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Do you think organic is worth it anymore?

GeekyDad

Member
Most of what I buy from the grocery store is organic, has been for years now. But I'm beginning to wonder if it makes much difference anymore, considering the state of the environment and lack of true transparency when it comes to product nutrition facts and how the products are grown, etc. I would think, though perhaps no additives are added to certain products or pesticides are actively used on produce, most soils are overused and depleted of meaningful nutrients. Dirty air, of course. And going back to the idea of a lack of transparency, it's likely "organic" produce is grown right next to non-organic produce, perhaps even being exposed to some degree to the chemicals used on non-organic produce.

So...do you think there is still a meaningful benefit to buying organic?
 

SpiceRacz

Member
I think there's more benefit to eating organic meat than organic fruit or vegetables. With that said, unless you're an athlete, I don't see why you'd only eat organic foods in the first place.
 

zeorhymer

Member
It never was. Big ole scam to pay extra for same items. To get the organic label, companies have to pay for it. Then that gives the companies a reason to jack up the prices. Produce using fertilizer is considered "non-organic," while other produce using cow shit is, regardless if the fertilizer is cow manure. It's the same the gluten free sticker. The new hot thing I'm seeing is "Keto friendly."
 
I usually don’t go out of my way to buy organic products, especially produce

Having said that, the organic milk I buy tastes better than every non organic milk I’ve tried. I don’t think it’s in my head.

I also buy my eggs from the farmers market and they come from some cute little farm.

Given how much meat I eat, I try to go organic now and then but it’s just too expensive in the long run.

Organic produce is a scam. I’ll never pay extra for it.
 
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Ionian

Member
I usually don’t go out of my way to buy organic products, especially produce

Having said that, the organic milk I buy tastes better than every non organic milk I’ve tried. I don’t think it’s in my head.

I also buy my eggs from the farmers market and they come from some cute little farm.

Given how much meat I eat, I try to go organic now and then but it’s just too expensive in the long run.

Organic produce is a scam. I’ll never pay extra for it.

"Organic produce is a scam. I’ll never pay extra for it." after saying that's all you buy.

I grew up around farms (fucking cows killed my kite as a kid).

Free-range whatever. Chickens, beef ... what is free-range? Depends on land, you let them out, they graze and then you let them back in.

They always stay together and move on to a new patch, it's why farmers offer to rent neighboring fields for grazing. Dumbass cows are mini-dinosaurs considering they eat grass (supplements for a decent herd are needed dependent on weather).
 
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"Organic produce is a scam. I’ll never pay extra for it." after saying that's all you buy.

I grew up around farms (fucking cows killed my kite as a kid).

Free-range whatever. Chickens, beef ... what is free-range? Depends on land, you let them out, they graze and then you let them back in.

They always stay together and move on to a new patch, it's why farmers offer to rent neighboring fields for grazing. Dumbass cows are mini-dinosaurs considering they eat grass (supplements for a decent herd are needed dependent on weather).
I thought produce meant vegetables/fruit. Stuff that grows from the ground.

My bad if I’m using the word wrong/in a confusing way, but that’s how it’s used around here
 
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BigBooper

Gold Member
(fucking cows killed my kite as a kid)
Sorry about your kite, but did the cows mind?

If you can afford it, it's probably healthier to stick to organic. For most people, it probably makes more sense to play the health lottery.
 
I primarily, but not exclusively, buy organic. Part of it is because that's just what my stores carry the most of.

It started with strawberries and raspberries, which I swear taste far better; not because they're necessarily organic, but because they're smaller. I've found the same is true for pears; despite them being almost the same size, organic pears have a different and more pleasing texture.

I think organic bananas probably don't have great health benefits for me, but probably for the people who work in banana farms.

I recently learned that oats, which is what I eat for breakfast most of the time, has a significantly amount of glyphosate per canister. The organics don't; but I also don't know what is in the organics, and they are almost certainly treated with an approved organic pesticide/herbicide.

I do buy organic/free range eggs. Yes, to qualify for that, they literally just have to be able to go outside if they want to.

Things I won't buy organic: Broccoli. Absolute scam in the way they market it. You get a few florets for like 300% the cost, and you're primarily buying the stalk.
 

GeekyDad

Member
I like to patronize local farmers' markets. My conscience is clear.
For full disclosure, though the environment is a concern to me, I buy organic for health concerns. I've always focused on organic produce that is harder to wash, like say, broccoli, cauliflower, etc. But when it comes to zucchini, tomatoes, and other fruits and vegetables, I don't give as much attention to them because I can (and do) easily wash them each day. I even enjoy the conventionally grown honey crisp apples and bananas more than the organically grown ones, mostly because of their textures.


