Do you believe Sony and Microsoft swapped positions and Sony has become anti-consumer? (details in OP)

Do you believe Sony and Microsoft swapped positions on anti-consumer polices second half of gen?


  • Total voters
    205

Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
Aug 24, 2016
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#1
It's the end of the gen, and looking back Microsoft clearly entered the gen with consumer-questionable policies, although not all were "anti" consumer as some exaggerated for clicks, they did, however, have a few actual "anti-consumer" polices, some of which they did not really remove or change until around 2015.

From late 2015 till now, I've seen a common statement through this and many other boards and YouTube videos of Sony shifting back to their PS3 status, and starting to swap positions with Microsoft on anti-consumer policies, while the latter has become more consumer-friendly.

Some common examples I've seen rage from restrictions on cross-play, Friend gift restrictions, Rejecting services like EA access, odd contracts for indie devs, and recently, censor-ship of Japanese games, outside and inside Japan, among others.

This has led to the claim that arrogant Sony has returned, and that Sony believed it can get away with anti-consumer policies because of their position. The question is do you believe this is true that Sony has become Anti-Consumer? Are some of these people across message boards, comments, and videos exaggerating how anti-consumer Sony have been the last 2+ years? Or have Microsoft and Sony really swapped places?

I mean it is true that since 2015 Microsoft has been a lot more transparent and have showered its fans and skeptics with several consumer-friendly features and the powerful One X, and in comparison, Sony is heading in the opposite direction. However, do you think Sony has embraced anti-consumerism?

Below is a list from Era:

  • Blocking cross-platform play with other consoles (including permamently and irreversably locking your Epic account to PS4 if you've ever played any Epic game there)
  • Dismissing backwards compatibility with claim that "gamers don't actually want it" (at the same time [mid-2017] Microsoft reported that almost 50% of their users tried backwards compatibility on Xbox One and logged over 508 million hours of gameplay, this May the number passed 1 billion)
  • Blocking third-party subscription services like EA Access, claiming they're "not a good value for PlayStation consumers" (EA Access currently offers 50+ full games and more stuff for five bucks a month)
  • Severely gimping Bethesda's mod support in Skyrim and Fallout 4 (Sony bans custom models, color patterns, scripts, video and audio files and much more - basically everything that's used in 99% of mods)
  • Censoring Japanese games, within or outside Japan.
Below is a post from Reddit:

