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[MightyHedgehog]

The thing I really like about GE is it's pace. No other game has it's feel and speed. It's really slow and battles drag on, but that's a GOOD thing. In every other FPS you never really have shoot outs. Everything happens so fast. You get into a gun battle and it's over before you know it.

Though it's been trumped in all aspects by a range of other titles since its release, Anyaka nailed one of the best things about GE (and PD)...something that hasn't really been surpassed since. I'll add that the damage model, general weapons balance and multiplayer level design all made it work. I loved that there were dead(ly)-ends and interesting alcoves that created spontaneous cover 'n fire gun battles (that you could last more than 10 seconds in) in the MP maps...it made getting out of them interesting and intense...especially in Facility and Archives. I love hectic, Quake-style MP action, but, for multiplayer, the slower speed and harsh, but still generous damage model coupled with the weapon balance found in GE, PD, and AHL are close to being perfect, IMO, for simulating slower, but extremely intense gunfights. This is something that I hope Perfect Dark Zero retains and improves upon.

 

[Deg]

As was said already in this thread...

...Goldeneye was a milestone, but it has since been surpassed.

They surpassed GE in producing sucky level design relying on point a to b mechanics. Virtually every fps today is almost the same in progression. GE did something ages ago and it still is unique. Which is why it has the best status of any console fps and bigger than all other fps save for maybe Half Life.

 

[Kiriku]

I loved GE - the big thing for me was how the level changed with difficult , with the objectives often changing how you'd go about the levels.

I think this proves even more where the Goldeneye people are today (Free Radical).

 

[Deg]

The Goldeneye team is no more unfortuantely.

 

[Kiriku]

The Goldeneye team is no more unfortuantely.

Really? I thought at least some of them left Rare and started Free Radical instead?

 

[Drek]

Red Faction has Geo-Mod and therefore wins. Simple as that.

 

[Prospero]

Let's see.

Dam--good
Facility--excellent
Runway--short, but fun
Surface--decent
Bunker--one of the best levels ever in an FPS
Silo--meh
Frigate--pretty good
Surface 2--geez, not again
Bunker 2--once again, one of the best levels ever in an FPS
Statue--terrible
Archives--not much better
Streets--terrible
Depot--getting better
Train--simple, but excellent
Jungle--mediocre
Control--even better than Bunker
Caverns--meh
Cradle--I never liked it.

The good levels (Facility, Bunker, Control) are still classics, but for every one of those you have a stinker you have to deal with. Timesplitters 2 has much better level design than Goldeneye.

Now, if you said "best music ever in an FPS", Goldeneye would win, hands down.

 

[The Guivre]

There was a summer, way back in the day.. I think 98. I spent like two weeks on a vacation with my family and another family we were all friends with. GoldenEye was played every day it seems. My father and I vs. my friend and his father or Sons vs Fathers. That kind of thing.

I like GoldenEye for the fact it provided fun, and amazingly enough father son bonding, but in looking back at the game itself I disliked it quite a bit. Levels could at times turn you around pretty easily if you got caught dodging in and out of halls in a fire fight. Also the use of single player maps wasn't really such a good idea for multi player.

Sorta like Dark10x said, some people will love a game no matter what. I'm sure if I went and played GE again I'd complain about many things, especially it's aiming system, I've always hated the auto center that you have to struggle with to keep still and where you want it. But anyway, GoldenEye was fun then, but now Halo2 and HL2 and Doom3 and all that stuff is fun, I'm sure we'll look back similarly on those games when the time comes.

 

[dark10x]

Though it's been trumped in all aspects by a range of other titles since its release, Anyaka nailed one of the best things about GE (and PD)...something that hasn't really been surpassed since. I'll add that the damage model, general weapons balance and multiplayer level design all made it work. I loved that there were dead(ly)-ends and interesting alcoves that created spontaneous cover 'n fire gun battles (that you could last more than 10 seconds in) in the MP maps...it made getting out of them interesting and intense...especially in Facility and Archives. I love hectic, Quake-style MP action, but, for multiplayer, the slower speed and harsh, but still generous damage model coupled with the weapon balance found in GE, PD, and AHL are close to being perfect, IMO, for simulating slower, but extremely intense gunfights. This is something that I hope Perfect Dark Zero retains and improves upon.

The thing I really like about GE is it's pace. No other game has it's feel and speed. It's really slow and battles drag on, but that's a GOOD thing. In every other FPS you never really have shoot outs. Everything happens so fast. You get into a gun battle and it's over before you know it.

