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[DrBo42]

I agree with the idea behind the ad campaign, but I don't think the execution is very good. Now the ads at the bottom of the page of this thread are for gay cruises, gay marriage, and sex-offenders living in your neighborhood. Isn't that more insulting? :lol

 

[proposition]

Here is an article that compiles a lot of the extensive research that shows that homosexuality has a genetic link. They have studied everything from rams to fruit flies and found conclusive genetic differentiation in those animals that prefer the same sex.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002340883_gayscience19m.html

Another article specifically about rams:

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/2421

Yeah but one time I read something in a scientific paper that I had preconceptions about, so the paper must have been wrong.

 

[someguyinahat]

Were all these ads specifically to get people to stop saying "That's So Gay?" I mean, is there one to get people to stray from calling things retarded (which in my opinion is a more offensive term?)

And if not, what is that saying about the use of the term "retarded?" That it's less of a problem? If there is an ad to that effect I of course retract my question.

The best way to get people to stop saying it? Wait. People will move on to other words to describe their distaste for things. Calling attention to it will likely just keep it around longer because there's always that subset of people who believe they can't be told what to do.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I have absolutely no problem with people using gay as a word other than to describe sexual orientation. I won't correct them, get upset, or whatever.

I will, and as will any educated person, think less of them and probably never give them the respect they think they deserve. That's kind of the trade-off. You can't be stupid and expect to be taken seriously.

 

[Dragmire]

it would be easier to teach gay people not to be offended by this than it would be to teach the much larger amount of people who like to call things gay as an insult to stop. path of least resistance...

I so hope this is a joke. My entire life consisted of people trying to make me act differently, and treating me as less of a human. I don't need straight people telling me not to be offended by their stupid shit. Just stop saying ignorant things.

 

[Firestorm]

Okay, let me rephrase. At what point do we discourage the use of a word?

At the point where an entire group of people are put down just because of their ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, or other features which they can't help.

 

[DrBo42]

I have absolutely no problem with people using gay as a word other than to describe sexual orientation. I won't correct them, get upset, or whatever.

I will, and as will any educated person, think less of them and probably never give them the respect they think they deserve. That's kind of the trade-off. You can't be stupid and expect to be taken seriously.

This sentence will ring out like a gunshot across the e-fields of GAF, but fall on deaf ears.

 

[StuBurns]

If you're saying it's offensive now then you're acknowledging it will always has homophobic connotations even if indirectly/unknowingly/ignorantly, my message was a response to you denying that.

But I am pretty confused about people here attempting to censor the word in general? Is there one poster who's directly stated that? Also I don't think our language has ever been further enriched by creating new derogatory words or adding derogatory elements to existing ones.

Our language is enriched by adopting meanings to words and altering them. Bad words are as required as good ones. Has the word fuck changed the world? Of course it has. Is it seen as a negative word? Yes. Is it's derivation something positive? Yes.

Of course I know it's a not a nice thing to say, it's not something I say, however I think the vast majority of people don't give a fuck about anyone's sexuality. I'm sorry if you have such a negative general opinion of people.

At the point where an entire group of people are put down just because of their ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, or other features which they can't help.

How many people is a 'group'?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Who uses the N-word other than to be explicitly racist? :lol

AD: "When you say 'nigger', do you realize what you say? KNOCK IT OFF!" lolz for reals?

Perhaps if you went back to the 40s/50s when the civil rights movement was emerging, you'd understand. There was a lot of casual use of the word "nigger" especially by children, just like the word "gay" today.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I have absolutely no problem with people using gay as a word other than to describe sexual orientation. I won't correct them, get upset, or whatever.

I will, and as will any educated person, think less of them and probably never give them the respect they think they deserve. That's kind of the trade-off. You can't be stupid and expect to be taken seriously.

What if it was used in the classical sense of the term, say, to describe how jolly or happy a person looks?

 

[mikeGFG]

Perhaps if you went back to the 40s/50s when the civil rights movement was emerging, you'd understand. There was a lot of casual use of the word "nigger" especially by children, just like the word "gay" today.