Backwards Compatibility
Now, let me start by saying that I understand the technical challenges that likely stand in the way of PS3 backwards compatibility on the PS4. Unless others can qualitatively explain that their position that the PS4 isn’t up to the task of emulating PS3 hardware, I’m going to believe them on this.
However, PS1 and PS2 backwards compatibility is a whole other issue. It’s been discussed many times that the PS2 classics on PS4 run in a software emulator, one that could easily support all disc-based PS2 titles. My PSvita and my PS3 can easily play back PS1 games in emulation, both through the PSone classics program and disc-based on the PS3. There is no good reason for the PS4 to not support backwards compatibility for PS1 and PS2 games.
PS1 games on disc and through the PSone Classics program should have been supported on the PS4 since day one. No excuses there. But it wasn’t there on launch day, and there is no good excuse why it still isn’t a feature.
For PS2 games, let me be a bit more blunt. The fact that the PS2 classics run in a software emulator means the fact that the PS4 doesn’t support any form of backwards compatibility for PS2 games is complete fucking bullshit. The emulator is there, the classics are proof it works, and there is ZERO reason that it cannot be opened to other games. Sure, it’s nice that they’re updating these classic PS2 games to be digital releases with support for cloud saves and trophies (and this format does allow them to address emulator bugs on a game-by-game basis), but that doesn’t mean a local emulator cannot be enabled.
This needed to be addressed years ago, and it wasn’t. Now Sony needs to answer for this.
PS Now
I don’t have a problem with the idea of this service, I just want to bitch that this is the go to answer for Sony on backwards compatibility. There are even rumors that classic titles from PS1 and PS2 will likely come to the service, further strengthening that argument for Sony. This is not backwards compatibility. This is a streaming service, and its usefulness is directly tied to the nature of your network conditions. Internet speed, congestion and data cap all play into this services viability for us gamers. Sony needs to begin addressing this as a service that works for some gamers, not as their answer for backwards compatibility.
Cross-Play
Let me start by saying that while I don’t agree with Sony’s position on cross-play regarding Xbox One and Switch, I do understand the business reasons behind the decision. It’s a very flimsy argument, but it is an argument. We should also remember that Sony doesn’t seem to be against the idea of cross-play, just when it benefits their competitors. Remember that PS4 has supported cross-play with PC and mobile, so that is something.
But Sony needs to recognize the trend. More and more games are supporting cross-platform play. Microsoft has made a huge push in this arena with Play Anywhere, and pretty much every first-party title from them supports the feature. Even some third-party games are being released on the Windows store to support this feature. And with play anywhere, Microsoft has pushed cross-play.
Now, this is to Microsoft’s benefit. It expands the player base that Xbox gamers have access to in multiplayer titles, a really good thing considering the platform’s lower sales. This is why I understand how it’s not in Sony’s business interests to support the feature. PC and mobile aren’t really going to affect their hardware sales, but Xbox and Switch will.
Now, I don’t personally think enough games support cross-play that their position makes sense. People aren’t choosing a console based on Fortnite or Rocket League. Sony’s first-party lineup still sells their consoles, and the larger player base in games that don’t support cross-play like COD and Destiny. Now, one could make the argument that if Sony supports cross-play, more multiplayer games may begin to supporting it. But I personally don’t see that happening, as it would require every multiplayer game to have mandatory account creation and the developers/publishers would have to take on many of the server hosting responsibilities, rather than relying on Sony and Microsoft for those features.
I don’t understand why Sony hasn’t at least begun allowing this on game-by-game basis, but they haven’t. And their answers on the question of why have not been good enough.
Fortnite
This whole Fortnite thing inspired this post and it’s total bullshit. This wouldn’t have blown up had the game simply lacked support for PS4-Switch cross-play. But locking an entire Epic Games account from being compatible with the Switch version of the game because it is linked to a PSN account is inexcusable.
Sony has no room here. Nothing they can come up with is good enough to excuse prevent players from playing a cross-platform game on another platform. And this only seems to apply to the Switch. My epic games account is linked to PC, mobile and Xbox with no issues. I only play the game on PC, but I would be unable to use my account on a Switch because I’ve linked my PSN account. And unlinking your account still doesn’t fix the problem. Your account is permanently inaccessible on Switch if it’s been connected to PSN, and some users are reporting lost progression as a result of unlinking the accounts.
I don’t understand what Sony was thinking here. It’s not the right hill to die on. The outcome of this is clear: Sony will have to capitulate and remove the restriction on Epic accounts attached to PSN accounts being used on Switch. They don’t have any option there. The backlash was quick and harsh, and there isn’t a single defender. Sony might be able to hang on to their position on cross-play for a little longer, but Microsoft is going to push hard into that going into the next generation and Sony will be forced to answer for it.
Sorry for the long rant, but we have to stop allowing Sony to get away with these blatantly anti-consumer positions. Backwards compatibility. Cross-play. PSnow as an alternative to backcompat. And this Fortnite nonsense are just the most egregious. And it’s time for Sony to stop.
 
Jun 30, 2013
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#3
Sony have made a few questionable decisions but I think it’s way to early given the goodwill that they have earned this gen to choose a side other than no, or neutral. Console gaming almost took a huge turn for the worse at the start of this gen thanks to Microsoft, so perhaps the question should be have Microsoft really changed? Or has any company at all?
 
Likes: SynTha1
Jan 26, 2016
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#7
They definitely haven't reached ps3 levels of arrogance. People either a misremembering or never followed Sony in those days.

They we're literally disputing facts like there were ps3s sitting on store shelves and they said it's false.

They have had several boneheaded comments from some reps that made me roll my eyes but their content and output is still solid.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#8
Sony has done nothing wrong this generation, so I can't even vote on this poll. I wanted great games to play on PS4, they gave it to me.....I have nothing to complain of, my purchase was justified many times over...….If anything, I just have one request, just keep on doing what they did this gen.....
 
Feb 3, 2017
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#12
Actions speak louder than words. Microsoft has done absolutely nothing this entire console generation to win me back. If the exclusive war continues to slant heavily for Sony, they can just as soon spit in my face and I'm still giving them my money.

Does anybody remember Microsoft's 'here's a kinect you don't want for 100$ more' sentiment?

Is Sony being arrogant or is Microsoft just silent from getting their ass handed to them for the last 5 years of bad business decisions. I felt the same way about the Wii U and Nintendo has bounced back quite well, I really hope Microsoft improves.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#13
Microsoft is the most consumer friendly now. Sony is the same not bad or good. Nintendo is the most anti consumer
Has MS given away free XBOX consoles that I don't know about? Did they release a bevy of great first party titles that I'm not aware of?.....Hey! if they please let me know, I want in.....As far as I'm concerned, I can purchase the hardware ":just give me great games", but if a manufacturer can give me a free console and a great bevy of first party games...I'd definitely call that PRO-consumer.....I would be on that train....
 
