Support NeoGAF

[Con_Smith]

They gained visibility. Arguing anything else is too early as the many factions of this fucked up collective are only united in one goal, luckily they all suck at actually gaining real traction.

By real traction I mean more than just the shadow level of support. Inherently the racism in America isn't as overt as just hating blacks, Hispanics, Jews, etc outside of just falling into stereotypes. The ones you truly want on your side, the gullible both sides are the same I can't make a decision because I'm too ignorant to look for it types have too much telling them not to deal with their foolishness. Between the death of that young lady, the protests and confederate monument take downs having the President not disavow you isn't enough to turn away from the noise rational people are making. Not with Trumps approval so low.

It's an L for them. I can't stand here and say they made much gains as that makes me no better than a pundit excusing the right for a lot and condemning the left for a little. Going strictly by people not politics, the outcry has been real enough that they have to go back into hiding and regroup before they can do something on that scale again.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

After watching that vice news feature, I find it hard to imagine any town mayor allowing this to happen again. Those guys were clearly looking for trouble. In that sense I'd say it's a loss.

 

[LiK]

It's reminded the majority why they're a dangerous threat and should be dealt as such. More people are coming out against them instead of just letting them have their way. The racists are louder now but everyone else is also more proactive going against them now like companies, the media and regular people.

 

[shawnbuddy]

They probably would have won, been able to say violent Antifa was oppressing them, and gotten positive Fox News and right wing coverage about their free speech. It seems like any (violent) Antifa attacks on them just make them stronger. This is the same Richard Spencer that was punched, you know. He didn't go away, he joined in taking over an American city for a day and gripping it in racist terror. So it probably would have been a win, with the right able to spin the brawling in a way that raises their profile and makes them look like victims with a valid permit who had to act in self defense.

If one of their own hadn't freaked out and murdered a white girl with his car. That turned it into a bit of a negative, I think.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

You can read their own internal bickering and see they know they've fucked up. Those who think themselves smart want to manipulate society behind the scenes. But they've created a cultural movement based around the dream of literal race wars and white guys taking violent revenge on people.

The flipside of white nationalists recruiting from internet loner culture is that they've built a base on sociopathic people who want to hurt others to make themselves feel better. Usually, it's limited to harassment, doxxing, and sometimes dangerous acts like swatting. But by emboldening these people to become more of a direct threat to the public, the average person is waking up to the fact that all this is no joke.

Regardless of the current presidential administration, white nationalists and internet hate recruiters have given the public and elected officials an opportunity to take decisive action against them, ban their assembly, and deny them services.

Excellent post.

 

[Oppo]

I'd call it a Pyrrhic victory for the racists.

They definitely gained some visibility and therefore attention, but it cost them dearly -- or rather, it will in the medium-long term.

Particularly the parts where they can be easily identified and fired. Guess what, masks will be back soon, and that's... wait for it... not a good look.

 

[Enduin]

Short term win and a long term loss I think. Hard to really tell though so soon after, but I imagine they could see a fair bit of support and swelling of ranks in the short term as a lot of angry closeted people are looking for an excuse to jump aboard and seeing recriminations in the news and by liberals on social media will get them to finally throw in their support.

But overall I think the vast majority are against them now decisively and will only be further against them with each new public event they hold. Local government and communities are accelerating plans to remove statues and fight against this which might again in the short term help them recruit, but overall they're fighting a losing battle.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

For the most part, they lost. Now most sane people can't play dumb and say people are over exaggerating about the threat of radical white supremacists. We now have a tangible, horrific incident to attach to what everyone was afraid of back in November. People are now disturbed enough to do things they never even thought of a few days ago. Trump's council of CEOs are thinning, people are actively going out and removing Confederate statues by force, the establishment GOP now has to specifically denounce Nazism, a white person is being called a terrorist for the first time in decades.


They did have a small win with our Coward in Chief's incredibly feeble response. A lot of those human waste felt validated knowing that the highest office of the land walked on pins and needles trying not to offend them. And after a pitiful "revision" of his words he went to Twitter and started whining about fake news like he was the real victim in all of this. Thankfully his approval rating had a drop even though it's not as large as it should've been.

tl;dr This was a net loss but only in spite of that orange asshole licking the wounds of extremists.