...

 

[Arnie]

What if you are a gay gamer with no friends. This advert will probably make you want to jump off a cliff.

 

[Xenon]

Who uses the N-word other than to be explicitly racist? :lol

AD: "When you say '*****', do you realize what you say? KNOCK IT OFF!" lolz for reals?

:lol

I think a more apt analogy would be the phrase, "The pot calling the kettle black"

I never even thought about it until a black lady stopped in her tracks and gave me the "oh no you didn't!" look.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Our language is enriched by adopting meanings to words and altering them. Bad words are as required as good ones. Has the word fuck changed the world? Of course it has. Is it seen as a negative word? Yes. Is it's derivation something positive? Yes.

Of course I know it's a not a nice thing to say, it's not something I say, however I think the vast majority of people don't give a fuck about anyone's sexuality. I'm sorry if you have such a negative general opinion of people.

Because fuck on it's own persecutes a specific group on the basis of them being a specific group and thus disgusting/superior doesn't it? Shit, I can't be arsed to argue with somebody who still doesn't understand the original point they had issues with.

 

[FoneBone]

Here's news for you: a good chunk of such minority collectives hate their peers who use the legacy of discrimination to use it as leverage to do things like these. Of course they do hate people using expression like that one, but they hate even more for their peers to use the suffering of the collective as a tool to further personal agendas.

What kind of "personal agenda" are you talking about, pray tell?

Gay-haters will continue to be so even if they aren't allowed to say "that's gay" without people frowning at them.

Well, racism still exists, so why can't anyone toss the word "nigger" around freely?

But hey, there's money to be made, careers to advance and greasy poles to climb belonging to minotrity lobbies.

What the fuck are you smoking? You're yet another deluded right-wing whiner who thinks that the response to supposed "political correctness" is that no one has the right to get offended by anything.

 

[proposition]

:lol

I think a more apt analogy would be the phrase, "The pot calling the kettle black"

I never even thought about it until a black lady stopped in her tracks and gave me the "oh no you didn't!" look.

Ok, now this I don't get. That phrase is nothing to do with skin colour.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Yeah but one time I read something in a scientific paper that I had preconceptions about, so the paper must have been wrong.

:lol :lol :lol

By all means read those 'scientific studies'. Conclusive without a doubt.

:lol :lol

 

[G-Fex]

that's...not really the case anymore on pc online or xbox live it's mostly anti-semetic/racism comments so....way to be really late to the party stupid ad. :\

I don't know about anyone else but I really hate anti-semetic comments and I'm not even Jewish.

 

[fernoca]

Well, kinda back here..

Who uses the N-word other than to be explicitly racist? :lol

AD: "When you say 'nigger', do you realize what you say? KNOCK IT OFF!" lolz for reals?

I'll quote someone from this same thread:

Maybe I'm different but if the comment or insult isn't directed at me, why should I feel insulted? I'm black and I hear my friends call each other the N word all the time but they know not to call em that word because I don't like it.

There are many black men and women that use that word, but between friends and stuff..simply because they know each other and they know they are not saying it with a racist undertone or hate or something...

The same way, many gay men say to other gay men "lo, you're gayer than Cher at a Pride Parade"...

Which is why ads like this just won't ever work..
They could stop every straight, bi, etc..person from saying "that's gay"..but if gay men, between themselves still talk to each other like "lol you're so gay"..then what's the point?

Not to mention, the many online sites with many gay men describing themselves as "less gay" or "like gay men that are not that gay"..or "if you're too gay don't message me"..the same way many gay men don't like "gay man that act straight" even when they are not "acting"..

 

[Skittleguy]

Wow, people on the Gaming side are much harsher than those on the OT.

 

[Masked Man]

Oh please, homosexuality was mainstream long before the 90s. And that's half the problem. "That's so gay" is a phrase that would eventually disappear if the LGBT communities shut up for once and tried not to think of homosexuality as a culture anymore and let it just become a fact of life.

