I am desensitized to fake violence. So it did impact me.
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Does it ever bother you that so many kids play M rated games?
- Thread starter guek
- Start date
I am desensitized to fake violence. So it did impact me.
I do think it's a bit unsettling. It also troubles me that it seems part of being a member of 'gaming culture' means you have to defend any perceived attack on video games. Do I think playing GTA will make a child shoot up a school? No, but that doesn't mean I must vehemently defend the notion that virtually killing people for hours a day is probably not the most beneficial way for ten year olds to spend their time.
The amount of violence prevalent in games today is also worrying. I did most of my gaming as a kid on the N64 and PS2, and while most kids my age were buying up games like Goldeneye, Medal of Honor, and GTA, there were also plenty of popular nonviolent games like Tony Hawk, Spyro, Mario, and Ratchet and Clank that were also popular. Today's kids are almost exclusively playing games like Halo, CoD, Battlefield, and Assassin's Creed. The stereotype of the racist 12 year old on Xbox Live exists for a reason; they tend to play multiplayer shooters. Many posters in this thread have posted that they played M rated games as children and turned out fine, which is probably true, but because AAA games withe E and T ratings used to be much more prevalent, they likely also played those. As has been stated elsewhere in this thread, M rated games of the past were almost always cartoonish by the very nature of the hardware they were on. A child playing M rated games today will have a very different experience than one growing up on MGS and Resident Evil.
It is nice to see that a lot of kids today are drawn to Minecraft. I hope the indie scene can provide a lot more titles that can appeal to this demographic, as the big budget games industry is failing them.
The amount of violence prevalent in games today is also worrying. I did most of my gaming as a kid on the N64 and PS2, and while most kids my age were buying up games like Goldeneye, Medal of Honor, and GTA, there were also plenty of popular nonviolent games like Tony Hawk, Spyro, Mario, and Ratchet and Clank that were also popular. Today's kids are almost exclusively playing games like Halo, CoD, Battlefield, and Assassin's Creed. The stereotype of the racist 12 year old on Xbox Live exists for a reason; they tend to play multiplayer shooters. Many posters in this thread have posted that they played M rated games as children and turned out fine, which is probably true, but because AAA games withe E and T ratings used to be much more prevalent, they likely also played those. As has been stated elsewhere in this thread, M rated games of the past were almost always cartoonish by the very nature of the hardware they were on. A child playing M rated games today will have a very different experience than one growing up on MGS and Resident Evil.
It is nice to see that a lot of kids today are drawn to Minecraft. I hope the indie scene can provide a lot more titles that can appeal to this demographic, as the big budget games industry is failing them.
JakkuFurosu
Member
Didnt let mine touch gta (afaik,im sure his friends let him play) until he was 16. I made damn sure I sat with him first few hours so I knew that he knew it was a lol video game and nothing more.
sigh, yes im that old
sigh, yes im that old
I'm also not buying the "developers now have to make games violent so they can sell". That's some big baloney.
Mortal Kombat 1 gained recognition and a audience based on the violence and gore in the game, which was released in the early 90's. Doom 1 and Wolfenstein 3D, along with Duke Nukem 3D had great gameplay along with ridiculous gore/weapons and nude strippers, released in the 90's. Atari consoles and other consoles from the 80's had violent games, except the visual depictions of violence were incredibly simple.
Violence has been a part of this medium forever, gore and violence looking more visceral or realistic is the evolution of visual feedback and gameplay feedback. Violence in games and popular games being violent ones isn't some new phenomena.
Mortal Kombat 1 gained recognition and a audience based on the violence and gore in the game, which was released in the early 90's. Doom 1 and Wolfenstein 3D, along with Duke Nukem 3D had great gameplay along with ridiculous gore/weapons and nude strippers, released in the 90's. Atari consoles and other consoles from the 80's had violent games, except the visual depictions of violence were incredibly simple.
Violence has been a part of this medium forever, gore and violence looking more visceral or realistic is the evolution of visual feedback and gameplay feedback. Violence in games and popular games being violent ones isn't some new phenomena.