 

[Dunkley]

Looking at this thread, I feel like they gained the negative exposure they deserve.

So yeah, they lost.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

It's a gaggle of about 200 individuals fighting a battle they've already lost.

They never stood a chance in the first place.

 

[Spectone]

I think they have lost big time. They took decades to build up this nice image of the alt-right and now most people can see through it. Another mistake they made is they drew attention to themselves, most people didn't know who these alt-right people where and thus they could operate with relative impunity.

The question is if they will recover from this?

 

[DrROBschiz]

It's a gaggle of about 200 individuals fighting a battle they've already lost.

They never stood a chance in the first place.

Agreed but lets not get complacent

People need to go hard on these fools. Identify them

Out them. No hiding places

 

[Beartruck]

When you're right wing and you have Orrin Hatch outright disavowing you, you fucked up.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Eh, most people already had a team and I doubt much has changed for most people.

The "both sides", "what about blm/black panthers/antifa?", "they don't deserve to lose their jobs for their opinions" & "this started by punching nazi" people are just complicit in deflecting for the white supremacist

They'll ignore Dylan Roof, Elliot Rodgers & James Holmes but swear punching nazis is escalating. You know, they were peacefully marching with weapons chanting about blood and soil until the real facists showed up....

They know they're clowns but "why is black power okay but white power isnt?" & "I hate all racists"

I don't think they've lost that much because whiteness always gets a million chances and the benefit of the doubt.

Still; they are losing in the sense that hanging out with a bunch of dudes in khakis and bicycle helmets on a Friday night isn't exactly making white men attract women to reproduce more than any minority's like they are so afraid of. Instead of focusing on all the whites they're losing to overdose, they're bringing up Chicago for no reason.

 

[Zap Rowsdower]

I don't think we will know until some time has passed.

Ultimately this, but I have feeling that in the long run that they've lost already.

As people have been saying the alt-right weren't a strongly known element outside the Internet but now Charlottesville has revealed to the whole world what they truly were the whole time, Nazis. Pandora's Box has opened for them and there's no going back to hiding behind "rationalism" or just "asking questions." Only full blown Nazi sympathizers will defend them at this point and their goal to protect their Confederate participation trophies is failing miserably because they're all starting to get torn down across the South. The Nazis are losing their jobs and getting their lives ruined and if they decide to go full KKK and wear hoods they've gone further down the road of the country turning against them. America is racist as hell but in modern times the Nazis and KKK are so synonymous with pure evil that this is the wake-up call for people that no, we do not live in a post-racial society like you think we do.

 

[RuGalz]

This is just the beginning. The movement is going to go on for a while, especially the alt right is building up their own corporate world.

 

[Quixzlizx]

It's a short-term win for the actual Nazis, since they didn't have anything to lose in the first place, but it's a loss for their "respectable" patrons (Trump and the GOP).

I'm imagining a room full of Republican donors and operatives facepalming about how they're fucking everything up.

 

[PillarEN]

I don't really know what it means at the moment. Will it lead to an increase of such Nazi rallies? Will their support numbers increase? Will it greatly impact the next presidential election? I think it's hard to tell this early.

 

[chadtwo]

Your "power level"?

Is this common parlance in the alt-right community? If so, what does that even mean?

 

[2real4tv]

That guy being chased out of his press conference was very pleasing

 

[rokkerkory]

With the statues coming down all over, i'd say they lost ground

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

I think they broke even, all things considered. They managed to largely unite the left and revealed themselves as Nazi terrorists. Statues will come down faster and some states are branding them terror groups.

At the same the President has made it clear he has their back and we haven't seen the FBI take this as seriously as an ISIS attack.

 

[dpunk3]

Both, there will always be sympathizers to any cause. I'd also argue that anyone who says some variant of "both sides were in the wrong in Charlotteville" to be a gain for these Neo Nazi shits.

From a neo-Nazi website.

 

[Nerazar]

They lost hard. But this is also a lesson for us: each time we use violence or indulge in violent fantasies (see "let's exterminate all Nazis!" in another thread), the progressive cause *will* lose support. It doesn't matter who is beaten up or killed, violence will always be a red line in a movement in terms of general support from society. We can and should defend ourselves against violent attacks, though.