Well, the LGTBQ community does not propagate homosexuality strictly as a culture (as opposed to "a fact of life"), so I'm not sure upon what you're basing that statement. Moreover, there is such a thing as "gay culture," but it isn't quite applicable to this context.

Even if homosexuality became "mainstream" prior to the '90s, the usage of "gay" in place of "dumb" or "stupid" developed afterward and thus while homosexuality was (is) mainstream. In essence, rather, you're still agreeing that there is a direct relation between the two usages.

People didn't simply page through a dictionary, stop on a random word, and decide that they would start using it in place of "dumb." "Gay" was clearly misappropriated intentionally out of antipathy toward the gay community. Failure to realize that is blatantly ignorant, and it perpetuates latent homophobia.

 

[Aaron Strife]

...

Nothing? No?

Pick up a history book sometime. White people back then were the same as straight people today: ignorant and couldn't comprehend why a black person would be offended by use of the word "nigger"

 

[StuBurns]

Because fuck on it's own persecutes a specific group on the basis of them being a specific group and thus disgusting/superior doesn't it? Shit, I can't be arsed to argue with somebody who still doesn't understand the original point they had issues with.

You've clearly completely missed the point of my whole argument if that's your response.

My point was meanings CHANGE thru use. In a thousand years from now, do you really believe using the term gay will mean homosexual at all? Maybe it will, but the fact is, it could change, as it has in the last forty years.

Locking down meanings when people find them sensitive is completely illogical to me.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

The person has ignored the personal experience of gay people about something that only gay people could possibly know from experience, choosing instead to follow their own vague intuition or belief about how things actually are about being gay.

They then proceeded to use the argument 'scientists are sometimes wrong, so I choose not to believe the evidence', rather than actually look at the papers indicating that homosexuality is not a life choice and suggest reasons why they might be flawed studies. Or listen to the personal accounts of the only people who could possibly know whether homosexuality is a life choice. But by analogy, 'scientists are sometimes wrong, so I chose not to believe them when they say the Earth is round'.

There are no points to consider here, only fallacy and ignorance.

:lol no need to get upset and get your panties all tied up. If you want to get ignorant and take what I was saying to technical then that's your problem not mine. Obviously my point flew over your head and there is no point in talking to you. Maybe you should take up some comphrension courses.

I'm done with this topic.

 

[Malvolio]

It wasn't until I saw the look on my gay friends face when I called something in a video game "gay" that I finally realized how stupid I sounded. He didn't even have to say a word. I apologized and have not used the word in a negative fashion since that day. Even I cringe now when I hear it.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I'm done with this topic.

No, I think this topic is done with you.

 

[blindrocket]

:lol

 

[mik]

I think a more apt analogy would be the phrase, "The pot calling the kettle black"

I never even thought about it until a black lady stopped in her tracks and gave me the "oh no you didn't!" look.

LOL

 

[mikeGFG]

Nothing? No?

Pick up a history book sometime. White people back then were the same as straight people today: ignorant and couldn't comprehend why a black person would be offended by use of the word "nigger"

No, they used the word for the purpose of under minding blacks; as people, as a culture, as social group. Regardless of how often the word is used today, it still holds the same meaning as it did during american civil rights, whereas the word gay has a few distinct meanings.

 

[StuBurns]

It wasn't until I saw the look on my gay friends face when I called something in a video game "gay" that I finally realized how stupid I sounded. He didn't even have to say a word. I apologized and have not used the word in a negative fashion since that day. Even I cringe now when I hear it.

I actually had the same experience a few years ago, I was out in town with some mates and I called someone a bender, which is a very common English term, but I think it comes from something to do with homosexuality (I'm not sure, but that's not the point), and one of my mates is a lesbian. She didn't look at me funny or anything, but I just remember being really stunned at how I'd used the word for years and never thought about it's meaning to other people and if they would be sensitive to it. I'm pretty sure I haven't used any such terms since in negative ways, it was quite a waking experience.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

No, I think this topic is done with you.

No, I done with it.

 

[Suairyu]

Well, the LGTBQ community does not propagate homosexuality strictly as a culture (as opposed to "a fact of life"), so I'm not sure upon what you're basing that statement.