Likes: SynTha1

Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
Aug 24, 2016
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#14
Does anybody remember Microsoft's 'here's a kinect you don't want for 100$ more' sentiment?
Actually considering how popular kinect was at the time, i can't really blame them for thinking that would work. The only issue with kinect, before they fixed it, was it was originally require to even turn on the system. Now that was anti-consumer.
 

JohnnyFootball

The Last of Us may be third person, but it is hardly third person.
Jan 20, 2014
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#16
Actions speak louder than words. Microsoft has done absolutely nothing this entire console generation to win me back. If the exclusive war continues to slant heavily for Sony, they can just as soon spit in my face and I'm still giving them my money.

Does anybody remember Microsoft's 'here's a kinect you don't want for 100$ more' sentiment?

Is Sony being arrogant or is Microsoft just silent from getting their ass handed to them for the last 5 years of bad business decisions. I felt the same way about the Wii U and Nintendo has bounced back quite well, I really hope Microsoft improves.
MS has done a lot to improve things, but until they improve their first party support, Sony will be the best. Gamepass is not, but not anywhere near as impressive as I thought it would be.

However, due to the rise in digital media I do not believe Sony can get away with a lack of BC next gen.
 
Nov 8, 2013
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#17
my thoughts exactly...Xbox will hopefully have a better 1st party effort with the next Xbox release..Sony has been killing it for me this generation, i highly doubt they would pull a PS3 launch type fiasco again..they're much more about their bottom line and would be crazy to kill the Playstation brand momentum going into next gen
 
Jan 31, 2018
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#19
Hey Afro, no offense bro, but uh...are you compiling all this information to say.....complete you're Stewie-esque mind control device? You do quite a few polls, and while I'm sure it is garnering you all sorts of notoriety, I think folks are a bit burned out.

Never let me be the one to censor anyone, but I think it would help if there was a point to all this polling?
 
Jun 30, 2004
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#20
This is just rhetoric for some fans to believe what they want to believe. That Microsoft is back, Sony will fuck up next gen and bla bla bla.
That is really all.
Sony not focusing on backwards compatibility when their product hasn't supported it since the beginning has nothing to do with being anti consumer.
Is Microsoft not investing in first party contents throughout all the gen anti consumer?
LOL no, it's just a choice that led to poor results.
Backwards compatibility instead has never proved to be a selling feature.
Choosing to be stricter in regulamentations about how child-looking characters are represented in sexually oriented contexts is anti consumer??? It won't please those who want to see that stuff sure, but not it's not anti consumer.
So yeah this is a bunch of nothing imo.
 
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Oct 30, 2011
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#21
Sony has always been fairly anti consumer, the entire company not just gaming. MS was just so bad earlier that it allowed Sony to look favorable by comparison but they have almost universally and always been worse.
 
Jul 1, 2009
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#22
None of these companies are your friends and they all do some shitty things. I don't think Sony is 2005 arrogant again, and MS put themselves in the position they are recovering from this gen.

Backwards compatibility is great, but MS fans seem to really love it now because they can hold it high in a console war. Sony had full BC on the ps2 and ps3. The ps3 complexity is a reasonable excuse for not being BC on the ps4, and Sony offers a way to stream those games. They've had a few big ones ported over with remasters, like the uncharted series. For the great work MS has done with free BC, I still need a 360 because lots of stuff like NCAA 14 or Forza 4 will never get on the xb1 due to licensing or publisher approval.

The cross play thing was a bit overblown, especially since MS still requires a gold membership to play Fortnite. Sony backed down due to the complaints. How anti consumer.

The MS things like an elite controller or gamepass are neat, but I switched to PS4 this gen because Xbox just didnt have the games I wanted. Halo is down under 343. I stopped caring about Gears of War. Insomniac went from the criminally underrated xb1 exclusive Sunset Overdrive failing to Spiderman being a huge success on the ps4. I got tired of Forza Motorsports. Where's a new Fable? Sony has hit home run after home run with single player AAA games I enjoy.
 
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Jan 28, 2018
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#23
Well, you could be right in the future. But for now, Sony has just taken bad decisions and been lazy because the PS4 is too successful, and they apparently don't want to sell many more while securing the market for the next-gen. They're more stupid than anything, but not anti-consumer yet.

