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[Ettie]

Open Source, damn good point. Even if everyone "knows what they mean" it still lends gravity to the negative connotation associated with the word.



Also, I'm gonna pour one out for the juniors in this thread right now, because I have class in a few, and will likely miss the services.

 

[Sonos]

thats the best cartoon those guys have had in a looong time.

 

[mavs]

But what if I said to someone who is in a chirpy and happy mood "The way you are today is so gay". Should that person find it offensive?

If they think being gay is bad, yeah. If they think being gay is being happy, probably not. If they think being gay is being homosexual, they should give you a puzzled look and change the subject.

 

[Dark Octave]

The word evolved in the past and it's simply evolving yet again.

As for the "F" and "N" word, I think I'd rather keep the new meanings of them in going around, rather than the old. They are evolving for the better.

 

[LiK]

ad makes no sense. change it to music guy or movie guy. they all have more music and movies than friends.

 

[Roto13]

No it's not. If you're using it to mean bad, and have no homophobic tendencies, it is no different than when the term started being used to mean homosexual. If being happy means being homosexual does that mean when someone is calling themselves gay that they are saying all heterosexual people aren't happy? No, of course not.

You seem to think that the definition of gay meaning "stupid" is independent from the one meaning "homosexual." Do you really think people would be saying "that's so gay" to mean "that's so stupid" if gay wasn't already associated with homosexuality?

 

[J-Rod]

The issue of choice vs. nonchoice is a different issue than innate vs. environment.

Also, why did God make male dogs that fuck other male dogs in the butt? Or are those dogs just living in sin?

I'm pretty sure if you put a female dog in heat in front of that male dog, it would go right to humping her, even with a little more excitement.

All I know is when I was in the target age group for ads like these, it made want to do the opposite, because I saw it as a pathetic attempt of a bunch of old condescending prudes trying to connect with me, because I naturally wanted to resist authority, and because I was a little shit. If it does by some slim chance cause one person to change their ways, it still caused countless more to make it a point not to, therfore doing nothing positive. I wonder how many utterances of 'that's gay' was made for these ads alone.

 

[Malfunky]

LOL I'm an idiot for my belief? Only idiot here is you moron.

Just to make sure everyone knows, I have nothing against gay people, I have friends who are gay but they know what my stance is on the subject.

You can't sweep away facts by calling your denial of them a belief.

 

[Shockgamer]

It's hopeless to try and police what people say online; this thread alone has plenty of proof that when told not to do something, people will do it anyway if not given a strong enough threat of punishment. For many people, online is where they go to act in a manner that they know they wouldn't get away with in real life. I'm sure that if they really wanted, Microsoft could stamp out most of the trouble, but it'd cost to much to babysit all of those games and they don't want to potentially lose paying customers.

So, the only real solution is not to control what the first person says, it is to give the second person the power to control what they hear. Give people the option to filter their messages now, and later, eventually when the voice recognition technology advances far enough, allow people to edit out the spoken word.

 

[Rocket Punch]

That ad is so gay gamer that has more games than friends!

Honestly though, 9 out of 10 gay people don't really give a fuck.

I seriouly doubt your polling results. Please tell me your souces.

Here's the thread from the OT which is less than a week old, where it was discussed at length how the gayming age community feels about the use of 'gay' as a pejorative and you can read from fellow gaffer Mumei about the effects those phrases have on a growing child.

 

[Dark Octave]

ad makes no sense. change it to music guy or movie guy. they all have more music and movies than friends.

But you are more likley to be called a fag in an online game than at the movies or in a club.

Gamers are little bitches like that.

 

[poppabk]

The difference is when people say "that's so gay", they ARE equating homosexuality to stupidity or whatever. That's where the phrase comes from, and it's ignorant and offensive.

I would be equating it to the production values of crappy 60s/70s TV shows.

 

[StuBurns]

You seem to think that the definition of gay meaning "stupid" is independent from the one meaning "homosexual." Do you really think people would be saying "that's so gay" to mean "that's so stupid" if gay wasn't already associated with homosexuality?

I have no idea, who am I to say what everyone who has ever used that phrase is thinking? What I do know is someone in this very thread said they use it and aren't homophobic.

