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[Dragoon En Regalia]

Ugh, I'm starting to feel the burn. UV with the old controls is getting challenging quick, but some segments I'm having to relearn entirely, like when I approach a window to the outside with limited ability to snipe sergeants (E1M7). Everything else is great and a worthy experience, yet this part just feels off.

 

[TUROK]

I have no idea why people dislike Brutal Doom. Its fucking incredible.

Probably because of its popularity. Here you have plenty of amazing WAD's, and they're all overshadowed by Brutal Doom. In general gaming forums, Brutal Doom is the only one I hear about. You'd think it was the first Doom mod ever made.

 

[Dictator93]

It is incredible, it's just frustrating when it's posited as a replacement for Doom.

I think you would have a hard time finding someone who says it is a "replacement" for original doom gameplay. Most older players respect and understand that which makes default doom gameplay so good. The whole disliking brutal doom thing seems to be a conservative knee jerk reaction, pretty sure Sgt. Mark IV would never say his game should replace doom, or that his gameplay is objectively better than the original.

Brutal is great, but a different kind of great.

FOr example, there is that one famous blog post out there how "shit" brutal doom is because it has headshots, different damage values, and 2 guns have sighting mechanisms. Also that its crass gore is cheap. While that argumentation may hold water if one thinks brutal doom is trying to be the original doom... it definitely does not try to be.

In fact, Sgt. Mark IV explicitly makes mention how brutal doom is best played on levels designed around it.

 

[Lord British]

I think you would have a hard time finding someone who says it is a "replacement" for original doom gameplay. Most older players respect and understand that which makes default doom gameplay so good. The whole disliking brutal doom thing seems to be a conservative knee jerk reaction, pretty sure Sgt. Mark IV would never say his game should replace doom, or that his gameplay is objectively better than the original.

Brutal is great, but a different kind of great.

FOr example, there is that one famous blog post out there how "shit" brutal doom is because it has headshots, different damage values, and 2 guns have sighting mechanisms. Also that its crass gore is cheap. While that argumentation may hold wait if one thinks brutal doom is trying to be the original doom... it definitely does not try to be.

In fact, Sgt. Mark IV explicitly makes mention how brutal doom is best played on levels designed around it.

Yes, I agree, but I have seen it suggested on NeoGAF as a replacement more than once; I shouldn't have implied it's a frequent occurrence, though.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

What I've tried with Brutal Doom has been fun, but definitely not the real deal. It shouldn't be the new face of Doom for new players, but that's somewhat the case nowadays.

 

[G-Fex]

Brutal Doom isn't by any means bad, no of course not. It's great, it's gotten a lot of people interested in Doom again and thats good. But it's not for everyone. I like it and all I just am terrible about it.

Probably because of its popularity. Here you have plenty of amazing WAD's, and they're all overshadowed by Brutal Doom. In general gaming forums, Brutal Doom is the only one I hear about. You'd think it was the first Doom mod ever made.

That's the other thing too is that there's lots of wads that go seriously unappreciated and it's really sad, as Doom is a fanbase that has thrived for 20 years and going putting out such fanmade material that is consistent quality.

It's just a little sad that Doom isn't really well respected now a days. It's not really a draw on twitch either.

Don't get me started on the "Do you play doom 3?" I see in every channel when someone is playing doom or doom 2

 

[Roshin]

Screw the haters. Brutal Doom is the most fun I've had with Doom in many years and I've played it since the shareware release.

 

[AquaMotley]

What I've tried with Brutal Doom has been fun, but definitely not the real deal. It shouldn't be the new face of Doom for new players, but that's somewhat the case nowadays.

I think Brutal Doom is pretty much the way to go nowadays. I like how enemies (and their projectiles) are so much faster and nastier than vanilla doom. Haven't encountered that many problems playing the (top) wads out there as well.

As a sidenote though, I've been playing vanilla doom almost every year since the start. And while I do like playing it from time to time, Brutal Doom is much more attuned to faster gameplay. After all, vanilla doom was played (as I remember it) by most people exclusively with the keyboard back in the 90s.

