

Member
luxarific said:
I know first-cousin marriages are pretty common, but uncle-niece relationships? That was news to me. Apparently the latter was (is?) accepted in South India and the Moroccan Jewish community (according to Google).
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Royalty loves that shit.

eYiBb.png
 
S

Shanadeus

Banned
samus i am said:
Where is incest defense force gaf?
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Right here.

I believe they're doing the right thing to report "first-degree" familial relationships that are not between similar aged siblings precisely for the reason they bring up - that the relationship might have started out from a very young age or been partly created due to authoritarian pressure from a parent.
 
K

Kettch

Member
Those identical DNA percentages are interesting. Parent-Offspring relationships have a guaranteed 25% average, since the son/daughter has 50% of their DNA, but a brother-sister relationship could vary from identical twins (except that they would be the same sex) to a very unlikely completely unrelated DNA-wise brother and sister.
 
Y

ymmv

Banned
ConfusingJazz said:
Royalty loves that shit.

eYiBb.png
Click to expand...

You can immediately recognize Habsburg royalty by their elongated chin.

In King Charles was manifested centuries of tainted Habsburg genes. Charles’ “Habsburg lip” was so pronounced, he was unable to chew food. His tongue was so large, he was unable to speak intelligibly. He was so severely mentally handicapped, he was never given an education or taught to read. By the time he reached his thirties, Charles’ was fully bald, epileptic, and unable to walk. Towards the end of his 35 year reign, the Spanish people began to believe that he was possessed by the devil, and so Charles II became known as “The Bewitched”. A marriage was arranged for him, but he was physically incapable of fatherhood. When Charles II died heirless in 1770, the Habsburg bloodline died with him. (via)
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--

Damn, too late!
 
C

ConfusingJazz

Member
Sickboy007 said:
the result:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Carlos-II-de-Espana_1661-1700.JPG[IMG][/QUOTE]

Leading to one of my favorite quotes on wikipedia:

[quote]Charles II was "short, lame, epileptic, senile, and completely bald before 35, he was always on the verge of death, but repeatedly baffled Christendom by continuing to live."[/quote]
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Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Pandaman said:
geez, every single child wants to fuck their sister, but atleast wrap it up first.
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Pandaman
Everything is moe to me
(Today, 05:08 PM)
Reply | Quote
 
M

mj1108

Member
Can we please just get rid of Texas? Seems like not a day goes by there's a story of some kind that comes out of there that keeps reinforcing it to be one of the biggest shitholes in this country.
 
P

pirata

Member
Fisticuffs said:
gross TEXAS gross! you better be careful or you'll surpass Florida as sickest state.. well maybe not.
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Texas hate force is summoned, even at the slightest mention of the state's name!


"Since it was researchers in Houston who sent the letter to the British journal, that must mean that this only applies to Texas, right?"




Did you even fucking READ the article?




EDIT:


mj1108 said:
Can we please just get rid of Texas? Seems like not a day goes by there's a story of some kind that comes out of there that keeps reinforcing it to be one of the biggest shitholes in this country.
Click to expand...



Wow, already a post about "getting rid of Texas," and this article isn't even really about Texas! Let's take wages on how long it takes before someone suggests the killing of myself, my family, and everyone else who just happens to live in Texas! I bet next page, although it only took about a half-dozen posts last thread.
 
C

ConfusingJazz

Member
mj1108 said:
Can we please just get rid of Texas? Seems like not a day goes by there's a story of some kind that comes out of there that keeps reinforcing it to be one of the biggest shitholes in this country.
Click to expand...

Your state is insignificant.
Thanks,
Texas
 
W

Walshicus

Member
You know, I'm actually quite interested in the science behind genetic disease caused by inbreeding. Anyone up to scratch?
 
Y

ymmv

Banned
ConfusingJazz said:
Leading to one of my favorite quotes on wikipedia:
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The Habsburg family are a source of wonderful quotes. Here's one about Maria Theresa of Spain, Charles II aunt who married the king of France.