They try not to. They fail. Yes, that's a blanket statement given the amount of LGBT communities and organisations in existence, so bear in mind it applies to only my experience, but I constantly see them promoting the ideology of 'Gay Pride'. What the hell is there to be proud about?

Example: GayGamer's infamous Halo 3 video. He creates LIVE tag called "gaygamer". People then insult him stupid online. It is then used as the industry's prime example of homosexual discrimination. The truth of the matter: if your life is so completely without meaning that you have to use something as unimportant* as your sexual orientation to define how you present yourself to others, you shouldn't be socialising in the first place.

*Yeah, I know, it isn't unimportant right now. But it should be. Why do people always look shocked when they find out I really dig other dudes? Am I "not gay enough"? My sexual orientation is just a base fact of my existence, it doesn't change how I act around others in any concious way. For sexual orientation to broadly reach this golden target of 'unimportance', the gay community needs to by large stop acting like having a sexual orientation different from the norm is something to be proud of. My experience of LGBT organisations has been entirely counter productive to this aim.

Trying to discourage word use so specifically (rather than having a broad 'anti-discrimination' TOS) is counter productive to this aim.

People didn't simply page through a dictionary, stop on a random word, and decide that they would start using it in place of "dumb." "Gay" was clearly misappropriated intentionally out of antipathy toward the gay community. Failure to realize that is blatantly ignorant, and it perpetuates latent homophobia.

That's probably why the change started, yes, I agree. But that doesn't change its current widespread meaning. People will grow up just accepting 'gay' can mean both 'homosexual' and 'rubbish/stupid/dumb' in different, unrelated contexts. They missed the changeover and thus missed the malicious intent. A lot of the words we use today are misused if we look back at their historical origin, that doesn't make trying to change their usage back into the 'correct' form any less of a folly.

edit - to be clear, I am not saying "accept discrimination". I am saying an LGBT organisation's role should be kept strictly to the legal. Once the law is changed to be orientation neutral, discrimination should be dealt with case-by-case only. Making blanket discouragements only leads to worse problems. Poster campaigns like this only highlight that being homosexual is 'not normal', or 'other'. Statistically it is, sure, but we shouldn't act like that.

 

[Firestorm]

I actually had the same experience a few years ago, I was out in town with some mates and I called someone a bender, which is a very common English term, but I think it comes from something to do with homosexuality (I'm not sure, but that's not the point), and one of my mates is a lesbian. She didn't look at me funny or anything, but I just remember being really stunned at how I'd used the word for years and never thought about it's meaning to other people and if they would be sensitive to it. I'm pretty sure I haven't used any such terms since in negative ways, it was quite a waking experience.

Yet you disagree with a campaign that tries to open people's eyes the way yours were?

Maybe the TV ads are better at this point. Check them out in t his topic:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371268

 

[usernamechange]

No, I done with it.

i done with it

i cant understand how anyone would consider you or your arguments moronic with fantastically worded statements such as this one

 

[Dragmire]

Oh please, homosexuality was mainstream long before the 90s. And that's half the problem. "That's so gay" is a phrase that would eventually disappear if the LGBT communities shut up for once and tried not to think of homosexuality as a culture anymore and let it just become a fact of life.

Oh wow. Just... fucking wow. It's gay peoples' fault that straight people say ignorant things? That being gay isn't commonly accepted? That's the most fucked up, ignorant thing I've ever heard. That's what my family said to me all my life, that it's my fault for acting the way I do and having the preferences that I do. And my family is ignorant and trashy.

Gay means stupid because it stemmed from ignorance, not because people altered the meaning one day. And most straight people have no idea how disrespectful and non-inclusive they are to gay people. Especially people like me, who they don't know are gay until I tell them. Do you realize how often my orientation is ridiculed to my face, when not outright homobophia, because people are blindly ignorant? People don't know what it's like outside of their tiny bubble and they're hateful and blind because of it. I wish this kind of trash would stop.