The impression that it pales compared to the various recent Xbox efforts, doesn't mean that Microsoft is anymore pro-consumer, let's not forget they make that horrible cancer Windows 10 and those overpriced Surfaces...
 
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Likes: sn0man
Nov 19, 2011
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#28
We won’t really know until they announce the next generation of consoles. Sony’s exclusive games are so much better right now that they can afford to be arrogant but if they try the same shit they tried with the PS3 then I could easily see MS winning next gen in the US.
 

Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
Aug 24, 2016
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#30
Hey Afro, no offense bro, but uh...are you compiling all this information to say.....complete you're Stewie-esque mind control device? You do quite a few polls, and while I'm sure it is garnering you all sorts of notoriety, I think folks are a bit burned out.

Never let me be the one to censor anyone, but I think it would help if there was a point to all this polling?
Most anti-poll posts are trolls bringing up old threads exaggerating the poll counts, the polls add to the discussion and people actively participate and the numbers clearly show that based on the vote counts (daily console cycle thread has 3 pages of discussion 135 votes and it only was made yesterday.). As well as for most thread, the posts in the thread itself (most people usually ignore the drive-by posts by johnny, vawn, etc, who have nothing better to do. Despite their best efforts.)

Anyway thank you for your concern.
 
Likes: Airola
Nov 5, 2017
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#32
After Sony took the lead they’ve become anti consumer plus they are holding the technology back.

But why shouldn’t they? They could sell a turd on a can and people would still buy it.
 
Likes: Closer
Apr 6, 2017
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#34
making polls is not bad but not every thread needs a pol.. Especially since the amount of people that vote on it vs comments is very low. And if people are kinda complaining by the amount of polls u make.. U could stop that for a while so u dont get that much hate..
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#35
Most anti-poll posts are trolls bringing up old threads exaggerating the poll counts, the polls add to the discussion and people actively participate and the numbers clearly show that based on the vote counts (daily console cycle thread has 3 pages of discussion 135 votes and it only was made yesterday.). As well as for most thread, the posts in the thread itself (most people usually ignore the drive-by posts by johnny, vawn, etc, who have nothing better to do. Despite their best efforts.)

Anyway thank you for your concern.
You're a good egg who helps keep the place active. If you want to keep posting polls though, maybe try sanitizing the options a bit?
 
Oct 17, 2005
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#36
Sony pioneered cross-play, but they did not support it with Fortnite right off the bat. To their defense the biggest reason was not because they didn't want to, it was because their platform was not open which required work/planning to allow. I imagine their platform is as locked down as possible after the PlayStation Network hack years ago. The reality is no one cared except for the loud few.

Backwards compatibility is a huge issue with Sony these days. They went from being the best at providing backwards compatibility to being almost the worst (Switch takes the cake). I can't blame them though it requires a lot of work/resources for older platforms and licensing has become a nightmare for older titles. This is one of the reasons Sony remasters so many games instead and in some cases outright recreates them in current gen form. From here on out I think backwards compatibility won't be problem moving forward with x86. If you want to play older games then get an older console or PlayStation Now.

Not even Microsoft's backwards compatibility is perfect and it certainly doesn't even come close to covering the entire library of Xbox/Xbox 360 (Like launch PS3 did with PS1/PS2), but it is badass that some of those games are highly enhanced. They did a really good job.

The modding community on console is so minuscule it doesn't even matter.

Censoring games is an issue, though. That needs to stop.
 
Likes: CatCouch
Jun 7, 2016
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#38
For PS2 games, let me be a bit more blunt. The fact that the PS2 classics run in a software emulator means the fact that the PS4 doesn’t support any form of backwards compatibility for PS2 games is complete fucking bullshit. The emulator is there, the classics are proof it works, and there is ZERO reason that it cannot be opened to other games. Sure, it’s nice that they’re updating these classic PS2 games to be digital releases with support for cloud saves and trophies (and this format does allow them to address emulator bugs on a game-by-game basis), but that doesn’t mean a local emulator cannot be enabled.
This needed to be addressed years ago, and it wasn’t. Now Sony needs to answer for this.
I really need to quote this to say. To further push your agruement. The PS4 has a native ps2/ps1 emulator that will read your discs.

This isn't some download. It's literally fucking built in.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/01/unlocked-ps4-consoles-can-now-run-copies-of-ps2-games/
 
Likes: Endless Fluff
Jul 23, 2018
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#39
I don't really have much love for either one, right now. That's me being completely honest.

At the moment I'm leaning towards Nintendo, but the second they go censorship-crazy like Sony (and they will, it's only a matter of when) I'll throw them in the bin along with the other two.
 
