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Dolby responds to Sony's PS5 3D audio claims

Lady Bernkastel

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Sony made big deal out of 3D audio. Microsoft had this in the Xbox One X along with support for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and WiSA, called Spatial Audio, but the implementation was purely software based. Xbox Series X will have Spatial Audio with a dedicated audio chip along with Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Windows Sonic(there own standard). Sony does not want to pay the licensing fees and cheap out.
 

Infinite_Trajektory

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i can hear the argument .
but as a whole company sony do that kind of R&D for other products, why not use it ?
While they do, Sony audio is currently at the equivalent of Aiwa. They've had a few good high end and a ton of budget quality AVRs and DAC's over the last ten years. But nothing to write home about. Their audio division is meh at best.

I have atmos setup and honestly it isnt anything special. But if Sony can offer real 3D audio with this, it is epic
If your "atmos setup" can't handle Atmos, it won't handle something that's exactly similar and won't even touch Aura3Ds tip. The hold back on ATMOS and DTSX is the media and current hardware. I'll agree that not all Atmos or DTS tracks are created equal. But I doubt they (Sony) pick up ground or reinvent industry standards. Otherwise it wouldn't be hitting a console first.

It's a proprietary sound design, limited by itself. Developers aren't going to necessarily code exclusively for it (outside of 1st party) unless it has some similarities to Dolby , WS and DTS.
 
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Infinite_Trajektory

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This and Hololens 2 has its customers(that unfortunately you cant convince GAF about).
Indeed.

There's some new developer talk about it at B3D and AVS for possible usage in color calibration as well. /endgeek

That being said I wish more would at least experience Hololens. They'd probably enjoy the hell out of it.
 

Lady Bernkastel

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Indeed.

There's some new developer talk about it at B3D and AVS for possible usage in color calibration as well. /endgeek

That being said I wish more would at least experience Hololens. They'd probably enjoy the hell out of it.
Mixed Reality is Hololens for consumers. Eventually(very soon) Microsoft will release its own Mixed Reality and enter the VR game, when the software is ready. Hololens is very expensive for general consumers because of all those sensors, it will take a decade to be cheap for consumers.
 
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cyber69

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The Kinect actual has many real life uses outside of Xbox, even in hospitals. So, they separated it from Xbox. This and Hololens 2 has its customers(that unfortunately you cant convince GAF about).
AR will be big in the near future, so I'll give Hololens a 👍 for pushing the medium forward.
 
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cyber69

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Mixed Reality is Hololens for consumers. Eventually(very soon) Microsoft will release its own Mixed Reality and enter the VR game, when the software is ready. Hololens is very expensive for general consumers because of all those sensors, it will take a decade to be cheap for consumers.
Mixed Reality in its current form is not Hololens for consumers. Mixed Reality is a confusing buzzword that is Microsoft's window in to VR, not AR (Hololens). Additionally, software availability and usability is much better in the VR space versus the AR space.
 
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Lady Bernkastel

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Mixed Reality in its current form is not Hololens for consumers. Mixed Reality is a confusing buzzword that is Microsoft's window in to VR, not AR (Hololens). Additionally, software availability and usability is much better in the VR space versus the AR space.
If they try to take the route of Google Glass and Magic Leap and aim it at consumers with a cheaper product, they will fail. Mixed Reality uses the same OS as Hololens(Windows Mixed Reality) and is the closest you will get to a Hololens for consumers.
 

welsay01

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"It is not correct that Dolby Atmos handles 32 objects maximum. As a technology, Dolby Atmos can support hundreds of objects simultaneously. Having said that, we refer to some advice from game developers who have already created content with Atmos support: objects are fantastic tools, but you should use them sparingly as regards their number in activity within the same scene. Too many moving objects can create a confusing sound environment."
It will be interesting to see if Sony, or Mark Cerny himself, responds to Dolby Atmos.
 
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thelastword

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You do know that Sony Music Entertainment exists right? Also you have no idea what their new tech brings, maybe they have new features that aren’t available on Dolby Atmos, or they want to compete with them. I guess you would have told them not to bother with Blu-ray either, I mean DVD was a thing. I really don’t understand what you’re crying about, this isn’t something Sony just threw together for the PS5 to avoid paying licensing fees. They are actually heavily invested in the Audio business.
People really want to question Sony on audio? That is straight bonkers, besides, Sony bought AudioKinetic WWise last year, people need to do their research. And you better believe that Sony's Gold headset will sell a tonne next to PS5 too...
 

