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Donkey Kong 64 coming to NSO + Expansion Pack on June 4th!!

I don't know why moves like this are being celebrated. They aren't releasing it in a way that can be purchased and played locally. It's literally just moving towards, "You'll own nothing and be happy." It would be one thing if it could be purchased OR accessed via Nintendo Switch Online, but moves like this are garbage and just proves that Nintendo will milk everyone dry, and Nintendo fans will happily allow them to do so. I'm not trying to hate on anyone in this thread. I just hate that these types of situations are being lauded instead of lambasted.
 
IFireflyl said:
I don't know why moves like this are being celebrated. They aren't releasing it in a way that can be purchased and played locally. It's literally just moving towards, "You'll own nothing and be happy." It would be one thing if it could be purchased OR accessed via Nintendo Switch Online, but moves like this are garbage and just proves that Nintendo will milk everyone dry, and Nintendo fans will happily allow them to do so. I'm not trying to hate on anyone in this thread. I just hate that these types of situations are being lauded instead of lambasted.
Click to expand...

Can you easily play Donkey Kong 64, right now if you wanted to, without emulation?

Could 15 year old Timmy play it without emulators or piracy know-how?

No? Then STFU and let ppl who could/would never be able to play DK64 play it in peace and convenience on their Nintendo Switch.
 
Nintendo not having all of their first party games available on day one for these subscription services is lame. What, are they afraid they're going to accidentally sue themselves?
 
6AE66C1D4959CBC2A18E42CCD93EE3F473C69471
 
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Gambit2483 said:
Can you easily play Donkey Kong 64, right now if you wanted to, without emulation?
Click to expand...

Not without emulation, no. That's literally the problem I have with how Nintendo released this.

Gambit2483 said:
Could 15 year old Timmy play it without emulators or piracy know-how?
Click to expand...

You can't call it piracy when you can get the ROM from the Internet Archive. And before you argue, "That's still piracy," the Internet Archive was able to host these ROMs after they took this issue to Congress:

In 2003 the Internet Archive, as part of research into vintage software archiving, discovered possible archiving issues involving the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. This could make it impossible to legally archive early computer software and games, even for accredited institutions wishing to store limited amounts of non-distributable, archival images.

It's vital to make proper archival copies of these artefacts, because the life of magnetic media such as floppy discs has been estimated at 10 to 30 years. Time is running out to properly archive much of this large body of work for safekeeping, to ensure it lives out its term of copyright and is available (in the short-term, under suitable copyright-constrained means) for posterity.

The Copyright Office holds a rulemaking proceeding every 3 years to:

"determine whether there are particular classes of works as to which users are, or are likely to be, adversely affected in their ability to make noninfringing uses due to the prohibition on circumvention of access controls."

As part of this rulemaking process, the Internet Archive submitted an initial comment in early 2003, and followed this up with a reply comment giving further examples of classic software that might be lost if access controls could not be circumvented.

Following deliberation, the Copyright Office ruled in late October 2003 that four exemptions should be added to the anti-circumvention clause of the DMCA, to be valid until the next Copyright Office rulemaking in 2006, including two that are related to the Internet Archive's original comments:
  • Computer programs protected by dongles that prevent access due to malfunction or damage and which are obsolete.
  • Computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete and which require the original media or hardware as a condition of access.
With the aid of these exemptions, the Internet Archive is continuing its work with institutional and technical partners to research and archive this at-risk software, and would like to thank all those who worked hard to help us achieve our goal.
Click to expand...

Source: https://archive.org/about/dmca.php

Congress convened and granted the exemption. Pay close attention to the "reply comment" link in the above quote, because the Internet Archive specifically stated they wanted this exemption to be able to distribute the content to others.

For that reason, the Internet Archive has begun to collect breakthrough programs by means of donation and purchase, transfer them to modern media, access them to ensure proper transfer and make them available to others within the confines of copyright law as historic artifacts.
Click to expand...