Says reality
10 year olds want to see Iron Man, not Saw18.
Really? I find that hard to believe. Kids imitate their entertainment all the friggin time.
Well I watched and loved horror movies every week growing up and didn't imitate it. I guess I'm a weirdo.
CaptainSlow
Member
This is true. When I was younger, my friends and I used to use Nerf guns and foam swords and smack the hell out of each other imitating the Burton Batman movies and Ninja Turtles movies and cartoons. They were Nerf guns and toys, not Bowie knives and our dad's gun collections.
That sounds kind of creepy somehow haha.
GoofsterStud
Member
As a parent it really bothers me.
I will even inspect teen games before I let my children play them. I also don't play mature games in front of my children. I will play them when they are at a friends or with mom.
I always get complemented on how well behaved my kids are. You can spoil your kids...you just have to know when it's appropriate. I also don't let my kids watch rated R movies...and some teen movies... Granted they are still young.
I will even inspect teen games before I let my children play them. I also don't play mature games in front of my children. I will play them when they are at a friends or with mom.
I always get complemented on how well behaved my kids are. You can spoil your kids...you just have to know when it's appropriate. I also don't let my kids watch rated R movies...and some teen movies... Granted they are still young.
Red Liquorice
Member
I think it just goes along with the video games as toys image that has always been with us. As well as being a part of a bigger problem of many parents not wanting to take responsibility for what their children are doing in their freetime (internet, movies etc).
I'd say the stuff in God of War is mild at best. We found porn in magazines when we were around.. 8 or so? Didn't hurt one bit and it was fun to look at.
Same thing with the violence really. I played Tekken while I was in kindergarten, and never really had any limit on the games that I chose to play, and I don't see myself limiting my own childrens choices.
Uhh, I'm actually more concerned about HOW and WHY they're violent rather than just the fact kids may be playing them. I played plenty of them when I was underage, but I also balanced it out, and the gun culture angle's been bugging me more and more. I'd much rather they try something like Nier or MGS that at least TRIES to have something of a lesson with the violence or even discourages it rather than just play CoD or whatever.
Just for gratuitous violence though, to be honest I kind of wonder if just letting them play something like Mortal Kombat and getting it out of their system at a young age would be best. Not, like, at 5, but at 9-13 or something, let the novelty wear off so they'd maybe care more about a game for being a game rather than a virtual bloodbath. At the least I wouldn't want further controls than we already have, anything further would just lead to chilling effects or barging into people's lives where it's not wanted and just pissing them off.
Just for gratuitous violence though, to be honest I kind of wonder if just letting them play something like Mortal Kombat and getting it out of their system at a young age would be best. Not, like, at 5, but at 9-13 or something, let the novelty wear off so they'd maybe care more about a game for being a game rather than a virtual bloodbath. At the least I wouldn't want further controls than we already have, anything further would just lead to chilling effects or barging into people's lives where it's not wanted and just pissing them off.
Omnistalgic
Member
isn't this also an issue though, in that you/or your kid can be exposed to others who aren't raised well? And while your kid can handle playing shoot-em up ban bang, his peers often times cannot. He begins to think racial slurs are humorous instead of negative like you taught him. I'm of the opinion that it really doesn't matter where violence comes from, if it's violence for the sake of being violent, I try to simply avoid it, as glorifying death is bad taste to me..
Not to offend or anything or even make the accusation that you are, but I hope you realize it's kinda funny since from the perspective of everyone else that's not you, it's certainly a possibility.
No environment is perfect for a human being, there isn't a perfect way of feeding or shaping a kid into a decent and well adjusted adult. No form of media can be proven to make a kid a good person or well adjusted, thinking that's possible is naive.
This is illogical. By your definition, there is no such thing as material unsuitable for children.
pizzapizza64
Member
Having a kid makes me look at this completely differently than i did as a teenager. I don't see any tangible benefit to letting a child play an extremely violent game...something with realistic murder scenes for instance.
