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Dota 2 Beta Thread 4: Even Mike Ross Plays [Elder Titan]

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Pureauthor said:
Uh huh.

Global Silence is as powerful as it ever was.
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Global Silence is great but before he was added to captain's mode, there was a lot of discussion about how he was so overpowered because he could dominate his lane so well.

But the problem is fitting him into a line-up. As LGD.int is showing, he's not a great hard carry (especially when the enemy has Nyx). As a hard support he offers nothing outside of that 140 second ultimate.

Just checked his competitive win-rate and it's 38%. Hardly the meta-changer many people were claiming.

That said, Reddit is filled with a lot of idiots.
 
Oh, so the group stages are a lot more complicated than I thought.
Top 1 in the groups advance directly.
Then there's a match between the #2s of the groups, winner goes directly to finals.
Then there's a match between the #3s of the groups, winner faces the the loser of the #2s match. The winner of that match advances to the finals too.

Right now any team in group A can advance directly to the finals, and any team can get directly eliminated.
BeesEight said:
But the problem is fitting him into a line-up. As LGD.int is showing, he's not a great hard carry (especially when the enemy has Nyx). As a hard support he offers nothing outside of that 140 second ultimate.
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How does this prove that he's not a great hard carry? They're not even building him as one.
 
BeesEight said:
Global Silence is great but before he was added to captain's mode, there was a lot of discussion about how he was so overpowered because he could dominate his lane so well.

But the problem is fitting him into a line-up. As LGD.int is showing, he's not a great hard carry (especially when the enemy has Nyx). As a hard support he offers nothing outside of that 140 second ultimate.

Just checked his competitive win-rate and it's 38%. Hardly the meta-changer many people were claiming.

That said, Reddit is filled with a lot of idiots.
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I wonder what you could do to make him more competitive. The first thing that occurs to me is to buff Curse of the Silent because its usefulness drops off ridiculously hard as the game goes on, but its also ridiculously good in the early game, so maybe some kind of dynamic scaling? Shift it from raw damage to %HP?
 
BeesEight said:
Global Silence is great but before he was added to captain's mode, there was a lot of discussion about how he was so overpowered because he could dominate his lane so well.

But the problem is fitting him into a line-up. As LGD.int is showing, he's not a great hard carry (especially when the enemy has Nyx). As a hard support he offers nothing outside of that 140 second ultimate.

Just checked his competitive win-rate and it's 38%. Hardly the meta-changer many people were claiming.

That said, Reddit is filled with a lot of idiots.
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I agree that the problem is fitting him in a line-up, but that doesn't exclude him from being a great hard carry especially if you lane him Mid. I think his biggest problem is that his Ulti doesn't always fit the game being played and can end up useless against a right click hard-carry.
 
Real men literally go rapier
ibprgUlIojYfeJ.gif
 
The Technomancer said:
I wonder what you could do to make him more competitive. The first thing that occurs to me is to buff Curse of the Silent because its usefulness drops off ridiculously hard as the game goes on, but its also ridiculously good in the early game, so maybe some kind of dynamic scaling? Shift it from raw damage to %HP?
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I think he's great the way he is. You know what you're getting early, mid, and late game with him. He has 3 late game viable skills and 4 early/mid game skills. He has both hard and soft counters, and he is the same for many. You just have to fit him in the right lineup.

marrec said:
I agree that the problem is fitting him in a line-up, but that doesn't exclude him from being a great hard carry especially if you lane him Mid. I think his biggest problem is that his Ulti doesn't always fit the game being played and can end up useless against a right click hard-carry.
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In the current meta's mid picks, really Nyx is the only problem. Even then, it's not until he's 6. I think he could be used more often.
 
ksan said:
How does this prove that he's not a great hard carry? They're not even building him as one.
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He was getting uncontested farm in the safe lane and had to spend all his money on survival items. By the time he could afford to get damage, they needed to farm the Gyro for the AoE against the enemy. Had they only thrown damage on him, he'd die so quickly in engagements. Not to mention he farms so slowly compared to the other carries because he has no ability to clear camps and waves.

You'd need a very specific enemy line-up for Silencer to be a great hard carry and even then it's probably better to go with someone else.

Imp the Dimp said:
What happened?
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Super passive, aegis dependent game.

Edit: I do want to add that Silencer is ultimately what allowed LGD.int to stand a chance against Orange's line-up. Global was the only thing preventing them from getting rolled up and spat out by bkb Mag, SF and Enigma.
 
BeesEight said:
LGD.int doing work in showing reddit how overrated new Silencer is.
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Until he gets Refresher!

Was a good game to pick him though with the stacked teamfight ultimates on Orange.

Man what a game there though. It would have been over sooner if Orange wasn't able to snipe that Roshan so fast, as Brax would have gotten the Divine earlier with an Aegis to back it up.
 
Imp the Dimp said:
What happened?
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Basically waiting for 5 roshans, with so strong team fight line ups that no team dared to fight the other. Exciting in an extremely painful way.
BeesEight said:
He was getting uncontested farm in the safe lane and had to spend all his money on survival items. By the time he could afford to get damage, they needed to farm the Gyro for the AoE against the enemy. Had they only thrown damage on him, he'd die so quickly in engagements. Not to mention he farms so slowly compared to the other carries because he has no ability to clear camps and waves.

You'd need a very specific enemy line-up for Silencer to hard carry and even then it's probably better to go with someone else.
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I don't agree, I think they tried to get up utility items to win earlier. I wouldn't say that they were survival items.
 