My point is that the meaning of words is not fixed. It can be changed, and even gay itself has already changed meanings. If the word is used to mean stupid more than it is used for homosexual, it's an equally valid meaning. If we can't change the meaning, it should mean happy as it originally did and homosexuals should create a new word.

As far as I'm concerned, a fag is a cigarette, a faggot is ball of horrid meat in gravy, queer is strange. If someone wants to use those words to mean gay, that's their business, but I will use them to mean what I consider them to mean.

 

[LiK]

But you are more likley to be called a fag in an online game than at the movies or in a club.

Gamers are little bitches like that.

ohh i see. very true. i think the N word is up there.

 

[yankeeforever2]

But I have over 100 games, how am I suppose to have that many friends, wait do collectors editions with many games count as one or multiple?

 

[EzLink]

That's so "holy shit what a fucking dumb ad campaign"

 

[Phoenix Fang]

You can't sweep away facts by calling your denial of them a belief.

There are no scientifically proven facts that people are born gay.

 

[Malfunky]

There are no scientifically proven facts that people are born gay.

It's a fact that people don't choose it.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

No it's not. If you're using it to mean bad, and have no homophobic tendencies, it is no different than when the term started being used to mean homosexual. If being happy means being homosexual does that mean when someone is calling themselves gay that they are saying all heterosexual people aren't happy? No, of course not.

You're being an idiot, Gay has two meanings, the manner in which it's used in a negative context clearly derives from one of those meanings. Clearly it's jovial!

Fucking hell I actually say it in front of my heterosexual things quite a bit but it's not hard to see why someone would find it offensive. It's like calling a black person who does something to you a nigger then explaining you meant it in a Chris Rock "There are black folks and then there are niggers" shit you might feel you're justified by saying it, but is it really that hard to figure out why others might not be?

 

[Dark Octave]

ohh i see. very true. i think the N word is up there.

:lol Oh boy do I have some stories to tell you about that word and online games.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

It's a fact that people don't choose it.

I would like to see and read about said facts, because I find that really hard to believe.

 

[Haunted]

Honestly though, 9 out of 10 gay people don't really give a fuck.

I don't know about that, most of those I know are pretty hurt by the casual use of the word. Of course not showing it openly, but it stings.


This differs from person to person, obviously, but people should be educated not to insult/hurt even those 10% in your example.

 

[StuBurns]

You're being an idiot, Gay has two meanings, the manner in which it's used in a negative context clearly derives from one of those meanings. Clearly it's jovial!

Fucking hell I actually say it in front of my heterosexual things quite a bit but it's not hard to see why someone would find it offensive. It's like calling a black person who does something to you a nigger then explaining you meant it in a Chris Rock "There are black folks and then there are niggers" shit you might feel you're justified by saying it, but is it really that hard to figure out why others might not be?

I never claimed it wasn't offensive, nor did I say I agree with people using it. I don't agree with people being 'banned' from saying it because it's moronic to think a words use should be controlled. It's against what created the most enriched and expressive language on this planet. English might be our greatest achievement. And it's not through big brother dictating.

 

[me Jojo]

I would like to see and read about said facts, because I find that really hard to believe.

How about the fact that a lot of homosexuals struggle for years, being afraid coming out to their parents? If it's a choice, they wouldn't have to struggle, they'd just choose to be straight.

 

[Suairyu]

Including this campaign, I am yet to see any worthwhile contributions by LGBT organisations, websites and movements to the gaming culture and community. It's all a bunch of counter-productive bullshit.

And I speak as a man who adores the man-cock.

 

[Malfunky]

I would like to see and read about said facts, because I find that really hard to believe.

You think people like Matthew Shepard, while being humiliated and tortured and left to rot and die tied to a fence thought to himself, "If only I made the right choice."

I have a friend from Louisiana. He was a hardcore jock, all the ladies loved him, he was well-off, had a great car, great job, great life all together, and devoutly religious. One day, he comes out completely unexpectedly. I had no idea. I was surprised. But I didn't really care. But his parents almost disowned him. They took away his dignity, they removed his door so he wouldn't look at gay porn(what about straight porn? As if being gay would give anyone a propensity to look at porn). People just did not accept him. He had a terrible time coming out. You think he chose to feel the way he did in the goddamn Bible Belt?

Do you think you can just get up and choose to have a relationship with another man and feel as satisfied as with a woman?