The Altright is exposing itself to the bright sunlight of public scrutiny... and their agenda is so vile that most members of society will renounce it almost instantly. So even though it hurts, having Trump at the top of this pile of deplorables will show the rest what happens if you give in to right-wing populism. So far, they have damaged themselves a lot, which is very good.

 

[Chasm Skulker]

Your "power level"?

Is this common parlance in the alt-right community? If so, what does that even mean?

They speak in memes. Your power level is "how red-pilled you are" or "how extreme you are".

You might tell your family and closest friends you voted for Trump, but you'd be hiding your power level if you didn't tell them you've read Mein Kampf or believe in the biological superiority of the white race.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

They gained visibility. Arguing anything else is too early as the many factions of this fucked up collective are only united in one goal, luckily they all suck at actually gaining real traction.

By real traction I mean more than just the shadow level of support. Inherently the racism in America isn't as overt as just hating blacks, Hispanics, Jews, etc outside of just falling into stereotypes. The ones you truly want on your side, the gullible both sides are the same I can't make a decision because I'm too ignorant to look for it types have too much telling them not to deal with their foolishness. Between the death of that young lady, the protests and confederate monument take downs having the President not disavow you isn't enough to turn away from the noise rational people are making. Not with Trumps approval so low.

It's an L for them. I can't stand here and say they made much gains as that makes me no better than a pundit excusing the right for a lot and condemning the left for a little. Going strictly by people not politics, the outcry has been real enough that they have to go back into hiding and regroup before they can do something on that scale again.

Meh I disagree. Nazis and racists have already known that what they say is socially unacceptable. They knew the shit storm they were getting themselves into. All they did was show to all of the undercover racists at home that there is a physical movement of people and that they are not alone. It emboldened the people that were on the fence. It also allowed all of these different groups to meet together and expand their networking. They are getting fairly organized and more militia like with a growing stockpile of weapons. These people are already insane, think they are being marginalized, and are ready for violence. Imagine how much more crazy they are going to get after they've lost their jobs and their webpages are being taken down.

Overall, Charlottesville has shown that they make up less than .001% of the population and it likely isnt going to rise significantly anytime soon. However, just because a movement isn't going to gain enough traction to become a political influence. Doesn't mean that the alt-Reality isn't estranged, capable and willing to commit domestic terrorism and extreme violence. An Alt-Reality group already overthrew and occupied a government facility for over a month earlier this year. There are also way too many both sides idiots that are now both siding Nazism.


So yes Nazism lost traction of Charlottesville and it's evident this one want have a Tea Party surge like in 2010. However, I think it gained traction in proving that they are a real movement that needs to be taken seriously and they will provoke future conflicts.

 

[Toxi]

After watching that vice news feature, I find it hard to imagine any town mayor allowing this to happen again. Those guys were clearly looking for trouble. In that sense I'd say it's a loss.

Any town mayor who tries to stop a rally like this one will face legal opposition because of the first amendment. Hell, Charlottesville tried to move the site of Saturday's rally for safety concerns and faced opposition from the ACLU.

So nope, no losses there.

 

[Temeculan3000]

In the past these Nazi groups have gained wider support by preying upon the fears of white people. Usually related to other races hurting their economy or home values.

In the 60s & 70s it was Black people coming to their cities and moving into their neighborhoods. Their own prejudices and racist views were preyed upon with fear-mongering that their safe neighborhood would turn into a crack den with shootings and prostitution. Their home values would plummet. These were usually blue collar areas.

Some relevant quotes from people who supported the Nazi's back then.

“We don’t want the neighborhood to go to shit. We don’t want rapes and robberies. That’s why I got my White Power shirt on and you’ll see a lot more today from people who aren’t Nazis.”

“They felt like they were going to lose their home — that little postage-stamp lawn and little bungalow house. That was everything they had worked for for their family, and it was portrayed to them [that] it was under attack from black people.”

These people did not identify as Nazi's but tolerated them because of their own racist views and they felt like the Nazi's were standing up for them. However, society as a whole tolerated more racism then.

