Netherscourge
Banned
I don't think it has anything to do with the heat sink.
I think it's all about the fan vibrating more when the console is vertical.
I think it's all about the fan vibrating more when the console is vertical.
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Does the PS4 have a heat sink design flaw that leads to vertical noise differences?
- Thread starter TheExodu5
- Start date
I'll help you. Look at where the ports are in relation to the exposed bends in the heatpipe structure. Notice that the bends on the right side and the system ports are on the left. When the PS4 is stood upright the ports are nearer the ground hence the exposed bends are further away from the ground. Therein lies the problem.
elementalsin
Member
There's evidence they run hot, but not unreasonably so.
That's about 60 degree Celsius at it's hottest point, which isn't outlandish, but it slightly troubling.
I've actually been surprised thus far at the noise levels between the two consoles. I realize ymmv in this, and there are some tests that have shown otherwise, but my PS4 quickly (as in within 10-15 minutes) turns into a jet sitting in the middle of my coffee table (eg, no enclosure) while the xb1 has been consistently silent since I picked it up.
NOT making this post as a console war post (so please don't try to use it as such), I'm actually concerned maybe my PS4 isn't cooling properly? Anyone else running into a similar situation?
Or just Mineral oil.
SolsticeZero
Banned
I'm sure it's cooling properly, but there's a lot more going on under the PS4's hood in a smaller space, so it's natural that the fan would have to spin faster to compensate.
This was my thinking but the OP's theory makes sense if the PS4 is using a heatpipe.
Heatpipes use coolant.
Bananajama
Banned
Or that. xD
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Honestly, this is pretty ridiculous. The OP provides all the context you need to know what he meant. "Flaw" doesn't imply "FATAL CATACLYSMIC FLAW THAT WILL END IN NUCLEAR EXPLOSION THROW PS4 INTO THE BLACK SEA RYSE IS THE NEW GOTY". "Flaw" implies "flaw". The OP made it clear that the consequence of the flaw was the purported differential in noise levels from horizontal versus vertical orientation of the console. No one is implying anything about it being a big deal. People noticed the noise thing, TheExodu5 (who owns a PS4) is making a quiet observation about why he thinks the noise thing is a thing. This doesn't mean he hates his PS4. This doesn't mean you need to hate yours.
The entire reason why this thread is a graveyard--I'll note that I just read it a few minutes ago and didn't do any previous moderation in this thread--is because people came in and because of their own agendas, read an entirely illusory agenda into the OP and responded to it. People saying "LOL, NO" are threadshitting. People saying "You guys will exaggerate anything" are threadshitting. It's really really embarrassing that this became a controversial topic. The only people treating the OP like it is a strong or hostile claim are the ones who are angry that they perceive it to be.
I expected the console launches to take the pressure off this stuff so that we could have more friendly conversations, but if it keeps amping up the tension then we're going to have to respond more and more aggressively.
It's not really an issue with the PS4 not cooling properly, it's simply a design decision. The Xbox One is larger and uses a larger fan. Upside: it will cool more quietly. Downside: the system is less compact.
You might want to call support. Mine is pretty quiet unless the disc is spinning.
There's evidence they run hot, but not unreasonably so.
That's about 60 degree Celsius at it's hottest point, which isn't outlandish, but it slightly troubling.
60 C is not in the least bit troubling, come on. Especially when that's the measurement from the exhaust.
Robobandit
Member
he wasn't saying that to you, look at who he quoted.
Sorry, read a bit too quickly there.
Yeah sorry, thought that was directed at me. My bad!
Same. Mine is sitting on a glass shelf and I only hear the disc or the HDD during spin-up and seek.
Huh? I was responding to the guy I quoted with the FLIR pics saying 60 C was troubling.
All good. Theory in the OP makes sense to me. Either because of the heatpipe orientation or covering up some vents when vertical, the fans have to spin a little faster and louder to dissipate the same amount of heat.
Dunno why everyone's having such a meltdown over that.