TGO

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Even though I am a Home theatre guy, I recommend people look up Sony's 360 Audio.
There are hundreds of articles about it and they all agree it changes the way you listen to sound.
The fact they are incorporating it into a console if fantastic.
This is not the way the audio is outputted but the way its recorded too
 
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Elder Legend

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The ps5 presentation becomes more and more hilarious with each passing day. I can’t wait for the day when someone will discover the average clock speeds that the GPU&CPU are running at.
Expect the fact that this wasn't really a PS5 Presentation whatsoever but rather Tech talk instead.

Ps5 presentation will include the games, controller and most likely a few tech demos.

And no, I am not trying to defend Sony. I own all consoles and will be there day 1 for both systems regardless of the matters.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Expect the fact that this wasn't really a PS5 Presentation whatsoever but rather Tech talk instead.

Ps5 presentation will include the games, controller and most likely a few tech demos.

And no, I am not trying to defend Sony. I own all consoles and will be there day 1 for both systems regardless of the matters.
For sure. GDC tech-talk isn't for mom and dad looking for black box to shove under the tv to play Lego Adventures after dinner.

What Sony should have done is do the big reveal for gamers, then do a detailed Cerny lecture where all the key specs are talked about in detail.

Yet, they are doing the opposite. Those mainstream gamers won't notice as they wouldn't watch a Cerny GDC anyway (although Sony did email blast everyone so maybe more people watched it than than all of us think). The core gamers are the ones seeing this and grilling them.

If Sony showed a good reveal show first.... with games, splashy videos, form factor, the controller etc..... gamers would be juiced up. And if Cerny did a detailed review later showing some gimped specs, it might not really matter because good game demos will override whatever Cerny talked about on a podium.

MS hasn't gone through consumer friendly info either, but what they've showed is more info, nicer videos (not a guy standing in front of a fake audience) and even had the VGA video. There's more to work with. Even on MS's website, the info shown about Series X is better laid out. Sony basically splashed an excel chart on their Blog tab. It's not even on their main PS home page.
 
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ksdixon

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Microsoft Zune, windows phone, windows rt, windows millennium edition, sidewinder controllers, Microsoft Bob, active x, developers developers developers. Anything else I'm missing?
Windows Longhorn, WinFS file system, Surface RT/Surface non-Pro line, Windows 8's better touchscreen options than Win10's, Continuum/Centential for using iOS/android apps on Windows Desktops, Illumiroom, Hololens, PixelSence (touchscreen table for ordering in restaurants), Microsoft Kin phone, Microsoft Courier double touchscreen pda, I believe they gave-up on NTrigg pen digitizer technology and instead shacked-up with Wacom working relationship again.

God knows the state of their constant fluctuation between Windows 8/10 "modern apps", UWP, Progressive Web Apps etc.

They also gave up on Microsoft Edge and it's rendering engine (bink?) and turned it into Chrome Lite.
 
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Another stolen, repurposed and rebadged piece of tech Sony have now invented.
I don't think Nintendo ever got over Sony stealing their rumble pack idea 20 odd years ago.
There are others I just couldn't be assed.
 

Shakka43

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It's licensed tech. Sony's Tempest engine will never be. There is no valid reason for Sony to have wasted R&D on their custom 3D audio engine, they could have instead used that cash to improve the cooling system so the Playstation doesn't sound like a jet engine.

Opportunity costs, something Sony needs to learn and HARD. Microsoft seems to know how to pick battles, Sony doesn't. They're doing things out of pride rather than rationality.
How's life in the future, is COVID-19 completely gone?
 

draliko

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People really want to question Sony on audio? That is straight bonkers, besides, Sony bought AudioKinetic WWise last year, people need to do their research. And you better believe that Sony's Gold headset will sell a tonne next to PS5 too...
Sorry but sony on audio side has been dead for the last decade at least, nothing they make is worth calling home for.. Used to be great, used to... Now as everyone else I hope they get this right, but days of the Walkman are gone
 

Yujin19

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It's licensed tech. Sony's Tempest engine will never be. There is no valid reason for Sony to have wasted R&D on their custom 3D audio engine, they could have instead used that cash to improve the cooling system so the Playstation doesn't sound like a jet engine.

Opportunity costs, something Sony needs to learn and HARD. Microsoft seems to know how to pick battles, Sony doesn't. They're doing things out of pride rather than rationality.
Sony is already putting an Advanced cooling system in the PS5
 

THEAP99

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Mar 16, 2020
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This interview has to be one of the dumbest things I’ve read. Can someone explain why they’re asking Dolby about Sony’s audio? Somy isn’t even using Dolby anymore, Microsoft is. This seems strange to me they come across as salty and like this is setup
 
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RiccochetJ

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People really want to question Sony on audio? That is straight bonkers, besides, Sony bought AudioKinetic WWise last year, people need to do their research. And you better believe that Sony's Gold headset will sell a tonne next to PS5 too...
I do. On my PC I have regular audio, MS Sonic, and Dolby Atmos. Where's my Sony option? I'll happily check it out.