Yes, Bioshock Infinite and TLoU are excellent games, but there are plenty of other more age-appropriate games such as Super Mario Galaxy, Rayman, Ratchet and Clank, Guacamelee, Street Fighter, Marvel Vs. Capcom, Forza, Smash Bros, Zelda, Spelunky, FTL, Civ, Sim City, Pikmin, etc.
So the argument of "But Dad, none of these other games are any fun" is ridiculous.
M rated games have no place for kids under 16 or so. That's my opinion of course, but I still just don't see what good is supposed to come of 12 year olds shooting people in the head in CoD.
Yes, Bioshock Infinite and TLoU are excellent games, but there are plenty of other more age-appropriate games such as Super Mario Galaxy, Rayman, Ratchet and Clank, Guacamelee, Street Fighter, Marvel Vs. Capcom, Forza, Smash Bros, Zelda, Spelunky, FTL, Civ, Sim City, Pikmin, etc.
So the argument of "But Dad, none of these other games are any fun" is ridiculous.
M rated games have no place for kids under 16 or so. That's my opinion of course, but I still just don't see what good is supposed to come of 12 year olds shooting people in the head in CoD.
This is kind of my point though, I get that gore can be more disturbing to some, but the thought of nuking people is much worse than anything present in both God of War and Gears of War, or whatever else if you ask me. I'd rather have my kids playing gorier games that are over the top on purpose than something like TLOU or war stuff.
And about the sex thing, the whole minigame is such a joke(kind of the point anyway), I just don't see how that would mentally scar anyone.
mapachealocado
Member
Kids playing M rated games don't bother me. What bothers me is the fact that parents don't take the time to spend time with their kids and explain that it's just fantasy/entertainment/whatever and guide them through that. A lot of them don't care what kinds of content their kids are consuming as long as they leave them alone and that's troubling.
Kinect Adventures and Minecraft are the only top ten best selling Xbox 360 games without an M rating. The PS3 only has Gran Tourismo and Motorstorm in its top ten list. Comparatively, 50% of the PS2's top ten games don't have an M rating. The original Metal Gear Solid is the only M rated game in the top ten best seller's list for the original Playstation, and it's number 8.
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
I work retail management, and I've always hated selling shit like GTA to 5 year old kids. I actually had to sell a copy of GTAIV to, literally, a four or five year old kid and I looked at his mother and wanted to smack her. I surely wouldn't let my kids play stuff like that until they were older but parents do not seem to give a crap what their kids are playing.
Possibly, I have spiked red hair and painted toe nails, but I doubt that has much to do with games or movies.
In terms of violence in real life, the only time I've been a part of it, is to defend those I love from thugs. If that makes me a monster, then so be it, but that seems like a fairly natural reaction.
Omnistalgic
Member
yea me too...my wife cringes at certain parts in TLOU and I just look at her like she's crazy...lol...
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
My kid was playing Zero Escape yesterday since I just got a Vita.
Didn't even realize it was M rated.
I played up until where he got, and other than some weirdness and a couple swear words.. whatever... I'm just stoked he solved three freaking rooms.. he's 8.
Didn't even realize it was M rated.
I played up until where he got, and other than some weirdness and a couple swear words.. whatever... I'm just stoked he solved three freaking rooms.. he's 8.
Well said!
freenudemacusers
Member
I don't know if it bothers me, but I will definitely restrict my kid's access to adult-oriented content (regardless of delivery method) until I feel they are of an appropriate age.
My wife watches some surgery shows and I can't handle it. I have to look away. I can watch Saw or Hostel though.
The fact that children will likely sneak off and discover 'naughty' things on their own doesn't mean that parents should throw caution to the wind and introduce their kids to all these things themselves. It's just like not cursing in front of your child despite the fact that he talks like a sailor when he's in the cafeteria with his friends. Even if a kid is experiencing it on his/her own doesn't mean a parent should condone it.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
yes, because they ruin my enjoyment of those games
pizzapizza64
Member
Having a kid makes me look at this completely differently than i did as a teenager. I don't see any tangible benefit to letting a child play an extremely violent game...something with realistic murder scenes for instance.
