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[digoutyoursoul]

Yes, which proves that power generally doesn't matter for the end user, especially when Xbox is not a global brand.

PS3 played games worse most of the time, but for many users globally, Xbox wasn't even an option. It didn't matter in the least that it ran games better like it did to many people in the areas MS already did well. Brand recognition and game library mattered much more.

Look, you said this

"PS4 was the only time Sony had a powerful console than the rest"

That is not true

If it doesn't matter so much then why has power and resolution been one of the main discussions this generation?

Why have we had things like #PS4NoParity ?

Why has 1080p been a dominant discussion this generation ?

It's like the utter farce around the thuways, the Pete Dodds, the CBOAT account never happened.

 

[Novocaine]

Aside from internet arguments I don't think it will matter all that much. The people who truly care about performance are on PC. Console performance arguments have always been a wank.

Fans of PS4 aren't going to jump ship because of a little extra power, they just won't be able to use the "my chosen brand is more powerful than your chosen brand" argument any more.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Of course it matters, but what matters more are games. Then you need to factor in price to power.

Scorpio can't go cheap if they are that much more powerful. Imagine of the Neo comes out at $399, the original PS4 price, what can Scorpio do against that?

Release at $399 too? Which it will.

 

[Kyrios]

No I don't think so.

But that's my personal opinion as I only care about if the games are fun. Which console has the most junk in the trunk really isn't the selling point for me.

Plus looking back on the "winners" of the past 3 gens or so, the most powerful console isn't the most popular.

PS: Not knocking on those that are getting the Scorpio because it will be the most powerful, just wanted to clarify that.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Except Scorpio isnt "a little bit faster", its 5 times more powerful. Just like the 360 was to the Xb1.

And im not talking about Sony, im talking about Microsoft. However Sony approaches their console manufacturing is up to them, im explaining what Microsoft meant by beyond generations.

There is absolutely nothing stopping this being the next Xbox other than what your understanding of generations are. It doesnt matter if the Xbox One will be forwards compatible for a bit, it doesnt matter if backwards compatibility is guaranteed. You will not be getting a next-gen console from Microsoft as you know it, you will be getting Scorpio, and the console after Scorpio will be an advancement of Scorpio. This is the closest you'll ever get to the current understanding of what an Xbox Two is.

Ok...

So MS releases Scorpio 2.

So now your Xbox game has to run on Xbox One, Scorpio, AND Scorpio 2?

Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[onQ123]

It matters to the people that it matters to. Will it change the tides? I don't think so I think Neo will outsell Scorpio by a large amount unless Sony mess up somehow.

 

[SOR5]

Ok...

So MS releases Scorpio 2.

So now your Xbox game has to run on Xbox One, Scorpio, AND Scorpio 2?

Am I understanding you correctly?

No. MS releases Scorpio 2.

Xbox One gets phased out of support, it could possibly receive a very very shoddy version of games at that point in time but it will pretty much get abandoned and it wont be mandatory to support it at all. Now Scorpio and Scorpio 2 are the development priorities. Just like you dont really have to develop for the iPhone 4 or older versions of iOS anymore.

Things are becoming "Xbox" games, not Scorpio games, not Xbox One games.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

No. MS releases Scorpio 2.

Xbox One gets phased out of support, it could receive a very very shoddy version of games at that point in time but it will pretty much get abandoned. Now Scorpio and Scorpio 2 are the development priorities.

Things are becoming "Xbox" games, not Scorpio games, not Xbox One games.

Ok, so now you've release a Scorpio exclusive game. This goes against everything Phil said at E3.

 

[captainraincoat]

Outside if gaf most people cant tell the difference between 1080p and 900p so if they go about actually utilising the extra power dor more enemies....better ai....bigger levels then yes it matters.....if its pixel counting then no

 

[Inuhanyou]

Look, you said this

"PS4 was the only time Sony had a powerful console than the rest"

That is not true

If it doesn't matter so much then why has power and resolution been one of the main discussions this generation?

Why have we had things like #PS4NoParity ?