Unfortunately, after watching videos like this one, it seems pesticides are still, as I suspected, an issue when it comes to organics.
 

HoodWinked

Member
There are a mix of scummy farmers and good farmers so while organic doesn't guarantee shit; on average should end up being beneficial.

However there are some produce that are naturally more insect resilient and don't actually get much pesticides like cabbages, cauliflower, broccoli, onions, avacados. So you can save your money on that stuff. Things like Strawberries, apples, grapes, kale are heavily sprayed so those you should buy organic. But these also tend to be more expensive.

Now one of the dumbest things they do is they spray glysophates as a preharvest to kill wheat plants so it's ideal to get organic grains but it's in everything breads, snacks, pasta.
 
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GeekyDad

Member
There are a mix of scummy farmers and good farmers so while organic doesn't guarantee shit; on average should end up being beneficial.

However there are some produce that are naturally more insect resilient and don't actually get much pesticides like cabbages, cauliflower, broccoli, onions, avacados. So you can save your money on that stuff. Things like Strawberries, apples, grapes, kale are heavily sprayed so those you should buy organic. But these also tend to be more expensive.

Now one of the dumbest things they do is they spray glysophates as a preharvest to kill wheat plants so it's ideal to get organic grains but it's in everything breads, snacks, pasta.
Let me ask you this, something like an apple, does washing it make what it's sprayed with a moot issue, or do you think those chemicals are somehow consumed by the fruits (grown in, so to speak)?
 

Ionian

Member
I thought produce meant vegetables/fruit. Stuff that grows from the ground.

My bad if I’m using the word wrong/in a confusing way, but that’s how it’s used around here

Nah dude, produce is the end result of farming, no matter crops or livestock.

Remember the talk about food mountains, lemme give you a taste.


Edit: Old farmers were happy, new people to the game got screwed and the rug pulled out under their feet. Simply couldn't compete with supermarkets importing from other countries despite the government subsidies.

Next time you go to Aldi or LIDL check it out.
 
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There are a mix of scummy farmers and good farmers so while organic doesn't guarantee shit; on average should end up being beneficial.

However there are some produce that are naturally more insect resilient and don't actually get much pesticides like cabbages, cauliflower, broccoli, onions, avacados. So you can save your money on that stuff. Things like Strawberries, apples, grapes, kale are heavily sprayed so those you should buy organic. But these also tend to be more expensive.

Now one of the dumbest things they do is they spray glysophates as a preharvest to kill wheat plants so it's ideal to get organic grains but it's in everything breads, snacks, pasta.
Basically thin skin = buy organic. Apple, grapes, tomatoes.

thick skin produce = don’t get organic. Bananas, avocado, onion sweet potatoes etc.

But organic doesn’t mean pesticide free so ideally you grow your own if you have the time. Which I don’t atm.
 

zeorhymer

Member
Let me ask you this, something like an apple, does washing it make what it's sprayed with a moot issue, or do you think those chemicals are somehow consumed by the fruits (grown in, so to speak)?
Chemicals can penetrate the skin of an apple. Chemicals sprayed, goes into the soil and taken up by the roots. Chemicals sprayed goes into the soil, leech into the water and goes bonkers, etc. Instead of the "organic" label, you should be looking at pesticide free. Obviously pesticide free is the most expensive due to the fact that a larger portion of the crop is lost due to nature eating it.
 

Mossybrew

Member
Never cared about organic at all, so easy answer for me. I go through a gallon of vodka a week, pesticides are the least of my body's problems.
 
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GeekyDad

Member
Chemicals can penetrate the skin of an apple. Chemicals sprayed, goes into the soil and taken up by the roots. Chemicals sprayed goes into the soil, leech into the water and goes bonkers, etc. Instead of the "organic" label, you should be looking at pesticide free. Obviously pesticide free is the most expensive due to the fact that a larger portion of the crop is lost due to nature eating it.
Ah...hmm...I'm not sure I've ever seen any produce labels that say that, or perhaps I've just not paid attention. But yeah, that's kinda been my main concern. Thank you.

Nah dude, produce is the end result of farming, no matter crops or livestock.

...
To be clear, when I say "produce," I am referring strictly to vegetables and fruits, as that's pretty much colloquial where I'm from.
 
Sure, but I'd advise reading the packaging content etiquette to get an idea of what you're buying though (most people neglect to do so). Some times it "barely" qualifies for the organic category even if its got a "100% organic" stamp plastered across the front. Sometimes Its purely a scheme to sell you the product and give you a good conscience with the purchase.
 