And Gold Headset? Are you the reincarnation of Monster?
 

cyber69

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They also gave up on Microsoft Edge and it's rendering engine (bink?) and turned it into Chrome Lite.
Funny that you mention that. They even gave up on their own command language (powershell) and integrated BASH (unix) :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Jon Neu

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Because xbox fanboys are so childish that they cant see tech as tech, they HAVE TO bash anything related to Sony to feel like they won some imaginary battle

I see this Sony solution as wise move. They get what they want, can modify it and it is made for games, not for movies(mainly) like atmos

I have atmos setup and honestly it isnt anything special. But if Sony can offer real 3D audio with this, it is epic

Maybe dolby could too, but why the fuck Sony cant use their solution if they want?

Oh, I forgot! Because xbox uses dolby so it must "win" because of dipshits and their fragile egos
This is actually about Mark Cerny low key attacking the competition and the competition responding to it.
 
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cyber69

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Wait what? I seriously was hoping that the 3d audio was just in addition to support to standard audio formats. Very disappointing if true.
The upside with Tempest is regardless of what the end users audio setup maybe, Tempest will support it. With Dolby Atmos, both the source device and output device must support Dolby Atmos.
 

Johnglen

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Expect the fact that this wasn't really a PS5 Presentation whatsoever but rather Tech talk instead.

Ps5 presentation will include the games, controller and most likely a few tech demos.

And no, I am not trying to defend Sony. I own all consoles and will be there day 1 for both systems regardless of the matters.
It was a ps5 presentation and Sony hyped it as much cause I doubt Cerny would spend 10 minutes trying to explain to developers what an SSD does. Anyway sooner rather than later we will have a clear picture of the ps5 true average clock speeds and it will be a glorious time. Let’s just say that people should dial back the talk about a ....10 TF ps5.
 

Kokoloko85

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It's licensed tech. Sony's Tempest engine will never be. There is no valid reason for Sony to have wasted R&D on their custom 3D audio engine, they could have instead used that cash to improve the cooling system so the Playstation doesn't sound like a jet engine.

Opportunity costs, something Sony needs to learn and HARD. Microsoft seems to know how to pick battles, Sony doesn't. They're doing things out of pride rather than rationality.
How do you know it will sound like a jet engine? You know something we dont?
We will see if microsoft are focused on good exclusive games for next Gen
 

DrAspirino

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People really want to question Sony on audio? That is straight bonkers, besides, Sony bought AudioKinetic WWise last year, people need to do their research. And you better believe that Sony's Gold headset will sell a tonne next to PS5 too...
Sony is an "entry-level" company when it's about serious audiophile components. DSDs are good, but MQA (Master Quality Audio at 24-bit / 192 Khz) is far superior.

Remember in the early 90s when there was the "surround sound format war"? Well, Sony had the SDDS, which gained almost no traction compared to Dolby Digital and DTS. SDDS wasn't superior at all and had the same audio quality as Dolby Digital (while DTS had better audio quality) and was equally expensive (or even more) to implement.

Sony had its own competitor to the MP3: the ATRAC format (on which MiniDisc were based). ATRAC never really gained traction in the PC market because it was a proprietary format, had the same audio quality of MP3s and had DRM built into it since its conception.

S/PDIF you say? well... it was a joint effort between Sony AND Philips, so....

And "Sony's Gold headset"? jfc, man! have you ever heard anything even remotely audiophile? try hearing some cans made by Sennheiser, Fisher Audio, Grado, Audio-Technica , KZ audio, Beyerdynamics, and others within the same price range: they leave Sony in the dust.

So...yes, at least I do question Sony on audio. I know fully well there are better alternatives.
 
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Infinite_Trajektory

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The upside with Tempest is regardless of what the end users audio setup maybe, Tempest will support it. With Dolby Atmos, both the source device and output device must support Dolby Atmos.
Eh, I'll use DPLIIx as an example and step away with advanced versus support. But that's a stretch to say. If you remember the SDDS days from Sony, you'll know it'll support output to better known surround channels, sure...but it'll be crap. So if this is truly an object based metadata layer like Atmos is, they will have to negotiate with manufacturers. I doubt this happening, Sony doesn't have the muscle in home theater or audio it once had.
 

Infinite_Trajektory

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And "Sony's Gold headset"? jfc, man! have you ever heard anything even remotely audiophile? try hearing some cans made by Sennheiser, Fisher Audio, Grado, Audio-Technica , KZ audio, Beyerdynamics.
My man. Whenever I see someone quote a Sony headset[7506, 1000mx3 and others],I point them to Grado or AudioTechnica. Especially Beyer or FA for the upper upper.
 

danhese007

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Proprietary 3D Audio format wars. Is there anything that people won't turn into a war?