Shooting with Ctrl, strafing with Alt, running and turning with arrow keys etc. Vanilla Doom's enemie reaction speed was largely based on people playing like that.

Brutal Doom (for me) makes a lot more sense when using the advantage -and increased reaction time- of mouselook.

 

[industrian]

Screw the haters. Brutal Doom is the most fun I've had with Doom in many years and I've played it since the shareware release.

Brutal Doom replaced my go-to mod which was Modern Warfare.

The original Doom is classic, but these mods help Doom become timeless.

 

[KittenMaster]

I am late to this thread but has NeoGAF been playing any DOOM online?

 

[Lord British]

I think Brutal Doom is pretty much the way to go nowadays.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Well, I've been doing my best to hold it back, but it looks like we're having this conversation regardless. I'll still keep it brief, though: I don't care for Brutal Doom. Like, at all.

It's not that I mind the gore, it's that I mind all the gameplay changes. If it were just treated as "oh, this makes it play differently, okay", then fine, whatever. But on GAF, it's not. It's treated as if it supplants Doom itself. Every goddamn Doom thread on this board (before the community thread) has somebody chime in and say "dude, play Brutal Doom, you'll never go back" or something to that effect. It really is as if it's the only mod in existence, the only one that matters, and that it's somehow better than the original in every way.

Not to poo-poo on the people who like it, but recognize that at the end of the day, it's just an optional gameplay modifier, and that the base game is still solid. It just gets really aggravating hearing its praises - and only its praises - every goddamn day, when I'm not, and probably never will be, a fan.

If it's any consolation, I feel pretty much the same way as you do.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Shadow Hog shitting on Brutal Doom?

Its now officially a Doom thread on NeoGAF

 

[Dictator93]

haha. Feel the same way partially, I think the gameplay of doom is timeless.

BTW, getting further into Doom 64 makes me appreciate the game more and more. I am loving how compact the levels are. I definitely prefer them to some of the larger doom II levels (man do I dislike Downtown).

I would totally make a doom 64 level pack when the doom 64ex maker releases the map maker/mod maker. That... and adding in reloading animations for the shotguns and perhaps some of the other doom II bestiary (I would kill for these things).

 

[KittenMaster]

Brutal DOOM is fun but it feels like something more akin to Duke 3D in silliness and acts like a parody so I agree that it doesn't hold up as a true representation of what DOOM is like.

Seriously though, I would be interested in hosting a DOOM game on Zandronum sometime. I can pick out a wad from the OP (or G-Fex's list, which is an image that makes my life complete.)

 

[Shadow Hog]

Shadow Hog shitting on Brutal Doom?

Its now officially a Doom thread on NeoGAF

Hey, I didn't start the fire. It was always burning since DoomGAF was turning.

 

[ExitPlanetDust]

Brutal DOOM is fun but it feels like something more akin to Duke 3D in silliness and acts like a parody so I agree that it doesn't hold up as a true representation of what DOOM is like.

Seriously though, I would be interested in hosting a DOOM game on Zandronum sometime. I can pick out a wad from the OP (or G-Fex's list, which is an image that makes my life complete.)

Count me in as soon as my hand heals up.

 

[Jito]

Brutal Doom is the tits, can't get enough of it. And that doesn't lessen how awesome vanilla Doom is either.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I don't care for Brutal Doom. Like, at all.

You care enough to hate on it, at least!

Also, I've been strafing with keys on the right hand, whereas Alt strafe sounds much more useful, so I'd better try that while I have my bad weather day. After Computer Station, it's not gonna be smooth sailing. I'm also more glad than ever before for the existence of chainsaws, since pinkies are most effective when I can't mouselook/WSAD all around them. Impressively confining!

 

[Raptomex]

Probably because of its popularity. Here you have plenty of amazing WAD's, and they're all overshadowed by Brutal Doom. In general gaming forums, Brutal Doom is the only one I hear about. You'd think it was the first Doom mod ever made.

Yes, I agree, but I have seen it suggested on NeoGAF as a replacement more than once; I shouldn't have implied it's a frequent occurrence, though.