DrAspirino

Banned
I usually buy organic when I go to the grocery store, the supermarket and the "free market" at my town. After all, the only non-organic things in the world are plastic bags, salt, and cleaning products.

Using "organic" for products without pesticides is such a scam. EVERYTHING that has a mix of carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, sulphur, and phosphorus is "organic", because it comes from a living being!

"Oh, but the label and the seller says that's organic, so it must mean it has no added chemicals or pesticides"... - newflash!, they can sell you a fruit full of pesticides, stick a "organic" label in it and still be correct. (and charge you the hell up for that).

Ask any chemist (or pharmacist) and will give you the same answer. Why do you think there is a "organic chemistry" to begin with?

BTW, if we stick to the definition, most drugs are organic as well ;)
 
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it's just a marketing term so they can jack up the price while making you feel better.

It's like bottled water. You think you are buying "better, cleaner mineral water" but it's the same water source as your tap.
 

Fbh

Member
I've now worked long enough in the food industry to know how shitty regulations and monitoring/control are in my country (specially for big companies). So I don't trust any of this stuff
 

KielCasto

Member
Regarding the environment, If I’m remembering a podcast right, going organic doesn’t have a clear benefit for the environment. Less so for the supply. Look at Sri Lanka.
 

InfiniteCombo

Gold Member
My ex girlfriend used to go on rants about how organic is a scam. (She was one of those "pretty hot, but also pretty fucking crazy" type chicks, so when she used to go on her "organic is a scam" rants I would just shrug it off and think, oh, yet another rant...) But she did read a lot about this, and she wasn't entirely wrong on this topic -- there are aspects of the organic label that are kind of scammy.

For me it depends on the fruit/vegetable. If there's a clear flavor improvement on the organic version, I will buy the organic version. But these days groceries are pretty fucking expensive, and organic even more so...
 
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Thaedolus

Gold Member
It’s almost always a scam. What isn’t a scam is grass fed meat. My wife’s grandfather raises his own cattle and we usually get a bunch of it every year, it’s by far the best beef I’ve ever had.

Organic produce is pretty much nonsense
 

InfiniteCombo

Gold Member
Maybe it has already been posted, but here is a decent article from Harvard Medical School on the matter. (Article is a bit old, from September 2015):


TL;DR: at the time of the article's publishing, it was unclear/inconclusive whether organic was better for you nutritionally or healthwise. In fact, the lady interviewed for the article (Director of Department of Nutrition at Harvard) says she would NOT recommend organic.
 

Ionian

Member
It’s almost always a scam. What isn’t a scam is grass fed meat. My wife’s grandfather raises his own cattle and we usually get a bunch of it every year, it’s by far the best beef I’ve ever had.

Organic produce is pretty much nonsense

There is a notable difference with the real shit alright. For example eggs can come out different colours which are dumped as they don't fit the eye of the supermarket boxes. They're perfectly fine but look odd even though it's completely normal and even more nutritious. But yeah they certainly stretch reality with the organic slogan.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
There is a notable difference with the real shit alright. For example eggs can come out different colours which are dumped as they don't fit the eye of the supermarket boxes. They're perfectly fine but look odd even though it's completely normal and even more nutritious. But yeah they certainly stretch reality with the organic slogan.
Eggs for sure are different when you get the good stuff. Eggs from chickens at home practically glow. While I always worry about the naturalistic fallacy, animal products in general I think benefit from the whole process being more natural.
 

Ionian

Member
Maybe it has already been posted, but here is a decent article from Harvard Medical School on the matter. (Article is a bit old, from September 2015):


TL;DR: at the time of the article's publishing, it was unclear/inconclusive whether organic was better for you nutritionally or healthwise. In fact, the lady interviewed for the article (Director of Department of Nutrition at Harvard) says she would NOT recommend organic.

Curious article, I agree mostly with it apart from the nutrition factor. Happy animals that get to fuck about, eat and be lazy and stress free do produce better compared to stressed animals and they do taste different. I'm no scientist though, just from my own experience. I'll still buy battery eggs over organic though due to price but real organic ones, there really is a difference in size, taste and appearance.
 

zeorhymer

Member
There is a notable difference with the real shit alright. For example eggs can come out different colours which are dumped as they don't fit the eye of the supermarket boxes. They're perfectly fine but look odd even though it's completely normal and even more nutritious. But yeah they certainly stretch reality with the organic slogan.
Eggs are different. What you give to the chicken reflects in the quality of the eggs. "Designer" eggs are a thing in Japan.