Why has 1080p been a dominant discussion this generation ?

It's like the utter farce around the thuways, the Pete Dodds, the CBOAT account never happened.

That is GAF and internet folks. That is not why globally PS4 has killed it this gen. The big
reason, is that Xbox...isn't a global brand. People don't care about what Xbox offers. It doesn't matter if its twice as strong or 20x as strong.

Brand recognition, price,game software libraries, ecosystems matter far more than numbers.

 

[SOR5]

Ok, so now you've release a Scorpio exclusive game. This goes against everything Phil said at E3.

No you dont, youve got an Xbox game that will work on Scorpio and a Scorpio 2. Scorpio isnt a new brand or system architecture its still just an Xbox. But its the closest you'll get to an Xbox Two with how theyll release consoles.

Theyre all running the same OS, using the same accessories, using the same infrastructure, using the same architecture. Just like iOS

But eventually the older hardware can be phased out of development. Just like older iPhones.

 

[EventHorizon]

So we won't be getting any more #PS4NoParity petitions ?

Phew

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but this made me think of a major problem Microsoft will have marketing the Scorpio. The PS4 and XB1 will cost less than their higher end counterparts and as such will be the mass market products. Outside of an initial surge for the Neo and Scorpio, the XB1 and PS4 should continue to make up the bulk of sales for the consoles.

What this means is that Microsoft can't play up the differences between the Neo and Scorpio because they have been, and will continue, downplaying the difference between the XB1 and PS4. If the PS4 is experience diminishing returns over the XB1, then the Scorpio would be experiencing that effect even more.

Meanwhile, Sony would not be so constrained. They can hype the difference between the consoles because they hold that power advantage between the PS4 and XB1 where most of the sales will occur. On the other hand they can concede the power high ground between the Neo and Scorpio, but compete there on price, a year's head start, and larger console platform install base.

 

[DirtyLarry]

 

[Mikey Jr.]

No you dont, youve got a Scorpio and a Scorpio 2 game.

Lol, you're twisting his words.

He made this whole spiel at E3 about there will be no exclusives games and no one gets left behind. Then when the time comes to leave them behind, he'll go "I said no exclusive SCORPIO games, I never said no exclusive Scorpio and Scorpio 2 games!! I trolled you!!111!"

 

[digoutyoursoul]

That is GAF and internet folks. That is not why globally PS4 has killed it this gen. The big
reason, is that Xbox...isn't a global brand. People don't care about what Xbox offers. It doesn't matter if its twice as strong or 20x as strong.

Brand recognition, price,game software libraries, ecosystems matter far more than numbers.

I must of missed all the media too with the same thing. Power, 1080p and so on.

Why did GAF and Internet folk constantly talk power then?

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make but this made me think of a major problem Microsoft will have marketing the Scorpio. The PS4 and XB1 will cost less than their higher end counterparts and as such will be the mass market products. Outside of an initial surge for the Neo and Scorpio, the XB1 and PS4 should continue to make up the bulk of sales for the consoles.

What this means is that Microsoft can't play up the differences between the Neo and Scorpio because they have been, and will continue, downplaying the difference between the XB1 and PS4. If the PS4 is experience diminishing returns over the XB1, then the Scorpio would be experiencing that effect even more.

Meanwhile, Sony would not be so constrained. They can hype the difference between the consoles because they hold that power advantage between the PS4 and XB1 where most of the sales will occur. On the other hand they can concede the power high ground between the Neo and Scorpio, but compete there on price, a year's head start, and larger console platform install base.

I was making a half hearted remark about a ridiculous petition revolving around power and performance.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Ok...

So MS releases Scorpio 2.

So now your Xbox game has to run on Xbox One, Scorpio, AND Scorpio 2?

Am I understanding you correctly?

Yes. To an extent.

At some point, the Xbox One/S will be cut off, just like a smartphone or tablet eventually has apps/games that are no longer written to support them.

As is my understanding, that's part of what UWP is intended to achieve. Going forward, games will be packaged up into the UWA and should deploy and scale across all devices it's released on.