Yes, Bioshock Infinite and TLoU are excellent games, but there are plenty of other more age-appropriate games such as Super Mario Galaxy, Rayman, Ratchet and Clank, Guacamelee, Street Fighter, Marvel Vs. Capcom, Forza, Smash Bros, Zelda, Spelunky, FTL, Civ, Sim City, Pikmin, etc.
So the argument of "But Dad, none of these other games are any fun" is ridiculous.
M rated games have no place for kids under 16 or so. That's my opinion of course, but I still just don't see what good is supposed to come of 12 year olds shooting people in the head in CoD.
Yes, Bioshock Infinite and TLoU are excellent games, but there are plenty of other more age-appropriate games such as Super Mario Galaxy, Rayman, Ratchet and Clank, Guacamelee, Street Fighter, Marvel Vs. Capcom, Forza, Smash Bros, Zelda, Spelunky, FTL, Civ, Sim City, Pikmin, etc.
So the argument of "But Dad, none of these other games are any fun" is ridiculous.
M rated games have no place for kids under 16 or so. That's my opinion of course, but I still just don't see what good is supposed to come of 12 year olds shooting people in the head in CoD.
depends on the kid. I will say most probably shouldn't be watching that stuff, and if they are, it's possibly out of ignorance/negligence of the parents not paying attention.
But some can deal with that shit just fine. I remember being a kid and wanting to see horror movies or whatever way before i was allowed to.
I guess with how crazy photorealistic everything is, it's a different matter.... I dunno. Hopefully i can keep ontop of this shit as a parent and atleast be there when my kid is exposed to this stuff....
But some can deal with that shit just fine. I remember being a kid and wanting to see horror movies or whatever way before i was allowed to.
I guess with how crazy photorealistic everything is, it's a different matter.... I dunno. Hopefully i can keep ontop of this shit as a parent and atleast be there when my kid is exposed to this stuff....
Oh man I loved doing this when I worked at Game. People think we do it for fun, but in the UK at least we could be fined up to £10000 if we were found not to be checking appropriately.
What bothers me most about this age debate is the different attitude the parents have with games compared to movies.
Show most parents an 18 film and they will more than likely dismiss the possibility of their 12 year old kid watching it immediately. But with a game they will rarely have any issue buying an 18 rated game for the 12 year old.
The parents have no idea about the content of the games but will happily buy them anyway. The difference in attitudes to age ratings in films compared to games by most parents is staggering. I have no problem with it if the parent knows what they are buying for their kids instead of blindly doing it
See, this is exactly why I don't care about the rating so much as WHY it got that rating, blindly following those can also be pretty bad to me, as I actually expect only a very small, select group of M rated games aren't suitable for, say, 14-16 year olds at the least. Especially when the game only got it over a T because of a single design (most Megami Tensei games where Mara shows up), or is a game that got T rated for one or two things but would probably be just fine for most 5 year olds. I really wouldn't hesitate to let them play Smash Bros, and Earthbound's more a matter of literacy (nevermind that it originally was an E/K-A rated game.)
Matters how receptive the child is to the world around him or herself. I sure plenty of ill minded people grew up watching Barney or Sesame Street. You can't create a positive minded or well adjusted person based on what you feel they should be entertained by or engaged by.
The Wii is the best selling console this gen, and Mario Kart along with other Nintendo IP's smoked mature rated franchises. Also show me what lists you're referring to for reference.
soulassssns
Banned
No it doesnt
ZQQLANDER
Member
It definitely concerns me. I'm uncomfortable playing some of the games myself particularly the Gears series.
IMO, Kids are playing way to many video games IN GENERAL these days. Shouldn't they be outside playing or something? When I was a kid my Mom would lock me and my brother out of the house and make us drink water from the hose. We would have a blast playing outside THE ENTIRE DAY.
IMO, Kids are playing way to many video games IN GENERAL these days. Shouldn't they be outside playing or something? When I was a kid my Mom would lock me and my brother out of the house and make us drink water from the hose. We would have a blast playing outside THE ENTIRE DAY.
idrinkalone
Banned
I got carded buying halo 4. I was 29.
abstract alien
Member
Watched a ton of M(and X) rated material as a kid as countless others have. I don't really care, so long as they know the difference. Public school is much worse than anything I've ever seen, so it shouldn't be an issue, in that sense.
