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[Rhindle]

Sorry if posted ...

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/04/14/study-publishers-shouldnt-release-demos-just-trailers/

Demos may be the best way to find out if you like a game, but releasing one might not be in a publisher’s best financial interest, according to a study discussed at last week’s MI6 video game marketing conference.

.....

While demos may be effective at producing word-of-mouth, the EEDAR found that the highest selling games on both Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 produced buzz via Xbox Live Marketplace and PlayStation Network with trailers alone.

......

Though demos have become commonplace a few weeks ahead of a game’s release, the EEDAR found that trailers are more effective than hands-on time with the product. Short and Zatkin actually recommended publishers start producing demos only after release to avoid interference with the final weeks of polish.

I think it's very possible that in some cases demos hurt game sales. For a highly anticipated game that people were going to buy anyway, you run the risk of some people getting turned off by the demo for whatever reason and canceling their purchase.

That having been said, the study looks pretty flawed ... they're assuming that games that don't get demos and those that do are all of equal caliber. However, high profile games like GTA and Gears of War often don't get demos, and hence would skew the "no demos" category higher.

 

[IzumiK]

And there's also just being satisfied with the demo.

It's like people taking swag from a fair and never even looking at the name of the booth.

People are just cheap. 8P

 

[Agent Ironside]

Considering some of the crap demos that are out there, not surprised.

 

[p_xavier]

I know The Simpsons Game demo turned me off. But after buying the game, it's the worst level in the game. Many of my friends refused to buy the game from the demo alone.

 

[Chris R]

Considering some of the crap demos that are out there, not surprised.

/thread

 

[Psychotext]

That having been said, the study looks pretty flawed ... they're assuming that games that don't get demos and those that do are all of equal caliber. However, high profile games like GTA and Gears of War often don't get demos, and hence would skew the "no demos" category higher.

This. Massively flawed.

 

[goldenpp72]

if the demo is good it sells a game, if not, it doesn't. Look at bioshock.

 

[jman2050]

If the game sucks or your demo sucks, I can see the truth in that statement. But if your game is awesome I highly doubt demos are going to hurt more than help.

 

[Jackson]

However, high profile games like GTA and Gears of War often don't get demos, and hence would skew the "no demos" category higher.

Also matters if it's a new IP or a franchise, franchises can live off of previous buy in. Same with licenses or sports titles.

Too many factors to lump everything in together, but an interesting study none the less

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I know The Simpsons Game demo turned me off. But after buying the game, it's the worst level in the game. Many of my friends refused to buy the game from the demo alone.

Demos are marketing tools. Some people get it like EA with Fight Night 3 and 2K with Bioshock, but I too didn't like the Simpsons mainly because the control was wonky. Halo never needed a demo nor does a GTA or a Madden. I don't think this is that good of a way to describe this.

 

[Pachael]

I think it's generally true that if you release a bad demo, you won't get sales no matter how good or bad the product is. It's probably better to release a nice glossy trailer and let people buy the game from hype, and then trap!

 

[Narag]

And there's also just being satisfied with the demo.

It's like people taking swag from a fair and never even looking at the name of the booth.

People are just cheap. 8P

This is a good point. I've seen so many friends online playing Shadowrun or Frontline demos but never the actual game. It was all they needed.

 

[somuchwater]

Yeah, second the 'this is flawed' sentiment above. Why would a game like Gears need a demo when it gets such massive hype/critical acclaim? I just hope that game developers don't listen to this and start thinking that demos will hurt sales - especially for middle-of-the-road games like Haze.

 

[Zombie James]

Make a shit demo, you get negative impressions. Shock. Happened to me recently with Condemned 2.

 

[calder]

Quality of demo - and the game - is a huge factor, I can think of at least a couple games I was sorta interested in where a meh but probably very representative demo turned me off. Maybe if I didn't play the demo I would have picked it up on impulse. Great for the consumer, not always so much for the publisher, it must be rare that a great demo comes for an upcoming great game that isn't already sure to be a huge hit (Bioshock comes to mind).

I don't think ppl would normally be satisfied with a demo unless the game wasn't compelling enough to make them buy it anyway. It's not like on the PC side where there were some pretty big demos released that allowed for hours and hours of replay. Hell I played one of the AoE demos *forever*. :lol

 

[Agent Ironside]

I remember playing the bf2 PC demo forever.

 

[fistfulofmetal]

If Bioshock didn't get a demo, it wouldn't have sold 1.5 million.

 

[Haunted]

eh, that study isn't very convincing.

If well done, I'm pretty sure they're helping, not hurting. Fight Night, Lost Planet, Bioshock etc. all did it right.

There are plenty of bad demos out there hurting sales, though. Timeshift's was horrible. Simpsons Game is a good example of a bad demo not hurting sales (because the casuals that bought it don't bother with demos, most likely).