HappyHunting
Neo Member
Read the OP, makes sense, still buying a PS4. Why is everyone going nuts ?
The OP is well written and structured and presents a real situation backed by facts. He is in no way suggesting anything, he mentions design choices. Between this and the "made in Japan" thread.. I'm lost... what happened in here ?
The OP is well written and structured and presents a real situation backed by facts. He is in no way suggesting anything, he mentions design choices. Between this and the "made in Japan" thread.. I'm lost... what happened in here ?
Can't really be rectified without a redesign, as it would require a different internal layout. That is, unless they can manage to change the heatsink design without impacting its dimensions (not so sure about that). Honestly, it's not really a problem worth fixing since it's not going to get that much attention.
PJV3
Member
Ah, I read that other heatpipes are designed to cope with being vertical, are they more expensive?
Felix Lighter
Member
I am glad to hear it's going to be aggressively addressed. I personally haven't felt a desire to participate in many threads on gaf lately.
Use this phrase in front of any system or business analyst (or any analytical person in general) and you might face crucifixion
I think the problem is that you used "design flaw" in your title, kinda implying (not saying you did it on purpose, just the words might sound like this) "they dun goofed".
I'm rather convinced that it was rather the result of going for a compact design first, working from components of this particular size, and try to fit everything in the minimal space. Given this, they couldn't have had the heatpipes horizontal while the console is standing vertically.
So yeah, I'm fairly sure the responses would have been a whole lot different if your title was "Here's why the PS4 might be a bit noisier when standing vertically", or something like that.
FrostyTech does imply this, but I'm honestly not so sure, given that Noctua manufacturers some of the best and most expensive heatsinks in the business and they still say that their heatsinks are prone to this issue. I'd like to know what kind of heatpipes Noctua is using in their designs.
It could be that more expensive heatpipes are less prone to this issue, but given the fact that condensed liquid still needs to travel upwards, gravity should still have an impact. The impact could be mitigated by using a better wick, but I don't believe it can be entirely avoided.
DJ_Lae
Member
Makes sense to me. No idea if it's actually the case but it's certainly one explanation.
If it is the case, I'm sure Sony knows about it and was okay with it as it probably doesn't lead to massive increases in temperature (and thus fan speed) and judging by the innards orienting it that way allows the system to be a tiny bit smaller...or maybe I'm judging that wrong. That and more people likely keep it horizontal so they were more concerned with that orientation.
Either way, I'm surprised at some of the responses.
If it is the case, I'm sure Sony knows about it and was okay with it as it probably doesn't lead to massive increases in temperature (and thus fan speed) and judging by the innards orienting it that way allows the system to be a tiny bit smaller...or maybe I'm judging that wrong. That and more people likely keep it horizontal so they were more concerned with that orientation.
Either way, I'm surprised at some of the responses.
The PS4 would be quieter vertically if some small adjustments were made to the heat pipe. That's all the OP is trying to say. It seems completely reasonable. One of the teardown specialists could give us a definitive look at the part and really settle this.
It's possibly a small oversight with a fairly simple solution. It's also possible that it was done this way because of cost and the console can still be vertical without a problem.
This is some interesting original GAF content. Happy to see it.
graywolf323
Member
to be fair a lot of the people who got banned in this thread had posted when the OP was a lot emptier, TheExodu5 has been editing in stuff quite frequently
as originally posted it didn't have nearly as much content or sources backing up his hypothesis
Bob Dobalina
Member
The OP was pretty clear, and its extremely embarrassing to read the posts after it.
I think a good next step would be for anyone with PS4s and the official vertical stand to get decibel readings for their PS4s in both horizontal and vertical, with as large of a sample size as possible since some people claim their fans dont run as loud and some say they sound like jet engines.
I think its important to use the official stand as it looks to me that it allows airflow through the bottom of the console and likely reduces noise from the system transferred onto the table it's placed on.