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Afro Republican

GAF>INTERNET>GAF, BITCHES
Aug 24, 2016
2,494
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#40

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Jul 2, 2013
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#42
Wait really?

That's very.....odd. They could have stile the Xbox One BC thunder almost immediately with that... Weird.
It's almost like they want you to buy digital copies of all your games again.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
12,802
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#43
It's the end of the gen, and looking back Microsoft clearly entered the gen with consumer-questionable policies, although not all were "anti" consumer as some exaggerated for clicks, they did, however, have a few actual "anti-consumer" polices, some of which they did not really remove or change until around 2015.

From late 2015 till now, I've seen a common statement through this and many other boards and YouTube videos of Sony shifting back to their PS3 status, and starting to swap positions with Microsoft on anti-consumer policies, while the latter has become more consumer-friendly.

Some common examples I've seen rage from restrictions on cross-play, Friend gift restrictions, Rejecting services like EA access, odd contracts for indie devs, and recently, censor-ship of Japanese games, outside and inside Japan, among others.

This has led to the claim that arrogant Sony has returned, and that Sony believed it can get away with anti-consumer policies because of their position. The question is do you believe this is true that Sony has become Anti-Consumer? Are some of these people across message boards, comments, and videos exaggerating how anti-consumer Sony have been the last 2+ years? Or have Microsoft and Sony really swapped places?

I mean it is true that since 2015 Microsoft has been a lot more transparent and have showered its fans and skeptics with several consumer-friendly features and the powerful One X, and in comparison, Sony is heading in the opposite direction. However, do you think Sony has embraced anti-consumerism?

Below is a list from Era:



Below is a post from Reddit:
It does not seem like you are asking a question presenting both sides equally... I think you are leading the poll on one side a bit. I see MS being excused while uncertainty pushed on top of Sony... you basically said “it is true that MS is being more and more pro consumer while Sony is going in the opposite direction” and built a case around it. MS issues were exaggerated while anedocfal forum rage is used to justify the proof the poll OP present against the other party...
 
Oct 17, 2005
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#45
Aug 29, 2014
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#46
Sony pretty much just hasn't changed this gen unlike Microsoft who has pretty almost changed everything about their approach this gen. Well they have changed on the censorship issue with Japan which I'm annoyed with but that is about it. Crossplay I understand them balking at since they have the most players among the consoles so why willingly help out the smaller player base of the others when they could just buy your console.
 
Sep 30, 2006
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#47
They've made some very eyebrow raising decisions namely the censorship thing, crossplay and not including BC. Still I think it's a little early to say that they're totally anti-consumer. I think the big litnus test will be the PS5 reveal.

Even if that does come to pass Microsoft will be more than happy to suckerpunch them given how hungry they are right now.
 
Jan 31, 2018
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#48
They've made some very eyebrow raising decisions namely the censorship thing, crossplay and not including BC. Still I think it's a little early to say that they're totally anti-consumer. I think the big litnus test will be the PS5 reveal.

Even if that does come to pass Microsoft will be more than happy to suckerpunch them given how hungry they are right now.
Though I'd say Sony would deserve it for the shit they pulled during the DRM scandal, I highly doubt Microsoft would do that. The worst they've done is the Xbox and Nintendo fortnite crossplay Kumbiya commercials. Sony is brutal and kicks people when they are down. I find it really distasteful.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
12,802
921
1,700
#49
Though I'd say Sony would deserve it for the shit they pulled during the DRM scandal, I highly doubt Microsoft would do that. The worst they've done is the Xbox and Nintendo fortnite crossplay Kumbiya commercials. Sony is brutal and kicks people when they are down. I find it really distasteful.
The entire crossplay controversy was overblown and rode by MS and their partners hard (see Bethesda) and was worse than then kicking a poor almost trillion dollar big mega corporation about their planned and unnflinching DRM plans IMHO.
 
Jun 14, 2017
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#50
Though I'd say Sony would deserve it for the shit they pulled during the DRM scandal, I highly doubt Microsoft would do that. The worst they've done is the Xbox and Nintendo fortnite crossplay Kumbiya commercials. Sony is brutal and kicks people when they are down. I find it really distasteful.
What you think Microsoft wouldn't have come 1000x worse if the shoe was on the other foot during the DRM shitshow?
They've literally jumped on everything Sony have done wrong (even if some accusations are undeserved ) and took the chance to paint themselves in a good light which is exactly the same thing as you're accusing Sony of its the same thing .