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Dota 2 |OT3| #BetterThenEllenPudge

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H

Hylian7

Member
http://dotabuff.com/matches/558939672

*wipes sweat*

We knew our team basically had an expiration timer around the 25 minute mark. With Storm Spirit (me) being our hardest carry, we figured that if it went past 25 minutes we were screwed. Well somehow, we made it. At 35 minutes, we all were surprised we hadn't expired 10 minutes ago.

I ended up being safelane, and had bad farm after a while, took me a long time to get the Orchid up. Things started picking up though. Pudge was getting kills. Centaur had a huge amount of farm.

Things started getting weird. We saw a BKB on Lifestealer, and a Shadow Blade on Tinker. The latter was really shocking, but we got Dust for him, and eventually a gem. Not sure I understand the item choices there, but it was okay with us.

We got pickoffs, they would get pickoffs. Then there were some pickoffs that we would turn into our own pickoffs. One in particular I remembered was Lina getting jumped on by Slark around 40 minutes. I zipped all the way across the jungle to Orchid and disable the Slark, and we killed him. Lina was only left with 100 or so HP.

They surprisingly didn't take Rosh. Around 40 minutes we were wondering "Is this really happening? How are we not getting our rax pushed in right now?" Tinker was all over the place as usual. We did Rosh twice, first time we got it, I had Aegis, but the resulting fight didn't end so well. We did it again, this time just going for it, and it allowed us to get a melee rax. Then we were able to take a fight bottom lane and just won the game off of that rax.

This is the kind of game I want to see more often. This is Dota.

(Also seriously what was the deal with Shadow Blade Tinker and BKB Lifestealer? I'm curious about those two.)
 
A

Aaron

Member
Hylian7 said:
(Also seriously what was the deal with Shadow Blade Tinker and BKB Lifestealer? I'm curious about those two.)
Click to expand...
Your team had enough stun and disable for a BKB to make sense, depending on what other items he had. Shadow Blade was probably because the Tinker was used to other split pushing heroes.
 
I

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Sounds like he should have left months ago and tried to form his own team, sitting around and hoping things fall apart so you can pick up the pieces is a terrible way to do things.
 
Nirvana

Nirvana

Member
Well, we've got IRL drama with fluff and E-drama with people nobody cares about on the dota 2 subreddit. What a day to be alive
 
M

Marauder Shields

Member
Read Fluff's post. From my impression it seems that not being the leader really bothers him as well as the lack of understanding and connection that he has with his current team-mates. Not sure how that can be remedied tbh. Might be best, for all parties, for Fluff to just go his own way and found his own team with people that he feels comfortable with and will give him the confidence to be a leader again. His attitude can't be very helpful for TC or Wayto (whoever does the drafting).
 
D

Demoli

Member
The Technomancer said:
I can't speak for anyone else but I hate fighting PL because he punishes mistakes more then just about any other carry in the game. Yes, he can be beaten, of course, but there's no leeway, no room for error, because every inch you give him he turns into a mile and you never get that mile back
Click to expand...

If anything, PL is the most forgiving carry because he comes online at such a later stage in the game that you have ample space and opportunity to both gank him and push all of his towers while his team will be 4v5'ing, and even when he comes online with manta heart diffusal he still will be weaker than most carries at that stage in the game.

If you think he is bad, wait until you see a good/decent Naga/Terrorblade/Morph player, which can do everything PL can but have a way better laning stage, mid game and farming potential aswell as being able to have a significant inpact in midgame fights along with better escape mechanisms (exept terrorblade, he just kills you if you gank him with less than 3 people). Not to mention TB and Naga both are way more powerful than PL at a later stage in the game due to increadibly pwoerfull illusions as opposed to the measly 20% PL illusions. And Morph just makes his own army out of your illusion.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Here, have a picture of a courier coming soon
6DVQWcl.png

"Zombie Hopper"


Added last night apparently.
 
shira

shira

Member
Ikuu said:
Sounds like he should have left months ago and tried to form his own team, sitting around and hoping things fall apart so you can pick up the pieces is a terrible way to do things.
Click to expand...
I bet the higher the MMR the more severe mental health problems you can hide. If you have won or can produce results nobody really cares how fucked up you are because you can play high level

Or you can do an alliance BFF irl friends kick EE for the win.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Drkirby said:
Butterfly Blades are also still unmarketable. It should have kicked in, but maybe we need to wait anther week.
Click to expand...