So the exemption they were granted back in 2003 and renewed in 2006 wasn't vague. They specifically said they wanted an exemption to be able to distribute content for computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete. Since the Nintendo64's end-of-life was in 2003, this means the Internet Archive was absolutely entitled to house Nintendo64 ROMs. This is also the reason Nintendo hasn't gone after the Internet Archive with DMCA takedown requests or lawsuits.

As an aside, if 15-year old Timmy can't figure out how to get an N64 emulator and grab this ROM, then he's too retarded to play the game anyway.

Gambit2483 said:
No? Then STFU and let ppl who could/would never be able to play DK64 play it in peace and convenience on their Nintendo Switch.
Click to expand...

Did you read my post? Where did I say people aren't allowed to play this? My entire comment was that I hate that Nintendo is forcing people into a subscription to play this rather than allowing the game to be purchased and making it playable locally on modern hardware. I also said this would be a non-issue for me if they released a version of the game that could be bought AND they allowed to be played via Nintendo Switch Online.

Calm down, man. Nobody attacked you.
 
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ADiTAR said:
what leak? was there more?
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It's kind of convoluted, but basically Nintendo posted a trailer a few months ago to show off some new features of the N64 app and people realized that the pixelated cover art in tge background included some games that hadn't been released yet. Among those games was Forsaken 64 (which has since released) and Donkey Kong 64 (which was just announced. It also included Smash Bros and Glover, as well as possibly Rayman 2.

There's more info here:
 
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thesplitsubject said:
Nostalgia aside, is this game good? Does it hold up?
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It had an extremely lukewarm reception even at the time. There is some real revisionist history with this game that I just attribute to people leaning into the meme and the DK rap.

It isn't horrible or anything, it's fine, but it isn't even close to the top of the N64 library. But it was their big holiday game, it's Rare, it definitely needed to be on the service.
 
nkarafo said:
I like to be able to play my games without relying on third party servers functioning and keeping them available for me while me having to pay ti keep them alive.
Click to expand...

OK, sure, but the post you replied to only mentioned playing the game, so I'm not sure what point you thought you were making with your "correction."
 
IFireflyl said:
Not without emulation, no. That's literally the problem I have with how Nintendo released this.



You can't call it piracy when you can get the ROM from the Internet Archive. And before you argue, "That's still piracy," the Internet Archive was able to host these ROMs after they took this issue to Congress:



Source: https://archive.org/about/dmca.php

Congress convened and granted the exemption. Pay close attention to the "reply comment" link in the above quote, because the Internet Archive specifically stated they wanted this exemption to be able to distribute the content to others.



So the exemption they were granted back in 2003 and renewed in 2006 wasn't vague. They specifically said they wanted an exemption to be able to distribute content for computer programs and video games distributed in formats that have become obsolete. Since the Nintendo64's end-of-life was in 2003, this means the Internet Archive was absolutely entitled to house Nintendo64 ROMs. This is also the reason Nintendo hasn't gone after the Internet Archive with DMCA takedown requests or lawsuits.

As an aside, if 15-year old Timmy can't figure out how to get an N64 emulator and grab this ROM, then he's too retarded to play the game anyway.



Did you read my post? Where did I say people aren't allowed to play this? My entire comment was that I hate that Nintendo is forcing people into a subscription to play this rather than allowing the game to be purchased and making it playable locally on modern hardware. I also said this would be a non-issue for me if they released a version of the game that could be bought AND they allowed to be played via Nintendo Switch Online.

Calm down, man. Nobody attacked you.
Click to expand...
They definitely have though. Quite publicly with the Nintendo Power stuff, less so public with the copyright infringement notices for roms.
The sheer amount of stuff removed from archive is evident via all the dead links. A good chunk of the reddit megathread rom links are doneso these days.
The "Champion Collections" have returned with bogus directory titles to try to thwart the ninjas, but a lot of those are gone now too.
There was a guy from IA on reddit talking about how if he even sees the word "myrient" in a title, he's deleting it because of how aggressive Nintendo and the ESA have been the last couple of years. And indeed a lot have been disappearing. There's still stuff from ten years ago too, it's odd.
I agree with you on your other points though.
 