There are just as many adults that get negatively impacted by this sort of material as kids, so age isn't the issue. It's mental status and malleability to influences , or something to that degree. Same reason you see young kids that have more sense than some adults.
There are just as many adults that get negatively impacted by this sort of material as kids, so age isn't the issue. It's mental status and malleability to influences , or something to that degree. Same reason you see young kids that have more sense than some adults.
Yes, few things about gaming bother me more. No one under 15 should play a Call of Duty or other M-rated FPS game, ditto with GTA and the like. Companies and developers should take a hard stance against underaged customers. There was a tweet from launch night of BLOPS2 of Treyarch celebrating this grandmother buying the game for her 8-year-old kid and I almost wanted to throw up.
RPGCrazied
Member
I will never have kids, so, but not really. Though I think 14 and under have no reason to be playing call of duty or any other violent game. They should be playing Mario, mostly anything from Nintendo.
To me the heart of the issue isn't that the games should be authorized or not, it's that kids themselves would get really into it and would WANT to play that sort of shit. It's a thought that disturbs me more.
Even tho I had the choice I wasn't fond of gory genres as a kid, and as an adult I still dislike gratuitous depictions. That's where the issue should stop itself.
Even tho I had the choice I wasn't fond of gory genres as a kid, and as an adult I still dislike gratuitous depictions. That's where the issue should stop itself.
Blame computing power getting more advanced and technology in general being more advanced. If iPads were around when you were a child less kids would entertain themselves by playing around outside.
I just hate when they're pricks about it. Which is most of the time.
And I usually hear people say "Well I did it when I was their age," but my thought is always, "Well, that's not you. That's another being completely." Playing an M-rated game (or consuming more 'mature' media in general) could have an entirely different effect on them than it did to you. *shrug*
But back to the general topic at hand, I think it's stupid when they gloat about it, or act like it makes them cool. It's just like, chill out kid, it's just a game.
And I usually hear people say "Well I did it when I was their age," but my thought is always, "Well, that's not you. That's another being completely." Playing an M-rated game (or consuming more 'mature' media in general) could have an entirely different effect on them than it did to you. *shrug*
But back to the general topic at hand, I think it's stupid when they gloat about it, or act like it makes them cool. It's just like, chill out kid, it's just a game.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Well, my line with him has also been I don't do anything with gore or extreme violence or crime.. so no Gears, GTA, God of War, etc. I let him play CoD with bots, and we play together.. he also plays Battlefield.. but I changed the language to french so the swear words were in a different language. Always mute everyone.
If you asked my 5yr old, her favorite games are Little Big Planet 2, Gary's mod, and Minecraft.
My 8yr old pretty much beat Infamous 1 and 2 and he's beat Half-Life 2.. he also loves FTL. He also knew playing Infamous if he injured civilian, that he healed them or the game was off. He plays a lot of RTS, and loves Company of Heroes and Supreme Commander 2.. and he's played a ton of Tropico.
I play all the games first before he does, and watch him when he plays. He started with Sonic Adventure when he was 2.
who cares,
ppl have to stop babying kids.
When i was 4 i played killer instinct...
when i was 9 i first saw scarface (and prior to that saw lots of 'violent' movies like die hard etc..)
Do we really want to be so overprotective and shelter our kids from this stuff?
I turned out fine.
The problem is bad parenting and/or a child having some social/mental problem.
ppl have to stop babying kids.
When i was 4 i played killer instinct...
when i was 9 i first saw scarface (and prior to that saw lots of 'violent' movies like die hard etc..)
Do we really want to be so overprotective and shelter our kids from this stuff?
I turned out fine.
The problem is bad parenting and/or a child having some social/mental problem.
Mostly related to the topic at hand, but before I turned the age of 17 which most of you probably know is the age when you can buy M-rated games without a parent or guardian, there are numerous times I recall going to a game store or department store such as Wal-Mart or EB Games (my local mom and pop store too) and I bought M-rated games with absolutely zero problems by myself. Some employees at the cash will actually do their job and ask for I.D. and if you are 17 years old and some won't bat an eye as long as they get your money.