I wonder what the original plan was for these drop only items. They'd want to pay these people somehow?

Then again, this isn't even the first time this has happened. The Elder Shield guy doesn't even have a self made, meaning there's no chance he's seen any money his item has made on the market :/


I'd thought they'd make a pack of the 4 and sell them as a bundle, but that doesn't seem likely at this point.
- Skittering Lotus
- Ember Spirit's Hat *
- Fan of the Silence
- Beautiful Haunting

* Valve made, may not really count.
 
manfestival

manfestival

Member
balladofwindfishes said:
I wonder what the original plan was for these drop only items. They'd want to pay these people somehow?

Then again, this isn't even the first time this has happened. The Elder Shield guy doesn't even have a self made, meaning there's no chance he's seen any money his item has made on the market :/


I'd thought they'd make a pack of the 4 and sell them as a bundle, but that doesn't seem likely at this point.
- Skittering Lotus
- Ember Spirit's Hat *
- Fan of the Silence
- Beautiful Haunting

* Valve made, may not really count.
Click to expand...
this makes me wonder why ember has 3 hats and 1 set. 2 of those hats are freaking LEGENDARY. WHAT
 
Renoir

Renoir

Member
Acinixys said:
Guys

Hey guys

Everytime you get stacked with Russians/Brazilians/Peruvians and you lose horribly and feel like shit do 20 push ups and 20 sit ups

Youll be fit as fuck in 1 month
Click to expand...

you're on the right path.

I do push ups every time i get a teammate d/c
after 2.5 week... i can do 41 push in a min.
 
C

Calidor

Member
Acinixys said:
Guys

Hey guys

Everytime you get stacked with Russians/Brazilians/Peruvians and you lose horribly and feel like shit do 20 push ups and 20 sit ups

Youll be fit as fuck in 1 month
Click to expand...

That's actually a really good idea. I'm in need of some exercise and this will be a good motivation

...


jajajaja!
 
I

inkls

Member
Demoli said:
If anything, PL is the most forgiving carry because he comes online at such a later stage in the game that you have ample space and opportunity to both gank him and push all of his towers while his team will be 4v5'ing, and even when he comes online with manta heart diffusal he still will be weaker than most carries at that stage in the game.

If you think he is bad, wait until you see a good/decent Naga/Terrorblade/Morph player, which can do everything PL can but have a way better laning stage, mid game and farming potential aswell as being able to have a significant inpact in midgame fights along with better escape mechanisms (exept terrorblade, he just kills you if you gank him with less than 3 people). Not to mention TB and Naga both are way more powerful than PL at a later stage in the game due to increadibly pwoerfull illusions as opposed to the measly 20% PL illusions. And Morph just makes his own army out of your illusion.
Click to expand...

Good points. Also, no mention of spectre or void? They both come online before PL. Spectre can farm anywhere on the map and be instantly in a teamfight as soon as it starts.

I think people should realize that if PL is farming non-stop this also means you'll always be in a 5v4 advantage and that you should take advantage of it by pushing towers, doing teamfights or ganking PL in his jungle (not in lanes, any smart PL will only send his illusions to push if the other team is unaccounted for. So many ults used and bkb popped on an illusion only push).

PL will usually push the safe lane because its the lane with the jungle so he can farm up his illusions and then send them to push the wave, so you can just push that lane specifically (its problematic if he has Boots of travel, but that should mean he should be pretty squishy).