IFireflyl said:
I don't know why moves like this are being celebrated. They aren't releasing it in a way that can be purchased and played locally. It's literally just moving towards, "You'll own nothing and be happy." It would be one thing if it could be purchased OR accessed via Nintendo Switch Online, but moves like this are garbage and just proves that Nintendo will milk everyone dry, and Nintendo fans will happily allow them to do so. I'm not trying to hate on anyone in this thread. I just hate that these types of situations are being lauded instead of lambasted.
Click to expand...
Yeah putting it behind a paid service without a purchase option is BS.
 
blacktout said:
It's kind of convulted, but basically Nintendo posted a trailer a few months ago to show off some new features of the N64 app and people realized that the pixelated cover art in tge background included some games that hadn't been released yet. Among those games was Forsaken 64 (which has since released) and Donkey Kong 64 (which was just announced. It also included Smash Bros and Glover, as well as possibly Rayman 2.

There's more info here:
Click to expand...
Dang. That's some proper detective work. Who knows if those games will actually end up on NSO, but the evidence is pretty irrefutable.
 
coffinbirth said:
They definitely have though. Quite publicly with the Nintendo Power stuff, less so public with the copyright infringement notices for roms.
The sheer amount of stuff removed from archive is evident via all the dead links. A good chunk of the reddit megathread rom links are doneso these days.
The "Champion Collections" have returned with bogus directory titles to try to thwart the ninjas, but a lot of those are gone now too.
There was a guy from IA on reddit talking about how if he even sees the word "myrient" in a title, he's deleting it because of how aggressive Nintendo and the ESA have been the last couple of years. And indeed a lot have been disappearing. There's still stuff from ten years ago too, it's odd.
I agree with you on your other points though.
Click to expand...

I was specifically talking about ROMs from the early 2000s and Internet Archive being able to host and distribute those ROMs that required obsolete hardware. Reddit megathread ROM links weren't typically pointing to a place that was legally able to host the ROM files. I don't know anything about Myrient, and I also can't find a source for that claim, so I can't speak to that point.

Hnestly, my overall point (which I believe you said you agree with) was that I wish Nintendo would release the older titles in a purchasable format not tied to a subscription. I'm not a fan of subscriptions. Everything has gone that route, and subscription creep is real. I hate thinking about what this could look like in another 10 years or so.
 
IFireflyl said:
Not without emulation, no. That's literally the problem I have with how Nintendo released this.
Click to expand...
Whatever way Nintendo re-releases the game, it's still going to be played via emulation.
Having the ability to buy the games makes no difference in the way you play them (ie, if the official emulation sucks, you'd complain, and probably not even buy the games, anyway), and when the hardware dies or gets discontinued, you'll go back to playing the games via unofficial emulation on different hardware.

This, of course, applies to all old games getting re-released on any platform, from any hardware maker.
Nobody is ever going to re-release physical hardware, so those games are going to be only available via emulation till the end of time. Retro consoles are just pretty emulation boxes, and quite limited at that, too. The Neo Geo AES+ is the only known exception, as far as we know, and that comes for a pretty penny.

And you can only say that you "own" your ROMs, however you got them, because nobody has decided to go door to door and check if you have them without the copyright holder's consent. This isn't a matter of property, and it can be argued that it never was. It's just that games inconveniently needed physical media to run on in the past, so the "you're just buying a license" card couldn't be played so easily by the copyright owners.


IFireflyl said:
You can't call it piracy when you can get the ROM from the Internet Archive. And before you argue, "That's still piracy," the Internet Archive was able to host these ROMs after they took this issue to Congress:

As an aside, if 15-year old Timmy can't figure out how to get an N64 emulator and grab this ROM, then he's too retarded to play the game anyway.