 

MrMephistoX

Member
To me locally produced at least makes me feel better and I could verify by driving there if I wanted to. Factory farm beef is identical even if they get the organic label.
 

mutt765

Member
I usually don’t go out of my way to buy organic products, especially produce

Having said that, the organic milk I buy tastes better than every non organic milk I’ve tried. I don’t think it’s in my head.

I also buy my eggs from the farmers market and they come from some cute little farm.

Given how much meat I eat, I try to go organic now and then but it’s just too expensive in the long run.

Organic produce is a scam. I’ll never pay extra for it.
I agree, The most noticeable difference I've seen is between organic and conventional fat free milk. The organic kind is somehow still opaque and slightly creamy, unlike the conventional kind which is watery and gross. I have no idea why that is but I only buy organic milk because of it.

That also makes me think what SpiceRacz SpiceRacz said might be true, there seems to be a more noticeable difference in animal products then fruits and vegetables.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Organic produce suppliers and stores don't even treat them as worth more.

They sell it to you for more, but the costs of organic oranges and regular oranges are bought from suppliers at basically the same price. The store just jacks it up more.
It never was. Big ole scam to pay extra for same items. To get the organic label, companies have to pay for it. Then that gives the companies a reason to jack up the prices. Produce using fertilizer is considered "non-organic," while other produce using cow shit is, regardless if the fertilizer is cow manure. It's the same the gluten free sticker. The new hot thing I'm seeing is "Keto friendly."
100% true.

It's like eco-friendly badges.

What some of you don't know is there's marketing companies that come up with these kinds of things suppliers can stick on their label. All the supplier did was pay for it, and then they get a license to use it on their green package of X. It can literally be a % royalty payment.

Also, eco-friendly products often costs less to make, but suppliers charge the same price or more to suppliers. And in turn Walmart or Costco sticker shock you with something that costs $5 or $10 more than a decent mainstream brand.

It costs less to make because there's less dyes or preservatives or chemicals in it. So it costs less to make but companies like mine charge more. And that's because people are willing to pay for it.

If someone is willing to pay for higher prices for less chemicals in their product that's perfectly fine. You want less chemicals in it. But in return depending on what it is, the product will perform worse too. So you're paying more for something that makes the companies more money and is possibly worse quality. Your choice if you want to do it.

Companies can say whatever they want to get suckers buying their stuff. All they got to do is watch for accurate ingredient labeling and avoiding measurable claims where a competitor or government safety department can examine the product and debunk it. That's why shampoo companies will say something like "contains lilac juice" but never say how much. It could be 0.01 grams. That counts.

Anything that is subjective can't even be challenged either. So that's why companies call their shit "ultra" or "elite" or "premium". Means absolutely nothing.
 
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It started with strawberries and raspberries, which I swear taste far better; not because they're necessarily organic, but because they're smaller. I've found the same is true for pears; despite them being almost the same size, organic pears have a different and more pleasing texture.
That's curious. Now I want to try that. I've noticed that supermarket berries tend to be overgrown, and unripened. I've never thought to look at the quality of them in the organic aisle.
 

JCK75

Member
It's always been a scam and I'm less likely to buy something when it makes too many bold claims on the label.
 

ShirAhava

Plays with kids toys, in the adult gaming world
Grow yer own food at home or eat out of a garbage can

organic is a meme
 

Quasicat

Member
I never ate organic because it seemed like a waste of money. Then, Kroger Pick Up grabbed the wrong bag of Doritos. Instead of nacho cheese, they got me the organic white cheddar ones.

I still don’t buy other organic items, but I actually prefer the taste and texture of these over the regular chips.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
I personally don't think it ever was, it's mostly marketing at this point. Even those who stick to strictly "organic" farming methods are using fertilizers and such that are no safer (or even less safe in some cases) than the fine-tuned commercial alternatives, and "organic" methods lead to more waste.

Either the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe, or Skeptoid, or both, devoted some time to looking into the whole organic thing years ago. One should be able to Google up those podcast episodes (and I am pretty sure Skeptoid still offers text transcripts for all of their episodes) for more info.
 

-Minsc-

Member
Do not know. I've never been one to go out of my way to buy organic.

What I can say is "non-organic" farming practices came about because people want to play "The Legend of Zelda" instead of growing their own food. As a fellow involved in farming this holds true to me too. Perhaps farmers could go back to fertilizing their fields with lobster?

On our farm herbicides are used on the grain crops to control weeds. Cow shit is tilled into the land. Chemical fertilizer is spread on the grassland to supplement.
 
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