 

[SOR5]

Lol, you're twisting his words.

He made this whole spiel at E3 about there will be no exclusives games and no one gets left behind. Then when the time comes to leave them behind, he'll go "I said no exclusive SCORPIO games, I never said no exclusive Scorpio and Scorpio 2 games!! I trolled you!!111!"

Im not twisting his words, hes saying there wont be any Scorpio exclusives. Because hes right, there wont be any exclusives to that particular piece of hardware, the Xbox One will still play the same games as Scorpio but when the successor to Scorpio comes then the Xbox One will have reached the end of its lifecycle.

Scorpio isnt a brand new refresh of all the software and architecture like previous next-gen consoles had, I really dont think youve still got it. I think it might be easier with this:

just look at the iPhone analogy.and pretend that Scorpio 2 has come out
XB1=old iPhone (hm it seems this isnt supported now)
Scorpio=recent iPhone (hey all the games still work fine)
Scorpio 2=new iPhone (wow its a big new piece of hardware, everything works great)

However XB1, Scorpio, and Scorpio 2 are still technically Xbox One's and they use the same accessories (even if the branding might change slightly), its just that Scorpio is the closest you'll get to the next big system from Microsoft. The Xbox Two.

Scorpio 2 and Scorpio arent their own separate entities either, again theyre still just massively refined Xbox Ones. But support for older hardware will be dropped, which is something nearly every electronics consumer has become familiar with and gotten used to.

TL;DR The concept of generational refreshes being thrown out means Scorpio is the closest you'll have to a next-gen Xbox, it has a power gap that the CEO of AMD themself deemed to be next-gen, and it has a power gap that was identical to the last next-gen leap. Scorpio may share the same games and OS as Xbox One, but eventually the Xbox One will come to the end of its lifecycle (by then it will have been out a very decent amount of time), This will be when the successor to Scorpio comes out, which again shares the same games and OS and other things in the Xbox family. Games wont be exclusive to one specific iteration of hardware but they will be exclusive to that ecosystem and scaled across it. Basically the iPhone but with relatively big gaps between releases instead of quick annual upgrades.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I must of missed all the media too with the same thing. Power, 1080p and so on.

Why did GAF and Internet folk constantly talk power then?

Because they are GAF and internet folk. BUt they aren't the ones who dictate the sales and ecosystem scales.

I'd say MS's early fuck ups in terms of DRM and other nonsense caught on with the average consumer and stayed around is why the US and UK went for PS4 at large.

 

[foolishoptimist]

Biggest issue around PS4 & XB1 was that XB1 was weaker, but more expensive.

I think the impact of the Scorpio's extra power will hinge on the price difference to Neo.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

Sure it does, I always play 3rd party games on the most powerful system. As long as it's not $599 US Dollars I will get one.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Because they are GAF and internet folk. BUt they aren't the ones who dictate the sales and ecosystem scales.

I'd say MS's early fuck ups in terms of DRM and other nonsense caught on with the average consumer and stayed around is why the US and UK went for PS4 at large.

Because they are GAF ? That's it?

Think I have said enough

 

[Crayon]

If some Scorpio games can demonstrate a clear graphic superiority to the best ps4 games, then there could be a meaningful shift of fortunes. However, sony studios produce a stream of graphical showcases so that will be a challenge for Ms.

 

[Metalingus5150]

We'll find out next year.

 

[Metfanant]

Yes, it matters..it absolutely matters. That being said, I'm more likely to buy a Neo...weird...lol

 

[The God]

lmao

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

It matters. But I would wager that unless Microsoft drops Xbox one support entirely, it's going to matter less in the long run once the existing base upgrades and the majority of of hardcore ps4 owners jump ship.

The fact remains that digital libraries matter. That more than anything is going to make changes of platform difficult 4 years into a generation.

The ps4 had the advantage of a great generational reset. Much easier to change platform when your old games arent going to work anyway.

Time will tell but as it stands I only see Scorpio energising an existing Xbox base and tempting a percentage of lapsed hardcore players.