BeesEight said:
He was getting uncontested farm in the safe lane and had to spend all his money on survival items. By the time he could afford to get damage, they needed to farm the Gyro for the AoE against the enemy. Had they only thrown damage on him, he'd die so quickly in engagements. Not to mention he farms so slowly compared to the other carries because he has no ability to clear camps and waves.

You'd need a very specific enemy line-up for Silencer to be a great hard carry and even then it's probably better to go with someone else.
Click to expand...

Did they offensive trilane the Gyro and put Silencer on safe lane, Clockwerk mid? I only watched the last ~10 minutes.
 
BeesEight said:
He was getting uncontested farm in the safe lane and had to spend all his money on survival items. By the time he could afford to get damage, they needed to farm the Gyro for the AoE against the enemy. Had they only thrown damage on him, he'd die so quickly in engagements. Not to mention he farms so slowly compared to the other carries because he has no ability to clear camps and waves.

You'd need a very specific enemy line-up for Silencer to be a great hard carry and even then it's probably better to go with someone else.
Click to expand...

Then he's not being played as a hard-carry. His damage scales extremely well even with just Int items. You don't always need to build Silencer defensively.
 
close to the edge said:
Did they offensive trilane the Gyro and put Silencer on safe lane, Clockwerk mid? I only watched the last ~10 minutes.
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No Clock was offlane and it was dual/tri (with roaming) mid. They picked off Mushi's SF 2-3 times with the exact same wraparound smoke from the supports. Really odd lanes. Silencer was by himself on the safe lane.
 
close to the edge said:
Did they offensive trilane the Gyro and put Silencer on safe lane, Clockwerk mid? I only watched the last ~10 minutes.
Click to expand...

Silencer safe, Gyro mid, roaming Shadow Demon and Leshrac.

ksan said:
I don't agree, I think they tried to get up utility items to win earlier. I wouldn't say that they were survival items.
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They had utility on Gyro as well. I think their game plan was very much to have Silencer carry at the start and they realized that it just wasn't going to happen.

marrec said:
Then he's not being played as a hard-carry. His damage scales extremely well even with just Int items. You don't always need to build Silencer defensively.
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Well, you could say Gyro wasn't being played a hard carry either as his early items were Aquila and drums. Given their line-up, Silencer needed those items to stay alive against Orange's team or he would just die if he went straight up damage.

Edit: And the fact that Shadow Fiend got shut down so much early game but came back so quickly really demonstrates how powerful flash farming is. Silencer can't do that and when given uncontested farm, the SF was still beating him in gold per minute.
 
BeesEight said:
They had utility on Gyro as well. I think their game plan was very much to have Silencer carry at the start and they realized that it just wasn't going to happen.

Well, you could say Gyro wasn't being played a hard carry either as his early items were Aquila and drums. Given their line-up, Silencer needed those items to stay alive against Orange's team or he would just die if he went straight up damage.
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The reason is that Gyro doesn't need a lot of damage items to be efficient, with the kills on mushi they probably thought that they could take a rax with the first aegis. The problem was that they didn't anticipate the early maxed enfeeble, which obviously didn't get dispelled by the bkb. If there was no enfeeble they would have won every single team fight after the first aegis.
 
I've been terribad my last ten or so games, even when I win. I am getting tired of playing squishy support characters, but in pubs if I don't buy wards pretty much no one will. If only I could play Centaur every game.
 
ksan said:
How does this prove that he's not a great hard carry? They're not even building him as one.
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I think it might have been the plan, but then they realized that with Nyx there and a few deaths later he was better off going utility. Who knows. Would like to see a full hard carry Silencer in a pro game once.
 
Forkball said:
I've been terribad my last ten or so games, even when I win. I am getting tired of playing squishy support characters, but in pubs if I don't buy wards pretty much no one will. If only I could play Centaur every game.
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That's the beauty of it. You CAN play him every game!

/LinkToProfileOf1000+GamesAsSandKing
 
ksan said:
The reason is that Gyro doesn't need a lot of damage items to be efficient, with the kills on mushi they probably thought that they could take a rax with the first aegis. The problem was that they didn't anticipate the early maxed enfeeble, which obviously didn't get dispelled by the bkb. If there was no enfeeble they would have won every single team fight after the first aegis.
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Gyro's damage also isn't blocked by the inevitable BKBs that were coming up on most of the enemy.

Edit: On the plus side, this Bo3 isn't turning into a PotL race.
 
I'm gonna assume that 1437 isn't retarded and that first death was due to lag. There was no reason to change direction like that. Shame that it had so much impact.
 
Just had a fail of the week worthy throw of a sure win by a Tusk, Snowballed our entire team into a chronosphere, torrent, earthshaker combo. I don't now what's worse, being shitty and causing your team to lose or playing a great game and have it all shit away by some idiot teammate.
 
ksan said:
I'm gonna assume that 1437 isn't retarded and that first death was due to lag. There was no reason to change direction like that. Shame that it had so much impact.
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Yeah, I think that's fair given the number of disconnects they've had over these games.

On the plus side, LGD.int is really giving it their all this match.

Edit: oh god
 
dorn. said:
Just had a fail of the week worthy throw of a sure win by a Tusk, Snowballed our entire team into a chronosphere, torrent, earthshaker combo. I don't now what's worse, being shitty and causing your team to lose or playing a great game and have it all shit away by some idiot teammate.
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Sounds hilarious. Can we have a Dotabuff link? And what minute was it roughly in?
 
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