Regarding PL in general, is it a good idea to build vanguard on him? I feel its generally more useful compared to his other regen items like soul ring and Vlad's (everything is situational of course, just saying, in general). It gives alot more regen and the +250 hp makes him and his illusions tankier, they get no bonus from soul ring. You also don't have to wait 13 seconds when low compared to tranquills. How good is vanguard in general? It seems like its not picked very much, but it seems useful just for the hp regen if you're a carry and are not going for any lifesteal and/or regen early like battlefury.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Vanguard is bad on him and I don't recommend Vlad's either because illusions can tank the jungle creeps.

PL is kinda weak at the moment because Naga does what he does, but better. Also, any carry with a Battle Fury can get rid of his illusions while taking measly 20% dmg of each illusion which is not that big a deal. Terrorblade and Naga have a more fierce end game. Bad players will struggle with Lancer's invis which is why he barely ever dies in low tier pubs and managed to farm up way too much.
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
khanh isnt a gaffer kirby wtf kind of crack r u smoking.

Also PLs cool cuz at the end of every win you can all chat and say you gave em the cat dick

also vlads owns on PL
 
I

inkls

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
Vanguard is bad on him and I don't recommend Vlad's either because illusions can tank the jungle creeps.

PL is kinda weak at the moment because Naga does what he does, but better. Also, any carry with a Battle Fury can get rid of his illusions while taking measly 20% dmg of each illusion which is not that big a deal. Terrorblade and Naga have a more fierce end game. Bad players will struggle with Lancer's invis which is why he barely ever dies in low tier pubs and managed to farm up way too much.
Click to expand...

Why exactly is vanguard bad on him? Not enough bang for its bucks? You always need to be max hp to push at maximum efficiency so I though the +6 hp would be very helpful to stay at max hp, not to mention the extra hp makes you and your illusions tankier (to repeat my previous post).


Not big of a deal? Real PL (100% dmg) + Doppelwalk PL (+20%) + 8 illusions (+160%) + 2 illusions from Manta (+66%) is 346% or 326% (if you discount the doppelwalk copy) damage. Of course a single illusion isn't very scary, that applies for every illusion hero. PL illusion's aren't on demand also (unless you count his lance, doppelwalk and manta) which is good in a sustained fight compared to the illusions of TB and Naga which means he can keep his damage output for a longer period compared to those two.

Compare dmg:

Total PL illusion dmg (manta): 226%
Total Naga illusion dmg (manta): 201%
Total Terrorblade illusion dmg (manta): 176%

And apart from Manta he can keep going making more. Not counting damage added by diffusal and radiance. Not to mention his agility gain.

Naga is probably picked more competitively because her illusions are on demand (less dependent on rng), she has survival tools like the debuff purge her mirror image gives, her net and her ult.

And yeah, pubs usually get stomped because they forget what dust is. Had a game with a bloodseeker on the other team, enemy team never noticed the -25% hp invis pl running away during teamfights.

Not a pro or high mmr, so I can be wrong, just want some feedback
 
A

Artanisix

Member
vlads on pl is completely ownage, i'd even go to say that it should be one of the first items you should pick up unless you're getting absolute freefarm uncontested
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
Demoli said:
If anything, PL is the most forgiving carry because he comes online at such a later stage in the game that you have ample space and opportunity to both gank him and push all of his towers while his team will be 4v5'ing, and even when he comes online with manta heart diffusal he still will be weaker than most carries at that stage in the game.

If you think he is bad, wait until you see a good/decent Naga/Terrorblade/Morph player, which can do everything PL can but have a way better laning stage, mid game and farming potential aswell as being able to have a significant inpact in midgame fights along with better escape mechanisms (exept terrorblade, he just kills you if you gank him with less than 3 people). Not to mention TB and Naga both are way more powerful than PL at a later stage in the game due to increadibly pwoerfull illusions as opposed to the measly 20% PL illusions. And Morph just makes his own army out of your illusion.
Click to expand...

There is no way a late game Naga will ever be stronger than a late game PL. Absolutely no way.
 
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