Have you guys actually played Halo or what? That's exactly how it plays. The battles are slow paced and require a lot of strategy. I mean, you could spend 10 minutes just clearing out one room if you really want to make it through cleanly.

Now, if you said "best music ever in an FPS", Goldeneye would win, hands down.

That's another Halo victory, me thinks. Not only in terms of actual music quality, but usage as well (very dynamic).

 

[Red Dolphin]

Goldeneye was a fantastic game but I don't know if it holds up that well today. I haven't played it for quite some time. Will have to drag it out again some time.

I loved the 1.2 Solitare controls (Turok controls) used in both Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. I spent so many years playing with those controls that I am really struggling to play console FPSs today with dual analogue. Since the Right Analogue stick is now the N64's analogue stick by default in dual analogue my brain has trouble adapting. I know you can switch the joysticks controls around so it matches 1.2 solitare except the right analogue stick replaces the C-buttons but then you can't access the face buttons without completely stopping. And it prevents you from changing guns, hitting ppl with the base of your gun etc while running in Halo. I just can't seem to get used to standard dual analogue! argh!
Also having played Half Life 2 recently makes me struggle even more with console FPS.

I still think Perfect Dark with a constant framerate would beat most console FPS on the market today. Just an insane amount of customisation, bots, weapons, and great level design.

 

[Kiriku]

Just an insane amount of customisation, bots, weapons, and great level design.

That sounds like Timesplitters 2...

 

[Red Dolphin]

That sounds like Timesplitters 2...

Yeah but Timesplitters 2 sucked ;P

I wanted to like it but there was just something that didn't click with me.

 

[Gattsu25]

Yeah but Timesplitters 2 sucked ;P

I wanted to like it but there was just something that didn't click with me.

the same can be said with me and GE...though I didn't think it SUCKED...I just didn't think it was great...I also feel it has not aged well at all as there are numerous games I enjoyed more (at their primes and now) that are readily available

 

[Red Dolphin]

the same can be said with me and GE...though I didn't think it SUCKED...I just didn't think it was great...I also feel it has not aged well at all as there are numerous games I enjoyed more (at their primes and now) that are readily available

Yeah but outside PD's inconsistant framerate I think it holds up very well today in multiplayer.

 

[LukeSmith]

Don't forget it has better[/sarcasm] level design AND it runs at about 12 FPS. :/

SELL YOUR NINTENDO 64s....
nevermind.

 

[Fowler]

You know... I really think that both Halo and Halo 2 have shitty level designs. Halo 2 has great MULTIPLAYER levels, but the singleplayer levels suck balls.

What I like about some of GoldenEye's levels is that it wasn't afraid to have short or small levels if it made sense. The ship you're in feels like a ship, not an elongated set of repeating corridors stuck together to make the levels longer (ahem, Halo). And the levels were fairly open -- not entirely so, but with objectives herding you from one place to the other the levels weren't totally linear.

As for Perfect Dark... the problem with Perfect Dark is that when it's good, it's amazing (the Villa is probably my favourite level of them all), but when it's bad, it's BEYOND crap (the Cetan Ship springs to mind). GoldenEye had a bit of a swing between the great levels and the crap levels (Statue), but not nearly as dramatic as Perfect Dark.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Have you guys actually played Halo or what? That's exactly how it plays. The battles are slow paced and require a lot of strategy. I mean, you could spend 10 minutes just clearing out one room if you really want to make it through cleanly.

I was simply talking about MP, not the single player mode. The Halo games also feature intense gun battles, but it's still much faster than a Rare FPS and I'm thinking that, although I missed the ability to jump, it forced you to think a little differently...perhaps a bit more limited in your scope of mobility during a fight...giving the fights even more intensity however forced. Too bad the TS series lacks that spark that the Rare stuff has...hell, the NOLF series is closer to Rare's FPS offerings than anyone else, even if it pretty shamelessly takes many ideas from it.

 

[jedimike]

GE was a good milestone for the console community... but anyone playing FPS's on the PC at the same time knew that the consoles still couldn't hang. While GE was the best FPS on a console, it didn't hold a candle to anything being done in the PC community. Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Deus-Ex, NOLF (although a bit later), Quake II, etc.

I love Halo 2, but even I will admit that PC's are still doing it better.

 

[DSN2K]

Goldeneye had some great maps, dont think I will ever have so much fun on a console FPS ever again.(not even Halo 2 surpasses it).