 

[EarsOfASnake]

:lol

I think a more apt analogy would be the phrase, "The pot calling the kettle black"

I never even thought about it until a black lady stopped in her tracks and gave me the "oh no you didn't!" look.

I am pretty sure that phrase holds no racist connotations at all though. Isn't it merely an analogy to the condition that a pot and kettle would be commonly found?

 

[Saint10118]

I'm so glad I was born a Gamer rather than a Gaybo

haha this is pathetic

and yeah, what's so bad about being called a 'guy who has more video games than friends'? You've still got friends, and now you've got a heap of games to enjoy with them!

man this fails on so many levels it's quite fucken gay.

Really? I think that for those that would defend the casual pejorative use of the word gay have only to look at posts like this and realize that this is ignorant, hurtful, and the ultimate focus of these ads (regardless of the efficacy).

 

[Numbers]

Well, kinda back here..

I'll quote someone from this same thread:

There are many black men and women that use that word, but between friends and stuff..simply because they know each other and they know they are not saying it with a racist undertone or hate or something...

The same way, many gay men say to other gay men "lo, you're gayer than Cher at a Pride Parade"...

Which is why ads like this just won't ever work..
They could stop every straight, bi, etc..person from saying "that's gay"..but if gay men, between themselves still talk to each other like "lol you're so gay"..then what's the point?

Not to mention, the many online sites with many gay men describing themselves as "less gay" or "like gay men that are not that gay"..or "if you're too gay don't message me"..the same way many gay men don't like "gay man that act straight" even when they are not "acting"..

That's entirely different, dumb shit kids use "gay" to describe things instead of "stupid" which enforces "gay" as being a negative thing, what you described was people using "gay" instead of flamboyant or queeny or whatever.

 

[Masked Man]

No, I done with it.

Yep, sounds about right.

 

[Aaron Strife]

No, I done with it.

I thought you were done with this topic.

No, they used the word for the purpose of under minding blacks; as people, as a culture, as social group. Regardless of how often the word is used today, it still holds the same meaning as it did during american civil rights, whereas the word gay has a few distinct meanings.

I'm pretty sure the usage of the word "gay" in a negative sense coincides directly with homosexuality becoming more open. I remember when I was a kid, whenever kids called each other gay the comeback was typically "I'm gay the good way, you're gay the other way" Interpret that how you will.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

i done with it

i cant understand how anyone would consider you or your arguments moronic with fantastically worded statements such as this one

Oh I'm sorry I forget to properly spell "I'm" Mr Spelling Police.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

I thought you were done with this topic.

topic =/= thread

Just becauise I'm done with the topic doesn't mean I'm done with the thread. I'm not responding to the topic at hand just the silly little replies.

 

[seat]

I think a more apt analogy would be the phrase, "The pot calling the kettle black"

I never even thought about it until a black lady stopped in her tracks and gave me the "oh no you didn't!" look.

Ok, now this I don't get. That phrase is nothing to do with skin colour.

Actually, the analogy is astonishingly apt. "The pot..." phrase can totally be taken in the wrong context by someone who doesn't think about the modern and accepted usage of language. "Black" in this instance is pejorative. Society accepts this while also realizing that the term is the most commonly accepted phrase for an entire race of people. What is there not to understand? Do you really think "that's so gay" is the equivalent of "nigger"? It ain't.

 

[Saint10118]

They try not to. They fail. Yes, that's a blanket statement given the amount of LGBT communities and organisations in existence, so bear in mind it applies to only my experience, but I constantly see them promoting the ideology of 'Gay Pride'. What the hell is there to be proud about?.

Good God you have jumped the shark. Gay pride is about embracing who you are without feeling ashamed. Then again I'm sure to you this is just LGBT organizations shoving their "lifestyle" down your throat. smh.

 

[Firestorm]

Trying to discourage word use so specifically (rather than having a broad 'anti-discrimination' TOS) is counter productive to this aim.

edit - to be clear, I am not saying "accept discrimination". I am saying an LGBT organisation's role should be kept strictly to the legal. Once the law is changed to be orientation neutral, discrimination should be dealt with case-by-case only. Making blanket discouragements only leads to worse problems. Poster campaigns like this only highlight that being homosexual is 'not normal', or 'other'. Statistically it is, sure, but we shouldn't act like that.

