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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]

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snack

Member
Stahsky said:
Understand the basics and work up from there. Positional awareness, denying, last hitting, understanding hero roles, etc etc.


Bot matches are good for learning the heroes and items too.
Any good sites that you can recommend for understanding the basics? Other than PlayDota.com that is. :p
 

Stahsky

A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
Hmm, I'm not sure. This seems like the sort of game where just getting into it and playing it would be the only viable way to truly understand it. You can look up items and heroes elsewhere, sure. Maybe some youtube videos out there that can go over the concepts?
 

snack

Member
Stahsky said:
Hmm, I'm not sure. This seems like the sort of game where just getting into it and playing it would be the only viable way to truly understand it. You can look up items and heroes elsewhere, sure. Maybe some youtube videos out there that can go over the concepts?
Alright. Sounds good, thanks!
 

Hylian7

Member
Stahsky said:
Understand the basics and work up from there. Positional awareness, denying, last hitting, understanding hero roles, etc etc.


Bot matches are good for learning the heroes and items too.
Except that the bots are insane towerdiving motherfuckers. I tried an all-bot match once and right off the bat, an enemy Tidehunter chased me ALL THE FUCKING WAY TO MY BACK TOWER and killed me! I was playing Lion, and it was my first time playing him. I would try practice matches with human players to actually get a feel for the game.

I really like that the bots actually chat though.
 

snack

Member
kneePat said:
The game has a great mode for spectating live games, just hop on and join some of the more 'popular' games, in the Watch tab.
Yeah, I saw that when roaming around the main menu. They also had a "Learn" tab but it's empty. :(
 

Stahsky

A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
Hylian7 said:
Except that the bots are insane towerdiving motherfuckers. I tried an all-bot match once and right off the bat, an enemy Tidehunter chased me ALL THE FUCKING WAY TO MY BACK TOWER and killed me! I was playing Lion, and it was my first time playing him. I would try practice matches with human players to actually get a feel for the game.

I really like that the bots actually chat though.


Yeah, I'm not sure what happened with the last patch, but the bots went crazy. They weren't like that before. But still, they at least train you not to push a lane solo with two enemies on it and no sights on other bots.
 
Drkirby said:
Oh, you mean how many heroes often have 1 or 2 passive abilities? Personally, I think more people have skill shots in Dota 2, but I am not going to calculate the ratio of skill shots to the rest of skills in both games.
It's not even close. I'll be happy to calculate for you if you want.

It's also easy to understand why. The War3 engine defaults to 'cast spell by left clicking on guy'. That's the easiest to code and the vast majority of spells are targeted this way. Skillshots had to be specially coded in (like Pudge's hook, or Earthshakers Fissure). That's why they were considered so unique and special in DotA, and also why they acted kinda wonky (like the way Pudge's hook would path strangely).

Riot on the other hand loves skillshots and their engine is made for it from the start. There are heroes with all skillshots (like Lux), but almost every hero has at least one.

And yes, there's a lot of stupid legacy stuff in DotA like Skeleton King's one-button wonder or a large number of heroes with only 2 actives. A few have been reworked but there's a lot of them left. The difference in complexity and design with the newer heroes from some of the older ones is really stark, who have been around since 2005 or earlier.

Cheeto said:
I don't think people give denying enough credit... It adds a lot of complexity to the laning phase and allows skilled players to control a lane over lesser-skilled players.
I don't think people are denying that denying adds complexity. That's not usually the problem people have with it.
 

Sibylus

Banned
snack said:
Any good sites that you can recommend for understanding the basics? Other than PlayDota.com that is. :p
Check out joindota for their tourney coverage, you can learn a lot about effective play just by watching the pros go about their work.
 

Madouu

Member
Well I just played my three first games tonight with my friends from NaE (hongaf will recognize :p) it was pretty cool, game feels a bit slower than expected, and it clearly still needs improvement (anyone knows if there is a way to have the map in the right side?) but overall we had our fun. Also 3 wins out of 3 helps!

Anyone knows how does the matchmaking system work? sorry if it has already been asked, I haven't been following dota 2 news at all, I've just had the time to barely play a few hon games lately ...
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?


Bah, 20 minutes before the end I was sure we'll win.
The good thing is that my ping on US East is around 208, I guess that West will be even better, so I can play with Gaffers after all!
 

rac

Banned
Drkirby said:
Me, Nob, Togglesworlh, Rac, and some 5th guy can take you!!
You think us 5 can take on a full 5 man from hongaf? We already lost.

Also wtf why am I not on a team? I was in the IHL guys, remember me? At least put me as a replacement for tomat so I can complain and not play games.
 

Swag

Member
Madouu said:
Well I just played my three first games tonight with my friends from NaE (hongaf will recognize :p) it was pretty cool, game feels a bit slower than expected, and it clearly still needs improvement (anyone knows if there is a way to have the map in the right side?) but overall we had our fun. Also 3 wins out of 3 helps!