 

[rawk]

Goldeneye had great maps. Or maybe I just played them SO MUCH it was inevitable I would learn them inside out.

Perfect Dark had cool maps too. I espeically liked the Grid and that outdoor villa map. Can't remember any other ones right now.

 

[dark10x]

I was simply talking about MP, not the single player mode. The Halo games also feature intense gun battles, but it's still much faster than a Rare FPS and I'm thinking that, although I missed the ability to jump, it forced you to think a little differently...perhaps a bit more limited in your scope of mobility during a fight...giving the fights even more intensity however forced. Too bad the TS series lacks that spark that the Rare stuff has...hell, the NOLF series is closer to Rare's FPS offerings than anyone else, even if it pretty shamelessly takes many ideas from it.

That's exactly how Halo's multiplayer works, though. It's VERY slow paced and takes on an entirely different style of play in comparison to your typical PC title. While I do not particularly care for the controls, map layouts, and weapons of GE multiplayer, I can't deny that I appreciate the fact that it was slower in pace.

I love Halo 2, but even I will admit that PC's are still doing it better.

You sure about that? I'd say Halo 2 is easily on par with the best the PC has had to offer over the past couple years. It's better than stuff like Far Cry, Doom 3, and loads of other titles and can actually be compared to Half-life 2 in terms of quality (with people falling on either side of that debate). It's a good, quality game. The actual core shooting mechanics are just about the best ever made.

 

[fse]

Halo/Halo2 and Quake 3 > GE

 

[crumbs]

I enjoyed GE when it came out, but I never thought its level design was that great. Multiplayer had a couple of cool maps, but other than that, the game has aged poorly. I had a chance to play it a couple of weeks ago, it wasn't much fun.

 

[mumu]

GoldenEye MP is still not surpassed on any console as of today when it comes to fun. Golden gun mode in particular.

 

[fse]

I never like the GE MP levels...only the weapons :lol
Stop living in lalaland guys, that was years ago.

 

[human5892]

To this day I think I put more hours into Goldeneye than any other game. I even unlocked every single cheat.

Not having played every single console FPS since GE, I wouldn't know if it has been surpassed...but it was a damn good game for its time, and, IMO, still holds up today.

If a port was released that did nothing but increase the resolution and lock the framerate at 60 (hell, even 30, as long as it was locked) I'd buy it immediately.

 

[jedimike]

You sure about that? I'd say Halo 2 is easily on par with the best the PC has had to offer over the past couple years. It's better than stuff like Far Cry, Doom 3, and loads of other titles and can actually be compared to Half-life 2 in terms of quality (with people falling on either side of that debate). It's a good, quality game. The actual core shooting mechanics are just about the best ever made.

When you are talking about level design, enemy AI, music, etc., then I agree that Halo2 will stand toe to toe with the best the PC has to offer. Those are attributes that come directly from the creative heart of the developers.

IMO, GE was certainly playable but lacked that level of control and immersiveness that PC FPS have to offer. Just the nature of playing on a PC makes for a better experience. When you're two feet away from your monitor with crystal clear resolutions and super tight controls, you get a different sensation than from a console..

Even when I play on my 65" HDTV with 5.1 surround... I still feel seperated from the game. The difference between me playing Half-Life 2 and Halo 2 is that when I play HL2 I feel like I'm part of the game. When I play Halo2 I feel like I'm playing a movie.

GE was even less immersive because the controls weren't nearly as tight as Halo.

 

[dark10x]

When you are talking about level design, enemy AI, music, etc., then I agree that Halo2 will stand toe to toe with the best the PC has to offer. Those are attributes that come directly from the creative heart of the developers.

IMO, GE was certainly playable but lacked that level of control and immersiveness that PC FPS have to offer. Just the nature of playing on a PC makes for a better experience. When you're two feet away from your monitor with crystal clear resolutions and super tight controls, you get a different sensation than from a console..

Even when I play on my 65" HDTV with 5.1 surround... I still feel seperated from the game. The difference between me playing Half-Life 2 and Halo 2 is that when I play HL2 I feel like I'm part of the game. When I play Halo2 I feel like I'm playing a movie.

GE was even less immersive because the controls weren't nearly as tight as Halo.

I certainly didn't feel as though I was "a part" of Half-Life 2, though (thanks loadtimes)...

In addition to those aspects listed at the beginning of your post, I really think actual gameplay mechanics should be included. A whole lot of modern PC FPS titles simply don't excel in that department...