I don't see it as a reversal of fortunes nor a threat to the PS4s worldwide domination. At best it may make the race closer in English speaking territories.

 

[MomoPufflet]

Well I'm definitely not rebuying both consoles again so it matters to me.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Because they are GAF ? That's it?

Think I have said enough

What have you said exactly?

I say in general, everything else matters more to consumers besides power, you say it isn't true but can still only point to DF technical comparison thread as to why it matters to anyone else at large.

 

[iNvid02]

if it really is the end of generational consoles and a new era of full backward compatibility, I'd just pick the most powerful iteration each time to get the best experience with multiplats. Chances are the power advantage will shift from side to side every so often, giving you a chance to catch up on the few exclusives you missed.

 

[LordBaztion]

If some Scorpio games can demonstrate a clear graphic superiority to the best ps4 games, then there could be a meaningful shift of fortunes. However, sony studios produce a stream of graphical showcases so that will be a challenge for Ms.

MS should be working with the bigger third party developers to get the best graphics those tf can deliver because having native 4k on their adds won't matter if the game looks just sharper than what is on Neo. The best they could do is to show a small preview of how Scorpio games will look like before Neo launches, then, let the internet do their job with comparisons.

 

[Inuhanyou]

if it really is the end of generational consoles and a new era of full backward compatibility, I'd just pick the most powerful iteration each time to get the best experience with multiplats. Chances are the power advantage will shift from side to side every so often, giving you a chance to catch up on the few exclusives you missed.

Full backwards compatibility doesn't mean the end of generations. Full forwards compatibility would mean the end of generations, because all games would have to work on all hardware, that includes games on the more powerful hardware being limited by the lesser hardware.

Full BC is what i think PS5 will do, while still allowing PS5 to have its own exclusive games to take advantage of that. Generational cycles are only limited to the en mass adoption of a higher base limit for what games can run on.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Depends what devs do with the power.

 

[suddenlyissoon]

We said the same thing about PS4 & X1. If it matters to you now, it will matter to you with Neo & Scorpio.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

What have you said exactly?

I say in general, everything else matters more to consumers besides power, you say it isn't true but can still only point to DF technical comparison thread as to why it matters to anyone else at large.

What I did say was one of the most prominent discussions this gen, not just on GAF, like you say, has been power and resolution. To say it doesn't matter, an awful lot has been said about the matter on GAF and beyond it. Now the games matter when that should be the case all along whatever generation and whatever platform.

 

[Inuhanyou]

What I did say was one of the most prominent discussions this gen, not just on GAF, like you say, has been power and resolution. To say it doesn't matter, an awful lot has been said about the matter on GAF and beyond it. Now the games matter when that should be the case all along whatever generation and whatever platform.

It generally doesn't matter to sales according to studies. It may matter to the platform wars crowd, but they are much smaller than the segment of players who decided what is a success and what isnt

 

[Elginer]

Doesn't matter to me but that's because I enjoy Sony first party games much more. You can have the most powerful console in the world but if the software there doesn't attract me it means jack shit.

 

[Arklite]

What I did say was one of the most prominent discussions this gen, not just on GAF, like you say, has been power and resolution. To say it doesn't matter, an awful lot has been said about the matter on GAF and beyond it. Now the games matter when that should be the case all along whatever generation and whatever platform.

You're both saying it matters to discussions on forums (hard enthusiasts), he's saying it's not a huge factor in consumer sales, which is likely true. Price and word of mouth is most important there. Anecdotally, working retail sales floor, I would agree with that.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

It generally doesn't matter to sales according to studies. It may matter to the platform wars crowd, but they are much smaller than the segment of players who decided what is a success and what isnt

thats my point, to say it doesn't matter, it has been everywhere this generation, forums especially this one, YouTubers with millions of views, the press on the web and in printed. Here in the UK the newspapers kept going on about it for at least two years. Power this and 1080p that. If doesn't matter then why would they make such an effort to keep going on about it for such a long period? And now another platform may have the advantage are they are going to keep pursuing that enthusiasm for power and resolution?