It overshadows everything because not only is it popular but because it's really well done. Like it or not you hace to admit exceptional effort was put it into it.

I personally love BD but I try to avoid obsessing over it in posts but I will always recommend it to those looking for mods who are new to Doom or modding Doom. There are other great mods out there that are also amazing and were also incredibly done. The mega man mod, I recently discovered Project MSX (thanks to someone here on GAF), Pirate Doom, Doom Expanded, the hi res texture pack is an amazing effort especially since they weee all handcrafted, Samsara, Freedoom, and probably hundereds more.

But vanilla Doom is timeless and I do play it often. I always keep a source port dedicated to just vanilla Doom.

 

[The Real Abed]

Brutal Doom is the tits, can't get enough of it. And that doesn't lessen how awesome vanilla Doom is either.

Exactly! They're different games for different moods. Play the one you most feel like playing. Brutal Doom is good if you just want to take out some frustration by tearing computerized zombies and demons to shreds and paint the walls red.

I just wish ZDoom had a way to toggle different INI profiles. In order to get Brutal to work in ZDoom I need to put it in the INI which means I have to edit it each time. I guess I could set up a script or something.

 

[GooeyHeat]

Brutal Doom and a bunch of other mods that you can play on the official levels are great, but never, ever, EVER tell somebody to play them before experiencing at least the original 3 Doom episodes and Doom 2 (and Thy Flesh Consumed if they're feeling confident).

Gotta lay down the roots before you start decorating the branches.

Also the melee takedowns in BD are really really dumb. They're the one thing I think just suck. Completely unnecessary.

 

[The Real Abed]

Also the melee takedowns in BD are really really dumb. They're the one thing I think just suck. Completely unnecessary.

Yeah. I don't care for them. They take too much time to pull off and break the immersion when you have enemies around you attacking but nothing is happening. I'd rather just not use them at all.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

my favorite thing about brutal doom is really the animations, the smoother pump of the shotgun, a few more detailed animations for the enemies, etc. Thats why I use Beautiful Doom nowadays, it has a lot of similar animation sprucing up without throwing the whole balance of the game out or superfluous screaming/fatalities/Doomguy meme stuff/'gameplay enhancements'.

 

[Refyref]

When I first started seeing Brutal Doom frequently on Doomseeker, I thought it was just people new replacement for RGA2. That was when the project just began, when it was just a gore mod with some new guns with modern FPS mechanics. When I tried it again a lot later, it turned into something far different, and I didn't find it anything special. Seeing it praised so (and too) highly on GAF is a bit weird.

Anyway, I went through the 2013 Cacowards, since I missed them when they came out. Tried out Pirate Doom, it's pretty cool.
Also, I wonder how far I can get with the Extreme Weapon Pack.

 

[Shadow Hog]

I keep forgetting Pirate Doom lets you play any Doom WAD, not just its custom mapset.

 

[Refyref]

I keep forgetting Pirate Doom lets you play any Doom WAD, not just its custom mapset.

Well, with proper mod loading order, you can play many mods with weapons from other mods. But it's nice that Pirate Doom has an easy way to access that in the menu.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

If you haven't played Doom using Brutal Doom you are just plain missing out.

I play it using GZDoom and high rez textures.

Just awesome fun.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yeah. I don't care for them. They take too much time to pull off and break the immersion when you have enemies around you attacking but nothing is happening. I'd rather just not use them at all.

You can turn them off.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

The Ketchup .p3k should be good enough for those interested in flat-out gore and gibs, without all of the superfluous mechanics added atop (and balance utterly smoked).

 

[Shadow Hog]

The Ketchup .p3k should be good enough for those interested in flat-out gore and gibs, without all of the superfluous mechanics added atop (and balance utterly smoked).

Yeah, Ketchup seemed pretty awesome. Haven't used it much, though.

 

[JasonUresti]

To really appreciate Brutal Doom and how well done it is, someone needs to be familiar with and skilled at classic Doom.

I don't believe it should be used as a replacement or someone's first journey into Doom. Particularly with the original levels and older WADs, the levels are designed with Brutal's gameplay in mind and thus it is often a roll of the dice whether it will work all that well.