Overall I think they hurt themselves, people are not willing to stand with them over their truly abhorrent views, people are willing to stand with them when it is about immigration or the economy. Don't let them hide behind those things, and expose who they really are.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

They killed a counter-protester and the president of the United States declined to condemn them. I don't know how you don't count that as a win.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I'd say it was a loss for the Nazis. In the immediate aftermath they were condemned by basically every figurehead in the GOP who isn't Trump, they were dumped by every web-hosting platform, they triggered an accelerated call to destroy all remaining Confederate monuments, and they have other cities declaring them a terrorist organization that will be banned from holding public rallies, not to mention a whole bunch of business leaders turned on Trump specifically for his complete mishandling of the situation. They are specifically linked to a terrorist attack now, which has a way of turning the general public against you immediately and irrevocably (and that attack also makes it possible to tie older attacks like Dylann Roof specifically to the alt-right/neo-nazi/proto-confederacy movement of virulent racists using terrorism as a tool of oppression). Their image has been shattered in the eyes of anyone who was on the fence about what exactly the alt-right represents, and even people who are arch-conservatives with clear white supremacist views are backing off from a violent swastika-laden rally that literally killed innocent people. Taking over a town for a weekend was a Pyrrhic victory at best, and an utter nightmare for their image with the broader public. Sure, they still have Trump's support, but that's just going to cause in-fighting between Trump and the rest of the GOP who all publicly condemned the neo-Nazis by name. Having the President on your side isn't a win if he's literally the only person in a position of power who supports you.

 

[Jag]

I'm still confused by the chant "Jews won't replace us." I'm pretty sure Jews weren't after that guy's job at the hot dog stand that got fired.

Is the chant part of the Zionist conspiracy theory that Jews control everything?

 

[Nafai1123]

IMO they lost. They galvanized a large portion of the country against them and validated violence against them.

 

[MilkBeard]

I think they have lost something here. The thing is, there may be a swelling of these people in the near future, but when fighting negative groups, you must first bring them out of the shadows and expose them to the public before anything real can happen. This is the first step towards causing real damage to these movements. Now it will depend on if they go back to their holes and caves or if they will gather and expose themselves again.

At least now we have experienced methods to expose these people. They will face consequences in their regular lives, or be forced to don masks or hoods again, which will further label them as extreme and worth fighting to the public eye.

 

[Kite]

Depends on if the Left is gonna finally figure out that they need to unite.. or are they gonna still be whining about their purity tests and pointless infighting aka going after centrists, moderates, neoliberals, corporatists, bernie bros, yas queen~!..

Yeah I'm not holding my breath, the Left in the US has always been disorganized and dumb.

 

[KernelPanic]

It's certainly shining a spotlight on their fuckery. I'd say they have blood on their hands.

http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/katharine-gorka-life-after-hate_us_59921356e4b09096429943b6

WASHINGTON ― Weeks before a violent white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, led to three deaths and 19 injuries, the Trump administration revoked a grant to Life After Hate, a group that works to de-radicalize neo-Nazis.

The Department of Homeland Security had awarded the group $400,000 as part of its Countering Violent Extremism program in January, just days before former President Barack Obama left office. It was the only group selected for a grant that focused exclusively on fighting white supremacy. But the grant money was not immediately disbursed.

Trump aides, including Katharine Gorka, a controversial national security analyst known for her anti-Muslim rhetoric, were already working toward eliminating Life After Hate’s grant and to direct all funding toward fighting what the president has described as “radical Islamic terrorism.”

In December, Gorka, then a member of Trump’s transition team, met with George Selim, the DHS official who headed the Countering Violent Extremism program until he resigned last month, and his then-deputy, David Gersten.

 

[Oriel]

We'll have to wait and see. If there isn't a major crackdown on online Nazis, a repudiation of Trump and a return to some semblance of decency in American politics then they'll feel emboldened. Their attitude would literally be "we killed a leftist cuck and the Master Race is still here! Time to up the ante. MAGA!"

They need to be smashed now or they'll just continue gaining strength.