 

[BoilersFan23]

I know The Simpsons Game demo turned me off. But after buying the game, it's the worst level in the game. Many of my friends refused to buy the game from the demo alone.

That's what people say about Sega Superstars Tennis. Many of my friends make fun of me for playing it because they didn't like the demo, but I ended up finding the full version way better and it's becoming one of my favorite games (I got the PS3 version). Some games a demo does help (especially ones next to no one knows about that showcases something unique), but many times, having a demo can make you less likely to buy a game (one reason I rarely purchase XBLA games is because I play a demo, and instantly feel compelled to not buy it due to not enjoying it much or deciding to just play the demo). On PSN for example, when a few games didn't have a demo (along with their low price), I was a bit compelled to buy anyway just because that was the only way I could play the game (like for Everyday Shooter). Let's just say I've been satisfied around 75% of the time (Only thing I regret is LocoRoco, flOw, and some PS1 games, although I forgot they wouldn't hold up now).

 

[C4Lukins]

In the 360's case, they typically do not release demos for their bigger games. Correct me if I am wrong, but Halo 3, COD4, Gears of War, Oblivion, Mass Effect, and Assassins Creed did not have demos. When a game has a massive marketing budget, I guess they really do not see the need when all it can do is hurt them. For games like Bioshock, Crackdown, and Viva Pinata though, these are games that had little mainstream recognition so good demos probably helped them out. I think it can only hurt a game when it is highly anticipated and the demo is shit. I think these numbers are going to be a bit skewed just because the bigger releases that the companies know are going to sell tend not to have a demo.

 

[Ranger X]

Bad game or badly made demo = lose sales.

Well done demo or good game = gained sales.

It's pretty much the natural selection going on. No worries. Bring in demos.

 

[Markster]

Wake Island (BF1942), and Beach (RtCW) agree.

It was years before I actually purchased either game.

I invested god-knows how many hours into each of those demos.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

In the 360's case, they typically do not release demos for their bigger games. Correct me if I am wrong, but Halo 3, COD4, Gears of War, Oblivion, Mass Effect, and Assassins Creed did not have demos. When a game has a massive marketing budget, I guess they really do not see the need when all it can do is hurt them. For games like Bioshock, Crackdown, and Viva Pinata though, these are games that had little mainstream recognition so good demos probably helped them out. I think it can only hurt a game when it is highly anticipated and the demo is shit. I think these numbers are going to be a bit skewed just because the bigger releases that the companies know are going to sell tend not to have a demo.

Well Halo 3 and CoD4 had the betas.

 

[Core407]

Didn't the FNR3 demo for 360 increase preorders by 3x?

 

[The Faceless Master]

their study seemed like a good idea, in theory...

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Didn't the FNR3 demo for 360 increase preorders by 3x?

5x

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/grandtheftauto4/news.html?sid=6149698

12:18: Moore moves subject to Xbox Live Marketplace--18 million downloads so far. As of today, more than 1,000 pieces of "downloadable content" are available. Moore says publishers like Marketplace, since it changes the way people buy and play the game. He also says Fight Night Round 3 demo led to a fivefold increase in preorders of the game.

 

[Core407]

5x

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/grandtheftauto4/news.html?sid=6149698

Damn, 5x. Eitherway, demos giving a negative impact on sales is just silly. Most demos do a great job of giving the player a taste of the game and yet making it clear theres a lot more to the full game and worth the purchase.

 

[Teddman]

Demos can help game sales big time if they are distributed right.

Just ask Zone of the Enders.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

I think it can only hurt a game when it is highly anticipated and the demo is shit.

I honestly wonder how Burnout would have done if they never had a demo.

 

[NeonBlade]

The condemned demo is great for a teaser, I'm actually interested in a purchase.

However, Burnout Paradise demo helped me to save $60.00

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I honestly wonder how Burnout would have done if they never had a demo.

I wonder how Burnout would have done if it had included aspects that made Burnout the series it is or was.

 

[Core407]

I wonder how Burnout would have done if it had included aspects that made Burnout the series it is or was.

Probably not as well as it did....?

 

[Meier]

Wouldn't this also be skewed since the early games probably didn't have demos as the PSN wasn't very full-fledged at that point?

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Probably not as well as it did....?

Crash mode should be in the game. Even then, I'm a huge fan of the game so I bought it.

 

[Aeon712]

If it wasn't for demo's I would have bought Uncharted and Burnout.

 

[HokieJoe]

Demo's have definitely sold me games. Demo's have definitely made me avoid games.

 

[HugBasket]

Now show the chart with people who are happy with their purchase.

 

[Witchfinder General]

Unless it's a JRPG or a stupidly big blockbuster game I generally rely on demos to determine whether I'll purchase a given game or not. If a game I'm interested in doesn't have a demo out for it I'll usually pass.