 

[mokeyjoe]

Ah, Brutal Doom. The elephant in the room.

OK, original Doom gameplay is timeless and perfectly balanced. Brutal Doom isn't, but when I want to play something with mouselook, headshots, reloading, alt-fire etc I always turn to Brutal Doom over 'modern' shooters. There's enough Doom in there to be awesome, and for whatever reason the gunplay and combat feels more satisfying then any new title I've played in years. Sometimes I just walk around pumping the shotgun because it feels so goood. Everything's just so fast, responsive and slick - and it's the Doom DNA that does that.

It's clearly made by someone with a love for the original. Even the silly fatalities are animated with a great deal of (gory) charm. If Doom 4 were just to pick up some of the ideas and feel from Brutal Doom and tone down some of the silliness I'd be happy enough. Given that no modern sequel would realistically play like the original it's the best interpretation of modern FPS mechanics into a Doom game there is IMO. It doesn't replace original Doom at all but there are ideas in there that suggest to me a proper modern Doom game with the pace and fury of the original combined with modern mechanics would be entirely possible.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that for me Brutal Doom isn't a Doom replacement, it's a COD replacement.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Gee, who knows how the new Doom will turn out. Wolfenstein's been given room enough for reinvention, but a new Doom from modern id is either going to be very tame or a hard sell for anyone. Brutal Doom sits in-between Doom and more recent shooters, so it'll always be there for players more accustomed to COD (but still aware of how the originals play).

Using the original controls is teaching how best to navigate corridors all over again. Containment Center, bitches!

 

[Ragnarok]

Going through Ultimate Doom and Doom II on Steam.


This is the first experience i've had with PC doom, and although i'd rather vertical mouse scrolling was locked, i gotta say i'm having sooooo much fun with it all. Plowing through rooms of baddies is just so satisfying in this game. Thinking back to 1993, this would have SERIOUSLY blown my goddamn mind. I had the game on 3DO but the frame rate was terrible (music was boss though!), so playing the game how it was meant to be played is a real eye opener.

That Cyberdemon fight was still a ridiculously badass reveal 20 years later. The gore. The gunplay. It's amazing. It can be confusing sometimes, with all the backtracking and keys. It's pretty sad sometimes to spend 20 minutes on a map and see the par is like 2 minutes lol. But as long as there are enemies to mow down, it doesn't get tiresome. And when you finally figure something out, it's very satisfying.

It's crazy to me that this is my first time going through these 20 year old games and they've immediately shot up my list of all-time favorite games. Seriously, they're like top 5 games ever for me now. I'd kill to go back to 1993 and experience it in its time. I'm gonna scope out Duke 3D, Shadow Warrior, and Quake next. If it's anywhere near as fun as this, i'm going to be a happy dude.

The whole mod scene seems daunting to me, so i'll probably just stick with the vanilla games. Got Final Doom waiting after i complete the first two games.

Makes me excited for the new Wolfenstein game even moreso! That game looks like a great spiritual successor to these type of games.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I approach 20 minutes a lot, especially in later maps, yet it's never frustrating to move around and remap the whole layout in my head. As you learn the maps over countless replays, par times seem more and more possible to achieve. Few other FPSes even list par times, probably because they aren't as proud of fast movement and the skill required to complete something so swiftly.

 

[vxXJordanXxv]

I love Brutal Doom how anybody can hate it is beyond me.

 

[Lord British]

Ah, Brutal Doom. The elephant in the room.

OK, original Doom gameplay is timeless and perfectly balanced. Brutal Doom isn't, but when I want to play something with mouselook, headshots, reloading, alt-fire etc I always turn to Brutal Doom over 'modern' shooters. There's enough Doom in there to be awesome, and for whatever reason the gunplay and combat feels more satisfying then any new title I've played in years. Sometimes I just walk around pumping the shotgun because it feels so goood. Everything's just so fast, responsive and slick - and it's the Doom DNA that does that.