Dolby atmos is a proprietary format. Want to add it to your speaker and audio equipment? you have to pay Dolby, want to add it to your game, you pay Dolby, want to add it to your TV, you pay Dolby, want to listen to it, you have to pay Dolby. Dolby sets the price for it.

Sony 360 Audio uses open standard (MPEG-H 3D) which does not require you to pay a license in order to play it. And since it is an open standard whoever wants to produce device compatible with said format (which is literally everybody) pays a license which is usually cheaper because it is an open standard. But the catch is that everybody already pays the license because it is bundled in the standard.

Sony is trying to do the same thing for games. Every major studio already uses Wwise for their audio so they bought Wwise and now they are trying to add 3D audio as standard to all games without requiring you the user to pay a license to be able to use it and you don't need to buy a special equipment to use it like you have to do for Dolby atmos.

As it pertains to this thread, yes Dolby does have a limit of 32 objects when it comes to games. But for Movie theaters it is 128. Sony is increasing this number to more than 200 for games according to the presentation. Again that does not mean Dolby cannot increase the number, but 32 is the current limit.

 
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DoctaThompson

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My man. Whenever I see someone quote a Sony headset[7506, 1000mx3 and others],I point them to Grado or AudioTechnica. Especially Beyer or FA for the upper upper.
Let's not leave out Audeze, Hifiman, Mr. Speakers, etc. But definitely same here. I'll always point folks to the better sounding cans, for same price or even cheaper sometimes.
 

draliko

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Proprietary 3D Audio format wars. Is there anything that people won't turn into a war?

Dolby atmos is a proprietary format. Want to add it to your speaker and audio equipment? you have to pay Dolby, want to add it to your game, you pay Dolby, want to add it to your TV, you pay Dolby, want to listen to it, you have to pay Dolby. Dolby sets the price for it.

Sony 360 Audio uses open standard (MPEG-H 3D) which does not require you to pay a license in order to play it. And since it is an open standard whoever wants to produce device compatible with said format (which is literally everybody) pays a license which is usually cheaper because it is an open standard. But the catch is that everybody already pays the license because it is bundled in the standard.

Sony is trying to do the same thing for games. Every major studio already uses Wwise for their audio so they bought Wwise and now they are trying to add 3D audio as standard to all games without requiring you the user to pay a license to be able to use it and you don't need to buy a special equipment to use it like you have to do for Dolby atmos.

As it pertains to this thread, yes Dolby does have a limit of 32 objects when it comes to games. But for Movie theaters it is 128. Sony is increasing this number to more than 200 for games according to the presentation. Again that does not mean Dolby cannot increase the number, but 32 is the current limit.

too bad it's not the user paying, it's the game devs in this case or the manufacturer when you buy hifi equipment. It's always a price hidden to the end user, or you think sony won't have to pay dolby, dts and thx labs to support their codecs on uhdbr videos? or BT for the gamepad and connectivity, or every other damn standard as always? The same as MS pays sony for BR usage, or hdmi licensing or hdcp licensing, or every other damn piece or software that isn't free (opensource doesn't mean free, btw mpeg cost 2.5$ for every piece of consumer electronic you make, either it decodes or encodes). Stop pretending Sony is a charity, they're trying to impose their standard to get royalties like they did on BR. And btw you talk about failed battles but keep forgetting betamax or minidiscs or psp (especially the go variant) or the rumble fiasco (done to avoid to pay royalties) or the cam fiasco (every player had it's kinect days, ms was way too attached to it and payed big for it, but sony tried from the ps2 era...).
Every company makes mistake and every company wants your money, stop acting like a fricking defence force and become a better consumer, an educated consumer that can choose whit reason. BTW the limit of 32 objects is not about ingame objects is about the number of output objects so the speaker you can setup (if i''m not mistaken but didn't time to read all the dolby patent) and i don't think ppl have space for 32 speakers at home (lucky you if you can)
 

danhese007

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too bad it's not the user paying, it's the game devs in this case or the manufacturer when you buy hifi equipment.
No you have to pay $15 to use Dolby atmos on windows PC. I tried the free trial and it wasn't worth the price so i'm using windows Sonic, decent and free,
 

draliko

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Let's not leave out Audeze, Hifiman, Mr. Speakers, etc. But definitely same here. I'll always point folks to the better sounding cans, for same price or even cheaper sometimes.
Had the chance to try Audeze, lovely lovely cans, way too pricey for me :(
In the price range of Sony i prefer AKG, i'm not a big audiophile i don't have the ear, the time and the money to sink in it (already spending all my money on mtb :D) but i hate cheap audio, when people tell me astro is top audio i get shivers... There are cheap chinese knockoff that sound better than those plastic obscene cans.