 

[jedimike]

I certainly didn't feel as though I was "a part" of Half-Life 2, though (thanks loadtimes)...

In addition to those aspects listed at the beginning of your post, I really think actual gameplay mechanics should be included. A whole lot of modern PC FPS titles simply don't excel in that department...

Getting back to the discussion of level design... GE wasn't breaking any grounds in the single player or multiplayer arena. If you want to know how to design levels then study what Valve did with Counter-Strike. Take CS_Italy for example. You can play that map a hundred different ways. Shotty squad through the apartment, skirmish in the market, sneak through the wine cellar, etc., etc. Almost every Valve created map has similar playouts... DE_Dust, DE_Prodigy, CS_Assault. Level design makes that game.

Bungie did an outstanding job with the campaign levels, but I would have like to have seen a bit more fine tuning in multiplayer levels. More Zanzibar and less Coagulation. There has to be more to level design than just throwing people in an arena and giving them equal vehicles and equipment.

 

[Caddle]

All this talk of Goldeneye not being surpassed is all bullshit. Most people blast Halo for being repetitive when it comes to level design, yet they allow goldeneye a free pass. Also don't get me started on the frame rate which induced headaches. It wasn't as bad as Perfect Dark but at least perfect dark wasn't so damn repetitive.

 

[border]

GE was a good milestone for the console community... but anyone playing FPS's on the PC at the same time knew that the consoles still couldn't hang. While GE was the best FPS on a console, it didn't hold a candle to anything being done in the PC community. Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Deus-Ex, NOLF (although a bit later), Quake II, etc.

Goldeneye was released in the summer of 1997. Half-Life did not come out for another year and a half....even further for Counterstrike obviously. NOLF was nearly 3 years after Goldeneye, as was Deus-Ex. Quake 2 was winter 1997, but the single player mode sucked ass and whether you liked the multiplayer better depended on whether you wanted twitchy arcade frag-action or liked Goldeneyes slower pace and weapons balance.

At the time, Goldeneye was nearly unmatched. The only game that came close for single-player experience is, amusingly enough, the one that you didn't even mention. Jedi Knight came out only a few months after Goldeneye and upped the bar quite a bit (at least for singleplayer).

 

[Deg]

Its excellent how GE is compared to todays games considering how old it is. Its a testamant to its greatness.

It also shows no fps has matched the impact GE had save for HL. GE went in a unique direction that no other fps has ever followed. Thats what makes it special.

 

[Nerevar]

This thread deserves a big :lol

 

[Deg]

This thread deserves a big :lol

Tell me about it. Its amazing how there are still people who cant accept GE was huge. Not because its the biggest selling console fps but because of its gameplay style.

 

[jedimike]

Tell me about it. Its amazing how there are still people who cant accept GE was huge. Not because its the biggest selling console fps but because of its gameplay style.

Nobody said GE wasn't huge... people are saying it was huge because it was a good console FPS. If it was released in the PC community at the same time instead of the N64... you wouldn't be hearing shit about it today.

 

[border]

If Goldeneye were released in the PC community in July 1997, it would have been even bigger because a lot of the gripes about it would disappear. Aim scheme would be easier and more straightforward. You wouldn't have to fight against analog when lining up a shot. Weapon selection wouldn't require you to scroll through all the weapons sequentially. Framerate would have been superb on a Voodoo card. Multiplayer would have accomodated more than 3 opponents, and wouldn't have forced you into a splitscreen mode.

NOLF was a Goldeneye clone that came 3 years late, and you still hear about it today. Same with Thief. GE would have made a huge splash on any platform, it was too different and unique not to.

 

[fse]

Wake up, GE is not what you guys still think it is. Its boring compared to FPS' today.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

worst. thread. ever

 

[Nerevar]

NOLF was a Goldeneye clone that came 3 years late, and you still hear about it today. Same with Thief. GE would have made a huge splash on any platform, it was too different and unique not to.

Wow, and I thought Border was a credible poster.

And NOLF was a much better game than Goldeneye in many ways. Goldeneye is pretty average in the grand scheme of FPS games, anyone saying differently is merely looking at it through the rose-colored nostalgia glasses. It's analagous to me saying "Final Fantasy 1 is much better than FF8." Sure, I might enjoy it more, because I grew up playing it. I know the tricks, and I know how to have fun with it because I probably put in over 100 hours playing it. And I hated the later FF games. But I'm not stupid enough to say that it is a better game.