What in the world would lead you to believe this is a choice?

 

[bonesmccoy]

Look, I just used bastard too.

Monster!

----------

I think any attempt to change the casual language employed by many a self-made-mouthbreather is a fruitless endeavour. We still have idiots running around calling people 'stupid Jews' just 60 years after the Jewish people were almost wiped out.

quick edit: Matthew Shepard's murder - according to the facts - wasn't an anti-gay murder. The mythology that's built up around it, in my opinion, is a disservice to the thousands of GL people who've been killed because of their orientation. But then this is coming from someone who feels that it's wrong to characterize Abp. Oscar Romero's murder as an example of clear anti-Catholicism, so take my $0.02 fwiw.

 

[seat]

You're being an idiot, Gay has two meanings, the manner in which it's used in a negative context clearly derives from one of those meanings. Clearly it's jovial!

Seriously, this shit has to stop. I was ganged up by a bunch of gaf members in the OT thread and labeled a "troll" for having similar, well thought-out ideas. stuburns is clearly not an idiot and has explained himself quite well. If you want have an actual discussion on this topic, don't label him as such. If you truly do believe he's an idiot, you simply refuse to open your mind to the idea that there are varying shades to this debate.

 

[Darklord]

Honestly though, 9 out of 10 gay people don't really give a fuck.

I'd be careful. I was given a months ban for saying something similar to that.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

I don't know about that, most of those I know are pretty hurt by the casual use of the word. Of course not showing it openly, but it stings.


This differs from person to person, obviously, but people should be educated not to insult/hurt even those 10% in your example.

Maybe I'm different but if the comment or insult isn't directed at me, why should I feel insulted? I'm black and I hear my friends call each other the N word all the time but they know not to call em that word because I don't like it.

If I want to say "That's so gay", why should I have to feel that I can't say it because I'm going to offend someone who the comment isn't directed at.

 

[Phreak47]

I don't care what anyone say, being gay is a choice not something you are born with. You don't get to choose to be White, Black, Chinese, Japanese, African or Mexican. God didn't put 2 men on earth and said "Hey it's ok if you sleep with each other".

You know, it's funny that every survey, study, etc continues to conclude that the "recruitment / choice" idea is a myth, and yet it keeps getting repeated. Gay traits have been repeatedly observed in small children who know nothing of sexuality. How do you "choose to be gay" when you are 5 years old?

 

[jay]

It's a fact that people don't choose it.

Instead of trying to convince people it's not a choice ask them what the problem is with it even if it is a choice. I am confident their answers will be hilarious and easily dismissible.

 

[udivision]

Including this campaign, I am yet to see any worthwhile contributions by LGBT organisations, websites and movements to the gaming culture and community. It's all a bunch of counter-productive bullshit.

And I speak as a man who adores the man-cock.

I guess if we get back to the heart of the actual debate, can we all pretty much agree that this ad fails? If not just for the reasons raised in the Penny Arcade comic, also those raised by gaffers in the early stages of the thread. Essentially, it's saying "don't be mean" (the word is even used in the ad) and that doesn't seem all too effective.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

You think people like Matthew Shepard, while being humiliated and tortured and left to rot and die tied to a fence thought to himself, "If only I made the right choice."

I have a friend from Louisiana. He was a hardcore jock, all the ladies loved him, he was well-off, had a great car, great job, great life all together, and devoutly religious. One day, he comes out completely unexpectedly. I had no idea. I was surprised. But I didn't really care. But his parents almost disowned him. They took away his dignity, they removed his door so he wouldn't look at gay porn(what about straight porn? As if being gay would give anyone a propensity to look at porn). People just did not accept him. He had a terrible time coming out. You think he chose to feel the way he did in the goddamn Bible Belt?

Do you think you can just get up and choose to have a relationship with another man and feel as satisfied as with a woman?

What in the world would lead you to believe this is a choice?

And what in the world would lead you to believe its not? You are still not showing me facts that it's not a choice.

You know, it's funny that every survey, study, etc continues to conclude that the "recruitment / choice" idea is a myth, and yet it keeps getting repeated. Gay traits have been repeatedly observed in small children who know nothing of sexuality. How do you "choose to be gay" when you are 5 years old?

But aren't these the same studies who one week are telling us one thing and the following week telling us completely the opposite?