Don't know how old you are but even in the early 90's we had the bit wars, 16 bit, 32 bit, "Now you are playing with power", the Atari Jaguar 64 bit marketing. Sony with "Don't underestimate the power of PlayStation" for the PS1. Power does play a part somewhere.

In my mind though, whatever power, I would like to see more talk for the actual games themselves mate.

 

[Josman]

It certainly matters to me, I would love to get a Scorpio over Neo with those specs, but no.
For the general market, Neo is going to release earlier and probably at a lower price.
For the hardcore Neo is also a reasonable choice, because of the above and because all Xbox games will come to PC

 

[jgf]

IMHO power matters when released at the same time. If the release dates are to far apart people won't see them as direct competitors.

 

[Inuhanyou]

thats my point, to say it doesn't matter, it has been everywhere this generation, forums especially this one, YouTubers with millions of views, the press on the web and in printed. Here in the UK the newspapers kept going on about it for at least two years. Power this and 1080p that. If doesn't matter then why would they make such an effort to keep going on about it for such a long period? And now another platform may have the advantage are they are going to keep pursuing that enthusiasm for power and resolution?

Don't know how old you are but even in the early 90's we had the bit wars, 16 bit, 32 bit, "Now you are playing with power", the Atari Jaguar 64 bit marketing. Sony with "Don't underestimate the power of PlayStation" for the PS1. Power does play a part somewhere.

In my mind though, whatever power, I would like to see more talk for the actual games themselves mate.

I'm 27, thanks.

I'm saying at this point, power alone is generally nowhere enough to excite masses to change any kind of balance between the PS4 and XB1.

Price, games, and availability will matter more.

Which is where NEO will have the advantage if what we're thinking is the case, if iterative console sales even matter to folks

 

[Renekton]

Don't know how old you are but even in the early 90's we had the bit wars, 16 bit, 32 bit, "Now you are playing with power", the Atari Jaguar 64 bit marketing. Sony with "Don't underestimate the power of PlayStation" for the PS1. Power does play a part somewhere.

Do note that most consoles that touted power advantages (neo geo, jaguar, n64, 3do, og xbox, ps3, 32x) did not sell well.

 

[dreamlongdead]

A significant power gap will be a little worrisome for Sony, but Xbox won't do considerably better overseas just because of Scorpio.

At the end of the day, I go where the most appealing games are. There are several games that I can only play on PS4, and those ones are still more exciting to me than Xbox's offerings.

 

[iNvid02]

Full backwards compatibility doesn't mean the end of generations. Full forwards compatibility would mean the end of generations, because all games would have to work on all hardware, that includes games on the more powerful hardware being limited by the lesser hardware.

Full BC is what i think PS5 will do, while still allowing PS5 to have its own exclusive games to take advantage of that. Generational cycles are only limited to the en mass adoption of a higher base limit for what games can run on.

ah yeah I got confused there, wouldn't be feasible to not have a cut off point.

 

[Pestilence11]

Mattering and mattering a lot are two different things. It will matter to some and matter a lot to others.

Especially if the power gap is as large as it seems to be.

 

[Omnistalgic]

It does matter, just not as much as forum warriors seem to think.

I plan on getting a Neo, but I would like to always have a really powerful box, so when Scorpio does release, and I see games that look substantially better on it, it will be more tempting to buy for the exclusives. Have to wait and see how different the games look.

It could be a good differing factor, it could amount to squat. Only thing for certain IMO is games will do the talking.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

All of the sudden it wont matter anymore... unfortunately

 

[family_guy]

Release at $399 too? Which it will.

Yeah, no. Xbox One launched at $500. Xbox One S launches at $299-399. Yet you think this significantly more powerful machine launching in 2017 is going to be $400? MS won't be taking a loss on this. They can't despite having deep pockets. The Xbox division has been bleeding them for too long.

 

[Aters]

Depends on to what extend. The leaked documentation of Neo sounds pretty lame for something releasing next fall. I expect Sony to do better.