As time passed, Marie-Thérèse grew more docile and the King continued and increased his romantic adventures. She tolerated Madame de Montespan, perhaps because La Montespan's malicious wit left her lost and baffled, but Marie-Thérèse was also too pious and too adoring of her husband to openly resent the position in which she was placed by his avowed infidelities. ( ... )Eventually, the Queen acted with dignity and did not create scenes at Court. In return, the King left her to her own devices, with her chocolate, Spanish maids and collection of dwarfs.
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Z

ZAK

Member
Sir Fragula said:
You know, I'm actually quite interested in the science behind genetic disease caused by inbreeding. Anyone up to scratch?
Click to expand...
Your genes suck. Spread them out so they don't do too much damage.
 
C

ConfusingJazz

Member
ymmv said:
The Habsburg family are a source of wonderful quotes. Here's one about Maria Theresa of Spain, Charles II aunt who married the king of France.
Click to expand...

There seriously needs to be an HBO mini series of something on the Habsburgs. They formed one of the largest and most powerful empires in the world, as well as one of the most fucked up families in history.

We haven't even touched Joanna the Mad yet. When a Habsburg is called "the Mad," you know you are in for some crazy shit.
 
W

Walshicus

Member
ConfusingJazz said:
We haven't even touched Joanna the Mad yet. When a Habsburg is called "the Mad," you know you are in for some crazy shit.
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She wasn't really "mad" though; she was the target of a number of rumours brought about through political rivalry.


ZAK said:
Your genes suck. Spread them out so they don't do too much damage.
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Right, thanks for that "insight"...
 
D

dvolovets

Member
Sir Fragula said:
You know, I'm actually quite interested in the science behind genetic disease caused by inbreeding. Anyone up to scratch?
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I'm actually taking genetics at my university right now. Very interesting subject.

As far as disease caused by inbreeding, it has to do with both a limited gene pool and the fact that many people are "carriers" of diseases that aren't physically expressed. They're known as heterozygotes (i.e., they have a copy of a "good" gene as well as a "bad" gene, with the dominant one prevailing). However, if two heterozygotes have children, there's a probability that the recessive gene will manifest in the child. Here's an example. Let's say that, for the purpose of the argument, a husband and wife are both carriers for epilepsy. Presence of epilepsy is represented by "e". So their genetic arrangement for that characteristic would be:

Ee and Ee

Where "E" is the dominant allele (type of expression) and "e" is the recessive allele. Think of it as an on-off switch. However, the only way for epilepsy to manifest is for two "e" genes to come together. In other words, whenever an "E" is present, it overrides everything else. If these two people have a child, there are four possible gene arrangements (since genes assort randomly):

EE, Ee, Ee, and ee (try drawing out a Punnet square if you're confused -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square)

In any case, if the gene pool is constricted, there's a good chance that many who are within it are carriers of a disease. So in this case, there's a 1/4 chance that a child will have epilepsy and a 1/2 chance that the child will be a carrier. Of course, this is really simplified, but it gives you an idea of the factors involved.
 
C

ConfusingJazz

Member
Sir Fragula said:
She wasn't really "mad" though; she was the target of a number of rumours brought about through political rivalry.



Right, thanks for that "insight"...
Click to expand...

I have heard that, but like Caligula, the propaganda is just so much more interesting.
 
M

Masta_Killah

Member
mj1108 said:
Can we please just get rid of Texas? Seems like not a day goes by there's a story of some kind that comes out of there that keeps reinforcing it to be one of the biggest shitholes in this country.
Click to expand...

Not before I get a taste of Texas bbq!

8Gdni.jpg
 
Z

Zzoram

Member
"Sex between first-degree relatives is illegal throughout the country, though it is a misdemeanor in Texas and rarely reported when both parties are adults."

Texas, where incest is sorta okay.
 
G

Guevara

Member
Zzoram said:
"Sex between first-degree relatives is illegal throughout the country, though it is a misdemeanor in Texas and rarely reported when both parties are adults."

Texas, where incest is sorta okay.
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In other words, marijuana possession is worse than first-degree incest in Texas.
 
NekoFever

NekoFever

Member
ymmv said:
The Habsburg family are a source of wonderful quotes. Here's one about Maria Theresa of Spain, Charles II aunt who married the king of France.
Click to expand...
I was reading that and wondering what was funny about it. And then I got to the end...
 
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