 

[border]

So you're saying that Thief didn't draw anything from Goldeneye? Both NOLF and Thief came well after GE and were critical (if not commercial) successes that tried to extend GE's gameplay even further (Thief with a stealth emphasis, NOLF with an objective emphasis). It only stands to reason that their spiritual predecessor also would have met with similar acclaim on the PC, particularly given that Half-Life was a year-and-a-half away and PC fpses were just retreading the weary Doom formula.

 

[Tain]

So you're saying that Thief didn't draw anything from Goldeneye? Both NOLF and Thief came well after GE and were critical (if not commercial) successes that tried to extend GE's gameplay even further (Thief with a stealth emphasis, NOLF with an objective emphasis).

Call me blind, call me stupid, whatever, but I simply couldn't see a big emphasis on stealth in GE. Cameras could be blown out. Guards could *somewhat* be snuck by. But the alarms, the weapons, the general pacing... Stealth looked like an afterthought at most. I doubt Thief actually drew anything in that aspect from it.

 

[firex]

I can't think of a console FPS I've enjoyed more to this day than Goldeneye for N64. There are probably about 10 PC ones that I enjoyed more, but that's not a fair comparison.

same here but it's third for me behind halo/halo 2 for console FPS. for all the flaws halo/halo 2 have I just find them amazingly replayable, while on goldeneye i just never really wanted to replay it to unlock cheats.

 

[Anyanka]

Have you guys actually played Halo or what? That's exactly how it plays.

Yeah, and I love both(Halo 2 is my GOTY probably).

I agree completely...Halo and Halo 2's pace is the closest thing to GE.

 

[border]

Stealth elements were primitive because it was a primitive exploration of stealth. It's kind of hard to get the effect of Goldeneye unless you've spent the last 4 years playing FPS games where all you did was run into the room and murder everyone with a high-powered weapon....which was kind of the case in 1997. There were no traps, no shadows to hide in, but the game certainly rewarded people who took out enemies quickly and quietly (knife throwing rocks ). Rushing into a situation generally meant that you were going to die, having an alarm pulled or being spotted on surveillance was very very detrimental -- that is quality that it shares most with Thief. Stealth elements were the most important in the 00 Agent modes....it's kind of similar to Halo in that you will miss a lot of it if you just blast through on default difficulty.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

NOLF was a Goldeneye clone

Nolf had NPC interaction and non-linear side quests. NOLF had a great sense of humor and lots of amusing dialouge. NOLF had large, intricate levels.

GE had a movie license and no direct competition.

 

[FartOfWar]

Quake 3 on DC.

 

[Substance]

Wow, I've never seen such a Goldeneye backlash before.....
*returns to Golden Gun Multiplayer at Archives*

 

[dark10x]

Its excellent how GE is compared to todays games considering how old it is. Its a testamant to its greatness.

It also shows no fps has matched the impact GE had save for HL. GE went in a unique direction that no other fps has ever followed. Thats what makes it special.

I believe the Halo will be in the same position as GE years down the road. Halo 2 also somewhat mimics Perfect Dark, if you think about it...

NOLF was a Goldeneye clone that came 3 years late, and you still hear about it today. Same with Thief.

Put down the crack and remember the team responsible for Thief. The guys who created Ultima Underworld and System Shock (which is a better game than GE IMO and was released in 1995). BOTH games were WAY ahead of their time when they were released and both (particularly SS) are considered classics. Thief was an original creation and to suggest that it is a Goldeneye clone is an out and out insult. The gameplay and experience presented in each of the games was almost entirely different. Could there have been SOME inspiration there (the variation in mission objectives based on difficulty, for example)? Possibly so. ...but a clone? Come on.

I also think it's unfair to peg NOLF as a GE clone as well. The similarities are there, I'm not denying that, but they went so far beyond the GE formula and produced a superior single player game (though multiplayer certainly left much to be desired IMO).

 

[Deg]

Nobody said GE wasn't huge... people are saying it was huge because it was a good console FPS. If it was released in the PC community at the same time instead of the N64... you wouldn't be hearing shit about it today.

You mean how bust pc fanboys were busy defending Quake 2 :lol GE was popular with the mainstream over other pc fps for quite sometime.

Plenty of people played pc games back then. The fanboy pc community wont ever admit to it being a good game, to them they;d rather it doesnt exist. Other console fps are practically the same as pc fps except they use controllers. GE is a quite different game with control being one of the lesser differences.

 

[dark10x]

GE is a quite different game with control being one of the lesser differences.

As is Halo.