For example, my brother when he was just 12 or 13 had no problem buying a copy of RE4 at EB without me or either of my parents.
For example, my brother when he was just 12 or 13 had no problem buying a copy of RE4 at EB without me or either of my parents.
Wikipedia
You're right about those Wii numbers though. Can't argue with that. The Wii U's future is looking bleak though, so hopefully things either turn around or indies can pick up the slack so that children (and myself) can take a respite from mass market gorefests every now and then.
But that's not what's up for debate here. You CAN create a negative minded or ill-adjusted person based on what they are engaged by. Just look at the middle east or African child soldiers. This is not to say that kids who play violent games will grow up to become murderers but that's just a useless strawman argument anyway. Media can definitely be used to change how you perceive the world. That's the cornerstone of marketing and propaganda, and the reality of that fact isn't really up for debate.
I talked about this in my previous post, but even your second point seems kinda shallow.
WiiredShawn
Member
I'm 26 and don't have (or plan to have) any children. I can't speak for most people, probably, because I personally didn't play an M-rated game by myself until RE4 came out in 2005; but I was pretty squeamish as a kid, so it took me a while to adapt to higher levels of violence and gore in video games and movies. That said, I do know that lots of kids get their grubby paws on M-rated games quite early. I have parents in the classes I teach who openly admit to buying their young children (often boys, though this is a pretty rural, "traditional" area of the U.S.) such violent games, such as Call of Duty and Halo. In fairness, they also buy them games like Mario and Pokemon, so it's not entirely one-sided.
Personally, I don't think most kids under the age of 14 should have access to most M-rated games, if only because their minds are often trying to approximate what they think of as "adult" activities while lacking the generally adult ability of recognizing the game's thematic principles or how the game's representations sharply differ from real adult behavior and decision-making. This lack of perspicacity may lead them to the swear fests, where they think they're doing "adult" things (swearing, engaging in power plays, beating out others) without really knowing what they're saying or doing (and thus being assholes in the process).
At the same time, my fiancee was playing some M-rated games, like Silent Hill, when she was in her teens, and she had the maturity to deal with it (granted, she's always been a single-player-oriented gamer). So ultimately, like so many things in life, it boils down to the context: who is the kid, what is her/his maturity, and how do the parents feel about it? If your child can't help but scream obscenities in online matches at the age of 12, they're probably not prepared for those experiences. Likewise, as a poster said earlier, killing hundreds of people in GTA at the age of 10 may not be the best use of the kid's developmental time. But at the same time, wouldn't they likely find another outlet for their apparent aggression? For some of those kids, these games are an outlet for their adolescent turbulence; but that doesn't necessarily mean we should indulge them entirely because they need to learn to deal with their feelings and not simply vent them.
Personally, I don't think most kids under the age of 14 should have access to most M-rated games, if only because their minds are often trying to approximate what they think of as "adult" activities while lacking the generally adult ability of recognizing the game's thematic principles or how the game's representations sharply differ from real adult behavior and decision-making. This lack of perspicacity may lead them to the swear fests, where they think they're doing "adult" things (swearing, engaging in power plays, beating out others) without really knowing what they're saying or doing (and thus being assholes in the process).
At the same time, my fiancee was playing some M-rated games, like Silent Hill, when she was in her teens, and she had the maturity to deal with it (granted, she's always been a single-player-oriented gamer). So ultimately, like so many things in life, it boils down to the context: who is the kid, what is her/his maturity, and how do the parents feel about it? If your child can't help but scream obscenities in online matches at the age of 12, they're probably not prepared for those experiences. Likewise, as a poster said earlier, killing hundreds of people in GTA at the age of 10 may not be the best use of the kid's developmental time. But at the same time, wouldn't they likely find another outlet for their apparent aggression? For some of those kids, these games are an outlet for their adolescent turbulence; but that doesn't necessarily mean we should indulge them entirely because they need to learn to deal with their feelings and not simply vent them.