Anyone knows how does the matchmaking system work? sorry if it has already been asked, I haven't been following dota 2 news at all, I've just had the time to barely play a few hon games lately ...
You can't have right side Minimap, and as for Matchmaking there is probably an internal rating it uses between the 3 skill tiers to place people, but if there aren't enough people I think it just throws you with whoever.
 

Hylian7

Member
Madouu said:
Well I just played my three first games tonight with my friends from NaE (hongaf will recognize :p) it was pretty cool, game feels a bit slower than expected, and it clearly still needs improvement (anyone knows if there is a way to have the map in the right side?) but overall we had our fun. Also 3 wins out of 3 helps!

Anyone knows how does the matchmaking system work? sorry if it has already been asked, I haven't been following dota 2 news at all, I've just had the time to barely play a few hon games lately ...
I now understand what everyone was talking about with the "lag".

Basically, it's the amount of time when your hero is standing still between you clicking and your hero starting moving to where you clicked. If your hero is already moving and you change destination, it seems just fine, it's only taking off from a dead stop where the problem area is. Still, I didn't even notice this until someone else pointed it out to me.
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?

Forgot how much fun I had with my very first Dota character - Riki. Guess I'll start with learning how to not have one of the lowest levels in both teams before getting to know other heroes.
 
I'm hoping they add a concede option at some point in the future. Don't really like having to wait till the enemy team gets bored farming my team in the fountain to end the game.
 

FuKuy

Member
PoorFate said:
I'm hoping they add a concede option at some point in the future. Don't really like having to wait till the enemy team gets bored farming my team in the fountain to end the game.


Indeed.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Stahsky said:
Hmm, I'm not sure. This seems like the sort of game where just getting into it and playing it would be the only viable way to truly understand it. You can look up items and heroes elsewhere, sure. Maybe some youtube videos out there that can go over the concepts?
I think the best thing is to be in voice chat with a friend who also knows the game. It helps ease you into the game.

rac said:
You think us 5 can take on a full 5 man from hongaf? We already lost.

Also wtf why am I not on a team? I was in the IHL guys, remember me? At least put me as a replacement for tomat so I can complain and not play games.
Nope, I called dibs first. And we can win! Maybe! Possibly! Likely not, but still!


Also, Tidehunter bot is a beast early game.
 

Card Boy

Banned
PoorFate said:
I'm hoping they add a concede option at some point in the future. Don't really like having to wait till the enemy team gets bored farming my team in the fountain to end the game.

But having a concede button, it would be promoting a defeatist attitute!

/s
 

Swag

Member
PoorFate said:
I'm hoping they add a concede option at some point in the future. Don't really like having to wait till the enemy team gets bored farming my team in the fountain to end the game.
I specced that game, tough break.
Drkirby said:
Nope, I called dibs first. And we can win! Maybe! Possibly! Likely not, but still!
No Chance.
 

Valygar

Member
Uooo, I have the game now thanks to a friend. I'm going to play a lot with bots, till I know most heroes, and then possibly try to join some inhouse. If I find any good guide for beginners (I'll also look for that), I'll give a link.

I'm trying to create a practice game with my friend, but I don't see any way to invite him to the lobby. How can we do this?

Ah ok, I've restarted the game, and now I can see games in the practice tab. I will have to report this bug!

PD: It was not a bug, didnt know the password thing also filtered games. Weird, but useful.
 
Sebulon3k said:
I specced that game, tough break.


Yeah, our Lion had phase boots at the end of the game. I wasn't doing much better though. I also messed up Enigma's ult a few times and finally realized at the end that I should use his E before R.

Even though I've played HoN a lot I still feel confused, even on what to buy at start even though I had that down pretty well in HoN.
 

MrKnives

Member
Anyone else having the problem of pressing old hotkeys? Played Lion yesterday and died like twice early on because I kept pressing E and D instead of Q and W >_>

I know you can change them but I would like to go with this QWER. I guess I just need to get used to it.
 

Swag

Member
PoorFate said:
Yeah, our Lion had phase boots at the end of the game. I wasn't doing much better though. I also messed up Enigma's ult a few times and finally realized at the end that I should use his E before R.
Pulling this off can be quite difficult because it gives the enemy time to react, usually I just do the R and then E after cause at least you can get 1 tick of the E, at least until I get BKB.
MrKnives said:
Anyone else having the problem of pressing old hotkeys?
Nah QWER is too easy, but this is me coming from HoN.
Teknopathetic said:
The only way hongaf would lose to that 5 is if they let Anbokr mid or play Spectre.
Also if you let Meteorain play Drow Ranger or Sanjay play Windrunner.
 

ksan

Member
MrKnives said:
Anyone else having the problem of pressing old hotkeys? Played Lion yesterday and died like twice early on because I kept pressing E and D instead of Q and W >_>

I know you can change them but I would like to go with this QWER. I guess I just need to get used to it.
I absolutely love the fact that they kept the legacy hot keys as an option, but I can't see why you would want to play with them if you haven't played with them before :p
 

Juravsky

Member
I played mi first game today and what a mess xD

I don't know what happened but I can't see the life bars of neither friend nor enemies so it's been really confusing. I'll have to solve this before playing any more.
 