It's clearly made by someone with a love for the original. Even the silly fatalities are animated with a great deal of (gory) charm. If Doom 4 were just to pick up some of the ideas and feel from Brutal Doom and tone down some of the silliness I'd be happy enough. Given that no modern sequel would realistically play like the original it's the best interpretation of modern FPS mechanics into a Doom game there is IMO. It doesn't replace original Doom at all but there are ideas in there that suggest to me a proper modern Doom game with the pace and fury of the original combined with modern mechanics would be entirely possible.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that for me Brutal Doom isn't a Doom replacement, it's a COD replacement.

Good post!

I love Brutal Doom how anybody can hate it is beyond me.

This is not binary love/hate, people have posted good criticism.

I do love Brutal Doom, I think it's fun, it just makes me wish I was playing Doom. To me, it's simply a novelty.

 

[G-Fex]

I really like beautiful doom and I'll need to try Project MSX.

Go ahead and download slaughtermaps like slaughtermap project 2012 or 2013 then something like russian overkill.

 

[SHL23]

Reelism is the best doom mod

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Reelism is the best doom mod

It's pretty much super-fast, somewhat-predictable Serious Same-like arena shooting, so more of a separate game using a wide array of assets on the GZDoom engine. Not a perfect set of maps or mechanics, but utterly ridiculous and filled to the brim with cool reels and great taste in game music (still need to unpack the music files!).

Nowhere else can you go from Rise of the Triad's dog mode to piloting an armed tank through hordes of Marathon Bobs before fighting a wizard in a monster truck.

 

[Raptomex]

Project MSX is great but I have a few gripes. The enemies are way too fast. I don't mind the Imps rapidly throwing fireballs but when they move they're just racing all around the map at light speed. I don't mind the Doom marine skin for enemies but I wish it was added in instead of replacing every zombie. I think ammo pickups can be more frequent too. But it's still a great mod.

 

[mokeyjoe]

I've been playing "Doom by Eltechs", which is based on vanilla Ubuntu Chocolate Doom according to the description. It's free and the controls work well enough for lower difficulty levels. I'm playing on a Samsung Galaxy Blaze and it runs ok. Not sure about controller or mouse support though.

Just to update, I just redownloaded Doom Touch and it works great for me now. Really good mobile port with fully customisable controls. Doom's a perfect FPS for on the move.

 

[G-Fex]

So doesn't anyone else play Doom 64 EX yet? It's great, I've got to finish it soon.

 

[TUROK]

So doesn't anyone else play Doom 64 EX yet? It's great, I've got to finish it soon.

I finished it a few years ago, and did Doom 64: Absolution before that. Both are awesome, and I didn't even notice the inaccuracies in Absolution until I played EX.

The bonus levels in Absolution are really fun, though. Really worth a playthrough for anyone who's a fan of the Doom 64 aesthetic and cat and mouse type maps.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I've been fucking itchy all day, to the point during playing that any amount of tension, or a quantum of health loss, will turn me hypersensitive. This weather is a drain.

 

[valkillmore]

Havent read through the thread reently. I own an iMac. What are my options for getting back into modding?

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Havent read through the thread reently. I own an iMac. What are my options for getting back into modding?

SLADE appears to be the standard for modding, and it's Windows-only, so VM/Wine would let you brute-force that option.

 

[Lord British]

Threw on Doom 64 EX last night and played through a couple of levels (

Spoiler

I have an original cart I can photograph if mods need evidence? I guess it's technically against the TOS...

).

Doom 64 with mouselook is really, really easy. Like, there is no threat whatsoever easy. Need to restart on a higher difficulty - I think my old save is on Hurt Me Plenty.

 

[TUROK]

Threw on Doom 64 EX last night and played through a couple of levels (

Spoiler

I have an original cart I can photograph if mods need evidence? I guess it's technically against the TOS...

).

Doom 64 with mouselook is really, really easy. Like, there is no threat whatsoever easy. Need to restart on a higher difficulty - I think my old save is on Hurt Me Plenty.

Yeah, the projectiles are much slower, and the enemies seem slower too, although I'm not sure if that's just my imagination.

Absolution was harder in that regard.