Instead of trying to convince people it's not a choice ask them what the problem is with it even if it is a choice. I am confident their answers will be hilarious and easily dismissible.

My answer would be, I don't give a shit what people do with their lives. They can be gay, straight, bi or have sex with animals, it doesn't mean shit to me. But does that mean I can't have questions?

 

[Masked Man]

Even someone on this page said he used the term casually and has nothing against gay people. So he just uses it to mean bad.

But that's thoroughly disingenuous on your part to simply ignore the fact that the word was misappropriated to mean "bad" or "stupid" only after the word was adopted by the homosexual community. Coincidence? I think not. Regardless of how the aforementioned poster claims to feel regarding homosexuality, the use of the word in a negative sense reinforces latent ideas about homosexuality being bad, undesirable, and inferior.

 

[Dark Octave]

I don't know about that, most of those I know are pretty hurt by the casual use of the word. Of course not showing it openly, but it stings.


This differs from person to person, obviously, but people should be educated not to insult/hurt even those 10% in your example.

I'd like to share an example of how I used the word once.

There's this guy who owns some hotels (can't remember the name) here in my city here in California. He was for prop 8 (prop 8 wasa bill against gay marriages). He used his money to help push prop 8 and the gay community banned his hotel. So as I'm watching the news they report that now his business is hurting so he is now sucking up to the gay community and trying to put money into their programs. Without thinking, I said out loud, "what a fucking faggot!".

What I said was clearly out of support of the gay community and had nothing to do with gay or straight and everything to do with this man's character and motivations. The word has changed and I believe it's for the better.

 

[proposition]

LOL I'm an idiot for my belief? Only idiot here is you moron.

Just to make sure everyone knows, I have nothing against gay people, I have friends who are gay but they know what my stance is on the subject.

The only way you could possibly know that it's a choice is if you're gay.

 

[Masked Man]

I'm so glad I was born a Gamer rather than a Gaybo

Wow. Stay classy.

Serious question for a gay man:

Would you be offended if you saw a guy in a game store trying a demo of of a bad game and saying "that's gay" during one of the lamer moments?

I know I don't spam the phrase, but I'm pretty sure I say it.

So, yeah. If I'm possibly making someone around me uncomfortable by saying that, I will actively try to remove it from my vocabulary.

I find it offensive, but it really just makes the user seem ignorant. If I hear someone use "that's so gay" in place of "dumb" or "lame," then I will point it out to them--and, frankly, it's for their own good. Regardless of your intentions and/or your feelings toward homosexuality, if you don't want to sound like a moron or a 14-year-old teenage boy, don't say it.

 

[StuBurns]

Seriously, this shit has to stop. I was ganged up by a bunch of gaf members in the OT thread and labeled a "troll" for having similar, well thought-out ideas. stuburns is clearly not an idiot and has explained himself quite well. If you want have an actual discussion on this topic, don't label him as such. If you truly do believe he's an idiot, you simply refuse to open your mind to the idea that there are varying shades to this debate.

Thank you. In peoples defense, I'm not gay, so I can't know what it's like to be in that minority, and I know that at school, until late high school at least, there was a strong air of homophobia among the students. Although, beyond the point people actually starting dating and having sex it seems to be pretty much non-existence in any groups of people I've met.

I didn't mean to imply I'm in favor of the term generally. And if it's homophonically motivated, of course, it's a disgraceful comment to make, however I really don't think most adults give a fuck about a persons sexuality. If I heard a person my age say something is gay, and mean it to be bad, I wouldn't react negatively to the comment because I'd find it hard to believe it has negative homosexual connotations.

A 11 year old screaming down XBL is one example, I don't believe that is the majority.

 

[Malfunky]

And what in the world would lead you to believe its not? You are still not showing me facts that it's not a choice.

What? That entire post is an obvious example of what has lead me to accept my conclusion. Let me sum the two points up. I don't believe it's a choice because, I don't think people would choose to adversity, or risk their lives, over such a choice. And I don't believe you or I can choose to be attracted to and select a same-sex mate and have the same effect as a "traditional" relationship.

So what makes you believe it is a choice?

 

[woodypop]

If I want to say "That's so gay", why should I have to feel that I can't say it because I'm going to offend someone who the comment isn't directed at.