 

[rjcc]

This is stupid. Of course a game like Gears or Halo or Assassin's Creed with a massive marketing campaign and well publicized brand don't need a demo to get attention and sell well, but not all games can do that.

 

[Shockgamer]

I don't think I'd enjoy a world without demos. No Saints Row, no Crackdown. No Fight Night Round 3. No Gitaroo Man? No Ridge Racer Type 4!?!?

Everybody should be forced to put their money (and game) where there mouth is, imo. Wii is the last hold out of making consumers buy games blind.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

a-hahaha...that graph is hilarious. know how many games i didnt buy because of the demo? a lot.

devs would do well not to release demos, imo. gamers may bitch, but sales will speak for themselves.

sissiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiies

 

[Jive Turkey]

if the demo is good it sells a game, if not, it doesn't. Look at bioshock.

This is exactly it for me. I wouldn't have purchased it day one (with my 360 in for repairs) if I hadn't loved the demo. I was interested before but the demo sold me on it.

In fact demos have sold more games to me than not.

 

[Kusagari]

This study is skewered. The best selling games don't NEED demos. Gears of War/Halo 3/Assassins Creed sold on their marketing alone and that effects a much wider audience than a demo could ever hope to.

 

[Core407]

This study is skewered. The best selling games don't NEED demos. Gears of War/Halo 3/Assassins Creed sold on their marketing alone and that effects a much wider audience than a demo could ever hope to.

Well no demo can reach the audience that marketing can.

 

[Alex]

Demos are rarely done well enough to be any form of a good marketing tool. Blue Dragon's for example, made the game out to be significantly worse than it was.

Bioshock's was pretty lovely, speaking again in recent terms. Probably played it the most for a demo aside from like the old AOE2 demo and the FFVII demo that came with Tobal back in the day. Man, I was such a fan tart for FF after IV and VI that I fuckin bought Tobal as a 13 year old for the FFVII demo.

 

[aeolist]

It's skewed, but I'd still believe this is the case. Most games suck and demos let people find that out.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Though demos have become commonplace a few weeks ahead of a game’s release, the EEDAR found that trailers are more effective than hands-on time with the product. Short and Zatkin actually recommended publishers start producing demos only after release to avoid interference with the final weeks of polish.

Bingo.

I've always thought this would be a better approach for developers. Save the demo for a few months after release. Spend all your time before release making the actual game as good as it can be. You might not have to patch the game right away if you do this. You might also get a sales bump out of it by renewing interest in the game amongst buyers who haven't picked it up yet too.

And the quality of demos will probably be better too. If Resistance had a demo that showed what the game could really be like, like in the later levels, I think it would have sold even better on PS3 than it did at the time. They did a better job with the Ratchet demo, but the demo still didn't show quite the level of polish as the finished game. Most demos don't show the game in their best light due to their "early build" status.

Of course, as a gamer, I like demos before release, but I can totally understand if developers make a business decision to wait until after release. A post-release demo is far better than no demo at all.

Of course with online games, there will always be a strong case to be made for the public Beta.

 

[Core407]

Demos are rarely done well enough to be any form of a good marketing tool. Blue Dragon's for example, made the game out to be significantly worse than it was.

Bioshock's was pretty lovely, speaking again in recent terms. Probably played it the most for a demo aside from like the old AOE2 demo and the FFVII demo that came with Tobal back in the day. Man, I was such a fan tart for FF after IV and VI that I fuckin bought Tobal as a 13 year old for the FFVII demo.

Demos would have more of an impact if they were released much earlier than the game does, but then other issues arise. I think FNR3 did so well was because it was a demo of a relatively known franchise that came out at a time where not too many demos were on XBL.

 

[Mau ®]

I would believe this. There have been few demos that make wanna go out and buy the game.

The Shadow of the Colussus demo that was packed in OPM (RIP) convinced me that I had to buy the game.

Most demos dont grab you from the start, so while the full retail game may be worth your time, the demo makes you feel like it doesnt. I'd say a demo CAN sell a game but I think pubs and devs should make sure the demo is good first. Which is something that they dont pay attention to, its just something they feel they gotta do, for marketing's sake.

 

[Mrbob]

In the 360's case, they typically do not release demos for their bigger games. Correct me if I am wrong, but Halo 3, COD4, Gears of War, Oblivion, Mass Effect, and Assassins Creed did not have demos. When a game has a massive marketing budget, I guess they really do not see the need when all it can do is hurt them. For games like Bioshock, Crackdown, and Viva Pinata though, these are games that had little mainstream recognition so good demos probably helped them out. I think it can only hurt a game when it is highly anticipated and the demo is shit. I think these numbers are going to be a bit skewed just because the bigger releases that the companies know are going to sell tend not to have a demo.

Seriously. This study is a joke.