 

[RustyNails]

The hell. Nazis are woke right now. They are planning another rally in Virginia next month and also at Texas A&M. So yeah, they gained overall in their organized rallies.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

The hell. Nazis are woke right now. They are planning another rally in Virginia next month and also at Texas A&M. So yeah, they gained overall in their organized rallies.

Yeah they have now legitimized themselves as an actual movement. Now there are Nazi rallies being planned in VA, Texas, Massachusetts and Kentucky. Politics on state and local levels is also concerning as some areas are susceptible to voting in Nazis and a number of Nazis are gearing up to enter politics. If any Nazis get into the House or Senate while under Trump things can get significantly worse. Right now public outrage seems like they will never be a major political force but they are already hoping to have at least 10,000 recruits to march into DC in the next few years. I fear that they can easily obtain that amount of followers if not more.

 

[Poppy]

hopefully this is the cresting of their wave and they will hit the high water mark before much more violence erupts, then recede

 

[Gordon Shumway]

They gained a resurgence in mainstream attention. Probably piqued the interest of a bunch of disaffected twenty-somethings who are bitter at what they perceive to be unfair treatment to White people.

Yup..

Both, there will always be sympathizers to any cause. I'd also argue that anyone who says some variant of "both sides were in the wrong in Charlotteville" to be a gain for these Neo Nazi shits.

Yup..

 

[jelly]

Lost a lot and gained some idiots probably.

If anything it's really shook people that you can't deal with Trump, don't even try. He is scum who should be shown the door asap and anyone working with him should be treated the same. Shame it's come to this but a wake up call of sorts for many people, this isn't the future you should be aiming for. Fight it.

 

[Ithil]

It's overall a negative. They are thoroughly back in the spotlight now, and there's going to be a big pushback against them.

Also, things like their "alt-right" rebranding attempt are 100% dead now, the term is being reported as equivalent to neo-Nazi or white supremacist by news channels.
They have flourished in recent years because they were in the background, out of the mainstream and operating mainly on the internet.

Look at the Confederate statue removal being accelerated by the rally, not slowed down, or the sites getting kicked off their domains. There's nothing worse for these far right pricks than to have a spotlight shone on them.

 

[Neo C.]

Depends on the reaction. If everyone steps up and do everything to gain back the power in politics, then they've lost. If Americans stay complacent and let them continue to spread their fascist propaganda, then they've won.

 

[Raven117]

Loss.

None of this is new. These are not new ideas. America has been dealing with some version of this for awhile. Hell, just re-watch American History X. Of course, back in those days (and earlier) organizers had to be public. In the internet days, all dark holes are connected.

The incident over the weekend just reminded everyone that these guys do still exist as they scampered out of the filth they hid in and that they do pose a threat to american democracy.

 

[HotHamBoy]

It may have galvanized some of the right wing Nazi hating war proud people against them I guess? Hopefully a few nazis start getting shot. What are all your guns for if you aren't willing to shoot a Nazi America?

I don't want any martyrs, thanks.

now people are associating Alt Right with Nazism.

They gained visibility but I really don't think "any press is good press" applies here. So overall I think it hurt the Alt-Right and it definitely hurt Trump. Well, he hurt himself.

 

[zeemumu]

Gained. Now people know there is a movement going on and that it is no longer universally socially unacceptable to have those views.

All the nazi saluting during the campaign last year wouldn't have tipped them off already?

 

[captive]

i think they've lost. People should now know for sure that alt-right is just another term for neo-nazi. I hope the media stops pussyfotting around calling them the alt-right and just call them white supremacists and neo nazis.

 

[Nafai1123]

I don't want any martyrs, thanks.

They're only martyrs to those already too far gone.

These fucks need to feel fear and intimidation every time they walk out their front door. I'm fucking done with this useless pacifist bullshit.

 

[minor effort]

Gained, but only because the president demonstrated he has their back. Don't underestimate the significance of that.

Otherwise they're still losers, their worldview has no future, none of them will ever truly find happiness in doing nazi bullshit and are spiritually lonesome, and the rest of us are gonna continue tearing your stupid monuments the fuck down.

 

[Lucky Seven]

>make the movement appealing to the AVERAGE white person
Well than it wouldn't be alt-right :^)