My entire comment was that I hate that Nintendo is forcing people into a subscription to play
Click to expand...
So… little Timmy is retarded if he can't figure out a way to play this game unofficially, but Nintendo is… forcing people to use and pay for their subscription service.

How does this make sense, again?
 
Well, well, topic has gone to shit quickly. Gamers are miserable, indeed

I didn't like this game when I tried, but is good too see that shwarma seems willing to keep playing ball with Nintendo for now. Play while you can, people.
 
NeoIkaruGAF said:
Whatever way Nintendo re-releases the game, it's still going to be played via emulation.
Having the ability to buy the games makes no difference in the way you play them (ie, if the official emulation sucks, you'd complain, and probably not even buy the games, anyway), and when the hardware dies or gets discontinued, you'll go back to playing the games via unofficial emulation on different hardware.

This, of course, applies to all old games getting re-released on any platform, from any hardware maker.
Nobody is ever going to re-release physical hardware, so those games are going to be only available via emulation till the end of time. Retro consoles are just pretty emulation boxes, and quite limited at that, too. The Neo Geo AES+ is the only known exception, as far as we know, and that comes for a pretty penny.
Click to expand...
He's obviously referring to unofficial emulation software with that comment. This wasn't needed because no one is obviously asking for Nintendo to come up with a hardware-based solution, lol.
Gambit2483 said:
I mean, when N64 consoles and cartridges are in short supply and/or expensive af (think Millions of potential players), Hell yeah.
Click to expand...
Having an official option is always nice, but convenience doesn't need to be official, and DK64 is a good example of that. Easily found on the internet and can be played on virtually every PC and smartphone out there.
 
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Gambit2483 said:
Can you easily play Donkey Kong 64, right now if you wanted to, without emulation?

Could 15 year old Timmy play it without emulators or piracy know-how?

No? Then STFU and let ppl who could/would never be able to play DK64 play it in peace and convenience on their Nintendo Switch.
Click to expand...
You did not read a word he typed huh? Mate, I am happy it is being released on NSO too, but it would be even better if they ALSO allowed you to purchase it DIGITALLY and keep it.

Next time you rush to defend the honour of a company, maybe at least read what the "enemy" said ok ;)?
 
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IFireflyl said:
I don't know why moves like this are being celebrated. They aren't releasing it in a way that can be purchased and played locally. It's literally just moving towards, "You'll own nothing and be happy." It would be one thing if it could be purchased OR accessed via Nintendo Switch Online, but moves like this are garbage and just proves that Nintendo will milk everyone dry, and Nintendo fans will happily allow them to do so. I'm not trying to hate on anyone in this thread. I just hate that these types of situations are being lauded instead of lambasted.
Click to expand...

It's not that deep. There are N64 cartridges that exist. You can buy them. You can buy the console. You can also pirate the living shit out of this game and play it by software emulation, FPGA or even by everdrive on original console. This is just a convenient way for the average Switch owner to be able to play this game for a reasonable (not GREAT, but reasonable) price in an easy way. Barring the emulation being ass, which Nintendo has done in the past with NSO multiple times, it IS something to be celebrated.
 
Gambit2483 said:
Can you easily play Donkey Kong 64, right now if you wanted to, without emulation?

Could 15 year old Timmy play it without emulators or piracy know-how?

No? Then STFU and let ppl who could/would never be able to play DK64 play it in peace and convenience on their Nintendo Switch.
Click to expand...
I could if Nintendo just sold it on the eshop like any other game. Like they did on the Wii.

Fuck subscriptions.
 
Grenseal said:
Nintendo not having all of their first party games available on day one for these subscription services is lame. What, are they afraid they're going to accidentally sue themselves?
Click to expand...
If somebody said the words Quality Control... that would be more than most companies are doing nowadays.
Is this first party tho? Maybe Sony should buy Rare and kill them too.
 
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