Probably for the same reason you shouldn't (key word "shouldn't", not "can't") jokingly call your best friend a "f*cking c*nt" for winning at the bingo parlor. Those old folks in earshot probably aren't going to like it much.

Imagine that.

And what in the world would lead you to believe its not? You are still not showing me facts that it's not a choice.

Did you choose your orientation?

 

[dojokun]

The campaign is broader than the ad you posted. It also includes at least two others:

That's So "Jock Who Can Complete a Pass But Not a Sentence."

That's So "Cheerleader Who Like Can't Like Say Smart Stuff."

So no it doesn't deal with racism online because it's not specifically about gamers or the internet but rather is trying to draw parallels by using broad misconceptions and stereotypes targeted at other groups, etc.

Sorry but it's not parallel to what it claims to be parallel to. Parallel would be "That's so gamer," not "That's so gamer who has more games than friends." See the difference?

If not, lets take those other two ads. Parallel isn't what they claim is parallel. Parallel is "That's so jock" or "That's so cheerleader." Parallel is NOT those things plus another phrase adding in a stereotype.

 

[udivision]

Instead of trying to convince people it's not a choice ask them what the problem is with it even if it is a choice. I am confident their answers will be hilarious and easily dismissible.

That get's you into the whole "it's inherently evil" kind of thing. Some people say "it's just wrong" and leave it at that. There are some things in life that one person will view as disgusting and others wont. There are people who'll say there is something wrong with a 40 year old man sleeping with a 12 year old, even if it was conscenting and allowed even by the parents. No matter what, they'll just say "it's wrong." And there'll be people who see no problem with it, if no one is hurt.

That's the thing about this debate. It's not really a debate. It's people with irreconcileable views trying vainly to convince the other side. Well... that might be contradictory.

 

[mikeGFG]

You know, it's funny that every survey, study, etc continues to conclude that the "recruitment / choice" idea is a myth, and yet it keeps getting repeated. Gay traits have been repeatedly observed in small children who know nothing of sexuality. How do you "choose to be gay" when you are 5 years old?

theyre probably closer to effeminate tendencies than any definable 'gay traits'.

 

[Skittleguy]

Wow. This is a ban trap if I ever saw one.

 

[Firestorm]

I like it when people belonging to the norm say that minority groups aren't offended by words they use. I find they're the best ones to go to about these types of things because they obviously know the most about it.

 

[Masked Man]

I like it when people belonging to the norm say that minority groups aren't offended by words they use. I find they're the best ones to go to about these types of things because they obviously know the most about it.

Because straight white males really know a thing or two about what it's like to be discriminated against.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

What? That entire post is an obvious example of what has lead me to accept my conclusion. Let me sum the two points up. I don't believe it's a choice because, I don't think people would choose to adversity, or risk their lives, over such a choice. And I don't believe you or I can choose to be attracted to and select a same-sex mate and have the same effect as a "traditional" relationship.

So what makes you believe it is a choice?

So would you say serial rapist and serial killers are not killers or rapist by choice?

Probably for the same reason you shouldn't (key word "shouldn't", not "can't") jokingly call your best friend a "f*cking c*nt" for winning at the bingo parlor. Those old folks in earshot probably aren't going to like it much.

Imagine that.

That's a wrong example to use.

Did you choose your orientation?

I was born a man, why would I want to sleep with another man?

 

[poppabk]

But that's thoroughly disingenuous on your part to simply ignore the fact that the word was misappropriated to mean "bad" or "stupid" only after the word was adopted by the homosexual community. Coincidence? I think not. Regardless of how the aforementioned poster claims to feel regarding homosexuality, the use of the word in a negative sense reinforces latent ideas about homosexuality being bad, undesirable, and inferior.

But it was only in the 90's that the whole "thats so gay" kind of phrasing was really used, 30 or so years after the adoption of the word to mean homosexual. In fact it is only as being gay has become something more accepted that the pejorative sense of the word has become popular.

 

[udivision]

I like it when people belonging to the norm say that minority groups aren't offended by words they use. I find they're the best ones to go to about these types of things because they obviously know the most about it.

In the same breath, the "norms" being offended for minorities when minorities don't feel offended is kind of odd too. Not to say that this directly applies to this instance, which it probably doesn't.