Whose the best STR hero for beginners? Seems like every team I am on as a distinct lack of of STR heroes as everyone goes agl or int. I tried Axe but not sure if he is the best.
 

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
Skeleton King - literally one active ability
Tidehunter - Fairly beefy, his ultimate is braindead easy to use and can easily change the tide (hehe) of team fights
Omniknight - Strong healer, can grant magic immunity (kinda have to know mana management, though)
 

mr. puppy

Banned
H.Cornerstone said:
Whose the best STR hero for beginners? Seems like every team I am on as a distinct lack of of STR heroes as everyone goes agl or int. I tried Axe but not sure if he is the best.


just choose skeleton king and play conservatively, it'll teach you the rest of the game. remember that you have your stun spell, but it costs a ton of mana, so set it up properly.
 

JudgeN

Member
Hmm can anyone suggest some basic items for Lina/Zeus? Other then bottle, Aghanim's Scepter, and phase/arcane boots. I have no idea what to buy assuming I make enough money to buy that stuff.

Getting better at the game but I need to figure out how to make more money, I feel like I waste alot of time traveling to other lanes to gank and not always getting the kills.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Why did no one tell me about Force Staff sooner? Its like the best item ever IMO. Make your enemy suddenly out of position, get a boost in speed, get away, save an ally, get an ally into position, cut down trees, what isn't to like! It is also built in parts, so while it costs 50 more gold then the blink dagger, it is much easier to obtain if you are doing badly. I just love the utility.

Also, it doesn't have the 3 second damage stipulation, and Pudge can use it too.
 

Swag

Member
JudgeN said:
Hmm can anyone suggest some basic items for Lina/Zeus? Other then bottle, Aghanim's Scepter, and phase/arcane boots. I have no idea what to buy assuming I make enough money to buy that stuff.
Refer to the OP?
Drkirby said:
Also, it doesn't have the 3 second damage stipulation, and Pudge can use it too.
Blink Dagger doesn't really serve the same purpose as a Force Staff, Blink Dagger is almost always used as an initiation tool, Force Staff has far more utility, for example all the reasons you mentioned, you can't really use a force staff to initiate because you'll get disabled.

Also Kagete, you were talking about how you can't upgrade chicken from anywhere but you can, just buy the recipe and it'll automatically fly it, even if its not at base.
 

MrKnives

Member
Archie said:
Skeleton King - literally one active ability
Tidehunter - Fairly beefy, his ultimate is braindead easy to use and can easily change the tide (hehe) of team fights
Omniknight - Strong healer, can grant magic immunity (kinda have to know mana management, though)

With Tidehunter your team kinda expects you to start the fights though. Blinking in and out. Maybe not a super hard hero to play but I wouldn't put him into the same category of easy as Skeleton King.
 

Spookie

Member
Archie said:
Tidehunter - Fairly beefy, his ultimate is braindead easy to use and can easily change the tide (hehe) of team fights

But you need a blink to make the most of him which is not exactly the easiest item to farm as a newbie.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Sebulon3k said:
Blink Dagger doesn't really serve the same purpose as a Force Staff, Blink Dagger is almost always used as an initiation tool, Force Staff has far more utility, for example all the reasons you mentioned, you can't really use a force staff to initiate because you'll get disabled.

Well, not any more, it used to be "Kelen's Dagger of Escape"... That was 3 1/2 years ago.
 

Uchip

Banned
Drkirby said:
Well, not any more, it used to be "Kelen's Dagger of Escape"... That was 3 1/2 years ago.

you also used to be able to blink while taking damage...
oh, its in the name? lol
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
But yeah, Force Staff is more or less LoL's Flash (In terms of Range, blink is roughly 3 times the distance of LoL's flash), except over a .3 second period. I don't even know if you can stop someone mid push. It does not play well with lag at all though, when playing with bots while having a torrent going, they would fly in random directions instead of where I expected them. At first I thought I may just have the wrong idea of what it meant by 'Player Direction', but it was just the lag making it so I didn't see the bot turn around for a second, when the server received the command for the push.
 

Swag

Member
Drkirby said:
Well, not any more, it used to be "Kelen's Dagger of Escape"... That was 3 1/2 years ago.
I don't understand what your trying to say with this, that Kelen's was originally meant as a tool for escaping or...?
 

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
So who do you think will be added to the pool tonight? My mind says Bane, but my heart says Ogre Magi.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I had a dream last night.

I dreamed of ripping through heroes with Fuzzy Wuzzy.

Make it happen, Icefrog.
 

Swag

Member
Archie said:
So who do you think will be added to the pool tonight? My mind says Bane, but my heart says Ogre Magi.
Bane, N'aix, life steal theme. I'd like to see Alchemist though.
 
rac said:
You think us 5 can take on a full 5 man from hongaf? We already lost.

Also wtf why am I not on a team? I was in the IHL guys, remember me? At least put me as a replacement for tomat so I can complain and not play games.
You're right, we should dump you and get someone who's actually good.
 
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