I think a good next step would be for anyone with PS4s and the official vertical stand to get decibel readings for their PS4s in both horizontal and vertical, with as large of a sample size as possible since some people claim their fans dont run as loud and some say they sound like jet engines.
I think its important to use the official stand as it looks to me that it allows airflow through the bottom of the console and likely reduces noise from the system transferred onto the table it's placed on.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
I was attempting to highlight that it could have been worded differently instead of using phrasing that could easily disturb people.
And I still don't agree with using the word flaw, as I said earlier, it implies that it was unintended and Sony is unaware of it, when we really don't know either of those to be true or not. But, no, I'm not a mod so I'll refrain from suggesting how people phrase things.
purnoman3000
Member
As someone who has a PS4, it will never be vertical for me so this makes it a big meh from me.
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PJV3
Member
Looks like it's not going to change then, the revision might address it in a couple of years, though I can't see it changing much due to how compact it is already.
If the pipe were flipped it would work better when the console is vertical. If true; How would that not be a flaw?
His original post still did not warrant that level of vitriol. I'm as big of a PS4 fan as any other on this board but I don't understand people getting so offended at somebody pointing out that the cooling system is subject to the laws of physics.
Muppet of a Man
Member
I've always worried about putting any system in the vertical position for a number of reasons:
1. They all just don't seem to work as well when the disc drive is vertical.
2. I'm paranoid that someone is going to knock into the system rendering it useless.
3. Usually they require the purchase of a pricey plastic stand in order to do so somewhat safely.
1. They all just don't seem to work as well when the disc drive is vertical.
2. I'm paranoid that someone is going to knock into the system rendering it useless.
3. Usually they require the purchase of a pricey plastic stand in order to do so somewhat safely.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
I'm no longer discussing it in this thread. PM me if it's important.
You know, I haven't defended my position until now, but it's getting to the point where I'm just going to come out and say it.
I own a PS4. I do not own an Xbox One (nor do I intend to currently). I don't care about the console war...I am just trying to talk about a potential problem/flaw/design choice/whatever in a completely unbiased manner.
Please stop trying to imply that I am trying to "attack" Sony or that I'm trying to incite a war.
I own a PS4. I do not own an Xbox One (nor do I intend to currently). I don't care about the console war...I am just trying to talk about a potential problem/flaw/design choice/whatever in a completely unbiased manner.
Please stop trying to imply that I am trying to "attack" Sony or that I'm trying to incite a war.
PJV3
Member
That would be fine.
Some people are very sensitive about consoles, 2 seconds longer to load a game than another console is seen as world ending stuff.
Flaw doesn't bother me remotely.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Interesting spot.
Good thing my TV stand only has enough room for horizontal orientation!
I guess vertical will just make a bit more noise since the fan will have to spin up a bit more.
Good thing my TV stand only has enough room for horizontal orientation!
I guess vertical will just make a bit more noise since the fan will have to spin up a bit more.
Mine has been as quiet as a mouse, even after 5 hours of KZSF gaming last night. It's comparable to my slim, and my totally unscientific feeling is its a tad quieter.
If you're is sounding like a jet engine, Id say swap it out to see if anything changes. Could always be game / environment dependent; but why settle for less if it really is an fan / parts issue.
I do have a feeling not every component was sourced from just one supplier, which means there will be minor differences. Same as the different BD Drives back on the slims, even withing the same SKU's. Maybe you got a unit with a slightly louder fan from a different supplier? Or maybe the heat sensor on the silicon isn't calibrated right?
He wont ..
Thread derail total.
No one is questioning your intentions or you owning a competing product. It's your hypothesis, which you continue to think is correct when offered evidence to the contrary.
I'll say it again, a vertical PS4 would be the equivalent of first example in that Noctua pic. Watch the heatpipes when he flips it. Besides that the NH-C12P (asymmetric) & the Accelero are both wrong reference points.
No it's not. I completed the drawing for you.
The U bend is at the top of the heatsink.
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