Since you still don't get it: this ad campaign is to make people aware that a word they think is normal is actually hurtful to a number of people (10% of the population). People know the word "nigger" is offensive". They know that "chink" is offensive. However the words "gay" and "retarded" are used offhand by a large number of people to describe negative events without really thinking about how they affect others.

Also, an LGBT organization should be doing something to make the people they represent feel like the equals they are. Not strictly "legal".

 

[StuBurns]

Yet you disagree with a campaign that tries to open people's eyes the way yours were?

Maybe the TV ads are better at this point. Check them out in t his topic:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371268

When did I say I disagree with it?

I fully support the attempt to reduce the use of an offensive term. I said I think it won't work, it's futile, and ultimately the words meaning is open to interpretation.

If this ad stops one young gay boy being abused that's awesome to me. But I'm an adult, and I don't want people telling me what is acceptable and what isn't. This ad isn't aimed at me though. For the target audience, I think this is wonderful, if not a little poorly put together.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

Actually, the analogy is astonishingly apt. "The pot..." phrase can totally be taken in the wrong context by someone who doesn't think about the modern and accepted usage of language. "Black" in this instance is pejorative. Society accepts this while also realizing that the term is the most commonly accepted phrase for an entire race of people. What is there not to understand? Do you really think "that's so gay" is the equivalent of "nigger"? It ain't.

Becareful now or the grammar police will come and tell you that there is no such word as "ain't"

 

[Firestorm]

When did I say I disagree with it?

I fully support the attempt to reduce the use of an offensive term. I said I think it won't work, it's futile, and ultimately the words meaning is open to interpretation.

If this ad stops one young gay boy being abused that's awesome to me. But I'm an adult, and I don't want people telling me what is acceptable and what isn't. This ad isn't aimed at me though. For the target audience, I think this is wonderful, if not a little poorly put together.

Then there really shouldn't be much of a problem. Like you said, this is not aimed at us. It's aimed at a younger generation.

 

[Saint10118]

Do you really think "that's so gay" is the equivalent of "nigger"? It ain't.

The phrase? No.

Calling someone in hate gay or faggot has most certainly the equivalent purpose as calling someone a nigger.

 

[Suairyu]

Good God you have jumped the shark. Gay pride is about embracing who you are without feeling ashamed. Then again I'm sure to you this is just LGBT organizations shoving their "lifestyle" down your throat. smh.

My argument is that being gay isn't a lifestyle. It's a sexual orientation. 'Gay pride' is something that makes me feel uncomfortable because it's (passively) telling me that I should be acting a certain way just because I find my own gender sexually attractive. There is no difference between overt 'gay pride' and overt use of 'thats gay', they're both low-level passive examples of sexual orientation discrimanation. They're each others opposites on the spectrum - social annoyances I'd love to do away with but can't.

And if someone could explain what "smh" is I'd appreciate it. I've seen it a lot lately and can't find it's origin.

edit -

Oh wow. Just... fucking wow. It's gay peoples' fault that straight people say ignorant things? That being gay isn't commonly accepted? That's the most fucked up, ignorant thing I've ever heard. That's what my family said to me all my life, that it's my fault for acting the way I do and having the preferences that I do. And my family is ignorant and trashy.

Gay means stupid because it stemmed from ignorance, not because people altered the meaning one day. And most straight people have no idea how disrespectful and non-inclusive they are to gay people. Especially people like me, who they don't know are gay until I tell them. Do you realize how often my orientation is ridiculed to my face, when not outright homobophia, because people are blindly ignorant? People don't know what it's like outside of their tiny bubble and they're hateful and blind because of it. I wish this kind of trash would stop.

Do you realise how often I'm made to feel 'other' because I don't act gay enough to be a gay person, whilst not outright heterophobia, because people are blindly ignorant?